LazarX I'm not so sure about that, in the Inner Sea Bestiary, it states that people knew the veiled masters as powerful wizards and there were even rumors that they weren't human, the masters just quelled those rumors with terrible violence. Their ego might push them to more important roles even though they would be perfectly capable of accomplishing their goals with much more mundane roles.
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White Estrid.
Now hear me out...
Nah, but mostly cause I think WE is too kickass a female human to owe her awesomeness to being a veiled master in disguise.
Boiltongue, however, could be the veiled master as a whispering advisor/power-behind-the-throne. Bonus points to White Estrid if she knows and still struck the deal anyway.
I just woke up thinking 'Boiltongue would be an awesome veiled master' and then dredged up this thread to find out that it was not my idea. :(
So, thread necromancy, I was also thinking what sort of long-term goals would Boiltongue-as-Veiled-Master have? White Estrid is a convention-defying Linnorm King in many ways, and a shadowy puppetmaster behind her throne (I mean, *literally* coiled up behind her physical throne) hissing in her ear (again, *literally* hissing in her ear) might be the source of her convention-defying ways, as it's long term goals include getting the fiercely proud and traditionalist (in their own faux Viking way) Ulfen used to unconventional ways, like allowing dwarves and half-orcs to work beside them, and letting a women who doesn't have a stuffed Linnorm head having above her throne sit on the throne by the technicality that she did indeed *defeat* a Linnorm (at least, according to the Linnorm itself...).
She may be old and grey by the time 'phase 1' of Boiltongue's plan is complete, but she'll by the sole King of the entire Lands of the Linnorm Kings, having bent or broken the others to her will, and her navy will control the ports of the Inner Sea, sailing with impunity into the harbors of rival nations and demanding tribute, manned by half-orcs and elite squads of gillmen (with Ulfen features) that go overboard and attack anyone who challenges their primacy from the sea, gutting the undefended bellies of their ships and looting the sunken wrecks later.
'Phase 2' involves White Estrid's demands for tribute (and raids on merchant ships) growing so onerous that Taldor, Cheliax, Qadira, etc. combine forces to challenge her supremacy, building new armies (and, especially, navies), which the Veiled Master's have their own designs upon. The plan was never to build up White Estrid as a ruler in their name, but as a threat to rally the other Inner Sea kingdoms to building a vast war machine that the Veiled Masters have entirely *other* plans for...
[As for the size change issue, 'Boiltongue' is a 'generously proportioned' (it prefers 'big boned') specimen of Veiled Master and wears a magical torc that allows it to take the form of size large and huge creatures.]
What if Achaekek was really a Veiled Master? O_O
Razmir!
This. We know that Aboleths are staunch aethiests, as they believe themselves better than the gods - It would make sense then that one of them might want to create a religion based upon worshipping an Aboleth, no?
We already know that Razmir is a sorcerer - Veiled masters are natural sorcerers, and have a variety of ways to increase their spellcasting abilities through classes and prestige classes.
Granted, Razmir being a veiled master would be less useful to the Aboleths' cause than Gyr being one, but Razmir could simply be an experiment to see if humans are trickable into believing that a sorcerer is a false god. Done on a small scale at first to see if it is possible, and then have Razmir 'die' of old age (As is feared by his high priests), only to be 'reborn' later?
Perhaps that is their overarching goal, is to get humans to worship them so they may enslave us in a different way than they did with the Azlanti?
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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BA Boneskull dropped the name up-thread, but my money is on...
Aroden.
The entire "Last Azlanti" title was a cover. All attempts to divine Aroden's ancestry have failed, no (discovered) record of his lineage remains, all because Aroden was -- in truth -- a veiled master that rebelled against its own kind. Refusing to serve as a puppetmaster for humanity, Aroden instead rose to become their secret protector, enlightening humanity and raising the starstone from the depths of the Inner sea, shielding it with the Starstone cathedral so that it may never be used as a weapon again.
Aroden was the last straw that sent the aboleth into a fit that nearly destroyed the world. Not in that he was a noble azlanti seeking to uplift humanity to a loftier place, but that he was a traitor to their own kind who was on a path to ascend to become a deity. Aroden the Veiled Master was antithesis to all things aboleth.
Brash and headstrong, Aroden managed to keep his identity secret through his long career, until a pivotal point in time where the truth behind his "human" guise would be revealed, and instead of destroying everything he worked to build by revealing that he was in fact a monster, Aroden took his own life.
And took the secret to his grave.
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James Jacobs has been hinting around about Xanderghul's method of Earthfall survival in his "Ask..." thread, and it gave me the crazy notion to suggest the Runelord of Pride as a Veiled Master!
Think about it: What's the ultimate height of arrogance/pride but to think that you are greater than the gods themselves? :)
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Having glanced over this thread, I've reached a startling conclusion!
I know who the decemverate are! Their members are as follows:
1. A Veiled Master
2. An ordinary human whose mind has been swapped with that of a Yithian
3. The unwitting thrall of a powerful succubus living on the moon
4. A cleverly disguised Mi-Go
5. A serpentfolk reincarnated into a human body
6. One of the thousand avatars of Nyarlathotep
7. Durvin Gest
8. Old-Mage Jatembe
9. Aroden
10. Three goblins in a long coat
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Having glanced over this thread, I've reached a startling conclusion!
I know who the decemverate are! Their members are as follows:
10. Three goblins in a long coat
Pst, Black Blood Troll, Citizen Doodlebug, I think they're on to us!
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Having glanced over this thread, I've reached a startling conclusion!
I know who the decemverate are! Their members are as follows:
10. Three goblins in a long coat
Pst, Black Blood Troll, Citizen Doodlebug, I think they're on to us!
It should be asked what goblins are doing reading forum posts...
;p
Carry on!
--C.
Beh. We ALL know who the worst, most deviously monstrous, most inexculcably (yeah, it needs a new word, that's how bad it is) evil mastermind is...
Belor Hemlock.
This is still one of the best threads on the forum.
Thanks Mr. Totally-Not-Paizo!
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James Jacobs has been hinting around about Xanderghul's method of Earthfall survival in his "Ask..." thread, and it gave me the crazy notion to suggest the Runelord of Pride as a Veiled Master!
Think about it: What's the ultimate height of arrogance/pride but to think that you are greater than the gods themselves? :)
While reading this thread, I devised a conspiracy theory for Golarion.
There are a number of Veiled Masters running around, trying to convert the sentient population of Golarion to turn their back on the gods. However, the aboleth themselves don't know the best way to do it, and so they have taken a multi-pronged approach and have established different places where the mortals learn not to worship.
The different methods they have chosen have a basis in Thassilonian rune-magic. So, each of the Seven Deadly Sins are invoked in order to create seven different ways a mortal might turn from the gods.
Wrath: This is Rahadoum. The people are angry at the gods and directly reject them.
Pride: This is Hermea. The locals are given a new philosophy to believe, and are selected as the best examples of humanity.
Greed: This is Druma. The Prophecies of Kalistrade involve the rejection of theistic worship, hidden in among all its rules, to maintain the idea that great wealth is possible through focusing only on it.
Gluttony: This is Razmiran. Instead of convincing people into taking no god, trick them into taking a false god. The false god promises large amounts of wealth and temporal power, along with ostentatious display.
Sloth: This is Po Li. Over in Tian Xia, everyone waits for the Eternal Emperor, and accepts no other faith. They wait. And wait.
Envy: This is Bachuan. By demanding that everyone be equal within the nation, by declaring Lung Wa a terrible thing, they are always fervently looking for any sign that someone else has it better.
Lust: This is Touvette, in the River Kingdoms. Embracing a cult of personality in the General, showing open thanks to the Knights, it's a power structure based on what people can take from each other.
dotting
This thread is fabulous.
A relatively minor quibble: the Ten Magic Warriors and the Decemvirate aren't related. The Decemvirate helms, which we have seen depicted, are entirely different from the Ten's "golden masks shaped to resemble fantastic creatures of the jungle interior." Sorry to disrupt anyone's link between the Pathfinder Society and Old-Mage Jatembe, but the resemblance between the Ten and the Decemvirate appears to be purely superficial.
Also, for those of you asking how a veiled master might get access to mind blank, couldn't they just get a dominated spellcaster to do it for them? I'm sure Lord Gyr keeps a wizard advisor close by...
Durvin Gest is perhaps the most famous of all Pathfinders and his exploits feature prominently in several of the earliest volumes of the Pathfinder Chronicles. He is best known for his exploration of Old Azlant, the destruction of the treacherous Lens of Galundari, and his commandeering of The Silken Purse and piloting it around the southern tip of Garund. Even centuries after his final disappearance in 4360 AR, Gest remains one of the most legendary names in Golarion and statues of him grace many of the Pathfinder Society's facilities, including a 20-foot likeness in Absalom's Grand Lodge.
source here:http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Durvin_Gest
The Decemvirate recalled this volume and destroyed all circulating copies shortly after its publication. It is rumored to have contained details on the events leading to the final disappearance of Durvin Gest. The Repository of the Grand Lodge in Absalom holds the only known copy
source here: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Chronicles#Volume_5
In this volume, Durvin Gest light-heartedly discusses the Scepter of Ages and its powers. He also recounts its near loss to a Garundi bandit noble
source here:http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Chronicles#Volume_6
The Scepter of Ages is a major artifact granting power to travel through time.
source here: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Scepter_of_Ages
Suspicion One or more of the Decemvirate are Veiled Masters (or are in their thrall). Report #5 contains some forbidden secret relating to the Scepter of Ages they didn't want passed on. Because of this, Gest was betrayed and eliminated and Pathfinder Chronicle #5 destroyed. Pathfinder Chronicles #6 is clearly a change in tone and reflects a piece of propaganda fabricated to dissuade people from investigating the Scepter of Ages (it's even numbered after the volume that's rumored to contain the details of his demise.) At least a few of the Veiled Masters have an interest in making sure the past stays buried.
(Admittedly strange considering how the aboleth's acts of destruction came back to bite them in the behind.)
(DISCLAIMER: It is a well-known fact thread necromancers are 100% NOT veiled masters!)
The problem with all of the above suggestions.... they're too bloody obvious. A veiled master is more likely to be a nameless servant, or even a janitor, someone whom you're likely to forget as soon as you lay eyes off them... like the Silence.
Veiled Masters have mental powers they don't need to be these figures just someone who comes in contact with the right people every now and then.
As much as I like sensation "oooh" suggestions, there is a certain amount of good common sense to this.
The best place for a veiled master is close to the seat of power, but not necessarily the focus of it.
There are probably veiled masters lurking around places that have never been fully introduced or developed yet, like powerful drow cities.
This post made me think that it's possible that a Technic League Captain's lieutenant is a Veiled Master. Seems like the kind of thing they'd be interested in keeping an eye on, and possibly discouraging development of via... well, via stirring up infighting when they get too close to getting fully organized. Of course, they'd know enough to not interfere with the PCs in Iron Gods, because at that point, they'd have to drop the disguise, and at that point their former dupes try to get them vivisected in the name of science (and cruelty).
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Suspicion One or more of the Decemvirate are Veiled Masters (or are in their thrall). Report #5 contains some forbidden secret relating to the Scepter of Ages they didn't want passed on. Because of this, Gest was betrayed and eliminated and Pathfinder Chronicle #5 destroyed...
That's a really interesting theory. It actually makes me think of Warren Ellis' comic series Planetary. In that, there is a character who created a series of books not dissimilar to the Pathfinder Chronicles, but who is eventually silenced by those who didn't want him to let out the hidden secrets of the world.
It seems to me that the Pathfinder Society could actually be a good way for the aboleth to control the sort of information they want disseminated, and stifle that they don't want let out to the rest of the world. Puppetmasters of information.
Even if that's not the real agenda behind the Pathfinder Society- I'm thinking this could make for a really cool conspiracy laden campaign!
Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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While I am forbidden from revealing the identities of any veiled masters, I can confirm with authority (heh) that Warren Ellis's Planetary Guides and to some extent the Planetary organization itself was part of the jumble of ideas that inspired the Pathfinder Society, and specifically the Pathfinder Chronicles.
Hmm, that's really interesting. Do you suppose that's why Aroden was killed? He was helping humanity get ahead too much? And the aboleth are/were like the Four?
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While I am forbidden from revealing the identities of any veiled masters, I can confirm with authority (heh) that Warren Ellis's Planetary Guides...
I see what you did there. And approve.
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The Harbingers of Fate is an organization founded in 4648 AR by Lord Garron, an exiled Chelish noble living in Absalom. He believed that bringing about the prophesies foretold in writings called the Book of 1,000 Whispers would somehow retrigger the promised Age of Glory and perhaps even the return of Aroden himself. The book's predictions were accurate up to the beginning of the Age of Lost Omens, when like all other soothsaying, they could no longer foretell the future. Until his death, Lord Garron actively tried to bring about these prophesies, but never achieved any positive results.His work has been continued by his daughter Lady Arodeth, who has used her fortune to hire agents who scour Avistan and Garund for any clues which might refer to one of the predictions. Their methods have been growing more and more desperate, as the book's final pronouncements are said to occur in 4714 AR, and so far none of them has come true. With each passing year and each passing failure, the group strays further from the teachings of Aroden and deeper into desperation and madness.[2]
Their goals are not known to the general public, who believe Lady Arodeth to simply be the uninspired inheritor of a mercenary company known in Absalom as the Band of Blades.
source: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Harbingers_of_Fate
The Book of 1,000 Whispers is a book of prophecy used as a guidebook by the Harbingers of Fate in Absalom. This book predicts events happening between the years of 4604 AR and 4714 AR. Unfortunately for the Harbingers, many of the remaining prophecies make no sense.
source: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Book_of_1,000_Whispers
Suspicion: Lady Arodeth is herself a veiled master or the group has become a pawn of the veiled masters.
It is not by accident that the Harbingers stray from Aroden's teachings, for the teachings of Aroden are being supplanted by the teachings of ABOLETH. Much like how the Decemvirate silenced Gent and fabricated a phony Pathfinder Chronicle #6, the veiled masters have replaced much of the prophecies bound within Book of 1,000 Whisper prophecies with ones nonsensical to human minds. This is because it was made for ABOLETH minds!
The name of the book is probably even a tongue in cheek reference to the ancient aboleth communal memory!
It is true the Harbingers work to bring about a new Azlant, but not like one that would have been under Aroden's rule. No, they seek to bring back an Aroden only in name and appearance, a puppet that exists to fulfill the will of the aboleth only!
(And most appropriately, this is my 667th post.)
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The Hermea theory disgusts me. Why can't at least one place be genuinely good without being suddenly corrupted as hell by some dark secrets in it?
Well, when I think of a genuinely good place in Golarion, it does not bear any resemblance to how I picture Hermea.
Rather it would be a picturesque idyllic place much like the Shire.
All of you.
Who are you calling a Veiled Master, squid-face?
The Hermea theory disgusts me. Why can't at least one place be genuinely good without being suddenly corrupted as hell by some dark secrets in it?Well, when I think of a genuinely good place in Golarion, it does not bear any resemblance to how I picture Hermea.
Rather it would be a picturesque idyllic place much like the Shire.
See, I'd be super suspicious of a picturesque, idyllic place with all this harmony & love stuff. Erastil may be LG, but there's a lot of evil that can sit in the middle of "his house" without him necessarily noticing its insidious nature. Give me a land so urbanized Abadar himself would not believe it possible. Give me a nation whose focus is on technological progress so great that even Brigh is given pause. Yes, the green has its place, and without it we have lost a vital tie to our past. But give me forests of glass and steel, glowing from a thousand artificial suns, and give me caverns of synthetic materials which glow because we have willed our knowledge into them. Give me floating towers and shimmering sky-bridges. Give me the light of science, floated alongside the dusty smell of tomes filled with arcane spells. Give me an automatic bard that one can hear from a mile away and a year ago. Refresh my memories with the experience I once had.
Give me what Numeria could have been, were it not for the Technic League. Give me what Alkenstar could have been, had Starfall happened in the Mana Wastes. Give me the beautiful offspring of Nex, Alkenstar, and Numeria, mixed into a beautiful sleekness. There lies beauty. There lies true wonder. There lies my heart.
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At the height of Imperial Azlant, the Knights of the Eastern Star was one of the two sects of the shining order of armored magi known as the Knights of the Ioun Stone. The Knights of the Western Star served the emperor and the empire's Throne of Glass while the Knights of the Eastern Star searched the lands beyond the empire's borders for secret lore. The few Knights of the Western Star who survived the Earthfall eventually came to serve the living god Aroden while the Knights of the Eastern Star never believed that Aroden was truly the Last Azlanti. When Aroden died the Knights of the Western Star faded from history but the Knights of the Eastern Star have remained scattered throughout Avistan and beyond, since Earthfall, ever searching for secret lore and the new ruler who would restore the glory of Azlant..[1]
The strongest faction of the Knights of the Eastern Star is centered in Oppara. The knights focus their attention further to the east, in the Windswept Wastes of Casmaron. This chapter of the knights, known as Apotheosis Almorain, believe that a resurgent cult of the Ninshaburian hero-god, Namzaruum, will produce the leader destined to become the next emperor of Azlant.
source: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Star
Ninshabur (destroyed -632 AR) was once a great and powerful empire, constantly expanding across Casmaron, until disaster struck in the form of the Tarrasque. Its previously grand structures are now little more than dust-choked ruins, and its people are now only wandering ghosts
source: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Ninshabur
Suspicion: The Knights of the Western Start didn't simply "fade from history", they were ELIMINATED. A faction within the Knights of the Eastern Star (one led by at least one Veiled Master) saw them as rivals and had them wiped out so that the Knights of the Eastern Star (and the Apotheosis Almorain in particular) would be the ones to find the new ruler to bring about New Atlantis, one that would be squarely under the thumb of the Aboleth.
The conspiracy doesn't end there. The "leader" they are seeking may merely be a cover for their true goal: freeing the Tarrasque (or one of the other spawn of Rovagug) and then controlling it via unknown but incredibly power means that exceed most forms of mortal magic. (A Mythic Veiled Master? Perhaps...) The aboleth would then use the Spawn of Rovagug to wipe the Inner Sea clean of anything they didn't like and then start over again.
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I'm not one of them.
What? Why are you looking at me like that?
Obviously Ozmyn Zaidow's lieutenant is secretly a Veiled Master. Think about it: The Technic League could pose a real threat to the rest of the world if they ever managed to achieve a rigid hierarchy with clearly-defined methods of advancement — not even the Veiled Masters would necessarily have counters for what the League has gotten from the Silver Mount. Better, then, to have a spy in the organization who can steal technology and get away with possession of such, and who can poke at the hornet's nest when they seem to be getting too close to a Lawful power structure. After all, they felt Azlant was a big enough threat... imagine if Azlant had had railguns.
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One of my pet theories is that the Decemvirate are wearing the masks of Old-Mage Jtembe's Ten Magic WarriorsOh please let this be true.
That's easy: Mikaze.Close.
I can't help but want to place one somewhere withing the leadership Druma(and the Kalistrade) or somewhere in Razmir's hierarchy...
Liz I think so for sure. But what mystifies me is that their alignment is LE. So, to infiltrate different societies and organizations, they need undectable alignments and would have to learn to imitate other alignments and do it successfully. What I wonder if there Good aligned Veiled Masters...
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It's really remarkable how many candidates posted to this thread are NPCs specifically created by the Paizo staff.
Ones not emphasized too much as candidates are:
1. The Rune Lords - Not so much Xin. But, his appointed magistrates became the evil symbols of the Runes. I believe they were either Veiled Master conditioned or controlled.2. Geb. I think Geb is a Veiled Master Necromancer.
3. Hurricane King/Captain Kerdak Bonefist or Blood Queen of the Kuru
4. Blood Mistress Jakalyn of the Red Mantis cult
5. The Whole Umberal Court of Nidal (maybe mentioned).
I think these have had huge, crushing, long lasting evil influence over the Inner Sea.
Das Korvut. Its obvious if you think about it.
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Every member of the Decemvirate of the Pathfinder Society. What better place to operate against your greatest enemies (humans) than from within the city founded by their god and atop their first attempt at eradicating all of humanity? Sending agents all over the world to collect ancient artifacts? No scruples about what methods are used?
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Maybe the reason a lot of people who take the Test of the Starstone and die trying isn't always because the Stone or the Test kill them....
The Inner Sea World Guide says the dwarves that now inhabit the surface took Earthfall as a symbol for their need for their Quest for the Sky. Meaning before Earthfall dwarves were more or less still dwarvin' around deep in the earth, it was after Earthfall that the dwarves in the Darklands became duergar. (I don't know if this has anything to do with the drow, I haven't had the pleasure of playing Second Darkness yet.) Seeing as how the Starstone was responsible for Earthfall, and the Aboleths caused Earthfall, I feel like the Starstone might be a bit more risk than reward. The fact that two of its Ascended gods are good aligned does little to assuage my unease.
Anyone mention Artokus Kirran yet? (inventor of the Sun Orchid Elixir)
The guy figures out how to make normal people effectively immortal then vanishes into a vault where the only outside contact he has is with "blind, mute servants" who deliver the six vials of the elixir that no one else in Golarion appears to be able to replicate.
Unless it's not actually an elixir and is an alchemical variant of the aboleth mucous... if the only way to make it is to be an aboleth strung out on Sun Orchid juice, that would explain why nobody else has figured it out.-TimD
I second this heartily. There were a few rules regarding the Elixir. 1. Artokus was the only Thuvian allowed to consume it. 2. The buyers of the elixir had to out-bid and out-skuldugger each other in order to get it.
This is the perfect power expansion scheme for them. Let's say I'm Grand Prince of Taldor, Stavian III. Let's say I outbid some other shmucks and win the elixir and it is safely brought to me. At some point I consume it (am subject to any enchantments the Masters have imbued in the elixir and/or bottle) and become prime replacement fodder for another veiled master. A few of the VM's special qualities/abilities:
Runemastery: VM spells based on words/glyphs/Symbols are harder to resist/disable. (Inscribe the interior of the glass of the bottle, ruin everyone's Age.
Delayed Suggestion: (See previous for method of administration)
Consume Memory:
When a veiled master bites a creature, it consumes some of that creature's memories. The creature bitten must succeed at a DC 24 Fortitude save or gain one negative level. A veiled master heals 5 points of damage each time it grants a negative level in this way, and also learns some of the target creature's memories (subject to the GM's discretion). This is a mind-affecting effect. A veiled master can suppress this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based.
...
The entire bidding/skulduggery process is a self sustaining vetting for potential candidates for Veiled Master replacement. If someone outbids someone else, they're the better one to control. If a shipment is waylaid and a bandit drinks it (which would require serious effort as these caravans are among the best guarded in the world) then whoever had the power to take the elixir is also a worthy candidate. All the elixir has to do is subtly bring the victim to a place where a VM can replace them with no one seeing.
Not to mention the rule about no Thuvian being allowed to use the elixir. If they could, the humanoids might just start to notice when their neighbors start hiding urns filled with mysterious mucous, amirite?
And of course the most ominous tidbit from the VM's Bestiary entry:
.
Necro.
Since their first appearance in the Inner Sea Bestiary back in 2012, have the Veiled Masters ever shown up in any other PF product?
Doug M.
Actually, there is already one, and even disguising itself.