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Republishing popular APs that will sell seems a far cry from TSR spitting out full lines for 8 different campaign settings.
Heres another thought, what if someone wants to buy a whole AP from Paizo, but cant get one of the installments (usually the first) because it is out of print? This is currently the case with both Carrion Crown and Skull and Shackles. That is 5 units of current product that could be shipped, but wont because its missing one piece.
But my real question, has the company suffered from the RotRL AE, or have they made a tidy profit from it? It has to be one of the highest selling non-core products they have.
I think the important point from vic's post that Joana linked is that the subscriptions are the key to their business model.
Successful business is more than just doing what's profitable - I don't have a link, but I seem to remember them being confident the compilations would sell. They're not avoiding them because they may not be profitable, but because it might affect their central source of reliable, monthly income. Making a large pile of money from one significant investment of resources is a different thing than making the same pile of money from six, smaller enterprises that are broadly the same month by month.
You mention the customer who is steered away from buying an old AP due to a missing issue 1. That has the effect of incentivising the subscription to the current AP - "buy it now and you'll get a free PDF and not have to worry about missing a thing". It's the same as the stupid prices people ask for on eBay being an incentive for the subscription. That drives home the message that the answer to "when's the best time to subscribe?" Is always "now".
They've obviously grown enormously over the last few years, but its hard to understand Paizo's business model without appreciating the central significance of the subscriptions. They keep the lights on, pay the salaries and provide a platform for expansion and side projects. Tinkering with such a core part of their business (or acting in a way which might jeopardise it) is a huge risk - even if the reward on offer is significant, it's probably not worth it for a company with plenty of scope to make profit through other avenues (we've seen them broaden heir product lines via subscription significantly in the last few years - that's much more in line with their business plan than semi regular compilations in the hope AP sales don't drop off).
In regard to the rotrlAE, that was a special event. At the time they went to inordinate lengths to stress it was a one off. It was also a 5/10 year celebration thing. Part of the reason it probably didn't have a significant effect on sales of the current APs was that it was clearly and loudly explained as a one off thing. The more they do, the more it will seem unnecessary to subscribe.
Well I used the example of not buying an AP because it lacked one specific issue because I actually witnessed this. I have a buddy who is a big Ravenloft fan and wanted to buy Carrion Crown, but was unable to get the first volume for any kind of reasonable price, so he decided to pass on the whole thing. He didnt then go "I missed out, I guess I better go subscribe". He wanted one specific AP and couldn't get its completed form, so his dollars stayed put.
Also the "just wait 5 years" argument did make me chuckle, so thank you for that. ;)
Steve your post brings up another interesting question, I wonder what percentage of all Pathfinder players are subscribers to at least one product line.
Well I used the example of not buying an AP because it lacked on specific issue because I actually witnessed this. I have a buddy who is a big Ravenloft fan and wanted to buy Carrion Crown, but was unable to get the first volume for any kind of reasonable price, so he decided to pass on the whole thing. He didnt then go "I missed out, I guess I better go subscribe", he wanted one specific AP and couldn't get its completed form, so his dollars stayed put.
Yeah, they're not going to suit everyone and they will miss sales and profit. The point at issue though is one of cash flow, not profit.
Steve your post brings up another interesting question, I wonder what percentage of all Pathfinder players are subscribers.
Yeah, I wonder about that too - not a large proportion, I'd guess.
Although from Paizo's perspective it's perhaps less important - theyre probably more concerned with what proportion of their costs are covered by subscription sales.
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Funny, Gambit, because I'm the opposite end of the spectrum. I purchased Runelords AE because a friend was urging me to run a game for him and his friend and I didn't want to put them through Night Below (which I was slowly starting to translate into Pathfinder) as I was running it for friends (and it was the third time I'd done NE, though the first time outside of 2nd edition).
Runelords so hooked me that I looked into other APs, saw one that was concerning Baba Yaga and included visiting Russia to kill Rasputin the Mad Monk... and decided to switch my early-stage NE tabletop game to Reign of Winter.
I missed the first issue for the subscription by days.
Rather than complain about it or feel that I was being jipped, I bought the PDF for the first book of the AP and subscribed starting at Book 2. Later on I saw Book 1 on sale in non-mint condition and bought that as well (during the Golem Sale I believe, though it was not significantly discounted).
So for every person who held off on subscribing because it would be partway through an AP, there is someone else who subscribes anyway and buys the previous parts either online, in a store, or through PDFs. It's not an "all or nothing" affair for subscribers or for customers. Each one is different.
Edit: As for the proportion of Paizo customers to AP subscribers? If it's 20% then it makes sense, seeing that the traditional AP is four players, one GM. No doubt the proportion of Paizo subscribers for the rulebooks is higher, seeing that more people can use the rulebooks. But rulebooks also come out less often and thus are less of a profit-maker.
Edit the Second: I'm serious about the "wait five years" bit. When I was running games weekly and for six hour sessions it took two years to get through Night Below (admittedly I expanded on it with outside material, stuff I created, and more). Gaming monthly for four-hour sessions has the Runelords group almost ending book 3 two years after the campaign started and the RoW group (which meets maybe eight times a year) halfway through book 2 with me having cut encounters that I felt were unnecessary for the plot. So if all I had to do is wait five years and an AP would be out in hardcover... why should I subscribe? Of course, I'm also subscribing because I'm enjoying reading the APs and eventually I might find a group who can play weekly again and can run those as well.
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Well I used the example of not buying an AP because it lacked one specific issue because I actually witnessed this. I have a buddy who is a big Ravenloft fan and wanted to buy Carrion Crown, but was unable to get the first volume for any kind of reasonable price, so he decided to pass on the whole thing. He didnt then go "I missed out, I guess I better go subscribe". He wanted one specific AP and couldn't get its completed form, so his dollars stayed put.
I certainly don't think that's unreasonable. If you can't get part 1, then parts 2-6 lose a lot of their value.
Well I used the example of not buying an AP because it lacked one specific issue because I actually witnessed this. I have a buddy who is a big Ravenloft fan and wanted to buy Carrion Crown, but was unable to get the first volume for any kind of reasonable price, so he decided to pass on the whole thing. He didnt then go "I missed out, I guess I better go subscribe". He wanted one specific AP and couldn't get its completed form, so his dollars stayed put.
Also the "just wait 5 years" argument did make me chuckle, so thank you for that. ;)
Steve your post brings up another interesting question, I wonder what percentage of all Pathfinder players are subscribers to at least one product line.
I'm in the exact same boat. I've managed to collect all of the AP's except two because I can't get all six books, and because I can't get all six books, I'm not going to bother buying any of them. And I AM an AP subscriber - I did it because I wanted the new material and will want the new material whether old material becomes available or not. The idea that anyone would say 'I really want that and I can afford it now, but I'm going to wait five years to buy it because something ~might~ happen is patently absurd. I don't necessarily even know where I'll be living, what I'll be driving or who I'll be working for in five years.
I can see some of these arguments against providing the paying customers with what they want, but that one is ridiculous in my opinion.
Edit: As for the proportion of Paizo customers to AP subscribers? If it's 20% then it makes sense, seeing that the traditional AP is four players, one GM. No doubt the proportion of Paizo subscribers for the rulebooks is higher, seeing that more people can use the rulebooks. But rulebooks also come out less often and thus are less of a profit-maker.
20% would make sense IF we were talking about only Pathfinder players who were committed to playing AP's, managed to play 2 AP's a year and chose to pursue those AP's via subscription rather than as needed. I would say that I personally know roughly 40-50 people who play Pathfinder on a regular basis (most through the local PFS Society) and I am one of only two whom are AP subscribers. By comparison, I know at least seven who own the Rise of the Runelords Collected Edition. Anecdotal evidence suggests that out-of-print AP's updated to the new ruleset would in no way threaten existing AP subscriptions, but it would open up additional revenue opportunities for the many who missed out on these AP's the first time around or want to own updated versions fully compatible with the Pathfinder rules.
I would buy collected editions of all of the 3.5 AP's I currently own, and would buy them immediately. Science Fiction AP's like the current one are a greater threat to my subscription dollar than updated material I've already demonstrated a desire to own.
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The thing is, they only have so many people to work on projects at one time. Are you willing for them to put the AP subscription on hold for 6 months while the work on Second Darkness: Hardcover Edition? If the answer is yes, how many other AP subscribers do you think would also be willing?
The thing is, they only have so many people to work on projects at one time. Are you willing for them to put the AP subscription on hold for 6 months while the work on Second Darkness: Hardcover Edition? If the answer is yes, how many other AP subscribers do you think would also be willing?
I wasn't a subscriber when the Rise of the Runelords Collected Edition was being done - how long was the AP subscription line put on hold for it?
All I can do is tell Paizo what I, as a consumer and loyal patron, would like to give them money to do. How they choose to manage their personnel is entirely their province. I can say that I'd have rather had one of those compilations than, say, the needless travesty that Mythic rules was. I'd rather have one than the upcoming Unchained. That's just me (and the majority of people I know). Its up to Paizo to decide where the demand is and how best to manage their resources to meet that demand... its up to me to make sure they have all the information necessary to make an informed decision.
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The thing is, they only have so many people to work on projects at one time. Are you willing for them to put the AP subscription on hold for 6 months while the work on Second Darkness: Hardcover Edition? If the answer is yes, how many other AP subscribers do you think would also be willing?I wasn't a subscriber when the Rise of the Runelords Collected Edition was being done - how long was the AP subscription line put on hold for it?
All I can do is tell Paizo what I, as a consumer and loyal patron, would like to give them money to do. How they choose to manage their personnel is entirely their province. I can say that I'd have rather had one of those compilations than, say, the needless travesty that Mythic rules was. I'd rather have one than the upcoming Unchained. That's just me (and the majority of people I know). Its up to Paizo to decide where the demand is and how best to manage their resources to meet that demand... its up to me to make sure they have all the information necessary to make an informed decision.
Hey, I agree in a way. I'd almost always prefer adventures to more mechanics. I'd be fine with the only future releases in the RPG line being bestiaries every couple of years or so.
But that's not realistic, and it would be catering to a minority of their audience. Most 3.x/PFRPG players believe in the "More rules is better" mantra. They want hundreds of base classes, thousands upon thousands of archetypes, and for there to be a RAW rule for ANYTHING that could ever possibly come up in any type of a game. Adventure is a tedious bit of nonsense that they have to do in between sessions of the REAL game, building their characters. They want to find the perfect broken combination so that they can walk up to BBEG, punch him in the face, and have everyone he's ever met die.
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The idea that anyone would say 'I really want that and I can afford it now, but I'm going to wait five years to buy it because something ~might~ happen is patently absurd. I don't necessarily even know where I'll be living, what I'll be driving or who I'll be working for in five years.
I can see some of these arguments against providing the paying customers with what they want, but that one is ridiculous in my opinion.
That's not the argument.
The argument is that some people (not all) buy single APs. If they're casting around for the next one for their group, they may well favour those that have benefitted from a Playtest, revision and second pass than the currently releasing one.
It will result in a decrease in demand, as well as an increase (from people who get brought in via a compilation and then sign up for a subscription they wouldn't otherwise have got).
Whether the benefits outweigh the costs is another matter, but the argument isn't absurd or ridiculous - even if wrong.
The thing is, they only have so many people to work on projects at one time. Are you willing for them to put the AP subscription on hold for 6 months while the work on Second Darkness: Hardcover Edition? If the answer is yes, how many other AP subscribers do you think would also be willing?I wasn't a subscriber when the Rise of the Runelords Collected Edition was being done - how long was the AP subscription line put on hold for it?
The staff were ground down pretty hard and there were substantial delays to all product lines (whether those are causally related or not, is impossible to say from outside, of course).
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But that's not realistic, and it would be catering to a minority of their audience. Most 3.x/PFRPG players believe in the "More rules is better" mantra. They want hundreds of base classes, thousands upon thousands of archetypes, and for there to be a RAW rule for ANYTHING that could ever possibly come up in any type of a game. Adventure is a tedious bit of nonsense that they have to do in between sessions of the REAL game, building their characters. They want to find the perfect broken combination so that they can walk up to BBEG, punch him in the face, and have everyone he's ever met die.
Do you have to turn everything into complaining about people enjoying things you don't like?
All I can do is tell Paizo what I, as a consumer and loyal patron, would like to give them money to do. How they choose to manage their personnel is entirely their province. I can say that I'd have rather had one of those compilations than, say, the needless travesty that Mythic rules was. I'd rather have one than the upcoming Unchained. That's just me (and the majority of people I know). Its up to Paizo to decide where the demand is and how best to manage their resources to meet that demand... its up to me to make sure they have all the information necessary to make an informed decision.
I, for one, am certainly not trying to stop you doing that. I fully agree with that philosophy (and share your preferences, as it happens).
There's no point dismissing arguments put forward by Vic and others with access to better information than us though. There's benefits and costs to any course if action and the big thing here is risk mitigation. Subscriptions are Paizo's main game - anything which might have a negative impact on that may not be worth the negatives, even if its a sure fire profitable venture.
Arguments about how profitable it would be are missing the point of the objections. Running a business isn't just about doing things which make profit.
Here's the thing.
If you look for threads concerning "hardcover compilation APs" you will find there's easily a dozen of them.
Each and every single one has two themes. The first? A bunch of people saying "we want you to do this and will pay you money for it!"
And in these Paizo employees say this: "we are not going to do another compilation AP."
Do you honestly believe that starting a new thread on this topic is going to change Paizo's CEO's mind? When in a dozen previous threads over several years the official party line is "no more compilation APs"?
Because let me tell you something: I have serious doubts it will. We may very well see a Pathfinder 2 before we see another hardcover compilation AP. At which point you'll want a multitude of compilation APs :P ;)
Kthulhu, usually the only one I ever see people truly clamoring for is Curse of the Crimson Throne. Most of the time I only see Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire brought up as counter points by compilation naysayers using the whole "where will it end?" argument, or the completionists like Wiggz who desire to have them all.
I like you Wiggz, well said on all counts.
Oh, and for a little reference point, 5 years was the entire lifespan of 3.5
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Curse of the Cromaon Throne would be my pick, too.
James Jacobs has previously expressed a desire to see second darkness revised - largely to rework some of the more problematic points in that AP.
He's also been one of the most clear about how difficult it was to work RotRLAE into Paizo's work schedule.
Interesting. With Runelords they didnt need to change much, with Curse they wouldnt need to change much, with Second Darkness they would need to do a whole heap of revision, that thing is a mess (though I do like most of the overall story).
Interesting. With Runelords they didnt need to change much, with Curse they wouldnt need to change much, with Second Darkness they would need to do a whole heap of revision, that thing is a mess (though I do like most of the overall story).
Interestingly, I'm pretty sure I read James saying that if they were to do another compilation, it's Second Darkness he's most want to revisit.
FWIW, the RotRL Anniversary Edition is what started me on the AP subscription path which in turn started me on the modules subscription path and I've even shelled out the dough for the big deluxe leatherbound edition (which will be put to use starting next week :).
I subscribe to the AP's for many reasons... being a single coherent story is only one of them.
Other things I love:
* The adventures are typically fantastic stories even if they get ugly in the encounters/rules dept. (see Wrath of the Righteous - while my group is gimp and struggles - even the people who *hate* mythic and find the AP too easy agree that the story and adventure plot itself are worthy)
* Rules come and go - but the stories can move from system to system - have you gone back and looked at some of the old adventures that were published prior to the pathfinder monthly? They suck. Seriously - they were pretty lack in terms of art, presentation, maps, etc. The Pathfinder volume includes fantastic layout - a good adventure with generally well laid out locations and motivations for the NPCs - fantastic maps - usually an article about a location/god/system that can be transposed to another ruleset - a little slice of fiction that typically sets a bit of mood you can use to help envision the type of environment the adventure is set in (helps with roleplaying the atmosphere and npcs) - and new monsters which again can be system independent.
* Many of the volumes can be (with very little effort) adapted to another campaign without the adventure path tie in - in fact sometimes the complaint is that they don't feel tied into the overall story enough - but (for example) take rise of the runelords - perhaps when your players are level 6ish they are in a city and you need an interesting diversion - the
* Back to the quality the existence of the AP line has affected the entire industry - more and more you see companies adapting to the idea that RPG's actually demand a bit more thought into layout, content, and presentation. The exception to this seems to be D&D which still has (though improved) very poor layout and design. Look at the reviews for the D&D 5th edition starter set - then look where they compare the Paizo Beginner Box - almost universally the D&D product gets panned for lack of presentation. I will also note that the pathfinder products are well done enough that it's caused many friends (personally) that otherwise weren't interested to pick up and actually read one of my RPG books - they catch the eye and draw a reader in. That's powerful stuff.
Anyway just saying - the subscription for me is worth every penny - unless someone else in the industry starts to produce a product that has stories and ideas laid out in a superior manner - (and I have the cash) I'll continue to get them.
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Paizo Pays their monthly bills with the money they make from the subscriptions. It is what keeps the company stable and healthy. They are not going to mess this up for any reason not even for a quick payday. Will they ever do another complilation? I suspect they will eventually after all they do have their tenth anniversary coming up in a few years. :) Which one will they choose probably one that is both out of print any very popular so as to maximize profit. One compilation every 5 years sounds about right meaning only one in ten AP's will ever get compilied and people will still have to buy their monthly script.
I am actually one of the few people that would happily buy both. But most people are not me. I have seen way to much turmoil in the rpg business to take anything for granted. I like getting my books in the mail every month and I don't want it to stop. So I want Paizo to thrive, and if that means I'm stuck with 6 softcover books instead of 1 pretty hardcover then so be it.
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Will Lulu let me print a single book that's comprised of 6 separate PDFs or would I have to somehow find a way to compile them into a single file? I'm getting ready to run Kingmaker, and while PDFs are handy, I much prefer having physical books. If I can get a big, fat, comprehensive book printed by Lulu, that would be awesome!Seems like a lot of extra effort when you are allowed to print a PDF for personal use.Take a high-res snapshot of each page of the AP. Insert the picture into a document (like MS Word; 1 image per page). Convert it to a PDF. Have it printed as a B&W, hardcover on Lulu.
-Skeld
Compiled hardcover, as in putting all 6 issues of an AP into a single hardcover book. You can print on a home printer, but I dont know of anyone that can print and bind 6 issues into a single hardback. I'm not sure Kinkos et al can do a 600 page saddle-stitch book. Lulu can do it for about $30 (B&W) and you can add/remove pages as needed.
Remember, people are asking about compiled hardbacks, not "printed on a home printer and put into a 3-ring binder."
-Skeld
I don't know if you can submit 6 different PDFs or whether is has to be combined into one. Combining would probably save you some pagecount, but I doubt the cost savings would be significant.
-Skeld
Will Lulu let me print a single book that's comprised of 6 separate PDFs or would I have to somehow find a way to compile them into a single file? I'm getting ready to run Kingmaker, and while PDFs are handy, I much prefer having physical books. If I can get a big, fat, comprehensive book printed by Lulu, that would be awesome!Seems like a lot of extra effort when you are allowed to print a PDF for personal use.Take a high-res snapshot of each page of the AP. Insert the picture into a document (like MS Word; 1 image per page). Convert it to a PDF. Have it printed as a B&W, hardcover on Lulu.
-Skeld
Compiled hardcover, as in putting all 6 issues of an AP into a single hardcover book. You can print on a home printer, but I dont know of anyone that can print and bind 6 issues into a single hardback. I'm not sure Kinkos et al can do a 600 page saddle-stitch book. Lulu can do it for about $30 (B&W) and you can add/remove pages as needed.
Remember, people are asking about compiled hardbacks, not "printed on a home printer and put into a 3-ring binder."
-Skeld
I don't know if you can submit 6 different PDFs or whether is has to be combined into one. Combining would probably save you some pagecount, but I doubt the cost savings would be significant.
-Skeld
Just something to keep in mind too - if you're putting together an 'AP only' printout, you can ditch the short stories in the back, some of the interesting but not really applicable bestiaries and gazetteers, etc. It' probably cut down on page count a LOT.
I just grabbed the first Shattered Star pdf at random, and out of 100 pages, 30 could easily be cut without ever affecting the story. I'm sure that's probably pretty standard, though of course the printed page numbers would still be wonky.
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Just something to keep in mind too - if you're putting together an 'AP only' printout, you can ditch the short stories in the back, some of the interesting but not really applicable bestiaries and gazetteers, etc. It' probably cut down on page count a LOT.
Yes. And you can reorganize and recombine as desired. For example, putting all the bestiary entries together at the end of the document. That can also apply to Appendices, Items, etc.
-Skeld
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It's not as simple as people suggest.
It's not a matter of "just" adapting everything to Pathfinder rules.
The early APs included "secondary encounters" within the module. I think they actually revived part of this with Mummy's Mask. These side-encounters are used for extra experience and the like. But how do you integrate them into the main AP as a whole? You need to rework elements to do this.
(If I were to voice a suspicion, I'd say the original "Horror at Hook Mountain" had the Shimmerglen encounter as one of those side-encounters that could be included if the GM wanted to. It has an added-on feel to it, especially with the lack of maps. I also suspect that the Runelords AE did rewrite that encounter somewhat.)
You also have new magic items that were not in the Core Rulebook (though they may very well exist in the Ultimate Equipment Guide); you need to track page numbers and edit in the correct numbers when everything is finished. And you need to edit things to make sure it's correct.
There may also be rights issues concerning art; I'm not sure how Paizo does their contracts for the art, but I believe the standard operating procedure is they have one print right to the artwork and the PDF fits in that. So they may have to renegotiate art contracts and get new art to replace the art they can't use.
This is a full-time job that will take several people several months to make sure it's done right. Nor can Paizo just hire temps to do this. It needs to be done by professionals who know the Pathfinder system, can convert 3.5 to Pathfinder, and who know the world well enough to fix discrepancies.
If Paizo is planning another AE for their 10th anniversary, in all likelihood it is already underway. It is probably a back-seat job that is operated on quietly so that you don't have a huge outcry of people demanding AEs for every single 3.5 AP out there... and then for the older Pathfinder APs... and then all of them.
But you know something? Right now with the Runelords AE they have a nice starter-AP for GMs to latch onto and play through. After that, GMs are more likely to subscribe to get their next AP. Why muddy the waters?
And I'd bet dollars to donuts that its paid off for them rather well, and continues to do so. ;)
Tangent, my friend, you can talk until you are blue in the face and its not going to change our desire for a pretty hardcover compilation book. Lisa Stevens would need to come on here and say that it will NEVER happen (with all caps), until then I will stay hopeful (and confident) that another one will be made.
And I'd bet dollars to donuts that its paid off for them rather well, and continues to do so.
Yep, no doubt it was quite profitable.
If I had the time and energy I would rewrite all of the modules that need updating to Pathfinder rules. That said, I don't have the time or energy. It would be a massive undertaking on my part, and I understand why Paizo is hesitant to do that.
That said, maybe every five years they release an update. "Hey all, it's been 15 years of Pathfinder! Have an updated Curse of the Crimson Throne all done up in a pretty hardback for $60! To go with it we have an extra side adventure in the back of the book!"
I would buy them.
There may also be rights issues concerning art; I'm not sure how Paizo does their contracts for the art, but I believe the standard operating procedure is they have one print right to the artwork and the PDF fits in that. So they may have to renegotiate art contracts and get new art to replace the art they can't use.
I'm pretty sure Paizo's general practise is to but the rights to any commissioned art, not to license it.
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... its not going to change our desire for a pretty hardcover compilation book. Lisa Stevens would need to come on here and say that it will NEVER happen (with all caps), until then I will stay hopeful (and confident) that another one will be made.
I also used to hope for a compilation, until I heard James and the others talk about how much effort it was. That led me to the view that they can only reasonably produce one of these "special projects" every couple of years. THAT led me to the conclusion that I'd be giving up a lot of cool stuff to get the compilations I want.
If second darkness were to be revised and updated, I'd be pretty confident James would be the main staff member involved. However he'd also be the one who wrote the often mooted Sandpoint boxed set. I'd like to see a SD rewrite/compilation however, I don't know that I'd like my Sandpoint boxed set delayed a couple of years just to get it.
It's a tricky thing to manage given there's always appetite for pretty much anything paizo do - they are inevitably not giving someone what they want, no matter what choices they make.
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I agree wholeheartedly with Steve in that if the paizo staff is gonna work on special projects that take up their time I would much rather see NEW material. I want Shadows Under Sandpoint a whole lot more than I want another version of Curse of the Crimson Throne. As for the conversion issue, converting modules/adventures from one edition of D&D to another is fairly simple stuff. And yes I consider all open license games to be versions of D&D including Pathfinder.
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But that's not realistic, and it would be catering to a minority of their audience. Most 3.x/PFRPG players believe in the "More rules is better" mantra. They want hundreds of base classes, thousands upon thousands of archetypes, and for there to be a RAW rule for ANYTHING that could ever possibly come up in any type of a game. Adventure is a tedious bit of nonsense that they have to do in between sessions of the REAL game, building their characters. They want to find the perfect broken combination so that they can walk up to BBEG, punch him in the face, and have everyone he's ever met die.Do you have to turn everything into complaining about people enjoying things you don't like?
There's a thread with over 150 posts asking for a definition of the word "source".
Our local print shop still refuses to print PDFs, even with this. "It's not offical, and could have put there by you, or anyone"
Seems like a lot of extra effort when you are allowed to print a PDF for personal use.
Sounds like they're a little bit paranoid; there isn't much more that Paizo can do to assure that the PDFs can be printed.
I personally can't see any potential for cannibalization in releasing updated compilations of the 3.5 paths, but who knows? And there is always the resource issue.
I'd rather spend my time on the "update the Season 0 PFS mods" soapbox. :)
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There's a thread with over 150 posts asking for a definition of the word "source".
They are enjoying those rules to their fullest and engaging in discussion. Just because someone actually enjoys the rules of the game and how they fit together doesn't mean their enjoyment is somehow less valid. Anymore so than the hundreds of pages debating the morality of various Golarion divinities means that people who enjoy the lore are somehow doing it wrong.
Besides anything is better than the monthly threads of people demanding that Pathfinder art become more pornographic and failure to do so is somehow giving into the "PC police" or "new Puritanism".