Thesing the Vampire

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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 433 posts. 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 18 Organized Play characters.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
Tryn wrote:

@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.

But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?

A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.

So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).

I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...

It is consistent. I would rather have consistent healing than getting 3. I mean you pay 425 credits and have the possibility of getting 3 hp. Yes there is the chance of getting 24. Or I pay 440 credits give a good chuck. On average sprayflesh will give more. Yes it is a bit of investment but if you don't have a mystic then anything helps. I am playing a biohacker (playtest) and he doesn't like the concept of magic. He prefers technology over all.

So I needed a way to help heal and this is ANOTHER option. I think this is perceptive, for it being good.

You don't pay 450 to get 3d8. you pay 150 to get 3d8/ its FAR more economical to buy a bunch of low level healing serums for out of combat healing than to invest feats into doing the same.

Ok you clearly missed the point. We were discussing in combat healing as a full round action. So your solution is the worse. Out of combat yes you have the best solution.


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Tryn wrote:

@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.

But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?

A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.

So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).

I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...

It is consistent. I would rather have consistent healing than getting 3. I mean you pay 425 credits and have the possibility of getting 3 hp. Yes there is the chance of getting 24. Or I pay 440 credits give a good chuck. On average sprayflesh will give more. Yes it is a bit of investment but if you don't have a mystic then anything helps. I am playing a biohacker (playtest) and he doesn't like the concept of magic. He prefers technology over all.

So I needed a way to help heal and this is ANOTHER option. I think this is perceptive, for it being good.


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Tryn wrote:

Let's assume a mid level character (Level 9) with INT +6 and the medical expert feat, so you are able to grant a character lvl +6 hp.

Sprayflesh:
1. You have to use a full action (instead of 1 minute thanks to the feat)
2. You have to pass a DC 25 (30) medicine check
3. Your target only only get 9 (15) hp when
a) he does a 10 min rest
b) spent a Resolve Point
c) forgo his stamina regeneration

Serum of Healing MK II:
1. You can draw and apply it within a full action too
2. you don't have to pass any check
3. you get 3 to 24 hp (average 13,5) instantly

If you put your serums of healing into small Syringe, you can even apply them to your friends.
(If you have a Auto Injector you can heal yourself even in a move-action.)

I don't really see the benefit of Sprayflesh here, it takes more time, has the chance of failing, costs more and is less flexible.

Again you miss the point. I don't think you understand how this works. Please go back and reread things. The sprayflesh does not perform its normal functions. So thus you are wrong.

Medical Expert wrote:

When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions.

So therefore as a full round action I can give 9(15) in your example. If you do make the DC 30 then you are still giving more than the average of an MK II healing serum. Also it could be argue that you don't even use the DC of the sprayflesh because of the quoted text. Then as I see nothing is stopping you from using an advanced med kit with this. Medical expert simply allows you to use a sprayflesh or medpatch to perform TDW faster. This makes the DC 20 (25), which isn't that difficult to go with.


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Tryn wrote:

Sprayflesh is wasted money in my view.

Sprayflesh
Item Level 5 Price 440 credits
Requires a Medicine Check and you can choose to get your level hp instead of stamina the next time you rest for 10 min and spent one RP.

Serum of Haling
MK I: Item Level 1 Price 50
MK II: Item Level 5 Price 425

You get 1d8 / 3d8 hp instantly, no check, no rest & no RP needed

So why should I use the worst option to regenerate hp?

I think this a basic problem with Starfinder, the technological solution are most times more expensive and less effective then the magic ones.
I think a solution would be to reduce the price of the sprayflesh dramatically (especially since it already has three drawbacks (check, rest, RP spent).

You missed the whole point. Using this with medical expert. At higher levels This is better than MK I healing serum, Yes MK II is still better but this requires you to pull it out and drink it. Spayflesh would allow me just to run up with it then perform the check next round. This allows your healers or non combatants to help the combatants by performing TDW in combat and past the max limit. If you beat the DC by 5 or more you add your INT. So INT based characters this is a nice little boost.


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ThermalCat wrote:
CRB pg.220 wrote:

Sprayflesh

...If you have
ranks in Medicine, a dose of sprayflesh allows you to attempt
a check to treat deadly wounds on a creature that has already
received its limit of treat deadly wound benefits for the day
.
If you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check, the next time such
a creature rests for 10 minutes and spends a Resolve Point to
regain Stamina Points, it can instead gain the benefit of your
Medicine check to treat deadly wounds.

The way I run my campaign, exploiting the part I've bolded above, is that in the hands of a person with medical training, you can keep using sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as long as the Resolve Points of the recipient holds out. You might argue that I'm breaking the spirit of the rules, but by the way they're written I don't think I am. There is the limit of Resolve Points, which you should use cautiously, and the cost of sprayflesh, which is a bit pricey for lower level characters, so I don't think my interpretation breaks anything badly.

"I've got my case of Sprayflesh here. You may look like the Michelin Man when I'm done, but by God I'm going to stop that bleeding!"

After reading and rereading this I feel that works. Check this out:

1. Do you have ranks in medicine?
~ yes: continue
~ no: exit

2. Do you have sprayflesh?
~ yes: continue
~ no: exit

3. Has the creature you are attempting to use received its limit of treat deadly wounds (TDW)?
~ yes: continue
~ no: exit

4. Did you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check?
~ yes: next time you rest for 10 minus and spend resolve to regain stamina gain hp = treat deadly wounds
~ no: exit


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Also keep in mind with 2E the dependency on magical healing won't be there like 1E. So there needs to be a way to help.


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That is correct.

CRB wrote:
A creature can receive this treatment only once every 24-hour period, unless it is delivered in a medical lab.

So if you have access to a medical lab you can use Treat deadly wounds twice a day. Now if you have the Surgeon Expertise talent you can do this a third time a day. But it requires a medical bay increase DC by and takes 1 hour.

If you can justify the cost then using medical expert you can then use a med patch or spray flesh to tread deadly wounds as a full round action. The only benefit to this is if you need to do this in the middle of combat. Doesn't give more uses.

Don't forget if you beat the DC by 5 or more you add your Intelligence.

I wish Tread Deadly wounds was more like 2E and could do it more often. I really would like to see the Biohacker get some abilities that can play off this.


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@Blave
Too long to quote
Unburdened Iron:
I will give that this is not as good as some others but it most definitely is a great feat to have for any class. It isn't just limited to heavy armored characters. That is very closed minded to think that way. The second ability is great in any sense. Allowing the barbarian not to take speed penalties or reduced penalties is great.

Boulder Roll:
The damage is applied if they don't get a critical success. Even if they succeed they still take the damage. This then allows you to use any weapon you want and be able to shove them back. Ok so they make the save. They still take the damage. What limiting size restrictions? As a giant barbarian you grow in size, which increases the number of creatures you can apply this to. Then shove requires you to have a free hand and is a 10th level feat. This you get at 5th. Don't have to have a free hand and deals damage even on success. I think you severely underrated this feat or didn't see the best way to use this. Knockback is good only if you use 1 handed weapons.

Mountain's stoutness:
Comes to late? Extra hit points and reduced dc for dying is too good to pass up. As a barbarian getting more an more hit points is a huge plus in any sense.

Also having Con and Wis is a great way to start the barbarian. Also picking up fleet is a great way to boost speed, as I don't really care for the majority of the general feats. Toughness, Diehard Adopted Ancestry are top of my list. Fleet is good as the pickings are meh right now. Even then Diehard I wouldn't pick as I would go with adopted ancestry then ancestral paragon to get any feat I want.

Ancient Dwarf is a really good heritage.

Also adopted ancestry (any ancestry) is great. 10 hit points is great star as well. The speed of the dwarf really isn't an issue with several ways to fix that.

I have seen more dwarven barbarians in 2E so far then any other ancestry. It isn't difficult to get intimidation as a dwarf. Or getting a decent cha score.


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I think dwarf feats are great for giant barbarian.

Unburdened Iron - Is really great as it can with speed penalties, this can be useful for barbarians

Boulder Roll - Great at higher levels when you grow in size. Help move bad guys from squishy characters or even push them into harmful conditions. Then you do bludgeoning damage = level + str. This would be great for a giant barbarian

Mountain's stoutness - This feat is just great for any dwarf or ancestry that takes the adopted ancestry(dwarf). You get your level in hit points and reduce the dying save needed by 1. It then gets even better if you have toughness. IT STACKS. At 9th level (when you can pick this feat) if you have this and toughness you will have gained your level x2 in hit points. Your dc for dying is reduced by 4. Pair this up with die hard and now you need dying 5 to die. 6+ to make your recovery save. You become really difficult to kill.

I feel higher level ancestry feats for the Dwarf are really good and feel it is one of the better ancestries in the game.


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I disagree with this. We don't need 2 different skills doing the same thing. That would make medicine a lesser skill. Nature already has a use and adding the ability to something another skill can do equally doesn't make sense.

The feat allows you to use treat wounds with nature, so it gives you an alternative to treat wounds but it shouldn't rival medicine. I could see using feats coming out later that allow nature to do similar things but should never be as effective. Then what would be the purpose of the feat? As stated before allowing nature to copy medicine and do it equally better then medicine. Now it can do everything medicine can do and more.

Maybe an archetype that allows this or special class abilities. But as a skill overall no.


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Depends on your build and what you want to achieve with it. I build a Biohacker (playtest rules) and I paired it off with an envoy. Having the envoy improvisations will help with medicine checks and I can get it so I can use treat deadly wounds on someone 3 times a day (I have to have a med lab) I mean this is free healing.

Also I think this should be in the advice section.


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I like 2E's combat system the most. Not a fan of the class system. I like how classes are handled in 1E and Starfinder. I really like the 3 action system. Never cared for the Standard move swift system. Grenades are crap unless you are the Bombard fighting style. Even then meh.

I like the skill system for the most part. Not to many issues with it. Combat maneuvers are crap.

I don't mind the use of magic items and magic isn't the main focus. I like the focus more on technological items. I kind of wish magic wasn't there to begin with.

Weapons are. hit and miss. Too many and not enough truly distinction between them. The level system (and for armor) I find to be crap. You have to upgrade so much over the course of your career. Only with 10% return.

I love the accessories for weapons but fill they missed the mark on somethings like optics. Why have a manual sight and a sniper scope? They do the same thing with the sniper score adding range.

I like Starship combat, understand the purpose but feel its over complicated. I mean Starship combat usually eats up a lot of time in our games. I like the reduction in number of to hits.

I don't care for the Stamina/HP/Resolve system. I fell its a bit over complicated. I like the medicine concept in 2E and wish Starfinder had that.


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"Dr." Cupi wrote:
Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
Micheal Smith said wrote:

We had an issue where a baddie cast darkness

As there is no Darkness spell in Starfinder, I assume this is a question for the Pathfinder forums.

There are spells that lower the light level, that effectively act as the pf spell darkness.

To the OP
I do not believe that the rules are specific on the origin point of the Darkvision ability. Due a small bit to how eyes work (and simplicity), I lean toward the character being the origin point. A great question though.

As a side note, though I think this is a solid candidate for a FAQ, I very heavily doubt that it would ever receive one.

I have always had it where I could see into darkness with dark vision regardless of where it is. I have always interpreted it as you can see 60 feet into dark vision regardless how far the darkness is from you. I mean as long as you could normally see that far.

If I am wrong then so be it but I just want some clarification.


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Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
Micheal Smith said wrote:

We had an issue where a baddie cast darkness

As there is no Darkness spell in Starfinder, I assume this is a question for the Pathfinder forums.

I am positive I know the difference between Starfinder and Pathfinder. It could have been a special ability. Either way they created darkness.


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So if I have 60 ft of darkvision. Does that have to start from me? We had an issue where a baddie cast darkness. And I was 100 feet away. Would I be able to see 60 feet into the darkvision? Or do I need to be adjacent to the darkness effect or in it?


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Even for a Warpriest I still view having a pretty good WIS is good. If not for spell casting but for medicine. Especially with magical healing not nearly there like in 1e. Treat deadly wounds is an amazing skill. Then investing in to all the feats in the Medicine Skill is great. Ward Medic is great for outside healing. The ability to treat multiple people at once can help significantly. Then continual healing is another great feat, only being immune to treat deadly wounds for 10 minutes vs and hour. So you use Divine Font in combat to keep everyone in the fight long enough to win, then Treat deadly wounds afterwards.

Then for one of the best feat, IMHO, is Godless healing. So you can't have a patron deity to get but being able to immune to Battle medicine for only and hour vs a whole day is great. It also gives and additional 5 hit points when Treat Deadly wounds and Battle medicine have been used on you. So having a decent to high wis for a warpriest would be beneficial. Then have a decent cha for emergency uses of Heal. Both stats are very valuable to the Cleric.


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So is this design for 4 players? If I have more do I need to use the rules in the CRB to adjust?


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Michael Sayre wrote:

The Guide specifically points at the CRB-

The Guide wrote:


A character can use Downtime in a variety of ways, including the Crafting, Earn Income, and retraining options in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Downtime must be spent at the end of the session or it expires; it cannot be stockpiled for later use. (See Downtime.) However, players can spend their Downtime to start or continue an activity such as Crafting an item that requires multiple adventures’ worth of Downtime to complete.
Nothing in the Downtime rules overwrites the CRB, though additional clarifications are included to specify how GM-facing modifiers (level of task, how long you can work at the task, etc.) should be ruled to ensure everyone is experiencing the process the same way. You make one roll for Earn Income at whatever point in your up to 8 day cycle you begin Earning Income, and then apply that result to all the remaining days in cycle. So a successful Earn Income check at task level 1, granting 2 sp a day, grants 16 sp for a full 8-day cycle.

Thank you for the clarification. Wasn’t expecting a dev to respond. Like I said it was just the way things were worded that suggested otherwise. The line I quotes earlier several of us saw that as modifying the CRB.

And that’s why I asked and wanted the clarification.


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Christian Dragos wrote:
There is an example in the CRB in a side bar. Titled "Harsk Makes Tea". Don't know what page (I'm at work), but it's on the right side in the Earn Income section.

Again I will state this. THAT IS THE CRB. The guide does nothing in the earn income to suggest it is done the eaxct way or else the issue would have not been brought up. I don’t care what the CRB states if the guide suggests otherwise.

If they wanted it to be done the same way it would have stated that. And then through any exceptions with it. Now if that is there intent then it clearly needs to be updated, It is clear that the wording suggest ambiguity.

So I guess I need to state this: I understand the CRB, but that isn't the issue (as I stated before), the issue is the guide, which needs to have 0 ambiguity. Which is quite possible.

All I am doing is trying to get clarification and hopefully find where the issue is so it can corrected. Which so far this concept of a living document hasn’t been any better that previous years. It still isn’t being updated in a timely matter. Nor is it fully ready as there are still some things missing. Suggesting 2E and se Society isn’t ready for release. Which from what I have seen is already a huge turn off. From both 2E and 2E Society. But another topic for another time.


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Would it be possible to add in the Down time section that Earn income for legacy purpsoses.

I only suggest because people that play both 1E and 2E and going between the 2 systems use the same term. Now these w terms are effectively the same concept.

So somethign maybe in parenthesis or quotes stating:
"Day job is the same thing as Earn Income. This term derives from 1E and jhas the same concept."

The reasoning behind this is some people still see this as the same thing, and if we have new people only have ever played 2E will understand the term. Some people have been using the term Day Job since the beginning and change is really not easiy. Then eventually phase it out over time. Just a suggestion.


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Gary Bush wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
So I will ask nicely DROP IT.

Guess we have to just disagree.

The correct term for 2e is Earned Income not Day Job. We all have to speak the same language, even if we understand what is being communicated.

Anyone who asks to roll a day job at my table or in my lodge will be told No but they can attempt to earn income during their downtime.

That is best you will get from me.

That really is obnoxious an ridiculous. I think you need to chill out and understand that is is just a game. That right there would be a turn off, that someone is so uptight over a simple term. Again you need to get over it. I can tell you that i am generally a huge stickler for correct terminology, but this is just plain petty.

How about say: “Ok that’s cool, but just remember it is called Earn Income.” The fact you are still continuing with some so irrelevant to the grand scheme of things really makes mew feel sorry for your lodge.

There are bigger issues with the game then terms that are very interchangeable. Again I will say this, maybe it will get through to you this time. First, we know what is being discussed so there is no confusion. So drop it, this isn’t the place to discuss this. Secondly you continue to harp on something that is off topic. KEEP this to the topic that was originally stated. If you wish to make this an issue then please make another post for this.

Also we don’t need to speak the same language if everyone is on the same page. That’s the beauty to all of this. If we are all on the same page then there is no issue. We can have a discussion. You clearly have made your point. I am not going to go out of my way to change because one person can’t get over themselves on something so irrelevant and meaningless.

If you have nothing more to say on the original then please stop responding.


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Gary Bush wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
Also your answer really wasn't any help nor answered the querstion. You simply stated the table is per day. Which did nothing to help other then to state what the CRB stated. The issue was what the guide stated. And how several of us did not i read it as such.
Gary Bush wrote:
The table is a per day result.

My original comment was on target with the original post.

CRB pg 237 wrote:

When you take on a job, the GM secretly sets the DC of your skill check. After your first day of work, you roll to determine your earnings. You gain an amount of income based on your result, the task’s level, and your proficiency rank (as listed on Table 4–2: Income Earned).

You can continue working at the task on subsequent days without needing to roll again. For each day you spend after the first, you earn the same amount as the first day, up until the task’s completion. The GM determines how long you can work at the task.

(emphasis mine)

The CRB defines the roll for Earned Income is determined on the first day and any other days earns the same amount until the the job is done. For most Pathfinders, this will be 8 days.

2e Guide wrote:

Earn Income: Earning Income is the most common Downtime activity. If you are using your Downtime for any other purposes, they must be completed first before you attempt your check to Earn Income. For each 8 day unit of Downtime you spend (including units where you complete multiple activities, such as spending 7

days retraining and then 1 day Earning Income), you attempt one check to Earn Income, using the result to calculate your total earnings for that block of Downtime.

The Guide references the Downtime activity, that is defined in the CRB, to determine the total earnings.

I have to agree that this can be confusing because of the example of doing different Downtime activities.

So this is a better start, then your original post.

And people read the following:

2e Guide wrote:
you attempt one check to Earn Income, using the result to calculate your total earnings for that block of Downtime.

As the chart is the final gp amount. That has ambiguity to it. Cannot say it doesn’t when people read it multiple ways. They could have stated use the rules in the CRB but only for as many days as you have available. Generally 8 days. They threw unneeded information and over complicated it. Evidence by people interpreting it different. If there were any differences in how it is supposed to be handled in Society and the CRB. Not the first time Paizo has over complicated the process.

Or add an example and everything is fine.


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Gary Bush wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
Gary - get over yourself on this. It isn’t going to happen over night. Also I highly doubt people will just stop calling it a day job. I get it you don’t like calling that. Get over it already. That is not all the point of this post. If you can't stay on topic then do not post here.

Wow.. A little personal now.

We, as players, have to make the effort to change with the system. No where that I could find is "day job" used in the 2e guide. So to use that term, while understood by the older players like us, is confusing.

I know it will not happen quickly. I also know that if we don't make the effort to use the correct terms. This includes me... I catch myself using the incorrect terms all the time. It has to start somewhere and with someone. So let's start now. Day Job is not in 2e. Earned Income is. We need to start using the correct term.

Why, Michael, are you so bent out of shape? What is wrong with using the correct terms to express the correct system?

I will correct everyone when it comes to terms we use when talking about the games we play. We all have to speak clearly or there will be confusing. Especially for new players who did not play 1e and trying to find "Day Job" in the guide.

I still stick my decision. It is the same things an thus I will reference as such. If you have a problem with that then please leave. It isn’t confusing at all. I don’t understand why you say such things. The concept is the same, I don’t understand why you keep on so irrelevant. You call it what you call it, I call it what I call, guess what we know exactly what we are talking about. So again nothing is confusing. So I will ask nicely DROP IT.


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Again, if everyone already calls it that, then it isn’t counter intuitive. Also I never stated that the people I am citing from never played, so not sure where that came from.

Gary - get over yourself on this. It isn’t going to happen over night. Also I highly doubt people will just stop calling it a day job. I get it you don’t like calling that. Get over it already. That is not all the point of this post. If you can't stay on topic then do not post here.

Also your answer really wasn't any help nor answered the querstion. You simply stated the table is per day. Which did nothing to help other then to state what the CRB stated. The issue was what the guide stated. And how several of us did not iread it as such.

If everyone understands what is being discussed then no harm no foul. We are humans miskates happen. Trying to swap between to systems you are going to run into the things. I am sorry if we aren't perfect like you and can all do this on the fly. I still mix terminolgy and all between Pathfinder and Starfinder, but guess what it is irreleavent because it all is interchangeable.

When it becomes and issue when people don't understand what it is, then the correct terminology shall be utilize. But for the most part in this instance People will understand that Day job is income. it is literally the same thing, just with another term.


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Gary Bush wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

The table is a per day result.

And to be accurate, it is downtime where the character earns income. Day job as a term is not in 2e.

The concept of day job is the same so thus this comment was not needed. It is the same thing. Where as you generate income during your down time.

Also as I stated the GUIDE was not clear in this aspect as the wording suggested otherwise. This isn’t just coming from my interpretation. As this is from several other people.

Paizo sometimes has a way of wording things where it means one thing and another is stated. This needs to be better clarified. Also an example wouldn’t hurt.

I wouldn’t be asking this if it was so clearly stated. The guide needs to be written for people who have never played can understand. Sometimes the guide is written in a way that if you played you understand and if you haven’t played you don’t understand.

Day job is a mechanicism of 1e. 2e is a different game so we as a community need to change with the game or there will be confusion. That was the point of my comment. There is no day job check in 2e. It is earned income now.

As to people reading things differently, that has been around for a long time and no matter how carefully the words are chosen there will be people who read things differently.

The consciences on the board is that the result was for a single day and thus had to be multipled by 8.

The nice thing about how the guide is being presented lends itself to easier updates. We can offer suggestions to changes. The best suggestions include language on what would be a better wording for the area of concern.

It is still a day job. A job you during the day for x amount of days. No confusion, or at least from what I have seen and heard. Everyone still refers to it as a day job (clarify: everyone iI have spoken to and thus is not a problem). It’s the same thing at the end of the day. They just change the actual name.

Ok the point I am making is there is a way to make it so there is no confusion. Also if there is confusion on how to interpret then it is a problem that NEEDS to be fixed. By adding an example this eliminates any doubt. And seeing how the guide is online and a living document it can be updated more often and fixed when needed. Again there is a lot of ambiguity in the way it is written. Something like the guide should have NO ambiguity. Especially with something like a day job or earn income. There is a way to phrase it so there is no such ambiguity.


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I have a suggestion. I think the Earn Income should be clarified a bit more as myself AND several others apparently read this as the result in the chart is a one time gain instead of gaining the result multiple times.

If anything, simply as an example. I only suggest cause several of us saw the way it was worded it no it what was intended,


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Gary Bush wrote:

The table is a per day result.

And to be accurate, it is downtime where the character earns income. Day job as a term is not in 2e.

The concept of day job is the same so thus this comment was not needed. It is the same thing. Where as you generate income during your down time.

Also as I stated the GUIDE was not clear in this aspect as the wording suggested otherwise. This isn’t just coming from my interpretation. As this is from several other people.

Paizo sometimes has a way of wording things where it means one thing and another is stated. This needs to be better clarified. Also an example wouldn’t hurt.

I wouldn’t be asking this if it was so clearly stated. The guide needs to be written for people who have never played can understand. Sometimes the guide is written in a way that if you played you understand and if you haven’t played you don’t understand.


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That should be a bit more clear in the guide. I had several other people read that and did not come to that conclusion.

Thanks for the response.


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So I needed clarification for how day jobs are calculated. So the way I interpreted the guide is that during each 8 day block you attempt a day job you get 1 check and the chart is what you get. For example, I am first level I succeed at my day job check so I get 5 cp.

When I played my first game the GM said that we were suppose to get the result (5 cp) for every day in the 8 day block. So in this instance I should have received 40 cp.

What is the right way to calculate the Day Job in 2E?


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Thomas Keller wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Thomas Keller wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to answer, but I'm looking for something official here.
You won't get it. They rarely and slowly answered FAQs in the PF1 era, they never answered and explicitly disfavored specific "hey, devs, answer me!" threads, and they never answered easy questions like this. The unfortunately reality is that with a wide, diverse fan base there are a lot of people who have a hard time understanding pretty simple rules, and they trust the rest of the fans to set them straight. They don't have the time to lay out the obvious and noncontroversial stuff to the Pathfinder fan equivalents of flat worlders.
I'm getting a little tired of your constant insults.

I have to disagree with you on this Thomas. I don’t view this as an insult at all. I see this as being the truth. Sometimes speaking the truth is needed. In this case I fell this was very much needed.

I actually found you were very ungrateful. People took time out of their busy life’s to answer simple questions only for you to blow them off because you didn’t get a dev to answer your questions. Believe me I would love to have devs answer my questions directly.

Now when multiple people if not all in the thread come to the same answer, chances are that it was either that simple to understand. I have seen forums where multiple people go back and forth, then at that point I could see the rules aren’t clear.


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I have to agree the shield mechanic does feel rushed. Much better than the playtest. But I feel that 2E was rushed way to fast. So many issues with Society already, unacceptable. Another topic though.

I feel shields are very disappointing. And can maybe reliably take a couple of hits if that. Again I don't know the numbers yet. I just feel they could be better. I don't how but I feel right now they are lack luster.


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I started a thread specifically on the Envoy of Balance


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I really would like to see the twin channeling feature. That was my favorite part of the EoB PrC. I don't know if this would be better off as a feat. Because another thing the EoB did was treat your versatile channel as the same level instead of level - 2. Now the 2E version of this just allows you to cast either Heal or Harm (Assuming your deity allows it). So some of the abilities are automatically given.

Focus Spell: (A feat gives access to it)
Prerequisite: Versatile Font, Selective Energy
Level 8 (or around this level)
3 Actions
It allows you to cast both Heal and Harm as appropriate for your level.

Not sure if in this system this would be too powerful. I know in 1E you didn't spend multiple uses of channeling, to my knowledge.


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I really would love to see the envoy of balance be added. One of my favorite if not favorite PrC. More specifically the concept of twin channeling. The ability to heal allies and harm enemies at the same time. Any thoughts on this? How it would be done?


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AsmodeusDM wrote:

I did miss rebuke death; but that’s not the crux of my point.

My point is about the nature of the games design, understanding hit points as a resource/tension mechanic and how this divine font ability interacts with that.

Let’s rephrase it.

Why does the cleric get a bunch of random extra Heals?

They are fundamentally a full caster and similar to the wizard and sorcerer and druid, they have options to get focus spells just like the wizard or sorcerer or Druid . The wizard doesn’t get bonus auto-leveled magic missiles, nor the sorcerer. The Druid doesn’t get 1+Cha free charm animals per day.

As has been pointed out a lot; the game doesn’t require a cleric to function and Plenty of other healing options exist.

Indeed the existence of this ability is highly variable. A cleric (perhaps more focused on strength and con) might only have 1 or 2 heals, whereas a different cleric with 18 cha could even have 5 bonus heals.

This is unlike any other mechanic in the game.

Even classes with a so called “secondary” stat (wis for monks or cha for champions) are only impacted by that stat if they choose to invest class feats in power and abilities that key off that secondary stat.

So then why is this ability here and why does it operate on an entirely different axis then the rest of the game?

I see what your point about the ability operating on an entirely axis then the rest of the game. I agree to a point that I don't like it because a lot of the new design was to go away from trackable resources. But the cleric has always been known as the main healer. So what else would you do to help with this? Maybe give them a battle medic ability that is a lesser unlimited use or maybe have a restriction on how often you can use it? Or maybe even make it Ito a focus spell that is slightly different then Heal itself?

I was never a fan of the cleric having to have both wisdom (spells) and charisma (channels) in 1E. Still not a fan of it in 2E.

I also feel like it was a poorly thought out concept. They could have fit it in the format, made it not super boring and yet fun. I know a lot of people who played clerics that didn't focus on healing or care for channeling (I though they were a bit crazy) so I feel like this would have been a great doctrine or even make it into a focus spell not pithing a domain.


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Then you add healers blessing. That adds more healing.

Then if you want to really add more healing you can pick up the sorcerer bloodline picking up angelic halo, you can heal an make your divine font even better. Then throw on the Staff of Healing.

So I am ok with the cleric getting only 1 + Cha.

Then with the addition of godless healing in the game Battle medic will be nicer.

Also I think Paizo wanted to reduce the dependency on magic healing. That is why treat deadly wounds is so nice and useful


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Ravingdork wrote:

Thank you for trying to clarify it for me, but I'm afraid I'm still confused.

So if I cast a sustained 1 minute spell, and sustained it for the full minute, would I be fatigued at the end?

If I cast a sustained spell (10 minutes), and sustained it for the full ten minutes, I would be fatigued at the end.

If I cast a sustained 1 hour spell, and sustained it for the full hour, would I be fatigued at the end?

If the answer is yes to all of the above, then it creates an interesting "some spells are more taxing than others" dynamic.

I read it that as you sustained a spell to its duration it ends then you become fatigued. So if the max duration is 1 minute then after 1 minute it ends and you are fatigued. But if you stopped sustaining a spell before the maximum duration then it doesn't fatigue you.

You could even argue that the max duration isn't even 10 minutes doesn't end it. It says more than. So I read that you could go to 10 minutes and then be good. Than anything after 10 minutes is up it ends. Is this 1 second more? Minute?

Sustaining a Spell for more than 10 minutes (100 rounds) ends the spell

I say yes to all of your above questions.


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I would assume it would just be the DC of the Poison.


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I would say that you need to use the Interact to put both hands on the weapon. This shows the passing of the passing from one hand to another. Then you must use the Release action to let go.

As far as I saw there is no Main Hand or Off Hand.


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The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
Micheal Smith wrote:
Any info about the companion system, like feats etc. The laser pup?
** spoiler omitted **

Sounds Awesome. Something my Biohacker, Dr. Tentacles M.D. could use. Are there rules for building your own companion? What are the general stats, in comparison to PC? Do they improve, like how the drone companion works?


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Any info about the companion system, like feats etc. The laser pup?


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Companion system based on feats, interesting. I have been waiting for this. Was kind of hoping for a class that specialized in this, but I think I like this even more.

Why can’t my books ship yet. The wait is killing me.


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Am I missing something here

Variation by Level: The Second Edition campaign grants each participating PC an amount of wealth based on that PC’s level, no matter the adventure’s tier or the subtier used. For example, a Tier 1–4 scenario would grant 52 gp for a 1st-level PC and 152 to a 3rd-level PC, whether they played Subtier 1–2 or 3–4.

I don’t understand where the 52gp for a first level character is coming from. I thought 14gp was the max a 1st level chat we could earn.


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Not sure if this is in the right place.

The 2nd level boom says you start out with 30 gp. Now if you actually play those scenarios you would in theory be able to get a max of 57. Assuming you find all 10 treasure bundles in each scenario.

For the 3rd level boon you get 75gp and the max you get if you played is 123gp. Am I missing something? It almost seems just to play and not spend you PTP on these boons?


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I can try and find a link that can help print the cards pretty cheap. It was really cheap, something like $8 for some 50-100 cards. I can't remember the exacts. But you cot to choose the yardstick and then if it was in a metal tin. That could be a viable option.

I was looking into this back when I was designing Boon cards for Stqarfinder Society Factions. But I really like the way they look.


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GM Lamplighter wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Or more, for example if you're a field commissioned agent with 12 days of downtime.
You don't get 12 days of downtime, you make 50% more income in those 8 days. I thought?
Quote:
However, the character’s fewer obligations afford them additional free time, increasing the amount of Downtime they receive after each adventure by 50% (12 Downtime days earned after a scenario rather than 8).

So I would assume they get to checks. I solely base this off the wording found under Earn Income:

Quote:
including units where you complete multiple activities, such as spending 7 days retraining and then 1 day Earning Income

Based on that It seems that Iif I spend 7 days retraining I do so. Then with my last day I earn income. So in the case of Field-Commissioned Agents they do their 8 days of earning income then with the other 4 they could do it again.

If this isn’t the case then outside of crafting I don’t see any point of being Field-Commissioned Agents. Retraining is irrelevant because it would still take 2 separate downtime’s to complete for anything over 7 days.


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I hope this doesn't take more than a month to get printer friendly version. Also to get the mistakes fixed. If I am going to pay for something I expect it to be usable. Or I would like a refund.


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This is simply 10 + the total modifier for that saving throw.

See pg. 449 Right under the Will saving throw calculation.


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wraithstrike wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
Am I safe in assuming the extra d8 above is coming from the Precision Hunter's Edge? If so, why isn't it granted to the archer as well?

Because he gave the archer reduced MAP instead. Which is better for an archer.

What is MAP?

Multiple Attack Penalty


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I think the artwork for Merisiel on 178 is pretty lame and one of the worse.

I definitely love the artwork for Seoni compared to the 1st edition artwork. Definitely my favorite artwork of the core class iconics, on pages 190 and 195. Haven't looked through all the artwork yet, not sure how much more of her there is.

I really like the wolf on page 216. Love the eyes and the black fur.

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