How to Upgrade Your Gear in PFS.

[Skarm]

I was wondering:

Would be possible the cosmetic (only) modification of an existing wondrous item?

I mean...just the "fluff" description of it.

Like having a Diabolical Masquerade Mask that, instead of looking like an "handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes", looked like an "attractive nogitsune oni with red lenses in place of eyes"?

Thanks,
Skarm

[Gary Bush]

As long as the re-skin does not provide material benefit, it should be ok.

[Nefreet]

And as long as anyone attempting to identify it wouldn't be misled by your description.

I, personally, think your destination would be fine.

[Ferious Thune]

Yeah, I think this will probably be fine. For my Ninja, I used to describe her Mask of Stony Demeanor as a porcelain kabuki-style mask, followed by an out of character explanation of what it was. I never ran into any issues, but I was fine with dropping that description if a GM wanted me to for a session, and I never expected it to alter the mechanics or being able to recognize what it was.

EDIT: As a counter example, I purchased Lenses of Detection for my Rogue because the picture of them in Ultimate Equipment looks like sunglasses, while the picture of the Eyes of the Eagle... does not. Knowing how popular Eyes of the Eagle are, I see that image and it makes me laugh thinking about so many Pathfinders walking around wearing them. I'm less comfortable reskinning those to look like sunglasses, because the Lenses of Detection already do.

[Lund Ionacu]

Hi, all.
Dunno if this was mentioned earlier in the thread- looked through but couldn’t see it:
If I have a +1 1 Lesser Designating weapon, can I improve that to a +1 Designating at a later date?

[Nefreet]

You can, now.

Earlier in this thread you were unable to.

[Lund Ionacu]

Nefreet wrote:

You can, now.

Earlier in this thread you were unable to.

Awesome. Thanks!

[Warriorking9001]

Kyle Baird wrote:

Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?

Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Admittedly I might be a bit annoying about this one, but I do want to ask exactly WHY you cannot upgrade named items. I mean I get that this might just be a rules thing, but there are so many interesting unique items that just become completely useless by the lack of scaling.

For my specific example of this, Folding Plate. I ADORE the concept of folding plate, but wonder why one cannot enhance it. I mean I understand the general answer of 'this is not part of the rules and as such it cannot be done'. But I wonder just what we gain from this restriction. Again pardon if I annoy with this question. (and hell, maybe there is something that I don't know about that can break balance).

[shaventalz]

Warriorking9001 wrote:

Kyle Baird wrote:

Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?

Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Admittedly I might be a bit annoying about this one, but I do want to ask exactly WHY you cannot upgrade named items. I mean I get that this might just be a rules thing, but there are so many interesting unique items that just become completely useless by the lack of scaling.

For my specific example of this, Folding Plate. I ADORE the concept of folding plate, but wonder why one cannot enhance it. I mean I understand the general answer of 'this is not part of the rules and as such it cannot be done'. But I wonder just what we gain from this restriction. Again pardon if I annoy with this question. (and hell, maybe there is something that I don't know about that can break balance).

Short answer: because you can't always tell for sure how something's price was determined.

Folding plate seems pretty straightforward (10k for the ability, plus the cost of the armor), but not everything is. For example, take the Dagger of Venom. Is the "of venom" portion priced as a +1 bonus, or is it a flat +6k? Did the designer make it a bit cheaper because it's only a dagger? You just can't know for certain, so a blanket ban is a lot easier for Paizo to deal with than trying to reverse-engineer everything.

[Skarm]

I have a new doubt:

If a weapon (i.e., switchblade knife) is listed as "This weapon is treated as a dagger", it could be considered a dagger for purpose of specific magic item enchantment?

I mean...it can receive also enchantments that are meant for a dagger, since the "treated as" usually allows for abilities and effects that are used for a dagger?

Thanks,
Skarm

[SCPRedMage]

If the thing in question specifies a limit to how it's treated as another thing ("is treated as an X for the purposes of Y"), then it's treated as that other thing only for the listed purposes.

If that thing does not specify a limit ("is treated as an X", full stop), then it is treated as that other thing in all ways.

The switchblade knife does not specify a limit to how it is treated as a dagger, so it's a dagger in all ways, minus the specifics it specifies for how it's different. So yes, a switchblade can be used with abilities that require daggers (assuming the blade is out), and can be enchanted with effects that only work on daggers.

[Skarm]

SCPRedMage wrote:

If the thing in question specifies a limit to how it's treated as another thing ("is treated as an X for the purposes of Y"), then it's treated as that other thing only for the listed purposes.

If that thing does not specify a limit ("is treated as an X", full stop), then it is treated as that other thing in all ways.

The switchblade knife does not specify a limit to how it is treated as a dagger, so it's a dagger in all ways, minus the specifics it specifies for how it's different. So yes, a switchblade can be used with abilities that require daggers (assuming the blade is out), and can be enchanted with effects that only work on daggers.

So I need Martial proficiency (or specific proficiency) to open it as in the description BUT, once opened, I can wield it as a dagger (simple weapon proficiency) AND I can even upgrade it as a dagger?

I was also wondering:

The Spike Hilt states:

"A spike hilt can be added to any one-handed or two-handed sword or hafted weapon, which conceals a dagger within the larger weapon. An observer who succeeds at a DC 20 Perception check while carefully examining the larger weapon notices the spike hilt. Drawing a dagger from the spike hilt is a swift action. This dagger can be made masterwork or turned into a magic weapon at the normal cost."

...I am puzzled because it states one-handed or two-handed sword or hafted weapon...so it cannot be hidden in the hilt of a smaller sword (i.e., long sword or wakizashi), right?

I was puzzled because it is another dagger like weapon (which, in this case, it is literally described as "dagger").
Skarm

[SCPRedMage]

The switchblade knife being listed as a martial weapon would be one of the "specifics it specifies for how it's different", meaning it would require martial weapon proficiency, full stop. I suspect that this may have been a mistake, but as written it's a martial weapon.

As to the Spike Hilt, the dagger is literally just a dagger that's hidden inside the hilt/haft, physically separate from the weapon that you're adding the Spike Hilt to. As such it's not so much "dagger-like" as it is an actual dagger.

As to what weapons you could put it in, when it says "one-handed or two-handed sword or hafted weapon", it's referring to the weapon categories: light, one-handed, and two-handed. All melee weapons qualify as one of these three categories, as listed in the weapons table, and any sword or hafted weapon that is listed as either a one-handed or two-handed weapon qualifies for a Spike Hilt. That means a longsword could have one, as it is listed as a one-handed weapon, while a wakizashi could not, as it is listed as a light weapon.

[Walks Softly]

Quote:

Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?

Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

I understand how this works for Magical upgrades.

What about some of the non-magical upgrades available now in Accessories like Melee Tactics Toolbox (Shield Boss) and Adventurer's Armory 2 (Armor and Weapon Modifications)?

Could I add a Shield Boss to a Lion's Shield for instance to increase it's HP and the normal Shield Boss options?

The Clause above about "Non-Magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally." also has some interesting interaction with a few items from Chronicles that start out as Masterwork and then allow a player to upgrade them later.

Could I take that unique item and apply a Weapon Modification like Razor Sharp? Following all the rules for Modifications as normal.

All of these Upgrades have static costs and specific minor effects that shouldn't be too hard to track.

[kevin_video]

You can’t upgrade a magic item from a +2 to a +3, but can you add specific gold amount upgrades? Like adding an elemental resistance property to armor or the adaptive weapon property to a bow? I’d think that something that says +1000 gp or +15,000 gp would be possible.

If this has been brought up before I didn’t see it, and wanted to ask and make sure.

[SCPRedMage]

Walks Softly wrote:

Questions

"Upgrades" in the form of modifications to the base item (usually denoted by their price being listed as an addition, such as "+150 gp") wouldn't be allowed any more than changing the base material; magic items are what they say they are, and no more.

A shield boss, on the other hand, is actually a separate item that's physically attached after the fact, so there's no issue with attaching one after the fact. You can tell that the shield boss is a separate item not only from the price (which is listed as a stand-alone price, not an addition), but also because the description calls them "a sturdy steel device that fastens to the front of a shield".

So you could buy a shield boss separately and then attach it to a magic shield (since a shield boss is an entirely separate item), but you couldn't take a magic shield and add shield spikes or make it a throwing shield (because those are modifications of the base item itself0).

Derek Blakely wrote:

You can’t upgrade a magic item from a +2 to a +3, but can you add specific gold amount upgrades?

While the rule may have been justified by not being able to determine pricing due to effective enhancement bonus costs, the rule is uniform: no upgrading specific magic items. The rule makes no distinction for effects with a flat price.

[kevin_video]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Derek Blakely wrote:

You can’t upgrade a magic item from a +2 to a +3, but can you add specific gold amount upgrades?

While the rule may have been justified by not being able to determine pricing due to effective enhancement bonus costs, the rule is uniform: no upgrading specific magic items. The rule makes no distinction for effects with a flat price.

Fair enough. I've made sure to flag my own post for FAQ.

[Walks Softly]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Walks Softly wrote:

Questions

"Upgrades" in the form of modifications to the base item (usually denoted by their price being listed as an addition, such as "+150 gp") wouldn't be allowed any more than changing the base material; magic items are what they say they are, and no more.

Armor and Weapon Modifications from Adventurer's Armory 2 specifically allow for them to be added to existing Magic items by paying an additional +50% cost of the Upgrade.

So it is different from changing the base material. They usually require an additional feat to use the item after the Modification.

[Micheal Smith]

So I am not sure a bout upgrading an item. I have a chronicle with a mule back chord an +1 clouk of resistance. The scenario specifically calls out cloak of resistance 1 and resistance 2 with a muleback chord. Can I upgrade it past +2. Or is +2 the highest I can ever upgrade it to.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

That is a very good question and one that would impact a character of mine...

[JDDyslexia]

I can't quite tell based on the wording you've given, but I'm going to venture a guess:

It sounds like the sheet has a special item that combines muleback cords and a cloak +1, and specifically says you can upgrade it to a +2 for a cost. If this is the case, then you cannot modify it past +2.

If it's not a published piece of equipment, then you cannot follow the upgrade rules beyond what is stated. I ran into this issue because a chronicle sheet gave me a necklace of resistance +2, and that was also not upgradable.

[Micheal Smith]

It just states that I can upgrade it later to the +2 version later for a specific amount of gold. If I have access to the +2 I could buy the +1 instead.

[JDDyslexia]

Well, yes. It sounds like the sheet has it printed as a +1 and that you can upgrade it to a +2. So, you could buy it at either +1 or +2 but that's as far as you can go with it.

[Zephyre14]

Nefreet wrote:

You can, now.

Earlier in this thread you were unable to.

Nefreet, I am trying to figure out where the "lesser" to "normal"/"greater" part of the upgrade rules changed. We have things so all over the place now, I can't find where the language on upgrading got more generous.

If you could help me out, I would much appreciate it.

Thank you,
Zephyre14

[Richard Lowe]

Zephyre14 wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

You can, now.

Earlier in this thread you were unable to.

Nefreet, I am trying to figure out where the "lesser" to "normal"/"greater" part of the upgrade rules changed. We have things so all over the place now, I can't find where the language on upgrading got more generous.

If you could help me out, I would much appreciate it.

Thank you,
Zephyre14

I think this is the FAQ you're looking for.

The important part being; "You may upgrade one weapon, armor, or wondrous item to another as long as the new item occupies the same slot, is made of the same material, has the same general shape, and has all of the abilities of the original item."

[Zephyre14]

Richard Lowe wrote:

Zephyre14 wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

You can, now.

Earlier in this thread you were unable to.

Nefreet, I am trying to figure out where the "lesser" to "normal"/"greater" part of the upgrade rules changed. We have things so all over the place now, I can't find where the language on upgrading got more generous.

If you could help me out, I would much appreciate it.

Thank you,
Zephyre14

I think this is the FAQ you're looking for.

The important part being; "You may upgrade one weapon, armor, or wondrous item to another as long as the new item occupies the same slot, is made of the same material, has the same general shape, and has all of the abilities of the original item."

Thank you, Richard, I do believe that is what I was looking for.

[PMSchulz]

Okay, quick question. I have a ring of protection +1, but I just got a sheet that gives me the option of buying a ring of protection +2 for 4K. Can I spend 2K and upgrade, or do I have to pay the full 6K to upgrade it? (Which would make it cheaper to just buy the misprinted ring outright and go from there.)

[roll4initiative]

PMSchulz wrote:

Okay, quick question. I have a ring of protection +1, but I just got a sheet that gives me the option of buying a ring of protection +2 for 4K. Can I spend 2K and upgrade, or do I have to pay the full 6K to upgrade it? (Which would make it cheaper to just buy the misprinted ring outright and go from there.)

Some chronicles have misprinted item costs. Always go with the cost in whatever book it is listed in unless the scenario specifically tells you that you can purchase it at a discounted price which is usually listed as a boon of some sort. So, you will need to pay the 6K to upgrade it.

[shaventalz]

Christian Dragos wrote:

PMSchulz wrote:

Okay, quick question. I have a ring of protection +1, but I just got a sheet that gives me the option of buying a ring of protection +2 for 4K. Can I spend 2K and upgrade, or do I have to pay the full 6K to upgrade it? (Which would make it cheaper to just buy the misprinted ring outright and go from there.)

Some chronicles have misprinted item costs. Always go with the cost in whatever book it is listed in unless the scenario specifically tells you that you can purchase it at a discounted price which is usually listed as a boon of some sort. So, you will need to pay the 6K to upgrade it.

Also see this post in the (a?) product thread. It's got a link to a GM discussion thread (spoilery!) for a different scenario.

The source quote is duplicated below, for those who don't want to approach possible spoilers:

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

That's a typo. When we intentionally offer a reduced price on a Chronicle sheet, we'll call it out specifically.

[OmegaShadow93]

Kyle Baird wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

You might consider adding the fame limit/always available rules as they apply here.

I had that stuff originally, but it's a bit off topic.

So I want to know. I got pinned on this for having 8 fame and an Adamantine scimitar. Always allowed says I can have weapons made of special material but I got pinned cause my weapon was over 3k gold cost

[Mage of the Wyrmkin]

I understand the FAQ regarding the upgrading of Weapons, Armor and Wondrous items however a Metamagic Rod or a ring of Spell Knowledge does not fit into any of these three categories.

For PFS is it now legal to:

1) Upgrade a Metamagic Rod (lesser) to a Metamagic Rod (standard or greater).

2) Upgrade a Ring of Spell Knowledge I to a Ring of Spell Knowledge II or greater.

[BigNorseWolf]

Mage of the Wyrmkin wrote:

I understand the FAQ regarding the upgrading of Weapons, Armor and Wondrous items however a Metamagic Rod or a ring of Spell Knowledge does not fit into any of these three categories.

For PFS is it now legal to:

1) Upgrade a Metamagic Rod (lesser) to a Metamagic Rod (standard or greater).

2) Upgrade a Ring of Spell Knowledge I to a Ring of Spell Knowledge II or greater.

Yes.

Are they the same material? Yes

Does item mk 2 cover the uses of item mk 1? Yes

[JDDyslexia]

OmegaShadow93 wrote:

So I want to know. I got pinned on this for having 8 fame and an Adamantine scimitar. Always allowed says I can have weapons made of special material but I got pinned cause my weapon was over 3k gold cost.

I'm not sure what "getting pinned" implies..

Quotes are from the RPGG, emphasis mine:

Benefits of Fame, p23 wrote:

A character’s Fame score determines the maximum gp value of any items she can purchase from the Pathfinder Society or her faction, as detailed in the table on page 20

Always Available, p21 wrote:

You may always purchase the following items or equipment as long as you’re in an appropriately sized settlement (see page 20)...

...Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items either from his accumulated Chronicle sheets or by capitalizing on his Fame (see page 20).

Since adamantine is listed in the Core Rulebook, your scimitar is legal. If it were, say, bone or singing steel, then it wouldn't be legal.

[陳國光CHEN]

We can ignore the Time Cost for weapon update, right?

And what about the Time Cost for a Gunslinger Repairing his initial, broken firearm?

[Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion]

Between scenarios? Yes. During scenarios? No.

[陳國光CHEN]

Ok, thx.

[Secane]

Sorry if this has been ask and answered before, but can you add armor spikes to Unique Armor (named magic armor)?

Like add armor spikes to a Mithral Full Plate of Speed?

[FLite]

Secane wrote:

Sorry if this has been ask and answered before, but can you add armor spikes to Unique Armor (named magic armor)?

Like add armor spikes to a Mithral Full Plate of Speed?

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to.

[Secane]

FLite wrote:

Secane wrote:

Sorry if this has been ask and answered before, but can you add armor spikes to Unique Armor (named magic armor)?

Like add armor spikes to a Mithral Full Plate of Speed?

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to.

Its to my understanding that armor spikes are a seperate weapon. That when added to armor, makes the armor into spiked armor. As it's it own weapon, it can be applied to any armor.

But since unique armors cannot be modified with additional changes, like material, additional enchantments or special abilities. For example you can't make a +3 Mithral Full Plate of Speed, it can only be a +1, nor can you make an adamantine version of it.

It's been argued that armor spikes, which changes an armor into a spiked armor version, is considered a modification as well. Despite being its own weapon.

Hence I'm asking if there is any clarification on this. Or am I just reading too much into the no additional enchantments on unique armors/items rule.

[FLite]

Secane wrote:

FLite wrote:

Secane wrote:

Sorry if this has been ask and answered before, but can you add armor spikes to Unique Armor (named magic armor)?

Like add armor spikes to a Mithral Full Plate of Speed?

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to.

Its to my understanding that armor spikes are a seperate weapon. That when added to armor, makes the armor into spiked armor. As it's it own weapon, it can be applied to any armor.

But since unique armors cannot be modified with additional changes, like material, additional enchantments or special abilities. For example you can't make a +3 Mithral Full Plate of Speed, it can only be a +1, nor can you make an adamantine version of it.

It's been argued that armor spikes, which changes an armor into a spiked armor version, is considered a modification as well. Despite being its own weapon.

Hence I'm asking if there is any clarification on this. Or am I just reading too much into the no additional enchantments on unique armors/items rule.

I think you are reading too much into it.

[Ravingdork]

What are the rules or limitations, if any, on upgrading gear in 2e?

[FLite]

From the FAQ:

Can I upgrade permanent items?

Yes, players may upgrade permanent magical items or items made from special materials using the Crafting rules on page 535 of the Core Rulebook. Players may not upgrade adventuring gear or consumable items in this manner.

Can I pay the cost difference to upgrade a permanent item instead of using Craft to do it myself?

Yes. The Pathfinder Society has numerous crafters that assist their fellow agents. Use the rules for upgrading magic items on page 535 of the Core Rulebook.

[Ravingdork]

FLite wrote:

From the FAQ:

Can I upgrade permanent items?

Yes, players may upgrade permanent magical items or items made from special materials using the Crafting rules on page 535 of the Core Rulebook. Players may not upgrade adventuring gear or consumable items in this manner.

Can I pay the cost difference to upgrade a permanent item instead of using Craft to do it myself?

Yes. The Pathfinder Society has numerous crafters that assist their fellow agents. Use the rules for upgrading magic items on page 535 of the Core Rulebook.

Great! Thanks.

But isn't all gear with stats adventuring gear?

[Pirate Rob]

Adventuring Gear is a specific category of mundane items.

[Online Guide Team Lead - JTT]

Ravingdork wrote:

But isn't all gear with stats adventuring gear?

As Pirate Rob said, Adventuring Gear is a specific category of mundane items.