What do you think are the most powerful or broken classes in Pathfinder? explain why you think so.
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1.) Why is this in Conversions?
2.) Fighter. It's been proven to me that Fighter can do anything. All you need is the right traits, a good amount of Feats and ranks in UMD and you can fight better than any martial and cast spells better than a caster.
1.) Why is this in Conversions?
2.) Fighter. It's been proven to me that Fighter can do anything. All you need is the right traits, a good amount of Feats and ranks in UMD and you can fight better than any martial and cast spells better than a caster.
i find this post ironic
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1.) Why is this in Conversions?
2.) Fighter. It's been proven to me that Fighter can do anything. All you need is the right traits, a good amount of Feats and ranks in UMD and you can fight better than any martial and cast spells better than a caster.
Here we go . . .
*Throws back in chair, puts on sunglasses, and waits for the massive flamewar to begin again.*| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe he thought it was Conversations.
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1.) Why is this in Conversions?
2.) Fighter. It's been proven to me that Fighter can do anything. All you need is the right traits, a good amount of Feats and ranks in UMD and you can fight better than any martial and cast spells better than a caster.
Here we go . . .
*Throws back in chair, puts on sunglasses, and waits for the massive flamewar to begin again.*
I'm turning on the windshield wipers.
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Oh, this thread can only end well, right?
it's in conversions because if I put it in the right section, either no one pays attention to it, or it gets swallowed up by all the other threads and ends up three pages away.
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it's in conversions because if I put it in the right section, either no one pays attention to it, or it gets swallowed up by all the other threads and ends up three pages away.
So basically you wanted as many people as possible to be drawn into the flamebait.
Gotcha.
No, I wanted to know what people thought was the most broken class, in their opinion.
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A class is only as OP as the GM lets it be.
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playing min/max any class can break, just like any mod, spell, rule can break
edit:: also, dot
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I hear the 'troll' racial class is ridiculously broken. The bonus to intimidate when coupled with the Antagonize feat means they can easily turn ordinary, peaceful individuals into frothing beserkers out for blood. I usually tend to ban trolls in my own games, but sometimes someone will take levels in the racial class and then join your game on the sly. It's really annoying.
Wizard > Druid > Cleric > Sorcerer = Oracle > Summoner > Magus = Bard > Everyone else
EDIT for Rynjin
Wizard > Druid > Cleric > Sorcerer = Oracle > Summoner > Magus = Bard > Everyone else > Fighter
I'm sad that you put the Alchemist in the ''Everyone else'' category. :(
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Wizard > Druid > Cleric > Sorcerer = Oracle > Summoner > Magus = Bard > Everyone else
EDIT for Rynjin
Wizard > Druid > Cleric > Sorcerer = Oracle > Summoner > Magus = Bard > Everyone else > Fighter
You silly goose, you got the arrows backwards.
Understandable since they're right next to each other on the keyboard, but it's too bad it's too late to correct all those to <'s.
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1.) Why is this in Conversions?
2.) Fighter. It's been proven to me that Fighter can do anything. All you need is the right traits, a good amount of Feats and ranks in UMD and you can fight better than any martial and cast spells better than a caster.
WRONG, RYNJIN!
You forgot about them OP Commoners. :)
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i have to say i mostly agree with Kyrt.
though here is my list. not counting 3rd party or NPC classes. i count Sohei and Zen Archer as alternate classes for this purpose. i also count pistolero as higher than gunslinger and synthesist lower than summoner.
Wizard>Druid=Cleric>Witch>Sorcerer=Oracle>Summoner>Synthesis t>Magus>Bard>Alchemist=Inquisitor>Paladin>Ranger>Barbaria n>Antipaladin=Samurai>Cavalier>Sohei=Zen-Archer>Pistolero>Gu nslinger>Fighter=Ninja>Rogue=Monk
while the sorcerer has better i win buttons, the oracle is a better beatstick.
in fact, the battle mystery oracle is the new cleric zilla.
What do you think are the most powerful or broken classes in Pathfinder? explain why you think so.
Define 'powerful' - is it flexibility, damage dealt, ability to 'I win' an encounter in one round, or what?
wizards are so powerfull lolz :-) i think ill play one next time !!
its hard to say if you ofcourse dont give anny context OP on what?
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I honestly dont think any classes are overpowered if you take the core rules as your baseline. The only one i find to be an issue isnt a matter of its total power, but just how flexible it is to apply and thats the summoner. Which does not get more stuff (power) then a druid, but it DOES have free reign on how it applies that stuff for the most part, which only the most heavily optimized druid could match.
So long as you have reasonable and rational players building well rounded characters (this includes people who optimize but dont go overboard), there arent any overpowered classes. If you play with people who look to eek out every little number they can out of a class, they can all be overpowered to one degree or another. Really its just a matter of the party being in line with eachother, everything else from there is adjusting a few monster stats at most, or adding a few monsters to encounters.
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Rogues get more skills than anyone else and get like a million sneaking dice too, they probably kill things better even than fighters, crazy broken.
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The most powerful low level character I have seen recently was a Oracle of law (double cursed) / Synthethist. AC 30+ at second level (with spells running), rerolls on enermies attacks, magical damage, lots of attacks, cures, etc. A monster character that overshadowed the rest of the party.
30+ AC at level 2 ain't doable. Shield doesn't stack with Shielded Meld, and the Synthesist (built optimally) will have 10 + 4 (Mage Armor) + 2 (Shielded Meld) + 1-3 (Dexterity from base form) + 2 (if someone's casting Barkskin on you or you have wands/scrolls of it) + 2-4 (Eidolon natural armor) +2 (Natural armor evolution) = 23-27 AC. A point more if you get the Dexterity ability increase, but then you've spent all of your Evolution pool...
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I wouldn't necessarily call it a broken class, but a mid to high level paladin archer will give any GM fits in a standard heroic campaign. There's a reason Smite Evil is called "slay x bad guys per day".
Trust me on this. I run a game with a (now) 17th level paladin archer.
And before the "wind wall can stop that" crowd appears, he just delays for a few initiative ticks until one of the party wizards or the cleric can dispel the wind wall. It is a team game, after all. Then the big bad evil guy gets instantly obliterated.
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Depends... on... the... situation..
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It also depends on the level. Wizards aren't OP at level 1-2. ;)
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Base (10) + 4 (Mage Armour) + 4 (Shield) + 1 (Dodge) + 5 (CHR from Oracle of Law) + 4 Natural (Eidolon) + 2 Def (Shield of Faith) = AC 30
and that without Expertise and partial defence and other evolutions
Ah, so you took the very meh Lore Mystery (for a Fighty-type character at least) and wasted a feat on Dodge. Fair enough.
Assuming the OP isn’t trolling.
- Zen archer and archers in general
- Any build that dips into Master of Many Styles
- Synthesist summoner
- Certain gunslinger builds at levels 7+
There are lots of specialized builds at low levels that are OP, that quickly fizzle out at level 7+.
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Magic is OP.
Also, Witch is the best. I get looks from the GMs and even a death threat on my witch for her debuffs... AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN DO ANY DAMAGE!!
I'm serious, except for vomiting swarms and summons, my witch intentionally tries not to do damage, and I believe I am hated more than anyone else at the table.
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It's more that he's being a jerk, Berdache. A Synthesist or an Oracle alone would be stronger than the character he's built (why are things even attacking the fellow with 30+ AC and no ability to do real damage?) and he's obviously going out of his way to try and be better at everyone else than everything. Which won't last for long, as he'll be spreading himself way too thin, while his Eidolon will suffer for multiclassing.
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I personally would say that if you build your eidolon right, than summoner. I don't know personally, but I have heard my friends winging about the Ninja
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No one class is more broken than others, but some classes take substantially less effort to break. Summoner takes the cake on that one; being essentially able to retrain your eidolon every time you level is very forgiving for experimenting with various approaches, and the eidolon's powerful options are very powerful. I recently played a PFS game as with my Druid 9/Stalwart Defender 1. In allosaurus form (with 30 Strength) and with my spinosaurus AC, I was dealing about 3/4 of the 9th level Eidolon's damage. And then the Summoner still had his own set of actions.
No one class is more broken than others, but some classes take substantially less effort to break. Summoner takes the cake on that one; being essentially able to retrain your eidolon every time you level is very forgiving for experimenting with various approaches, and the eidolon's powerful options are very powerful. I recently played a PFS game as with my Druid 9/Stalwart Defender 1. In allosaurus form (with 30 Strength) and with my spinosaurus AC, I was dealing about 3/4 of the 9th level Eidolon's damage. And then the Summoner still had his own set of actions.
eidolon deals more damage?
sounds like an improperly built eidolon to me.
but even then, the druid is a still full caster while the summoner is only a partial caster. try appreciating the goodies on your spell list the summoner can't get as easily.
such as Heal, the cure wounds line, or even the various forms of condition removal the summoner can't perform.
hell, you have a lot more spell slots than the guy with the beefy and laughably vulnerable damage dealing outsider.
Druids. Doesn't need a spellbook. Has fireseeds as spells, and wild shape. Combo for insane damage. Can be tanky, can do melee damage (plus smite evil), can be sneaky. Can place trap, modify land, has access to 9th level spells. Can do almost all thing in some case better than classes intended to be specialist of that. None can compare. Period.
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The "tier system" for Pathfinder.
Short form: Prepared full casters can break the game in a million ways. Spontaneous full casters can break the game in less ways. Non-casters can't break the game nearly as much.
Shorter form: Casters rule, mundanes drool.
I think the tier list that guy put up is a bit off. I think the tier 3 level for PF is actually broader. I'd move Paladins, Rangers, and Barbarians up to tier 3. Everything else is basically fine.
EDIT: Specifically because I don't find any of those to be one trick ponies. They have enough tricks and features that they can contribute in most any facet of the game and have useful spells and options. IMHO, they are closer to the Tome of Battle classes which are tier 3 in 3.5. Barbarians used to be tier 4 in 3.5 because they were quite damaging but one trick ponies. Rage powers make them very well rounded with lots of nice features (their near immunity to magic is also a very big point for their versatility).
Cast fire seeds (n) times. Shape in a earth elemental, walk through the earth and reach your target. Perfect sneak. Shape in fire elemental and tell the magic words. Now (n) fire seeds explode.
I like how that tier system puts Rogues at a higher tier than Rangers.
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I like how that tier system puts Rogues at a higher tier than Rangers.
Which is another good example of its poor estimations. :P
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Or, in other words, you were wrong.Ah, so you took the very meh Lore Mystery (for a Fighty-type character at least) and wasted a feat on Dodge. Fair enough.Base (10) + 4 (Mage Armour) + 4 (Shield) + 1 (Dodge) + 5 (CHR from Oracle of Law) + 4 Natural (Eidolon) + 2 Def (Shield of Faith) = AC 30
and that without Expertise and partial defence and other evolutions
The character he's describing is likely a Strength-based fighter with a whopping 18 Strength (at best!), not a single offensive evolution, and only +1 BAB. A level 1 Oracle OR Summoner is not a particularly strong spellcaster, and having a level of each only slows your progression of power. He's far from some kind of unstoppable hybrid juggernaut, and can likely be ignored almost completely, due to unimpressive melee damage and lack of spells known.
If his friend's character seems overpowered, it's only because everyone else at the table hasn't optimized at all.