I just read the mounted Skirmisher feat it would seem that you can't have your mount charge and do a full attack was very disappointed about this. Why do they keep coming out with feats that limit your options?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't see that reading at all. It says that if your mount moves its speed or less, you can make a full attack. A mount doesn't have to move over its full speed to charge. So if you have a mount with a 40ft speed, you can charge up to 40ft and then make a full attack while also using feats such as Spirited Charge.
Now, the limitation on moving more than the mount's speed exists to prevent the feat from being too good. Moving your mount's speed normally, or even moving your mount's speed with a charge and full attacking, is fine, but someone decided it would be too powerful if you could charge at double your mount's speed and still full attack. I don't have much of a problem with this limitation, or the limitation in Pinpoint Targeting that says you can't move in the round you use the feat (though you still get a move action).
What really limits options is how Pinpoint Targeting, Spring Attack, and similar feats give you special attacks usable as a standard or full-round action, which thus can't be combined with any other similar feat or with feats like Vital Strike which can only be used with a normal attack action.
As written, you can charge + full attack just fine. And it's a level 14 feat (some get it early) that requires a bunch of other feats and being mounted when pounce is often a level 10 class feature (and eidolons get it at 1), so it's hardly overpowered. Do note the clarification on lance charges, you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack, iirc the same applies to spirited charge's multiplier.
I don't think the distance limit is for balance reasons. I think it's a "realism" thing. There's only so far / so much time spent that your mount can move before having the time left in the round to actually deliver a full attack. I believe this is the reason why mounted combat does not allow you to full attack when your mount moves more than 5 ft, even though you still have your full action, to begin with: You may have the actions, but the time you burn before you use them matters.
Wow! I hadn't noticed this feat until now. I'm definitely going to take this at 15th level for my Paladin.
My mount has 50' base move, plus 30' for horseshoes of speed. With Spirited Attack, that's an 80' charge ending in three triple-damage lance attacks! (all with +2 attack for charging)
You only get the damage multiplier on the first attack (and if it misses, it doesn't "transfer" to the 2nd attack).
It's still really good, of course. It's basically "lance charge, plus a bunch more regular attacks if he's still barely alive."
You may like the Hangover Cleric for build advice. It's tailor made for LN.
|
You only get the damage multiplier on the first attack (and if it misses, it doesn't "transfer" to the 2nd attack).
It's still really good, of course. It's basically "lance charge, plus a bunch more regular attacks if he's still barely alive."
Hi StreamoftheSky. I realize its been a while since you wrote that post, but I was hoping you could tell me where it says that you only get the extra damage on the first round of the full attack. I can't see anything about that.
Yar!
Despite not being StreamOfTheSky, I will direct you to where this was stated. It is stated in one of the CRB FAQs, located HERE. While it initially relates to Lances with Pounce, it also calls out "...even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation...", which is exactly what this combination does.
EDIT: It is iffy if Spirited Charge would work either, as they way it's written is that if you are mounted and you charge you get to multiply your damage. If you are charging, you can't also full attack unless you have the Pounce ability. The reason you can gain the benefits of a charge and full attack with Mounted Skirmisher is that when you are mounted and your mount charges, you "... also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge." It doesn't state that you must charge as well, only that if you decide to attack at the end of your mount's charge, you gain the standard charging penalties and benefits for your attack as well. Using this same reasoning, this is the one and only way to Vital Strike on a charge... it must be a mounted charge, and your mount charges while you standard action Vital Strike (and gain the penalties and benefits of a charge because you are mounted and your mount charges and you made an attack).
Of course, it then goes on to say "When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance". So it is possible that the intent was that you must also perform a charge action, or that the language is interchangeable (in which case anytime it says "you make a charge while mounted" it doesn't necessarily mean that you must make a Charge action, only be mounted while your mount charges)
~P
|
There is a large string of threads that establish the principle that when your mount charges, you are not taking the charge action. I'll locate the best one and link it in here in just a moment. The rules for mounted combat also stipulate fairly adroitly that a)your mount uses its own actions for movement, etc. and b)you are getting the adjustments of his charge.
This post contains most of the appropriate references.
Mounted Skirmisher seems like a wasted feat.
For a DC 5 ride check (With no action) you can guide your mount's movement with your knees:
Ride Skill
If you have a mount chances are Ride is a class skill so this becomes trivial.
Why does this feat even exist? If it was worded more like Pounce but for the mount it would be worthwhile. Otherwise I can basically sit on top of a mount, move the mount's speed every turn, and full attack with no need for this feat.
|
|
Normally you cannot make more than one melee attack if your mount moves more than 5 feet, per the explicit wording in the mounted combat rules located in the Combat section of the CRB. Nothing in the Ride skill bypasses this. Mounted Skirmisher allows you to still take a full attack even if your mount has moved that round, though recent FAQs mean it no longer can be combo'd with a charge.
|
|
Normally you cannot make more than one melee attack if your mount moves more than 5 feet, per the explicit wording in the mounted combat rules located in the Combat section of the CRB. Nothing in the Ride skill bypasses this. Mounted Skirmisher allows you to still take a full attack even if your mount has moved that round, though recent FAQs mean it no longer can be combo'd with a charge.
Yes it can. It just can't be combined with multiple double-damage lance attacks.
|
|
Normally you cannot make more than one melee attack if your mount moves more than 5 feet, per the explicit wording in the mounted combat rules located in the Combat section of the CRB. Nothing in the Ride skill bypasses this. Mounted Skirmisher allows you to still take a full attack even if your mount has moved that round, though recent FAQs mean it no longer can be combo'd with a charge.Yes it can. It just can't be combined with multiple double-damage lance attacks.
It cannot be combined with a mounted charge. If your mount feels like charging that's all well and good, but you aren't getting any of the mechanical benefits.
Didn't they fix that little ambiguity fairly recently? BOTH ARE CHARGING last I heard.
|
|
Didn't they fix that little ambiguity fairly recently? BOTH ARE CHARGING last I heard.
To make a mounted charge, they both have to spend a charge action. The rider can choose not to charge, but he will not gain any of the benefits of charging. The new clarification was to establish the definition of a mounted charge as being an action wherein both rider and mount spend a charge action.
So if you want your dire lion mount to pounce an enemy, you can perform a mounted charge as well and use your feats like Spirited Charge, etc.
or you can perform some other action but will not gain any of the benefits of the charge like amplified damage and bonus to hit.
At least, that was how SRMF explained the new FAQ.
Link please?
|
|
In this response right after the FAQ was announced to the question "When riding a mount, can you command the mount to charge while you yourself do not charge?"
Stephen's response was "Of course. The mount is charging, but it is not a mounted charge. In order for you to make a mounted charge (and get things like the bonus for using a lance or the effects of Spirited charge, you must make a mounted charge). The clarification will deal for what is a mounted charge and the effects are."
The FAQ was specifically to lay down what does and does not constitute a "mounted charge".