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For those of us who'll buy all of them, it's probably not a problem. But for those only buying one every now and again? They have a choice between the currently releasing AP or the hardcover all-in-one. Some who would have bought the new AP will instead choose the convenience of CotCT (or whatever). That's bad.
Irrespective of the details - they know what they're doing and they're pretty clear its going to need to be something really special (vic has lots more posts on the issue, if you want a detailed discussion on it).
It's possible things have changed, however they did ask us not to discuss it. Vic's posts are pretty exhaustive.
Look, the problem you are pointing out is that if someone who is an irregular AP purchaser would decide he DOES want an AP or two, than all the new harcover compilations achieved was to give him more options, which means he will not actualy spend more money, which makes them a bad buisness descision. While I agree with most of what you are saying, I would like to point out to you that there are more than 1 kind of potential buyers for the AP compilations. For example, I am sure that a great number of people subscribed to the AP line AFTER the release of the PFRPG cure rulebook, which means theyv'e only been getting the Pathfinder APs. I am also sure many of those people would be excited to get a Pathfinder version of the early APs they missed out on, and so they are a very large, very potent crowed to market too. In addition, like RotRLAE already proved, many people who actualy owned the original APs might decide to buy the revised editions for sentimental value and for any sort of improvements they might bring.
I get that the people in Paizo are very good at their jobs and they know what they are doing and we shouldn't ignore them the one time they ask us to NOT voice our opinions on a subject... but I'm not asking for revised editions of ALL the APs... just the 3.5 ones, as a special project. That's a request of a very different nature that would have very different results, I think.
I'm not claiming to be addressing all the problems, nor trying to simplify it unnecessarily (I do get your point - I bought both the standard anniversary edition and the deluxe version despite already having the originals).
I'm just pointing out there is an issue which is essentially a dealbreaker (for them, not me - ill basically buy at least one of anything paizo do, sight unseen :p). Solving the other issues isn't really relevant - there is a risk of harm to "current" AP sales. That's a huge deal.
Members of the Paizo staff have posted before that they do not currently forsee doing any more hardback compliations of other APs. RotRL was an exception since it was the first independent Paizo AP.
Vic has mentioned that they don't want to compete with themselves, and that lots of folks would not purchase the subscription (which is Paizo's bread and butter) and just wait for the hardcover. I understand and repsect their viewpoint, however, once the APs are out of print - especially for a couple of years, it might just be worth it to do a run. Hell, fund it on Kickstarter - that way you get the capital up front so it's not such a gamble for the company.
Personally, I am a big fan of the compliations. I bought the hardcover of Shackled City, and cannot tell you how much I wish Paizo could persuade WotC to release the rights for Age of Worms and Savage Tide so they could update them to Pathfinder as beautiful hardcover compilations. It'll never happen, but we can wish, can't we?
I agree that I understand their reason as I am one of the subscribers to the adventure path plan. However, making compilations of all the old 3.5 ones would be a breath of fresh air as DMs won't need to convert monsters, traps, magic items and so on. I often forget that amulets of health don't exsist.
I would suggest only the pre-pathfinder campaigns since those ones are the only ones that need general work (ignoring the minor issues in other APs reguarding miscalculations) and are quite classic, still played on the forums today. I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne and up to Part 4 and the players love it.
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It was a one off celebration of paizo's anniversary, the launch of pathfinder, etcetera.
Here is the post from vic on the topic, in which he asks us to squash the idea. He has lots of other really thorough posts if you search his history for compilations or reprints.
Vic:
"Seriously, guys, please stop asking for other compilations. It's not going to happen, and I don't want people who don't read carefully thinking it's likely to happen.
One of the main reasons for not doing this one is that just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.
This is a unique circumstance."
I understand Vic's concern about hardcovers hurting sales of subscriptions and I would not want to see that happen.
On the other hand, these boards are designed for people to post and express their views and ideas and also to give feedback to the designers about the products that have been released.
Paizo gets the final say on what products they choose to release, but it should be ok for anyone to pitch ideas about what kind of products they would like to see released or to express excitement at the prospect of a product seeing the light of day.
Or maybe you could read the last page for reasons why that won't happen.
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It was a one off celebration of paizo's anniversary, the launch of pathfinder, etcetera.
Here is the post from vic on the topic, in which he asks us to squash the idea. He has lots of other really thorough posts if you search his history for compilations or reprints.
Vic:
"Seriously, guys, please stop asking for other compilations. It's not going to happen, and I don't want people who don't read carefully thinking it's likely to happen.
One of the main reasons for not doing this one is that just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.
This is a unique circumstance."
I understand Vic's concern about hardcovers hurting sales of subscriptions and I would not want to see that happen.
On the other hand, these boards are designed for people to post and express their views and ideas and also to give feedback to the designers about the products that have been released.
Paizo gets the final say on what products they choose to release, but it should be ok for anyone to pitch ideas about what kind of products they would like to see released or to express excitement at the prospect of a product seeing the light of day.
Paizo is the most open minded, communicative company Iv'e ever encountered. They always actively encourage discussion, opinions and criticism. I have seen them make big decsions based on suggestions made in these boards numerous times. So on the one occasion when they want us to NOT ask for something, I think the decent thing to do is play along.
What some of us here are discussing is not just strictly reprinting all the APs as hardcover compilations, but only the 3.5 ones, which is NOT the thing Vic requested people to discourage.
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I agree that I understand their reason as I am one of the subscribers to the adventure path plan. However, making compilations of all the old 3.5 ones would be a breath of fresh air as DMs won't need to convert monsters, traps, magic items and so on.
And this is precisely why it's a bad idea for Paizo to do it. Somebody who doesn't want to do the work of converting the AP themselves is a potential customer for an AP that doesn't need to be converted.
Paizo are not going to go out of their way to convert sales of their bread-and-butter product into less profitable sales; that's just bad business.
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What some of us here are discussing is not just strictly reprinting all the APs as hardcover compilations, but only the 3.5 ones, which is NOT the thing Vic requested people to discourage.
I disagree - that's precisely what Vic did ask us to discourage.
Just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.
That's requesting we refrain from any discussion of the possibility of releasing any other APS as hardcovers. That very definitely does include the 3.5 ones.
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Steve Geddes has done a great job of clarifying what I was trying to say.
Even though I've been trying to explain why Paizo has said they will not do more compilations, I would absolutely buy them if they changed their minds. So please understand that I'm not arguing against compilations.
However, they have clearly said that Runelords is a one-off. If they turn around and say "ok, we're just doing the OGL paths", there will be at least some people who push for more - or worse, assume there will be more and stop subscribing.
Communicating clearly what your intentions are in compiling the 3.5 APs through advertisements, blog posts and in-book text should be enough to make the position of Paizo clear on compiling every AP regularly. RPG costumers are not idiots and are eminently capable of complex thought processes.
Paizo "communicated clearly" through forum posts and a FAQ on the product information page that the Rise of the Runelords anniversary edition was a one-time event and that they had no plans to compile further APs. That doesn't keep threads like this from popping up quite regularly.
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Communicating clearly what your intentions are in compiling the 3.5 APs through advertisements, blog posts and in-book text should be enough to make the position of Paizo clear on compiling every AP regularly. RPG costumers are not idiots and are eminently capable of complex thought processes.Paizo "communicated clearly" through forum posts and a FAQ on the product information page that the Rise of the Runelords anniversary edition was a one-time event and that they had no plans to compile further APs. That doesn't keep threads like this from popping up quite regularly.
Whic is not happening because anyone fails to understand what Paizo officials were saying, only that the desire for at least 3.5 APs being converted is strong. We are not talking about doing the rest of the APs - somebody missed Council Of Thieves? well tough luck, we get that there won't be a AE of that. But there IS a strong case for converting the first four APs.
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I agree that I understand their reason as I am one of the subscribers to the adventure path plan. However, making compilations of all the old 3.5 ones would be a breath of fresh air as DMs won't need to convert monsters, traps, magic items and so on.And this is precisely why it's a bad idea for Paizo to do it. Somebody who doesn't want to do the work of converting the AP themselves is a potential customer for an AP that doesn't need to be converted.
Paizo are not going to go out of their way to convert sales of their bread-and-butter product into less profitable sales; that's just bad business.
What you are saying is true and yet, by itself, largley meaningless. There are more croweds to market to than just 1. According to your logic, no new AP should be done at all, because people looking to buy a new AP might pick it up instead of those already avilable.
People who just want 1 AP they think they want to play are obviously out there, but Paizo's main customer base is subscribers. And given the company's rapid growth these last few years I'm willing to bet there are MANY people who missed out on the 3.5 would be thrilled to buy Revised Editions of old APs without giving up on current APs. They won't just buy them because they are not Pathfinder APs and the conversion could scare them away. What easily COULD intice them to buy those APs would be to put them in one, shiny hard cover in a revised edition.
I don't have exact numbers but I'm sure that if executed smartly, Paizo can do this and still make a profit worhty of their time and effort.
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Here's an idea for how Paizo could significantly INCREASE their number of active AP subscribers while at the same time addressing the 3.5 AP compilation issue: simply declare that existing and new AP subscribers who remain subscribed from a particular starting point for so many months (at least a year?) get a FREE (limited-edition cover?) hardback PF compilation of CotCT, then the next compiled AP a year (or whatever period) after that, until SD and LoF have been completed.
Then instead of possibly being a liability to the AP subscription line, these PF compilations would become juicy incentives to start or maintain an AP subscription.
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Here's an idea for how Paizo could significantly INCREASE their number of active AP subscribers while at the same time addressing the 3.5 AP compilation issue: simply declare that existing and new AP subscribers who remain subscribed from a particular starting point for so many months (at least a year?) get a FREE (limited-edition cover?) hardback PF compilation of CotCT, then the next compiled AP a year (or whatever period) after that, until SD and LoF have been completed.
Then instead of possibly being a liability to the AP subscription line, these PF compilations would become juicy incentives to start or maintain an AP subscription.
Doing a hardcover is WWWAAAYYYY to expansive for your idea to work. Maybe a discount where if a subscriber buys the hardcover he also gets the PDf, but nothing more than that.
Chief Technical Officer
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Nope. I could fix it. It'll take more work than updating Runelords, but of all our Adventure Paths, Second Darkness is in fact the one I'd like to revise and expand the most.Second Darkness seems a better candidate as it needs the most work.Maybe too much work.
Consider the negative opinion associated with it. People are less likely to give something they already don't like another chance to disappoint them.
I'd just like to note that James is speaking of his own personal desire here, and while that's something we certainly consider, it's far from all we consider.
Allow me to give you another data point. While we rarely talk about print run sizes or sales numbers, we do, every now and then, do blog posts where we tell you which items are getting low on stock—defined as under 1000 copies—in our warehouse. (You can find the most recent one here.)
From that, you might deduce the following stock levels for each volume of the AP:
Rise of the Runelords:
Sold out: 1, 3, 5, 6
Between 25 and 100 copies: 4
Between 100 and 250 copies: 2
(Total remaining copies: 125-350)
Crimson Throne:
Between 25 and 100 copies: 2
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 1, 3
More than 1000 copies: 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 4025-?)
Second Darkness:
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 6000-?)
Legacy of Fire:
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 4
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 5500-?)
It doesn't take a business degree to see Rise of the Runelords is in a class by itself. It made a standout candidate for a compilation; any other AP would require a lot more justification.
Note: "More copies in the warehouse" does not directly correlate to "fewer copies sold", as print runs vary from volume to volume. But it's safe to assume that a compilation of any of these would drastically reduce the rate of sales of the current printings, so these numbers are certainly one of many factors we'd take into consideration if we were looking to compile one of them—which we are currently not.
Nope. I could fix it. It'll take more work than updating Runelords, but of all our Adventure Paths, Second Darkness is in fact the one I'd like to revise and expand the most.Second Darkness seems a better candidate as it needs the most work.Maybe too much work.
Consider the negative opinion associated with it. People are less likely to give something they already don't like another chance to disappoint them.
I'd just like to note that James is speaking of his own personal desire here, and while that's something we certainly consider, it's far from all we consider.
Allow me to give you another data point. While we rarely talk about print run sizes or sales numbers, we do, every now and then, do blog posts where we tell you which items are getting low on stock—defined as under 1000 copies—in our warehouse. (You can find the most recent one here.)
From that, you might deduce the following stock levels for each volume of the AP:
Rise of the Runelords:
Sold out: 1, 3, 5, 6
Between 25 and 100 copies: 4
Between 100 and 250 copies: 2
(Total remaining copies: 125-350)Crimson Throne:
Between 25 and 100 copies: 2
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 1, 3
More than 1000 copies: 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 4025-?)Second Darkness:
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 6000-?)Legacy of Fire:
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 4
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 5500-?)It doesn't take a business degree to see Rise of the Runelords is in a class by itself. It made a standout candidate for a compilation; any other AP would require a lot more justification.
Note: "More copies in the warehouse" does not directly correlate to "fewer copies sold", as print runs vary from volume to volume. But it's safe to assume that a compilation of any of...
This tickled a thought in my brain, so I'm going to ask a question purely out of my own ignorance of the business particulars.
I understand the arguments behind not doing anymore updates/compilations at the moment, but what prevents Paizo from simply doing another printing of out-of-stock AP issues?
Cavaet: Yes, with RotRL re-released in its current form, reprinting the originals of this particular AP is a moot point.
That being said, what kind of costs/technical issues would prevent, say, an additional 500-1000 copies of the first two issues of Kingmaker? Those are out-of-stock, and there obviously is a demand for them. Despite the availability of PDFs, many people (like myself) prefer to have the professionally printed versions.
Again, curiousity compels the question, nothing more.
Follow-up: If Paizo saw enough demand, would it reprint older volumes of APS? There are new gamers every year, obviously.
Thanks for your time!
That being said, what kind of costs/technical issues would prevent, say, an additional 500-1000 copies of the first two issues of Kingmaker? Those are out-of-stock, and there obviously is a demand for them.
A very interesting thread by Vic Wertz on why Paizo doesn't reprint
Vic has several posts in the thread addressing the issue from a business perspective.
That being said, what kind of costs/technical issues would prevent, say, an additional 500-1000 copies of the first two issues of Kingmaker? Those are out-of-stock, and there obviously is a demand for them.A very interesting thread by Vic Wertz on why Paizo doesn't reprint
Vic has several posts in the thread addressing the issue from a business perspective.
Thanks!! Very interesting.
I was aware of some of the factors of reprints, but I was not aware the profit margin was cut so close.
That being said, I do think if there's enough interest, this rule could be "violated" for a handful of products not normally considered Evergreen.
That's just me, though. :)
What some of us here are discussing is not just strictly reprinting all the APs as hardcover compilations, but only the 3.5 ones, which is NOT the thing Vic requested people to discourage.
Hopefully Vic will chime in again and clarify (as I said, things may have changed since it was first such a huge issue). But bear in mind that I just posted a handful of links - my impression from Vic was that even what you are talking about was something he'd rather not see discussed too frequently.
They even veered away from indicating any interest in "One every five years" or some of the other very limited things people had suggested.
I don't have exact numbers but I'm sure that if executed smartly, Paizo can do this and still make a profit worhty of their time and effort.
It's not that Paizo think these ideas dont have merit - it's pure risk avoidance based around their business model. A company shouldnt just do everything which will probably make a profit, nor everything for which there is sufficient demand. Focus is valuable. Going down the route you are suggesting would require a significant shift in their business model - there would be a large number of flow-through ramifications that would need to be considered.
Things may have changed (or might soon change). After all, when they formulated their model there was no Rulebook line, they were not king-of-the-castle and they didnt have the brand power they now do. Nonetheless, the answer so far has been "very, very unlikely and please dont keep asking about it".
I'd search Vic's posting history for "compilations" or "reprints" (maybe "business model"?) and other such terms. He's put out a lot of explanations about this issue over the last few years.
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Nope. I could fix it. It'll take more work than updating Runelords, but of all our Adventure Paths, Second Darkness is in fact the one I'd like to revise and expand the most.Second Darkness seems a better candidate as it needs the most work.Maybe too much work.
Consider the negative opinion associated with it. People are less likely to give something they already don't like another chance to disappoint them.
I'd just like to note that James is speaking of his own personal desire here, and while that's something we certainly consider, it's far from all we consider.
Allow me to give you another data point. While we rarely talk about print run sizes or sales numbers, we do, every now and then, do blog posts where we tell you which items are getting low on stock—defined as under 1000 copies—in our warehouse. (You can find the most recent one here.)
From that, you might deduce the following stock levels for each volume of the AP:
Rise of the Runelords:
Sold out: 1, 3, 5, 6
Between 25 and 100 copies: 4
Between 100 and 250 copies: 2
(Total remaining copies: 125-350)Crimson Throne:
Between 25 and 100 copies: 2
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 1, 3
More than 1000 copies: 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 4025-?)Second Darkness:
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 6000-?)Legacy of Fire:
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 4
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 5500-?)It doesn't take a business degree to see Rise of the Runelords is in a class by itself. It made a standout candidate for a compilation; any other AP would require a lot more justification.
Note: "More copies in the warehouse" does not directly correlate to "fewer copies sold", as print runs vary from volume to volume. But it's safe to assume that a compilation of any of...
Well, these number ARE significant... still, O would not abandon hope. I don't even know if these books are selling at all anymore, but I am confidant they WILL sell if converted to Pathfinder and bound in a hardcover.
However, I having said my piece, I will live the buisnessmen to do buisness and hope for the bset. No more pushing for more revised editions from me :)
Yeah, same here. It's a real shame, though. CotCT really deserved to get updated. I wonder a bit why it didn't sell as well as RotRL, it generally has an excellent reputation. I certainly have seldomly seen people saying that they didn't like this AP and many, many people who hail it as one of Paizos best AP releases, if not the best.
Yeah, same here. It's a real shame, though. CotCT really deserved to get updated. I wonder a bit why it didn't sell as well as RotRL, it generally has an excellent reputation. I certainly have seldomly seen people saying that they didn't like this AP and many, many people who hail it as one of Paizos best AP releases, if not the best.
While I completely agree with your opinion on CotCT, that's not what Vic said. The figures he quoted state the number of copies remaining, and don't indicate how many copies they sold (since the number of copies printed vary from issue to issue). You may be right, but it might also be the fact that RotRL sold well at the time and Paizo might have chosen to increase the number of copies printed for the next AP. That, however, is pure conjecture.
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My group has already finished RotRL, CotCT and LoF. I did not buy the RotRLAE for that reason (also I think it is overrated as an AP). I would definitely preorder a CotCT one though, and would love a directors cut of SD so we can actuslly play through it (although as time has gone on I have started liking SD as is. Just works better for one PC or as a Star Wars game than a group of adventurers)
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Yeah, same here. It's a real shame, though. CotCT really deserved to get updated. I wonder a bit why it didn't sell as well as RotRL, it generally has an excellent reputation. I certainly have seldomly seen people saying that they didn't like this AP and many, many people who hail it as one of Paizos best AP releases, if not the best.
It sold less purely for the faults of not being the first AP, and of having slightly less universal themes - sure, anyone can get and like an AP about PCs killing increasingly larger evil humanoids (goblins...ghouls...ogres...giants) and finally confronting an evil wizard in his secluded tower. Korvosa however is a very unique and Golarion specific city, and most of Curse of the Crimson Throne is a lot about that city and about other themes that deviate from the established tropes of gaming. Where in Rise of the Runelords PCs save the small, friendly town from a horde of little goblins, PCs in Curse of the Crimson Throne are stuck in the middle of a complex, wierd city filled with people who act in ways that are not entirely evil yet not entirely good, either. It's a different style of game and it dosen't suit everyone.
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My group has already finished RotRL, CotCT and LoF. I did not buy the RotRLAE for that reason (also I think it is overrated as an AP). I would definitely preorder a CotCT one though, and would love a directors cut of SD so we can actuslly play through it (although as time has gone on I have started liking SD as is. Just works better for one PC or as a Star Wars game than a group of adventurers)
ha, you guys planning on doing all the APs in the order in which they were published (maybe skipping one here and there?).
Also I agree that Rise of the Runelords is overrated. It's great, but it is also easy to notice that it is the first - it's adventures are most unconnected, two adventures in the middle (#4 and #5) are just dungeons that PCs have to slog through, and until (spoilers for entire RotRL AP)
most of the AP is kind of unconnected to the world of Golarion (which was being developed at the same time as the AP itself).
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Nope. I could fix it. It'll take more work than updating Runelords, but of all our Adventure Paths, Second Darkness is in fact the one I'd like to revise and expand the most.Second Darkness seems a better candidate as it needs the most work.Maybe too much work.
Consider the negative opinion associated with it. People are less likely to give something they already don't like another chance to disappoint them.
I'd just like to note that James is speaking of his own personal desire here, and while that's something we certainly consider, it's far from all we consider.
Allow me to give you another data point. While we rarely talk about print run sizes or sales numbers, we do, every now and then, do blog posts where we tell you which items are getting low on stock—defined as under 1000 copies—in our warehouse. (You can find the most recent one here.)
From that, you might deduce the following stock levels for each volume of the AP:
Rise of the Runelords:
Sold out: 1, 3, 5, 6
Between 25 and 100 copies: 4
Between 100 and 250 copies: 2
(Total remaining copies: 125-350)Crimson Throne:
Between 25 and 100 copies: 2
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 1, 3
More than 1000 copies: 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 4025-?)Second Darkness:
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 6000-?)Legacy of Fire:
Between 500 and 1000 copies: 4
More than 1000 copies: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6
(Total remaining copies: 5500-?)It doesn't take a business degree to see Rise of the Runelords is in a class by itself. It made a standout candidate for a compilation; any other AP would require a lot more justification.
Note: "More copies in the warehouse" does not directly correlate to "fewer copies sold", as print runs vary from volume to volume. But it's safe to assume that a compilation of any of...
Vic,
Thanks for sharing this info. What you are saying makes a lot of sense.
I'm sure Paizo has contemplated many different options with regards to updating previous APs, and I know this idea won't appeal to everybody, but I thought I'd put this out there anyway:
Have you thought about releasing a "seventh" PFRPG update AP volume for each of the 3.5 APs which would contain updated NPC stat-blocks for all of the previous 6 APs, some basic broad stroke modifications on how to better link up or DM each of the previous APs, some additional encounters and maps. What I envision is a product that would contain all the fixes to the AP (like the Anniversary Edition of RotRL) but which would not necessarily reprint the core text of the 6 APs.
This would encourage customers to buy old AP volumes of CotCT, SD and LOF as they would still be necessary to play the AP in its updated form. It would also avoid the risk of people cancelling their subscription thinking that they can just wait for a compilation.
These updates could be published in a 64 page module format or a 100 page AP format as necessary. Or if printing would be too costly or if more than 100 pages were needed, maybe you could do a pdf only format like you are doing for "The Emerald Spire" mega-adventure.
Anyway, I know this wouldn't be a hit with everybody, but I would definitely buy these updates.
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Yeah, same here. It's a real shame, though. CotCT really deserved to get updated. I wonder a bit why it didn't sell as well as RotRL, it generally has an excellent reputation. I certainly have seldomly seen people saying that they didn't like this AP and many, many people who hail it as one of Paizos best AP releases, if not the best.
The other APs are selling quite well.
Note that Vic's numbers do not talk about total print runs.
Once we did Runelords, we got a LOT of information about how to more accurately size our print runs so that the APs would stay in print longer.
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I am a charter subscriber, my group has started every AP. Runelords, Crimson and Legacy of Fire are the only we have finished. We are however on Thirteen Cages in Shackled City and book 5 of both Jade Regent and Carrion Crown. Currently running those three and Shattered Star. After those three we are nearly finished with are done we will be playing Kingmaker (attempt 2, different dm), Reign of Winter and Slumbering Tsar in their place.
Mostly this thread makes me want to either GM or play in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I had no idea it was such a well thought of AP.
Now if only there was a version that had already been conveniently converted over to Pathfinder ...
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Mostly this thread makes me want to either GM or play in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I had no idea it was such a well thought of AP.
Now if only there was a version that had already been conveniently converted over to Pathfinder ...
Check out the AP threads on these boards. Also the d20pfsrd.
There are conversions available for all of the monsters, npc's, traps, items...I don't think any of them are perfect, but they will save you a lot of work :)
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Mostly this thread makes me want to either GM or play in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I had no idea it was such a well thought of AP.
Now if only there was a version that had already been conveniently converted over to Pathfinder ...
Hero Lab, if you have it makes it fairly easy to convert NPC's and the like to Pathfinder RPG, fast as well :)
I have used it for that several times with Pathfinder Society too to make conversions for my personal stuff. :)
Thanks for the information about print numbers, James, Lithrac.
@Ninja: You can find conversions to Pathfinder for CotCT here.
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Coming to think of the matter a bit, I now really believe this is all a matter of time. After enough time passes, and more and more new players are intoduced to Pathfinder, the demand for revised editions of the older APs will increase, as indeed many of the new players might never have played D&D 3.5 at all. The first APs will continue to be famous, partly from the merit of being first and partly in their own right (Curse of the Crimson Throne still holding the crown of "Known As Best AP" so far).
My thoughts? ten years from now, at the latest (probably earlier than that), converting the 3.5 APs and updating them will become financialy profitable to Pazio at least as much as the RotRLAE was. give it time and be patient :)
FYI - If I'm doing my math right,
Kingmaker:
Sold out: 1, 2
Between 100 and 250 copies: 4, 5, 6
More than 1000 copies: 3
(Total remaining copies: 1300-?)
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Anyone have any thoughts on the idea I posted in my previous post? Would you buy a "seventh" PFRPG update AP volume for the 3.5 APs that would still require purchasing all 6 volumes to run the AP? (see above for details)
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Lord Snow. Curse of the Crimson Throne is not the best in my opinion and to be honest not even the Second best. It might hold the "Crown" with you but not everyone sir :)
Implying that everyone does is a misnomer.
I for one would rather not see the Hard cover compilations. To many of them would make me ticked off to be honest. I have bought all the AP's and have spent a lot of money to do so. Making the compilations would invalidate some of that.
I for one would rather not see the Hard cover compilations. To many of them would make me ticked off to be honest. I have bought all the AP's and have spent a lot of money to do so. Making the compilations would invalidate some of that.
How so? Nobody would force you to buy the compilations. You're not seriously saying that nobody else should have those adventures anymore, aren't you?
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Lord Snow. Curse of the Crimson Throne is not the best in my opinion and to be honest not even the Second best. It might hold the "Crown" with you but not everyone sir :)
Implying that everyone does is a misnomer.I for one would rather not see the Hard cover compilations. To many of them would make me ticked off to be honest. I have bought all the AP's and have spent a lot of money to do so. Making the compilations would invalidate some of that.
Please re-read my post that you were responding to, sir :)
if you will, you would notice I was very careful to use subjective terms - I said Curse of the Crimson Throne is "Known As Best AP", and it's hard to argue that it isn't, at least here on the Paizo massegeboards. One can say that the AP is such that those who like it are usualy also those who enjoy the messageboards more, creating a correlation. Or there could be a hundred other explenations for it being so popular around here - I personaly think it's because it's good thoough ;)
anyway, I'm not being "misnomeric" or anything, just pointing out the fact that CotCT is very popular, and also that I am one of it's many fans.
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I for one would rather not see the Hard cover compilations. To many of them would make me ticked off to be honest. I have bought all the AP's and have spent a lot of money to do so. Making the compilations would invalidate some of that.How so? Nobody would force you to buy the compilations. You're not seriously saying that nobody else should have those adventures anymore, aren't you?
I think the vibe: "So, everyone else can get what I had, only improved and for less money! If I'd known, I'd have waited!"
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I think the vibe: "So, everyone else can get what I had, only improved and for less money! If I'd known, I'd have waited!"I for one would rather not see the Hard cover compilations. To many of them would make me ticked off to be honest. I have bought all the AP's and have spent a lot of money to do so. Making the compilations would invalidate some of that.How so? Nobody would force you to buy the compilations. You're not seriously saying that nobody else should have those adventures anymore, aren't you?
That's true for almost any product out there, though, you pay more for it if it's new. Take video games for example - but 'em while they are fresh out of the over and you might pay as much as 60$. However I never played more than 20$ for a game, I just buy them 2, 3 years after they came out, when they are on a sale in Steam, and usualy the sale is not the original version but a "game of the year" version with all sorts of free DLCs and whatnot.
So sure, everyone can get the compiled AP you bought piece after piece... but would you be willing to wait 5 years for that?
Nope. I could fix it. It'll take more work than updating Runelords, but of all our Adventure Paths, Second Darkness is in fact the one I'd like to revise and expand the most.Second Darkness seems a better candidate as it needs the most work.Maybe too much work.
Consider the negative opinion associated with it. People are less likely to give something they already don't like another chance to disappoint them.
Damn I love Paizo.
I should note: not necessarily because I like the idea of seeing SD updated (though I do), but rather because I love the idea of treating your creative works as living things that can be revisited and improved as circumstances warrant.
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I would rather they support the old APs by creating and selling corrected Interactive Maps for them.
I think this is a great idea. I can buy whatever APs I want to buy, maybe not in my preferred format, but since I am still really new, I am still determining my...preferred format. I have the AE of Runelords, mostly because it is going to be the first time I GM a game and I wanted all the conversions. BUT, now I am scouring the website for the maps, I need some for a tabletop and some for when we are going to be online and I'd really like for them to have "fog of war" and such.
I am still trying to decide if I want the hard copies of AP or just go with the PDF, printing them isn't the issue, although I think the APs could really use a spiral bound option.