Hey there everyone, it's me again. I was recently invited to join a game that I'm very interested in participating in, since my other game fell through and I now have no other obligations, I said yes. He gave me the lowdown and the party set-up as it is right now and I was looking for some advice on what class to choose and what particular role to fill.
It's a party of three, I make the forth.
We have an Elf Cleric 3, a Halfling Rogue 1/Wizard 2 and a Half-Orc Barbarian 1/Fighter 1.
I'll be starting at level two, according to the DM. I have some limited resources.
It is point buy (15) and races are core only. He allows all classes, feats, traits and archetypes from the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic.
Generally speaking, the very basics of the main roles seem to be covered. The Cleric is the party healer, the Halfling is the skill-monkey for all intents and purposes, and the Half-Orc is a sword-and-board guy and acts as a tank.
We're mostly missing a primary damage dealer, if even that, because from what I've heard the Half-Orc hits pretty hard himself and the Cleric's been known to mess some enemies up as well.
I was leaning most heavily towards Ranger, but what do you guys think?
Bards are the grease that fit into any party.
You would have supplemental magic to fill in opportune times when the mage or cleric is holding back his/her spells and resources.
You would have abilities that improve everyone's combat ability and make them feel stronger
You would have healing abilities in a pinch when the cleric is downed or the party is fragmented.
You can try to build yourself to be competent enough in a fight to help a little and provide a flank buddy for the rogue or Barbarian.
Plus... travelling is boring... a story-telling entertainer is worth it.
Don't be a full Wizard or Sorcerer - you'll run the risk of outshining the Halfling.
Ranger wouldn't be bad, and a Bard might be interesting too.
The problem with the rogue is that he doesn't participate directly in combat, he's more of a character who sets things up for the rest of the party, utilizing items like acid flasks and traps and stuff more than his sneak attack. I think he chose the first level in rogue because he didn't know what else to be, and decided later he didn't quite care for it.
Bard's a good suggestion and it's been a while since I've played one, though, so I'll definitely give it some consideration. In the meantime, I'm still open to suggestions.
Inquisitor or Paladin. Some back up healing and a tank. Party buffing, too.
See, archer Ranger was my first pick. But from what I understand, to make archery effective you have to be pretty feat heavy and I'm not sure what all to grab. Obviously Point-Blank and Precise-Shot, but after that it starts getting a little more complicated than that.
I think a witch would be a good fit, but i love casters.
If you wanted to do some ranged damage, an inquisitor could fill that role nicely as well.
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What's the story with the rogue/wizard? They seem to be the odd one out of those 3 - do they plan on going mostly rogue, mostly wizard? It sounds like they may not have a great plan, which you could make up for.
If they do have a good plan, then Joseph Collins really has the best tip of the comments above. You don't seem to have someone who's effective at range, so a ranger, or gunslinger, or alchemist are all good choices.
Less so with a magus, witch, inquisitor or paladin - these are all decent choices, but only because you could play *anything* here.
The rogue mostly took the class I think for all the skills it offers, he's pretty heavily skill oriented and doesn't have a major combat role at the moment. He's going to focus on wizard throughout the rest and said that he will be grabbing more combat oriented spells in the near future.
I was thinking Ranger because the added potential of a second stealth character can help supplement the Halfling's because he's going to become less and less focused on sneaking at higher levels (I'm assuming) so it's good to have some variety.
A big problem I have with the Ranger are his spells. IMO, they're not particularly great. I was thinking if I do go Ranger, I'd pick the Skirmisher and Infiltrator archetypes, which would replace Favored Terrain and Spells.
I don't see losing Favored Terrain as a disadvantage since the GM has expressed that we'll be traveling a lot to various places of vastly different scopes, climates and cultures so it would be difficult to choose an appropriate Favored Terrain anyways.
a druid could be an interesting choice- you'd be back up for everyone... decent skills and some control/damage spells to back up the wizard, some heals to back up the cleric, and an animal companion and ok combat ability (with wild shape in a few levels) to back up the barb.
a ranger wouldn't be bad either. you could focus mostly on archery to deal ranged damage (which seems like it might be lacking) and pick up just a couple melee feats for when you need them.
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You can really play anything you want with that set-up.
I would play the Crazy Cat Lady. Lion Shaman for spontaneous cat summoning, take a one level dip into Monk of the Empty Hand to get Throw Any Cat and Flurry of Cats.
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I would play the Crazy Cat Lady. Lion Shaman for spontaneous cat summoning, take a one level dip into Monk of the Empty Hand to get Throw Any Cat and Flurry of Cats.
HAHAHA! yes, ignore everything else that i or anyone else said and do this. you might even be able to get 1d3 at a time from Summon Minor Ally...
ok, realistically that's probably not a functional longterm build (although, with the lion familiar and Wis to AC while wild shaping...) but i'm totally going to use that for the next one shot i play in. lol.
You can really play anything you want with that set-up.
I would play the Crazy Cat Lady. Lion Shaman for spontaneous cat summoning, take a one level dip into Monk of the Empty Hand to get Throw Any Cat and Flurry of Cats.
Flurry in a dip is terrible and Throw Anything (including cats) can be taken as a feat without sacrificing a level of druid progression.
Cats usually don't like being thrown though.
Well if you are optimizing for CPR (cats per round) it is a feat-starved build, because normally you'd need Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Throw Anything along with Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning, so that would be level 9 at the earliest.
Taking a monk level gives you Throw Anything and gives you the equivalent of Rapid Shot by using Monk of the Empty Hand to flurry with improvised ranged weapons, and then you can have all the feats you need by level 4.
You can really play anything you want with that set-up.
I would play the Crazy Cat Lady. Lion Shaman for spontaneous cat summoning, take a one level dip into Monk of the Empty Hand to get Throw Any Cat and Flurry of Cats.
Flurry in a dip is terrible and Throw Anything (including cats) can be taken as a feat without sacrificing a level of druid progression.
Cats usually don't like being thrown though.
Well if you are optimizing for CPR (cats per round) it is a feat-starved build, because normally you'd need Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Throw Anything along with Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning, so that would be level 11 at the earliest.
Taking a monk level gives you Throw Anything and gives you the equivalent of Rapid Shot by using Monk of the Empty Hand to flurry with improvised ranged weapons, and then you can have all the feats you need by level 5.
But unless you're fighting one very short combat per day your real limit is going to be cats/day not throws/round and taking a non-druid level reduces the number of cats you can summon per day. You can't summon cats at all with SNA 1-2. At low levels you won't have cats to throw and at high levels you'll start getting iteratives to throw them with and will have more open feats to take rapid shot.
It's a similar problem to the theorycraft alchemists that throw all their daily bombs in one round and then twiddle their thumbs for the rest of the day because they're so dex/int minmaxed they can't do anything else aggressive even with mutagen.
The main gear for the build is a sack of cats. THAT is where your cats/day come from. SNA helps in that the cats you summon actually fight for you, but you will also heavily rely on purely projectile cats for when you don't have spare spells (which is why getting Throw Anything and Flurry of Cats is necessary.)
Unfortunately due to the rules on improvised weapons, by RAW you cannot have a masterwork cat, and thus cannot enchant your +1 cat. I believe they are fixing this in their next book, Cats of Golarion.
Unfortunately due to the rules on improvised weapons, by RAW you cannot have a masterwork cat, and thus cannot enchant your +1 cat. I believe they are fixing this in their next book, Cats of Golarion.What if you bought a set of +1 cat collars or collars with +1 bells on them? You might have to take Cat Mastery tho so that the enhancement bonus from the cat's collar can be treated as an enhancement bonus to your flurry of cats attack and damage rolls.
can you apply magic fang to 50 pieces of natural cat-munition? i suppose, really they're thrown weapons so you'd have to enchant them individually... i've got it! figure out your max cats/round and then get that many AoMF's with +1 returning on them! no, that's gonna be pricey though... wait... the cats are natural weapons... that you're attacking with... so, if you just got an AoMF for yourself with +X and returning, it should apply to the natural attacks you make with the cats... right?
can i just say that the very fact that we're having a semi-serious discussion about the viability/optimization of the crazy cat lady build its pretty much the greatest thing in the history of the internet
edit: @OP- i hope you got the advice you needed cause the chances of getting anymore non-CCL (Crazy Cat Lady) advice seem to be getting smaller by the post, lol
I love this thread. :-)
I'd take shuri-cats. They count as ammunition. And you can buy them in stacks!
Can't you apply those auto reload spells from Ultimate combat for a cat-sling-staff for halfling-catfolk?
You are gonna laugh, but in that group, I'd take a straight up Fighter, and concentrate on archery. Rangers aren't great overall, as they aren't as campaign responsive as Fighters, who get a feat with every level. OR, go for a Sorcerer and just blast opponents with either screw em up or damage spells.
Might consider a Rogue, since the guy playing the halfling says he's gonna stick with Wizard from now on. Better yet, ask if you can check out the other player's sheets, so you can pick out skills nobody else has or will want to increase given their intent. Then, if you really want to endear yourself to them, talk the warrior into taking Outflank eventually with you, and buy some healing potions to revive the Cleric when he goes down. Grab some ranks in Heal, and some of those Healer's Kits and Leeching Kit, perhaps some Bloodblock and some Alchemist Fire. This is precisely what my goblin NPC Rogue did, so the other players love him despite his pranks and general lunacy.
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Obviously you guys aren't taking this seriously enough.
The OP's best solution is to have the cat collars fitted with Ioun Stones, set them whirling round her head-as many as you like because Ioun Stones, like cats, are slotless-and then the CCL can throw a number of cats equal to her number of attacks+1 (for Rapid Shot), without wasting a feat on Quick Draw. Because, RAW, I don't think you can draw cats as a free action like you can with shuriken.
Really, if you guys aren't going to put serious thought into this then you're wasting the OP's time.
the problem with +1 dancing returning collars is that they would be super expensive... they'd count as AoMF's so i think you'd have to drop returning just to make it a viable item (plus you wouldn't really need it if they were dancing- wait, can you put dancing on a thrown weapon? either way) that makes the collars like 100k each. getting yourself the one amulet would (theoretically) give all your ranged natural cattacks the enhancement bonus and returning for as low as 16k (for +1 returning).
Because, RAW, I don't think you can draw cats as a free action like you can with shuriken.
with druid levels you'll have handle animal- couldn't you teach the cats a trick to draw themselves?
Cavalier for the win!
Emissary archetype go mobile!
A big problem I have with the Ranger are his spells. IMO, they're not particularly great. I was thinking if I do go Ranger, I'd pick the Skirmisher and Infiltrator archetypes, which would replace Favored Terrain and Spells.
Ranger spells don't look flashy compared to wizard spells, but they're great for rangers.
1st level - Gravity Bow makes your 1d8 bow deal 2d6 damage.2nd level - Versitile Weapon punches through all sorts of DR.
3rd level - Instant Enemy grants +6 attack & +6 damage!
4th level - Animal Growth can make your animal companion absolutely monstrous.
I don't see losing Favored Terrain as a disadvantage since the GM has expressed that we'll be traveling a lot to various places of vastly different scopes, climates and cultures so it would be difficult to choose an appropriate Favored Terrain anyways.
I agree about the favored terrains. I'd rather have the Darkvision or whatever other powers you pick.
This Guide to Archery Rangers will help you with feat selection.
Switch hitter ranger would be the best to augment any combat. The archer bard/ arcane archer would be great in and out of combat. Or you could throw all caution to the wind and play a zen archer monk and then just wait till immortality kicks in. The monk will eventually outshine everybody else in defense and offense which will either make people jealous, or use you as a get out of TPK free card. The bard may be the overall most fun character for you at higher levels. And definitely round out the party over all. And the switch hitter ranger provides probly the best instant gratification.
Either one you play, you want to stay near the wiz and draw Aggro off of him. Talk to the others and see what they would like to see played.
Lastly, Druids would work well and can be a fun challenge through all levels as well.
Wait, just where would one store the cats for quick and easy tossing? You'd need some sort of extradimensional holsters, one on each hip. And they'd need air to breathe somehow....
I got it! A Handy Haversack with a Bottle of Air in it! Then you could store LOTS of cats for easy retrieval.
Wait, just where would one store the cats for quick and easy tossing? You'd need some sort of extradimensional holsters, one on each hip. And they'd need air to breathe somehow....
I got it! A Handy Haversack with a Bottle of Air in it! Then you could store LOTS of cats for easy retrieval.
that's why i suggested the +1 Returning AoMF... that way you'll only need like half a dozen cats and they'll all come flying back to you at the start of your turn
But, why would ANYONE want a flying cat coming back once you threw it? That cat is gonna be ticked. Better to just throw it away!
I also think you should get Flaming on the AoMF. Also make sure you apply poison to the cats claws! Nothing beats throwing flaming poisoned returning cats at your enemies!
Naw, that wouldn't work. Cats withdraw their claws back into their paws, and frequently lick their paws. You'd have a dead cat if you put poison on its claws. Also, they aren't enough to do any serious damage. If a cat ticks someone off enough, they won't give a damn how much it hisses and tries to scratch at them, that cat is dead meat.
That's why the cats all have Rogue levels. No one expects a cat thrown into their face, so they'll be flatfooted and then the cat wrecks them with all the d6's.
A big problem I have with the Ranger are his spells. IMO, they're not particularly great. I was thinking if I do go Ranger, I'd pick the Skirmisher and Infiltrator archetypes, which would replace Favored Terrain and Spells.
I don't see losing Favored Terrain as a disadvantage since the GM has expressed that we'll be traveling a lot to various places of vastly different scopes, climates and cultures so it would be difficult to choose an appropriate Favored Terrain anyways.
Sounds to me like you want to play a ranger. That's a great choice, and I can't see anyone in that party pulling their hair out and screaming, "Why the $@#& did you decide to play a ranger?"
Bard or inquisitor would work, too, but if ranger is what tickles your fancy, go for it, whatever flavor you like.
The switch hitter is great. Take the free archery stuff, and bust out the greatsword for melee. Solid way to go. You won't be the ultimate archer or meleer, but you wouldn't suck at either, and with all the other things a skirmisher or infiltrator can do, you won't have any trouble finding a way to contribute.
I'd also go for one of the ranged damage dealers:
1) Archery Ranger - Specialize in Archery of course, can switch hit.
2) Archer Fighter - More feats means you could even switch-hit pretty ez w/ this too.
3) Zen Archer - I hear a lot of people think they are even OP
4) Inquisitor - Get free teamwork feats and is versatile.
5) Bard w/ Archery - Cast spells to help buff party members and use archery from afar to put the hurt on them.
6) Divine Hunter Paladin - A paladin w/ a bow is pretty cool too.
7) Alchemist - Just toss some big bombs at them.
8) Gunslinger - Some say they are OP, some hate them, some love them.
Since the class is a cheesefest already, I wonder if there's a way to combine throwing housecats with an Alchemist?
Maybe get the cats all hopped up on catnip? Oo, douse them in lantern oil and set them afire, THEN throw them?!!!
Play whatever you like, especially if you like Rangers or Bards.
Since the class is a cheesefest already, I wonder if there's a way to combine throwing housecats with an Alchemist?
Maybe get the cats all hopped up on catnip? Oo, douse them in lantern oil and set them afire, THEN throw them?!!!
They could drink Extracts of Resist Energy before they're light on fire so you won't have to worry about training new cats after each combat.
What if they had Eldritch Heritage and used it to get a human familiar? What if your character is the shared Familiar of all the cats he throws?
But, how would you get them to light on fire if all the cats have fire resistance 5?
