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Hopefully I can get some insight from other DM's on how to deal with this particular player.
I have a member of our group who has optimized his fighter far above and beyond any of the other 3 players, all of which were built around a more thematic and role play design. At level 12 the power disparity is more then a little significent. During battles he almost always kills anything before the other players get a chance to act, and most of the time the other players just have sit and watch him during combat. I could certainly up the stakes when it comes to encounters but in order to effectively challenge him, I would be required to put the rest of the group in a situation where they are very likely to be killed by whatever it is they are fighting.
When talking to him about his character he simply states that "its not his fault the other players chose not to be the battle god his character is to become." And when I introduce scenerios that involve non-combat situations I am told that I am being unfair to his character and not allowing him to do what he is there to do.... Walk through enemy lines and destroy all evil. Which almost always ends up in an argument as to why social skills even exist in the game at all, and how we're wasting time finding our way around a situation that he could easily cut his way through. Adding to this his constant intentional manipulation and arguing of rules (of which he does not actually own a copy of) and general disregard for some of the newer players as "wasting time with looking things up" I'm quite honestly at the point of booting him from the group all together.
All being said, I want to be sure that I'm not just frustrated as a GM at not being able to give a game that is fun and challenging for all involved. So any suggestions on how I might be able to build scenarios that can satisfy his lust for blood, and the others desire to play a game less focused on combat?
You have 4 players, how many are having fun most of the time?
Does it ever happen that "Mr. Fighter" and the other players are having fun at the same time?
If Mr.F is ruining the other players' fun, or ruining your fun, sometimes you just have to kick a player to the curb and walk on.
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On a completely different note, something fishy is going on if, at 12th level, a fighter "almost always kills anything before the other players get a chance to act."
Are you using a published adventure? If so, which one?
In as much detail as possible, what does each of the four characters look like?
The problem seems to be an out of game one. If what you say is true, the player seems to be lacking in respect for the other players. They want the game to revolve around them, and don't seem to take it well when when that does not happen.
I would have a serious 1 on 1 with the player. Explain to them that their attitude is a problem and if they don't change it, there will not be a spot at the table for them.
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Sorcerer / Cleric / Mystic Theurge multiclass
Rogue
Witch
Tried flying creatures.... Though the group (excluding this player) enjoyed it. This descended in yet another argument as to the validity of the rule regarding trip and flying creatures. And of course, I'm putting things in the game that he can't hit so therefore I am unfairly stacking the odds against him.
It seems as though I can only satisfy him, or the other players. If they're having fun, he is usually out of his element, which thus far causes an issue 100% of the time.
May I ask what exactly he is "battle god" of? Two-Handed melee? Archery? Two-Weapons? and maybe primary magic items, if he uses any.
More generally, if you felt you could handle it (it's not easy) you could "kidnap" said character and have him fight his way out somehow. The others would get the social interaction while at the same time he would get his fighting. Again though, that's splitting your attention and can be very difficult.
Perhaps get them into a tournament of some kind. Split them up and have each other fight other pre-made enemies gladiator style. Could offer all of them social interactions through other gladiators, gladiator fans, the gladiator owners, etc...
Either way, if the rest of the players are actually having fun, I never caught that they weren't, then there isn't much of a problem. If they don't have fun, I suppose you could either give him the option of rolling a less powered character or leading him to the door.
Personally if he argues over not being able to kill stuff while others are doing so, that's sort of hypocrisy. As the others can't kill stuff if he kills it all.
Anyways, good luck.
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@bfobar I've actually gone through the trouble of making an entire dungeon and BBEG at the end which specifically exploits his weaknesses while allowing the rest of the party to have distinct advantages throughout. This isn't to say he would be useless, just brutally nerfed. Thus forcing him to rely on the party or die.... I'm reluctant though to throw this at them with the fear of seeming like a vengeful GM.
They are not his supporting cast.
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Perhaps you should take a moment or two and describe how your building encounters in general so we can see if there are any particular issues. How many things, about what kind of CR's and very importantly what kind of loot. Gear is a huge thing for most PC's and be the cause of a lot of power creep.
Some of your solutions sound a bit unwarented from what little information I've got to go on. If you don't want him to play, just ask him to leave the group. Don't do something like attempting to radically nerf his character or build entire dungeons against him.
I think you share some of the blame as well as a DM. You described a situation where the players all want to roleplay past a harrowing situation, but the fighter just says "why bother, f!#~ it, let's fight." - since he can slice his way through ANY encounter.
You need to be better about putting up encounters he doesn't want to or can't fight through. That way, the characters can get their roleplaying in. Fighters have tons of weaknesses and you should build monsters/NPCs to exploit those, not monsters who are just mindless hack and slash beasts.
How are his saving throws? Can he avoid traps? Etc...
Why don't you just have monsters use spells or clever tricks on him to bring him down to size and more in line with the power level of the other people. You don't have to do it every single battle, but enough battles to give other players their time to shine.
If he complains, f@*! him. You're DM. The game doesn't revolve around just him.
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From what you've said, it seems pretty clear you just need to kick him out of the group.
You play RPGs for fun. If nobody else is having fun when he is (including you), and he's not having fun when everybody else is, then it's in everybody's best interest not to keep playing together. Since it's a clear case of one person being the outlier, he's the one who needs to go. Just don't invite him back.
Now, sometimes this is tough to do, if he's a friend otherwise. If he's not... just stop inviting him. But, if you have a relationship out of the game you want to maintain, you need to have a talk with him about how his style just doesn't match the style of the game, etc. It's probably impossible to do without hurt feelings, but really, do you and the others in the game want to keep playing given the situation you've described? He's already made it clear that he won't adapt his play style to the style that the rest of the group wants (by whining when you're not providing specifically for his play style). So, the only solution is to just stop gaming together.
@bfobar I've actually gone through the trouble of making an entire dungeon and BBEG at the end which specifically exploits his weaknesses while allowing the rest of the party to have distinct advantages throughout. This isn't to say he would be useless, just brutally nerfed. Thus forcing him to rely on the party or die.... I'm reluctant though to throw this at them with the fear of seeming like a vengeful GM.
Ok from a diffrent perspective. i am this kind of power gamer in my group. the others however are not. if my GM would go to those lengths i would be in awe and honostly i think he doese i just dont know probably. this Realy is a good option if your Fighter cant handle this he is not worthy of the group and you would have done evrything you can as a GM. this would mean you would have no option but boot him.
honostly i think you are dooing just fine! ask the other players if they see their experience reduced because of the conflict with this 1337 player
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Having hi kidnapped can go realy 1 of 3 ways depending on how the players act.
1) party goes to find him and he fights his way out.
2) party goes to find him he allies himself with the enemy and kills the party.
3) party ignores him and he fights his way out to get back to the group and kills them for not doing any thing about it.
An old friend of mine took wrought 3 when this happened to him trying to kill the party but i had to put his character in his place with the Command spell and a coup de grace. Shame really because i did not mind what he was doing untill he actively went after the party and even then the only reason i acted was because it was in a sense going after me.
Also a word of wisdom never single out people as a DM it will only cause more problems. If u dont like some thing tell the player and be upfront with him/her. They will change there ways and if they dont u have full right to kick him/her from ur group. When doing so have actual reason to do so other than him using the RAW to his advantage. If its like him/he disturbing game play, fun of other players, being down right rude, or any thing along those lines its fine to justify a kick.
What ever u do with him make sure to analyze the situation in all possible ways that u can and come up with a plan to for each to cover ur bases.
Let him know he has three options: change how he plays his character so that he gets along with the party, roll a new character that can get along with the party, or leave the group.
"My character wants to kill things" is not sufficient justification to ruin the roleplay for everyone else.
I don't like to beat up on the DM in these situations, but it is important to keep in mind that you do shoulder some of the blame. While I could reiterate some of Palainguy's points, I'll spare you the Parrot act.
Instead I'd just like to remind the OP that you're only telling half the story. And while I'm sure, given your account, he's no saintly player, his complaints may be genuine. He made a fighter for combat, a class with very little benefit outside of fighting. Sure he could try to "skill" or RP his way through your scenarios, but he can't since he's made to do one thing, that's everyone else's forte. All he wants you to put him in more combat scenarios, where he's best at. But from his perspective, you're not happy with him "winning" at combat and are purposely ruining his fun because everyone else isn't built for combat.
Now, I'm not saying this is actually the case. He sounds like a complete A-Hole, and I'd personally kick him from my group or make him retire his character and re-roll something more inline with the rest of the party. However I remind you to try and think from his perspective, just in case you want to try and work things out with this player.
I see various responses to this "problem," some I agree with some I don't.
First, being a GM is a delicate balancing act between combat, role-playing, and skill challenges. You need to figure out the magic mixture that is appropriate for YOUR group and give everyone a chance to shine.
Of course the fighter wants to fight, that's what he's built for. I love to RP, but my current character is like your fighter, he shines in battle. So my advice is to add some mooks/minions to the scene, allow him to go to town and feel like a god of battle sometimes. The other PC's also need a chance to shine, so you give them some scenarios where they have to actually think and RP stuff out or use their other abilities to get through skill challenges. You can design encounters where you incorporate everything into it, not just one of the elements.
Example: A maze with a gauntlet to run through, puzzles to figure out, traps to disable, various non-combat NPC's who are trapped in it to RP with, and other fun stuff. You will get everyone's attention not just the fighter who wants to fight. Allow the others to shine in their strong areas and have fun.
If the fighter PLAYER is just wanting to be a jerk and self-centered about things then it might be time to part ways with him and find someone else that you and your group has fun playing with. Life is too short to deal with jerks who ruin your fun.
It seems as though I can only satisfy him, or the other players. If they're having fun, he is usually out of his element, which thus far causes an issue 100% of the time.
It really looks like this guy just doesn't belong in your group. It's always hard, but sometimes you have to sacrifice a player to save the group.
I came here hoping for a nice thread about <insert random wizard> being OP and how the others in the group aren't quite up to par, blah blah blah, and had a pretty good bunch of potential solutions that have worked wonders for me in the past...
... But its this again.
Ok, here's the deal with problem players of this specific breed.
1) I talk to the other players and get their input on the whole isue just to make sure I'm not the bad guy and don't realize it. (It happens)
2) They get "the talking to". This is done in private to avoid any uneeded drama.
3) We wait and see what happens.
3a) Oh look! He's all better! Yay!!! (Granted this rarely happens. It CAN, but don't hold your breath)
3b) Oh look! He decided he wasn't having fun and stopped playing on his own. Yay!!! (Also not likely, but moreso than 3a)
3c) Oh look! The talk had about as much impact as throwing a ping pong ball at a charging rhino. See 4.
4) Its been fun, but you're out.
Never let a BAD player ruin everyone elses fun. Sometimes the best friends and even otherwise awesome human beings can be BAD Players. It happens. I know some. Great guys and gals, just not the tabletop RPG type.
Im amused, we just had a thread where I was accused of making this type of player up, and that they DONT actually exist.
Idea 1) magic mirror that creates an evil clone of yourself to battle with ( I once killed my party with this oops) but...have fun fighting yourself.
2) just keep playing the game, ignore anything he complains about, let him have fund with the stuff hes good at. If he gets mad enough about social stuff, roleplay or other things he may very well leave on his own.
3) put more mooks in fights than he can possibly kill in three turns, Just economy of action here. More mooks = something for the other players to fight, but won't feel out gunned.
4) anything the fighter fights mysteriously has extra HP. not to goof him, just to give him more to do.
We had a lordfeint 3b in our group.
He felt that his days in the gm chair represented a far superior breed of gm and essentially challenged anyone in the chair to do a sufficient job to please him...
After which he would
- create whatever most-horrrible-munchkin-murderhobo the system would allow,
- complain when the gm just escalated combat in an attempt to make the game 'interesting' for him,
- explain to the gm that he shouldnt escalate combat because he's spending too much time focusing on how much he was ruining the combat part of the game and completely forgetting about making the story interesting or trying harder to find ways to exploit his weaknesses instead of always attacking his strength (a valid point that I happen to share)
- completely murderhoboing (murderhoboing?) every plot device, named npc, tavern, windmill he could see, preventing any story from ever emerging.
We just told him it was clear he enjoyed the meta more than the game. He's not a bad guy. Just doesnt play well with others. He admits freely that he's an 4$$h$7 and that gaming just doesnt do it for him anymore... Turns out when we pointed it out to him he discovered that he ONLY enjoyed the meta and none of the game anymore. So he quit. Still a good guy.
Hopefully I can get some insight from other DM's on how to deal with this particular player (...) All being said, I want to be sure that I'm not just frustrated as a GM at not being able to give a game that is fun and challenging for all involved. So any suggestions on how I might be able to build scenarios that can satisfy his lust for blood, and the others desire to play a game less focused on combat?
Mmmmmhhh... dude, think in the fighty McFighter too, maybe he´s indeed a jerk, maybe not... but he do his job and research to make that build work as he wants. besides, if you (The GM) have not fun in a GAME... so, tell me, what are you playing for?
I have a power player once, and when i notice him playing so dirt twisting the rules to make his franky bbn, then at few encounters where the poor monsters do nothing but die, then i manage the next encounter and when he attacks one enemy, i ask him how many blows he launches, and describes: "you draw your sword, and kill the (put the monster´s name here), dont roll your damage, don´t need it... then, the pthers enemies try to run away but you shout and theyre hearts explodes!!"
few sessions with those kind of description he decides to stop to play an over power character at my tablede...
But, thinking about, after that, i speak with him, and say that i dont like play over power, and i dont want him playing something he dont want to... so, if he want i can Gming overpower but not with that group, because, that group was created for roleplaying not to WoW or something.
then, he want to learn how to play rol, and i have two parties at my table now, one overpower with role play (with him playing well and learning) and the other, with two friends of us with the overpower (i has to say, i learn so much playing OP, still dont like it, but i get fun learning how to play that kind of games, and how i can manage it without feel frustrating at same point...)
but all of us are friends since childhood, i dont realy know how do you create your group... in my place, if we dont be friends, we can´t paly togheter!!
Players like this are a cancer. Give the guy one more chance to share the spotlight with the other players. If he continues to be disruptive, selfish, and from what it sounds like a boorish bully; kick him out of the group. I had to do this with my group. Gaming is awesome again, just as it should be.
id make a bbeg with ok save or die spell and use it on him and just enjoy the rage quit. usually playing support classes i enjoy making people gods but when they get like that i hate there attitude i like the problem solving and rp outside of combat and i have a guy that pretty much growls when we take too long. and i draw it out if he gives us attitude. oh you want to leave? my bard starts a concert.
its like is it really that fun if all the game is is roll your dice.... good job its dead... 5 steps roll your dice.... look its dead... repeat as needed.
its D&D a table top RPG not dynasty warriors
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I must say, that despite the numerous bad aspects I have mentioned here.... That I do want him in the game. For what it's worth he is the most dedicated player in the group. He has yet to miss a single game and is truly passionate about the combat when it happens (every gory detail explained to great lengths).
I will certainly speak with him again should some of the more group related issues continue after our last conversation. Not much can really be done if that continues.
However I greatly appreciate the input regarding where to look within my encounters and to help handle a player of this type. Hopefully I'll be able to make changes that everyone can enjoy.
@foolsjourney ~ The first thing we said to him when he joined is that our group plays more to the RP then combat. And he has seen instances where XP is given for excellent role play.
I somwhat feel his pain.. I build characters most optimized for combat while afew of my grp build characters more to an idea, which often means they are ineffective in combat.. We run AP's so while RP often happens, so does combat.. This puts me in a similar situation of killing the baddies most of the time.. I think not only should you have a talk about him toning down, you should talk with your other players as well and ask that in the future they build characters that can actually work in combat as well as out.. Then they too could share in the spotlight.. This also allows u to scale the combat without fear of killing the weaklings.. Just my 2C. Good Luck...
Tried flying creatures.... Though the group (excluding this player) enjoyed it. This descended in yet another argument as to the validity of the rule regarding trip and flying creatures. And of course, I'm putting things in the game that he can't hit so therefore I am unfairly stacking the odds against him.
This guy is an insult to power gamers. I like optimized characters, but it takes all the challenge out of it if, at level 12, you expect that nobody is going to fly... or have greater invisibility... or use dimension door... or use compulsions...