Fire Snakes

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111 posts. Alias of mark brown 850.


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My friend and I whipped up a couple level 10 occult classes each to try out a couple combats. We picked random combats at CR10 and CR12. The CR10 was a young green dragon and a stone giant. The CR12 was 3 bulettes and 3 chimeras. We generally did very well in both combats. Only the breath weapons and the bulette pounces did much damage. Now for more specific thoughts and feedback per class.

Geokineticist: My friend built him to be a melee kineticist tank using kinetic blade/whip with weapon finesse (his interpretation was that the whip was finessable since it functions like blade which included light weapons). He also had the Pushing substance infusion, but the monsters we were up against were very hard to bull rush. He proved to be our highest damage dealer (other than save or sucks) and was VERY tanky with 7 dr/adamantine (2 burn for 2 extra dr). He also had the water defense for the shield to boost his ac even higher (he was sitting at 31). He would use Ride the Blast to get into melee then stay there using move actions to avoid the burn to pull out the whip. He had combat reflexes to make use of the whip AoO's (of which there was only one, but it landed!). The concentration checks to use melee blast options seems like a completely unnecessary penalty. Additionally, he thinks that when using the melee blast options, that kineticists should be able to make all of their iterative attacks when full-attacking (he was using move actions to avoid burn, so it was moot in these fights). His blasts were averaging around 25ish damage per round as long as he made his concentration checks. He did not have combat casting, but he did have a +2 to concentration trait.

Occultist: My friend built him with Abjuration (cloak), Conjuration (compass because there are no summon spells), Illusion (ring), Evocation (wand...of CLW, lol), and Transmutation (belt and weapon). He put 6 of his mental points in his belt for +4 dex, 3 into his weapon for the shocking property, 6 into his wand for blasts (ended up not using them), and 4 in his compass for heals and teleports (2 used on healing). He was built as an archer with some support spells and a few blast options through his implement. He functioned reasonably well as an archer and was able to keep up reasonably well with the Geo's dpr. Once things got a bit hairy in the second fight, he used Greater Invisibility and dropped into a healing role while the Geo tanked up the bulettes full attacks. My friend really liked how the occultist played, but he did not like that spending points from his implements reduced the resonant powers which made him very reluctant to spend them.

Mesmerist: I felt like the Mesmerist is pretty railroaded on options. The tricks were neat but need some work. I was able to use my Mirror image trick to good effect. If you are looking for single target control, this is where it is found. It does need the Stare ability to be greatly buffed. I feel like this should be more of a core feature of the class.

Psychic: I feel like the Psychic has great potential. With some expanded Disciplines and a little work on the amplifications they could be pretty cool. I think the Disciplines need a kick in the pants a bit. I played the Discipline of Abomination- This has great flavor. The few measly rounds per day that you can be your Dark Half was very cool, but the amount of time you can stay in that form needs to be greatly increased. I like some of the Psychic spells, although I feel that Psychic Crush is a bit over powered against low will targets. It is a complete save or suck spell that ruins fights at mid levels and up. I also feel like mind thrust is a good spell despite it's low damage potential compared to other spells. Also I do not see the need for all of the spells to have so many versions. Why not just have the base spell scale with level like most spells? Overly complicated in my opinion. With only a few single target blasts and some control spells I feel the spell list or Disciplines needs a lot of work here.


I had him wearing a cursed amulet that is slowly turning the party wizard into an undead version of the mariner! It has been awesomely fun so far!


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I have had a few notable Sahaugin wearing them. I then had a crown worn by Krellort act as a focus which allowed messages to be sent between the wearer of the crown and the necklace wearers.

This really helped my party since they are on multiple ships. I ruled that it did not take their "neck" slot.


Non-mythic with the same general build is an amazing difference.

He would have +51(static dmg)
or +153dmg on a crit
add 20(25 if crit) damage from a greater vital strike falchion.

So his normal Greater Vital strikes would be hitting for around= 71dmg
And his Crit Greater Vital Strike would be hitting for= 178dmg

So the Mythic version increases his damage by a multiplication factor of 10. And he can do it MORE than once a round as a Mythic character.

EDIT- This is the same character as above without any mythic feats.


Artanthos wrote:
Venomblade wrote:
Mythic power attack- +4.5dmg per 4 levels at level 20 it is +27dmg this is also DOUBLED before the crit multiplier takes effect so it is 216dmg on crit
Quote:

Power Attack (Mythic)

Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3
bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your
base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter,
the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2.
In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled
on a critical hit, before it’s multiplied by the
weapon’s critical multiplier.
You can expend one use of mythic power
when you activate Power Attack to ignore the
penalties on melee attack rolls and combat
maneuver checks for 1 minute.
Mythic Power Attack makes no mention of increasing damage when using a weapon two-handed. I interpreted this to mean that the bonuses for one-handed usage were increase to equal two-handed usage.

Jason states in This Thread

This increase does apply to the 50% off hand and 150% two handed applications.

I will look to clarify this a bit.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer


Mythic saves... and gear and friends would help immensely. He also has PLENTY of feats leftover still to improve his weaknesses. His will save will be closer to the low 20's.


ok-Here is the breakdown that we came up with. We started with a fighter focused on the Falchion. Fighter at level 20 gets to add +1 to crit multiplier. We will assume the fighter started with an 18 strength.

18
5 levels
6 belt
10 mythic
2 mythic feat
5 tome
46 strength total for a +18 or +36dmg(144 dmg on crit) with the 3rd level overhand chop ability from two handed fighter archetype. DBL strength bonus.

We will also assume the fighter has a +5 weapon at this level.(+20dmg on crit)

Feats
Improved critical- threat 15-20
Mythic improved crit- +1 multiplier on crits (x4 on crits as fighter with a falchion)

power attack
Mythic power attack- +4.5dmg per 4 levels at level 20 it is +27dmg this is also DOUBLED before the crit multiplier takes effect so it is 216dmg on crit

Vital strike
improved VS
Greater VS
Mythic VS

Weapon Specialization +2
Greater WS +2
Mythic WS-dbls it+4 (+8 total/+32 on crit)

Now we get a crit Mythic vital strike and we add then multiply all of the above(static)

+144 strength
+20 magic weapon bonus
+216 power attack
+32 Weapon specialization

So a normal crit is 412dmg

1648 STATIC damage on a crit Vital strike.

No weapon dmg roles, no big buffs, only a x2 weapon to start. This easily gets closer to 2000dmg with buffs and weapon rolls(which you can maximize) or a x3 or x4 weapon.

This is just a quick breakdown. I do not have my book handy. I am sure I can get MUCH HIGHER numbers if I really sat down and thought about it. As a player and a DM I would NEVER create a player like this. It is ridiculous and awesome. It would however be horribly boring to play and would ruin the fun for everyone else at the table.

Edit-With Fleet warrior- you can do this before or after moving your full speed too!


Sebastion you are correct. Friend and I were running the numbers as a level 20 fighter using a falchion. He would be Vital striking more than once every round for over 20 rounds. His crits were around 1600 dmg. Insane!


That Tarrasque art looks amazing!


Lord Snow wrote:
This makes me wonder about something only vaguely related - how does a monster become mythic? PCs achieve that by doing something exceptional. How do monsters?

Any way the DM wants them to become Mythic!


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We are getting so close! How about some spoilers!


You could also go the Natural attack route as well. That would really fit the pirate them pretty perfect.

Maybe be a Teifling or Tengu and take the alternate racial trait to get 2 claw attacks. Then you can take the fiend totem rage powers to gain a gore attack, and also take the bite rage power for extra goodness.

Jump over to the other ship and rip everyone/thing apart with your bare hands!

-Venom


Weapon specialization, weapon focus and power attack all have to do with how you are wielding that weapon. How much STRENGTH you put behind the attack. How skilled you are in it's use. There is absolutely no reason Spell perfection would have any effect on how well you WIELD the weapon you create.

It would absolutely increase the DC's if you have spell focus. It will also double the bonus from spell penetration.

If you can somehow convince your DM to let these things benefit from spell perfection. He should also double the penalty from power attack since it is a numerical value.

My 2 cents..

Venom


This Adventure looks more amazing with every announcement!


August cannot get here soon enough!


Hey Redneck,

As stated above The Forgotten Realms is a 3.5 Wizards of the Coast world.

The Pathfinder Universe is called Golarion. If you search the forums you can find maps, forums ect.

Good luck! Carrion Crown rocks!


Any eta on getting it on Android.

I have a whole table full of people that all have Android tablets that will throw money at you when you make us the app!

Very surprised you guys went with apple first when Android has so much more of the market.

Did Steve Jobs leave you something in his will....../grumble grumble

Just Kidding, love Hero Labs!


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Necklaces of fireballs are completely awesome for the price as well! First off they do NOT take up your neck slot. They also make AWESOME ambushes.

You can place a necklace down in the middle of the ambush and when the targets are in range cast your own fireball/scorching ray/flaming sphere ect... It get's a saving throw +7 or the entire thing explodes!

The big necklace (8700gp or crafted for 4350) would explode for 58d6!

You could always put the necklace on a summoned creature or something as well for some fun shenanigans!


I like the idea that it knocks you 10 feat backwards. After a few shots you either have to use your move action to get back into touch AC range or start using Grit to increase your touch AC range. This would really balance out the action economy of a flying Hackbut wielder. Perhaps also get the "prone" condition!


It will be ugly if he comes across a paladin though! Muhahaha....


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Evil DM in question here!

Bloodwort really really loved this character! Imagine the General from Planet of the apes with an eye-patch and undead, it is awesome! and I had the wonderful idea of having him become Cursed. I believe I told him he figured out that he was cursed. He just has no idea how or why. The party has had some GREAT evil interactions with each other and bringing "Rex" back was priceless!

He came back During the most important fight in Skulls and Shackles book 1. One of the other pc's thought he was there to kill her! It was awesome!

I have been letting the pc's play at max hit points, and I have not been maxing the monsters hps. When all the players are playing evil or neutral they do not always work together and may inadvertently cause each other to have certain hardships resulting in encounters being MUCH MUCH harder than they should be.

I also told him that he cannot die(he forgot but I reminded him at lunch today) He regenerates 1 hp/min no matter what(barring disruption/disintegrate) So even if he goes down in combat he will not die. Part of the curse. It may suck for a while if he goes down early, but he normally kills/disables fast enough it won't matter.

Also with his great AC at this level he is near impossible to hit anyways.

Luckily I have thought of a way for him to get his old con score switched to his charisma score through some evil ritual they may or may not be found on some sort of treasure map. I don't just want to switch it for free as I see the ability to have some fun story/adventure with it. After all the Shackles would be an awesome place to be an immortal evil undead monk pirate.

I offered the same deal to another character that died at the same time but he was not interested. So I ha to change the curse to something that only affected Rex!

So far Skulls and Shackles has been an absolute blast to run and we are all thoroughly enjoying it!


An interesting idea.

I guess it depends on how much level disparity you like in the party. If someone is on Slow and someone on fast by mid levels you will have about a 3 level separation 4 levels buy then end. That is if they all receive the same amount of XP. If there are side adventures it could get a lot worse.

I think 3-4 levels between players is pretty significant and I could imagine it being rather difficult to balance encounters to challenge the higher level players and not kill the lower.


I have an Oracle of Life that has spell perfection on Cure Critical Wounds. This always allows me to cast a Quickened healing spell every round without ruining my economy of action. Also while out of combat I always cast it as an Echoing spell so I get to cast twice as many! If you take magical lineage Cure critical you can add the Reach Spell metamagic too and throw all of your heals from close range!

She spends the rest of her time casting control spells! It is a complete blast to play!

While that is not a 1st or 2nd level spell it might give you another look at it from a different perspective.


When you get higher level and can cast Holy Aura(best buff in the game) It only grants spell resistance to evil spells or spells cast by evil creatures! It also grants +4 deflection, protection from evil and any evil creature that hits you with a melee attack needs to make a fort save or go blind.

Otherwise spell resistance is a total trap in the earlier levels and I would not recommend it unless you are able to heal yourself.


Excellent! totally using this!


By no means have any of my adventurers felt this AP is easy at all. I have allowed all of my players to have MAX hit points every level and we just had our 5th character death. They have not even Mutinied yet. Still in the first book.

I have thrown in tons of healing potions and a few wands with a little healing left on them.

It has been one of the deadliest we have run yet(next to Council of Thieves).

Now that Sandara is around again I will have her accompany them everywhere as the party healer. Hopefully that will help.


I also think you should get Flaming on the AoMF. Also make sure you apply poison to the cats claws! Nothing beats throwing flaming poisoned returning cats at your enemies!


Anyone have any thoughts on a Druid/Sorcerer? I could have the Empyreal bloodline and have Wisdom as my 1 casting stat? Can you think of any fun concepts for this?


The black raven wrote:
Familicide

Now that is Mythic!


So let's say I want to try out this idea of Bard/Sorcerer. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to take crossblooded Orc/dragon and still take the eldritch heritage feat for the Primal bloodline arcana? That would give me +3 dmg per die on my element of choice.

I will also have great party utility with the bard.


Even if you don't want to go straight ninja you can still take vanishing trick and the greater version. You would first have to take the feat for Ki.

A few days ago one of my GM's through a Antipaladin/Ninja at us! Holy crap that was a nightmare. He used smite on a bunch of good pc's and went invisible on us all the time. It was pretty awesome!


An Aboleth had the ability to enslave people in 3.5 but it looks like it no longer has it in pathfinder. You could still use it though. It is cr7
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/aboleth.htm

Ninja'd!


Atarlost, I know it would not be the "best" class choice. I am really just curious to see what numbers I could pull. I will probably not play this character. This is strictly a "What if" situation that me and some friends want to play test.


I think I love the idea of Paladin/Sorcerer with oath of vengeance. Being able to add smite damage to all of my single target rays on my smite targets would be pretty awesome! I also like the idea of the Oracle/Sorcerer. Charisma to AC would just rock!


I appreciate the feedback and I do agree that putting Sorcerer/"Wizard" together is not the most optimized character. The more I have thought about putting the two together the more I have wanted to try it. I believe that with the correct build a Sorcerer/Wizard could completely destroy higher CR encounters and I was really hoping for some insight or clever ideas for what this build could look like.

I have read a few blaster builds where dipping wizard for a level or 2 to optimize damage was largely thought of as the best idea. I wanted to see what we could come up with if it was a straight gestalt Wizard/Sorcerer.

We have a while before we actually play this campaign and we have been play-testing a few builds. I have a few ideas that I have already come up with that synergize well together. So this is more of a "Can I build a arcane blaster that melts faces using gestalt?"

I have already built:

Staff Magus/Monk Flurry and Cast every round is delicious.
Gunslinger/Inquisitor Synergizes well and does tons of damage.
Synthesist Summoner/Paladin This guy is a just awesome.

We have also tested:
Witch/Rogue
Barbarian/Druid
Monk/Paladin

These are all as great as they sound. I was hoping to try testing out something a little more focused to see what happens.

I appreciate all of your feedback!


I love this!


Hey everyone,

I will be playing in a Gestalt home-brew campaign soon and I would like to create the Ultimate Arcane blasting machine!

I was hoping for some advice/ideas. My thought process is that I can completely prepare all of my Sorcerer spells as Direct Damage and still have plenty of spells for utility from the Mage. I will have a lot of bonus feats to get metamagics early as well.

We will be starting with a 20 point buy.

I have a few ideas already.

A Crossblooded Draconic/Orc bloodline sorcer with the eldritch heritage feat: Primal / Admixture Wizard.
This would give me +3 dmg per die and I can change the element of my spells to suit the situation. Also being Gestalt would more than make up for the lost spells.

I am also considering a Sage bloodline Sorcerer / Divination Wizard. This would only rely on Intelligence and my initiative would rock.

I would LOVE to hear what everyone's ideas are!


I agree with Ecaterina Ducaird mostly. If my table dropped a 10 round timestop I would start a timer and give them say 5-10 minutes to have everything they wanted to do done. Then ready or not time would start flowing normally again.

If they spent an hour discussing strategy that is just pure unadulterated meta-gaming and I would not allow it.

A few quick ideas/orders should be shouted out between the affected members then a few castings and place yourself in the desired location and go!


Tels wrote:
I'm rather disappointed by the Amazing Initiative change. I was hoping you'd keep it balanced between martial and caster classes, but as it stands, you just gave a major boost to casters who get more use out of standard actions than martials do. There will, of course, be exceptions, like a Vital Strike character could now make 2 Vital Strikes in a round. I also pity the GM that has a 19th level Two-Handed Fighter Archetype in his party. But other than those two, you'll be seeing casters firing off two spells a around, and 3 spells a round at higher levels. Just for example, a Quickened Mythic Fireball followed by a Chain Lightning and another Chain Lightning just for kicks could easily demoralize or possibly even kill a party or BBEG and his minions.

Took the words right out of my mouth! I was thinking the exact same thing.


I would wait them out. They will start to suffocate soon!


Ssalarn wrote:

"If a subdomain ability calls for a saving throw, the DC of the save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the character's cleric level + her Wisdom modifier."

When the ability does not specifically call out that it functions as "insert spell here" you are absolutely correct!

In this case it functions as the spell Sanctuary.


It says it functions as Sanctuary. So the DC will be 10+spell level(1) + modifier.


Artanthos wrote:
Venomblade wrote:

This REALLY works well with the Barbarians Rage power Come and get me. I would always run out of Attacks of opportunity if I was fighting things with a lot of attacks. Now with this mythic feat a Mythic barbarian with Mythic combat reflexes will never run out!

Love it!

Also if he gets some giant hide armor and a reach weapon there are tons of AoO before the mobs get to him.

Come and get me is always fun, until you fight something with greater vital strike and mythic vital strike.

Yes, Giants with greater vital strike are the one thing that has taken my barbarian out.

oh.. and Maze. HA!


Ooh! A Zen Archer with Reflexive Shot and improved snap shot and combat patrol... Would not even have to move! Interesting!


Matrix Dragon wrote:
I'd love to see a mythic version of Magic Jar that functions more like a ghost's Malevolence/Possession ability. I'll see if I can come up with a writeup for it later.

Could make it so that you know which souls are near you and you can easily choose the correct one to possess. Spend a mythic point to make the range 1 mile? Extra Duration?


This REALLY works well with the Barbarians Rage power Come and get me. I would always run out of Attacks of opportunity if I was fighting things with a lot of attacks. Now with this mythic feat a Mythic barbarian with Mythic combat reflexes will never run out!

Love it!

Also if he gets some giant hide armor and a reach weapon there are tons of AoO before the mobs get to him.


Hey everyone,

If any DM's have or are going to run Skulls and Shackles I have a few questions for you!

Spoiler:
My players are headed into Riptide cove tonight and I am planning on testing out Mythic a bit. I am going to be granting them all Tier 1 mythic temporarily. I will probably have them kill a Mythic creature(The eel from the Invernus wreck) before heading into the cove and absorb some of it's power until they leave the cove and it wheres off.

What I need from you guys.

Spoiler:
Which creatures should I upgrade inside Riptide cove? Should I just add Mythic templates to The Whale, Queen and Devil fish? Should I add any templates to the normal grindylows? What about the Stirge nest at the entrance? Make them agile? Would that be too mean?

What templates should I add to The Whale, The Queen and the Devil fish?

What would be some appropriate Mythic feats to add to these creatures?

I am considering making the Eel in the Invernus' shipwreck the mythic creature that grants them their temporary Mythic power.
What template(s) would you add to it? Feats? ect...

Thanks in advance!


SO I wonder why they even wrote this in the spell description.
You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do.

Seems like I can try and make my charmed targets do things that they don't want to. It is wonderful to be so charismatic!

You will sleep with those hookers and you will like it! Then drown your sorrows in this beer with me!

Cheers!


Theconiel wrote:
Gauss wrote:

No that is not how it works. It is cast, it spreads, it settles on things. People entering the area are not subject to the spell because it has already settled. The dust lasts for 1round/level.

Note: After rereading it I can see how it could be misunderstood.

- Gauss

That's what I thought. But I was not about to argue with the GM.

Where can we find more players like you!

I feel like we send half our playtime arguing/discussing rules sometimes.

I can just imagine all that we could accomplish......


If you read my next sentence it says "If it still wanted to eat my friends it would come down to an opposed charisma check for me to stop it."

I was basically just stating that it would still understand me. I agree that it's instincts would cause it to still want to eat my friends. It is a good thing I have a really good charisma check!

It would be fun to force you to run that red light though! All the cool people are doing it!

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