How can you defeat Lucifer?


Advice

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We are a party of 5 lvl20 adventurers and we know we will be facing lucifer (cr39) next month. Our dm gives us the possibility to create any equipment we want using any book(no pre-created allowed) to challenge him. How is it possible to defeat him?

Personnally I believe that he wasn't created to ever be de-throned.


+5 Holy Anarchic Evil-Outsider-Bane (weapon of choice here) for everyone.


For those who whish to see thou beast: https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/bestiary/monster-listings/outsi ders/devil/devils-unique/devil-lucifer-prince-of-darkness-tohc


lvl 20 vs cr 39 i dont think you stand a chance.
Sr would be extremly high so no spells with sr will work on him.
Use spells with no sr and no save if possible.
I would advice any meele character to pick up a +5 holy evil outsider bane weapon and just maybe u can bypass dr if you even can hit him.
Other then getting a few artifacts i really cant see how you would could win.
Maybe you could make a deal with another outsider/deity to aid you in the fight.

Shadow Lodge

Gotta love the Tome of Horrors.

Liberty's Edge

Make sure your weapons are also Silver to stop the regeneration.

Sovereign Court

Are you fighting him in hell? Because if so, you're not just fighting him; you're fighting every arch-devil too.

Also, if you can't all consistently make DC 40 Fort and Will saves, you might as well give up.

Rod of Infernus wrote:

The Rod of Infernus has the following abilities:

Annihilation Ray: Once per round, and no more than five times per day, the rod can fire a ray to a range of 60 feet. A creature struck by this ray must succeed on a DC 40 Fortitude save or be annihilated instantly—not even a trace of dust is left behind. No form of mortal magic can restore life to a creature annihilated by this ray. Lucifer or a deity can restore the annihilated creature to life using magic.

Rod of Rulership: The rod has all of the abilities and powers of a rod of rulership.

Trap the Soul: Once per round, and no more than three times per day, the rod can fire a ray of hellish-red energy to a range of 60 feet that functions as a trap the soul spell (CL 20th). A target can make a DC 40 Will save to resist the effects. If failed, the victim’s soul vanishes into Lucifer’s rod. Up to 10 such souls can be held in the rod at one time. A trapped soul may be freed by grasping the rod and speaking a command word.

You should ask your DM if you can be at level 30 or 40. At 20 you have literally no chance.


You're doomed.


I don't believe a level 20 party can survive this encounter. Maybe 25 or 30, probably doable at 35, and certainly at 40 with the right builds. Note: Descent into Evil is, by far, the most ridiculous ability on this monstrosity.


lets see the defenses

AC 74
CMD 105

Fort +32, Ref +37, Will +38

SR 50

There is no way a party of lvl 20 can reliably hurt this creature.

The Exchange

Paladin19/ gunslinger 1

Super saves, displacement effects...

Are there any no SR non poison save or dies? Spam and hope for a 1?

Portable hole and bag of holding to get out of hell...


Every character who can cast Gate needs to use it to gate in a CR 40 Good outsider. Agree to anything they ask to get them to fight for you.


His touch ac is only 38 ... I think a +5 holy devils bane gun may help but you will die.


Using any book and you guys have free reign over item creation?

+100 Holy Anarchic Evil-Outsider-Bane Weapon handed down by Iomedae herself.

It has a summon creature spell on it that calls down Iomedae and her Heralds and a magic spell that bypasses everything and results in an instant kill on a successful attack roll of 2. Other than that, I'd say just pray a whole hell of a lot (pun intended) for some divine intervention on your part.


OK did your DM say "facing him" or "fighting him". Because there is NO WAY short of a very properly worded DM allowed Wish spell that stand having a chance. I would think of alternatives to fighting, out smarting him for example. Or a little cliche...making a deal with the devil.

Shadow Lodge

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Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Are you fighting him in hell? Because if so, you're not just fighting him; you're fighting every arch-devil too.

Actually, if you use the included lore, fighting him in Hell would probably give you the best chance, as Asmodeus would undoubtedly send everything he had against Lucifer. So the legions of devils and all the arch-devils would be fighting with you, against him.

Fighting him in Infernus....that would be a different story.

Scarab Sages

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How to defeat Lucifer?

Bring a really, really good lawyer and hope you get lucky.


I'll repeat myself. CAST GATE!

Liberty's Edge

In a physical fight, you're doomed. Honestly, at lvl 20 you do not stand a chance.

Legally, though? If you have a lvl 20 bard with maxed out ranks in Profession: Lawyer and every single possible bonus stacked on that, you may be able to work out a contract that defeats him. Aid another to increase his result.

Shadow Lodge

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The best way to defeat Lucifer: not fight him.

Dark Archive

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with love

Scarab Sages

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Gate: THE DOCTOR!

/cue theme song

Seriously, he already beat the devil once. I'm sure he can do it again >_>

Silver Crusade

Do not fight him in hell. (Unless you have all Archdevils on your side)

Create your own demiplane and lure him there somehow, a plane with no magic would be ideal.

Other cheesy stuff later.


My suggestion?

Make a deal with him to help out his conquest of Hell versus Asmodeus. All paladins should very willingly accept the transformation to Antipaladins. After that, try and stay on his good side :p

Silver Crusade

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Ok I got some tactics for you:

- craft some orange prism ioun stones to increase the caster level of you spellcaster, then make some simulacrums of Lucifer, sure they only have half his HD, but it is still very useful.

Antimagic field is your friend, call (gate) some hard to kill creatures, and give them scrolls of antimagic field, their only job is to move into distance whenever Lucifer tries to cast or use a spell like ability.
Unlike some other nasty critters, Lucifer has very few immunities and resistances, so in theory he could be killed my negative levels (until he uses greater restoration).
He is not immune to death effects, so if you find a way to increase your CL to beat his CR or lower his CR (new enhancement in UE) you could just wait for him to fail his save
Avoiding the gaze attack might be tricky, maybe shapeshift into something with blindsense

-If you can actually bring a new character to the party, a hexcrafter magus, with the coven hex and some witches with the hex (of simulacrums with said hex) allow the magus to increase his caster level as high as he wants (limited by the number of witches you can fit within 30 ft of the magus – but that includes witches on broomsticks) with this high casterlevel he fills his dozens of spell storing daggers with nasty spells – like an intensified shocking grasp or vampiric touch.

Preparation for the combat: there is really no excuse no to be buffed to the limit. Everybody take one of those CL 40 + vampiric touch daggers and use it on a summoned monster with a lot of hp. This should give you some temporary hp (or even a lot of the magus used a metagmagic rod of maximize spell and/or a critical hit)
Use every buff spell you can get your hands on from mirror image to heroism and heroism greater – for the fear immunity ...

-Now you just have to hit him:
a witch at level 8 (or another character with access to the hex) can use evil eye to lower his AC by 4 for one round even if he saves
use the spell http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tactical-acumen to increase your bonus from flanking and from being on higher ground
grapple him (possible with a telekinesis with an insanely high CL)

Of course some spells without SR might be a real option:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/clashing-rocks
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/caustic-eruption


I think this won't work.

Too many monumental powers to try to combat without an extremely powerful Army on your side. Try and Chain-Gate in a heavenly Host or Demonic Horde.

Hmmm..... Maybe if you had AM BARBARIAN, and caught him outside of Infernus......


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High ranks in perform (fiddle).


Spam Gate and throw Behemoths at Lucifer. He only has so many actions a turn anyway. Eventually he's going to be bogged down. If you can get your caster's CL to 22 you can auto control the strongest behemoths.

Don't stand too close to him though.

EDIT: He doesn't have evasion so anything that ignores SR and half saves will affect him. (Behemoth abilities, dragon breaths, etc)


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
High ranks in perform (fiddle).

...true I do notice a distinct lack of Perform (Fiddle) on his stat block. They didn't say you had to beat him in combat did they?


Need more details of the classes of the characters...

But, during your downtime, 5 wishes, one for each PC.
"If I am ever engaged in combat with Lucifer, Prince of Darkness, I will win initiative over him".

It probably also involves multiple stacked Time Stops, and a bunch of summoning... He's not immune to ability damage or negative levels...

if you can use any book, can you use the custom summoning rules from Inner Sea Magic, pg 30? You should be able to do it at that point.

Also, does "any book" include 3.5 stuff?

Grand Lodge

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Random facts:
In the bible, Lucifer does not reside within hell, and does not rule it. Basically, God gave him free reign to screw with people on earth until Armageddon, then he get screwed like everyone else.
In fact, the "Hell" as we know it, is never described within the bible.
Most of that comes from Dante's Inferno.
Also, he is described as a beautiful angel, and the horned look came later as a way of demonizing Greek religion and mythology, by using the god Pan as the symbol of evil.

Now you know,
and knowing, is half the battle.


He still can't see in a fog cloud. And his initiative is a pitiful +12.
... I don't know a way to keep him from just teleporting away.


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Why would he even bother with your group?

Liberty's Edge

There are a few factors here.

SR 50 = Spells 95% ineffective (not 100% certain a nat 20 auto succeeds

AC 74 = Normal melee attacks 95% ineffective, touch attacks would have a 50/50 hit chance with the 38 touch

100% Pit Fiend summoning = 1 to 3 CR20 extra creatures, each with the Wish ability in addition to it's other spells.

DC 29 will save Blasphemy(at-will) = failed save on any withing 40 feet is a dead character

DC 31 Dominate Monster( at-will) = You party meat shield is now the monsters meat shield on a failed save

Greater Invisibility (at-will) = Everyone will need true seeing.

This is more of a story encounter with a log of hand-waving by the GM. Letting the dice tell the story makes with a TPK all the way. There is no way five level 20's will be able to do 1000 damage.

CR ratings are based on 4 characters, so 4 level 39 characters should be challenged

**
EDIT: Just noticed the DC 47 fear aura as well. That would negate any possibility of melee unless you are immune to fear


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Random facts:

In the bible, Lucifer does not reside within hell, and does not rule it. Basically, God gave him free reign to screw with people on earth until Armageddon, then he get screwed like everyone else.
In fact, the "Hell" as we know it, is never described within the bible.
Most of that comes from Dante's Inferno.
Also, he is described as a beautiful angel, and the horned look came later as a way of demonizing Greek religion and mythology, by using the god Pan as the symbol of evil.

Now you know,
and knowing, is half the battle.

We're talking about the Tome of Horrors Lucifer, not the biblical one.


...Pun-Pun? <_< Seriously though, what you basically want here is a ton of actions, so...lots of gated in celestials (or hell, demons or something even)spaced out enough so he can't hit everything. If you get enough of them, there are enough natural 20s and such that one of them will get through with a SoD or whatever.


Heh, currently, assuming replies to my questions end up the way I'm expecting right now. I say 1 20th level sorcerer...and a hell of a lot of money spent on gear.


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I recommend bringing the DM cookies. That'll help.


on top of a million summoned things, give everyone leadership? for more potential 20s


Bomb Alchemists.


Sphere of Annihilation would be good too, if you can somehow keep him from getting control of it and using it against you.


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All right them, assuming Inner Sea Magic is legal

1 primary arcane caster, assuming Sorcerer 20 (a wizard should also be able to pull this off)

arrange your feats to have Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning. Maximum ranks in Knowledge(Planes) is also reccommended.

Either already be a member or join the Acadamae organization presented on page 20 of Inner Sea Magic.

Use Taking 20, the Acadamae Library and casting MOMENT OF PRESCIENCE to research Lucifer and his weaknesses. Your check will be at least 60 (take 20+20 ranks+20 Moment of Prescience). Drive this check as high as you can (bardic inspiration, aid another checks, good libraries, contacting outer planes, whatever)!! DC should be 15+39 = 54...

Gain at least 3PP, if necessary by donating Conjuration radiating magic items (starting from a 0PP base, this will cost 1000+2000+3000 gp).

Learn the Summoning Specialization Award for 3PP, and add Greater Shadow (a CR 8 creature) to your SM VI summonable creatures list.

Buy a ring of 3 wishes, and use 1 immediately:
"I wish that if I am ever engaged in combat with Lucifer, Prince of Darkness, I will win initiative over him".

Precast True Seeing

Go get in your fight with Lucifer...

You will win initiative - precast WISH

Cast a quickened Mage's disjunction on Lucifer, using metamagic rod of Greater quicken. This should eliminate most (if any) pre-cast defensive effects.

have your familiar switch metamagic rods from your hand

cast TIME STOP, using metamagic rod of greater maximize - 5 rounds

TS round 1-4) cast SUMMON MONSTER VIII four times. Summon 4d4+8 Greater Shadows. Place all Greater Shadows within 40 ft of Lucifer - closer is better. Note that they fly - they don't have to be positioned on the ground. Do cluster them relatively tightly, do they can all be affected by a single haste spell.

TS round 5) cast TIME STOP, using metamagic rod of greater maximize - 5 rounds

TS rounds 6&7) cast SUMMON MONSTER VIII two times. Summon 2d4+4 Greater Shadows. Continue to follow previous placement guidelines. This is a minimum of 18 Greater Shadows.

TS round 8) Use WISH from ring of 3 wishes. "I wish that all the Greater Shadows that I have summoned during these nested Time Stop spells are affected as if each of them had individually cast True Strike: a +20 on their next to hit roll"

TS round 9) cast HASTE on as many of your summoned shadows as you can affect

TS round 10) Use WISH from ring of 3 wishes. "I wish that all the Greater Shadows that I have summoned during these nested Time Stop spells will do maximum strength damage on their next successful attack"

After Time Stop Ends - summoned critters act on your initiative. Order the Shadows to attack, taking advantage of both flanking positions and their hasted state to achieve them.

Lucifer is Flat footed, as he has not achieved his first initiative yet. "A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability."

Lucifer does not have Uncanny Dodge nor Combat Reflexes. He has a flat-footed touch AC of 30.

He is attacked a minimum of 18 times. At a +34 (+11 monster +1 haste +20 True Strike, +2 Flanking). He should be hit at least 16 times. For 8 points of strength damage apiece. He is not immune to ability damage. He is not immune to negative energy effects. He had 38 Strength. He is dead... Assuming your DM didn't give Lucifer anything more than the straight stat block.

PS. Frog God Games did a poor job with that stat block. A unique, near Diety level, CR 39 outsider should have far more immunities and defenses than this... For example, immunity to negative levels and ability damage.

Liberty's Edge

To be clear, you're not just dealing with a CR 39 creature that has about 1000 hit points. You're dealing with a CR 39 creature who is able to summon 1-3 CR 20 creatures, each with 350 HP. Also, Lucifer has a single mass heal spell prepared, so you can expect to tack on another 190 hit points to himself.

Lucifer can Quicken his fireball spell-like ability, which means he can toss around 10d6 points of fire damage with a DC 25 Ref save for half as a swift action three times per day. And that's assuming your DM is going to go by the books rather than saying that the fires of Lucifer are empowered by his divine might and let him ignore the CL cap (in which case, you could be facing up to 39d6 fire damage as a swift action).

Additionally, Lucifer can force any creature that is looking at him to make a DC 47 Will save or have a 75% chance of losing each action.

Or, you know, he just gives you a -8 penalty to all your saving throws and then annihilates you.

I honestly don't know how you expect to fight against a creature that is able to cast wish 9 times per day. At the very least, that is 9 additional heal spells, effectively granting Lucifer an additional 1350 hit points, if he doesn't just up and wish you dead.

20th level characters are the epitome of superhumans. They are everything that mortals strive to be. But they are still only human, and still very much mortal. An epic character could be considered a demigod in some respects, but you guys aren't epic, and there's no way that 5 mortals could ever challenge an archangel, let alone one that has transformed into a god.

Dark Archive

if you have a human cleric he can bypass the SR with no problems

Human favored class bonus +20, cleric level 20 +20, Spell penetration +2, Greater spell pen +2 is a +44 on the SR check which means you pass on a 6 (add in an orange Ioun stone, use rod of elemental spell lightning to switch to lightning damage and then just do 2000 lightning damage and he dies)

Grand Lodge

Scolls of wish?


Lucifer doesn't have
a) True Seeing, or any other relevant detection ability other than constant see invisible
b) Freedom of Movement
c) Swift-action teleportation.

Also, he doesn't have proper gaze attacks, he has standard action single-target debuffs.

So, any competent party can last a good while in this fight. I'm stumped on how to actually kill him though.


well there is the option of the insane vivisectionist with double barreled guns that has to catch him flat-footed and makes him unconscious using sap master and underhanded.

But aside from such crazy builds that only work if Lucifer stands right in front of you and wants a one on one match, I would go with other ideas.

Ask Asmodeus for help who can contract other gods to kill Lucifer.
Release the Tarrasque in hell.
Have a bloody big mob with leadership, equip them with vorpal swords and hope for lots of 20ies to roll.

Edit:
How about an adamantine golem with an intelligent item with special purpose "Kill Lucifer" and casting antimagic aura at will. This should take away every magic advantage Lucifer has, and he has no means to kill the golem. If the golem finds it difficult to grapple the prince of light and darkness, just get a few more adamantine golems in there.

Shadow Lodge

Since the topic seems to have gone from "defeating" him to outright killing him, I'd say it's even more impossible. You'd be hard pressed to actually even make him retreat.

Some of you are also presuming that Lucifer is going to actually enter the physical fight himself. Very doubltful. Only if you begin to make a serious dent in the legions of Infernus will he actually enter the fight himself...or get out of dodge.


I don't see him personally entering into battle. If he does at all he would wear the party down with legions of pitfiends and other higher level devils first. He also will not fight at all if it is not on his terms, assuming the GM plays him to win anyway.

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