Shield guardian and sentient wax golems

[JcCrest]

Am I able to craft a sentient wax golem of my own character and make it my own shield guardian?
I was thinking of setting up a situation where other characters think of us as twins, and he'd be a melee and I would be a caster. I am curious if this would work in the conventional rules and if it would be possible for a level 9 character that I might be making soon (if my current character's insanity causes my party to oust or kill me).

[Drachasor]

"Look Raist, bunnies!"

I think it would work. And if the Wax Golem is crafted to look like your non-existent twin, then it won't try to kill you if it becomes sentient.

The only tricky thing is how sentience and the amulet interact. Since it is clear the latter didn't consider sentient golems. Given that it stops beserking though, it would be reasonable to conclude it should quell any rebellious thoughts the golem might have (e.g. killing you and taking the amulet so it has no master).

If I was the DM, I'd probably have it interpret "regards the wearer as its master" as "regards the wearer as its brother" or something like that. Or at least not mind the control when you had it.

Though it would be pretty easy for it to lose sentience to fire damage.

[JcCrest]

Thanks for the clarification. If I had any money remaining after crafting, I would attempt to get it all fire resistances I dang well could. Is it possible, and if so what would you suggest?

[Drachasor]

Not a lot of great options.

Casting Energy Resistance is cheap and scales. The duration of 10 min/level is not bad.

If you can craft rings, then a Ring of Energy Shroud isn't too bad (about 10k to craft). It can negate one attack per day.

A Ring of Resistance can also work, but they can be a bit pricey. Armor can also be enchanted. There's a 50% mark-up on armor enchanting to resist energy, but constructs can be enchanted like armor, so this is a route you could go.

I'd see if the DM will let you make a Wax Golem with extra hit dice, since its HP will be an issue. They aren't all that tough, unfortunately.

On the other hand, cold damage can give them temporary hit points, which should stack. If you can do some cheap cold spells and guarantee at least 3 points of damage, this would be a way to buff survivability.

[williamoak]

Interesting idea. I'll note it down for my construct crafting guide.

[JcCrest]

So, from the sounds of it, I should be a ice/water school wizard with magic item crafting, and abjuration spells?

I imagine being poor after crafting the golem, so having spells do some protecting work for me, would be great.

Any idea on how creating a sentient golem character would work? Can it take feats, or does it just get skill points?

[williamoak]

There are few rules for creating golems, and almost none as pertaining to sentient golems. Your first priority should be to get into a discussion with your GM (who will decide what is ok in the end anyway), then check the monster creation rules.

http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/monsterCreation.html

The table "Table: Statistics Summary" should give you relations for saves/feats. The table "Table: Creature Statistics by Type" will give you bab, skill points, etc. for a construct specifically.

Now, if you want it to be MORE than a construct (like start gaining class levels), you should probably look into getting the leadership feat. Otherwise, the only difference betwwen a sentient & non sentient golem would be the type of feats they are able to take. (though it's hard to define)

[JcCrest]

Thanks for all the assistance. This was a huge help.

What it sounds like is that I should make a water/ice wizard with resist energy buffs, and spending my last remaining money on getting some rings. As I level up, I will have to take the golem constructor discovery and may want to also take the arcane builder (for resist rings or for the golem).

As for the golem, I will probably ask the GM if it can start sentient for purposes of getting the feats, but maybe not have him modelled after myself in case (unless this is the flavor that the GM lets me do this on). I will then have to make him with feats and skills based on him being a classless monster with its assigned stats.

Any other advice, questions, comments, concerns? I want to know everything I can, so ask/say/comment away.

[williamoak]

Well, I cant help you much on the sentience front, but you can check out my construct crafting guide.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q7je?williamoaks-guide-to-construct-crafting

Gives general advice on crafting constructs & such, but I will admit it's unfinished (I've been distracted lately). Unfortunately, constructs are expensive, and the current campaign I'm playing (where I wanted to test out my ideas) is a little lower gold than I had hoped.

One thing you shouldnt forget is that unless you upgrade it frequently, the golem will NOT grow with you. It could really be worth it (since the construct is sentient) to take leadership & treat it as a monstrous cohort. It could easily qualify as low as level 7 (the minimum level for leadership).

One problem I can see appearing is that the wax golem would be a leser shield golem (unfortunately). Dont forget it has exceedingly low stats, which will be hard to compensate for. A (potentially) better option would be to give a different construct sentience (there are several), though it is a property that is hard to price.

Although a few questions that could help me help you:
-What level are you?
-What gold do you have available?
-Are you crafting yourself?
-What's your spellcraft check (if previous yes)/spells available (for crafting)?

This is a good exercise for me too.

[Mwahahaha!!]

I have created an account purely for the purpose of replying to this thread. In response to wiliamoak's "One thing you shouldnt forget is that unless you upgrade it frequently, the golem will NOT grow with you." That is not true, as it says here:( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-wa x )That when it gains sentience it gains the ability to take levels in classes, with the ability to gain more. Essentially it would function as a weird Nth character in your party at that point, albeit with awesome construct traits like invulnerablility to most magic and could gain its own xp, have its own alignment, so on/so forth. I'm not sure about scaling HD though, as the wax golem starts with a certain amount of HD, and I don't know whether it would gain HD from its class levels or simply stay at that same amount.

Anywho, just wanted to reply because I was thinking the same thing, but think about this for a second as well... Wax golem shield gaurdian becomes a synthesist summoner. OWO

[williamoak]

Mwahahaha!! wrote:

I have created an account purely for the purpose of replying to this thread. In response to wiliamoak's "One thing you shouldnt forget is that unless you upgrade it frequently, the golem will NOT grow with you." That is not true, as it says here:( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-wa x )That when it gains sentience it gains the ability to take levels in classes, with the ability to gain more. Essentially it would function as a weird Nth character in your party at that point, albeit with awesome construct traits like invulnerablility to most magic and could gain its own xp, have its own alignment, so on/so forth. I'm not sure about scaling HD though, as the wax golem starts with a certain amount of HD, and I don't know whether it would gain HD from its class levels or simply stay at that same amount.

Anywho, just wanted to reply because I was thinking the same thing, but think about this for a second as well... Wax golem shield gaurdian becomes a synthesist summoner. OWO

Yeah, I dont think a GM would allow that. While a sentient golem CAN gain class levels, I cant see a GM allowing you to have your Nth character without at least the leadership feat. Then again, there is NO precedent for a player having a sentient golem; the text is written with the belief that the wax golem is acting independantly. In any case, there simply isnt enough precedent about dealing with sentient constructs.

[Mwahahaha!!]

williamoak wrote:

Mwahahaha!! wrote:

I have created an account purely for the purpose of replying to this thread. In response to wiliamoak's "One thing you shouldnt forget is that unless you upgrade it frequently, the golem will NOT grow with you." That is not true, as it says here:( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-wa x )That when it gains sentience it gains the ability to take levels in classes, with the ability to gain more. Essentially it would function as a weird Nth character in your party at that point, albeit with awesome construct traits like invulnerablility to most magic and could gain its own xp, have its own alignment, so on/so forth. I'm not sure about scaling HD though, as the wax golem starts with a certain amount of HD, and I don't know whether it would gain HD from its class levels or simply stay at that same amount.

Anywho, just wanted to reply because I was thinking the same thing, but think about this for a second as well... Wax golem shield gaurdian becomes a synthesist summoner. OWO

Yeah, I dont think a GM would allow that. While a sentient golem CAN gain class levels, I cant see a GM allowing you to have your Nth character without at least the leadership feat. Then again, there is NO precedent for a player having a sentient golem; the text is written with the belief that the wax golem is acting independantly. In any case, there simply isnt enough precedent about dealing with sentient constructs.

Yeah, that makes sense. Although, as far as sentience vs shield gaurdian control, I think that in order to make a sentient wax golem do something it didn't want to would there would need to be a battle of wills, but the wax golem itself might see you as it's creator(possibly parent) already, so the amulet is only really useful as a safety measure if that's the case. I dunno, this whole thing is really up to the gm, by creating a wax golem you're basically entering "do androids dream of electric sheep" territory, and this whole philosophical issue has been explored in literally thousands of books, such as Frankenstein.

[williamoak]

Yeah, I guess we're getting philosophical;

As for the wax golem, it's pretty clear that without direct control, it will try to kill it's likeness since the OP seems to want to make it look like him, it's not just a safety measure, It's essential.

[Drachasor]

williamoak wrote:

Yeah, I guess we're getting philosophical;

As for the wax golem, it's pretty clear that without direct control, it will try to kill it's likeness since the OP seems to want to make it look like him, it's not just a safety measure, It's essential.

Yes, well, you avoid that by modelling it after someone that doesn't exist. Like a fictional brother. Then you treat it as such when it gains sentience. It should want to stay and be the brother. Theoretically. Up to the DM, of course.

[Mwahahaha!!]

Drachasor wrote:

williamoak wrote:

Yeah, I guess we're getting philosophical;

As for the wax golem, it's pretty clear that without direct control, it will try to kill it's likeness since the OP seems to want to make it look like him, it's not just a safety measure, It's essential.

Yes, well, you avoid that by modelling it after someone that doesn't exist. Like a fictional brother. Then you treat it as such when it gains sentience. It should want to stay and be the brother. Theoretically. Up to the DM, of course.

Exactly, also, seeing as there's a large possibility this golem will think it's alive, imagine how freaked out it would be if it took a heap of fire damage and started melting like a candle?