ImperatorK's page

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Lol, nevermind. Don't know what it was, but I logged out and logged in again and it's fine.

Didn't work. :(
If they're trying to ban me then they at least could do it properly, damn it.

Or profiles of others. What's going on?

Stifle that creativity! Stifle it until there's only MMO players left!

15 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.

FAQ it.
I'm probably shooting myself in the foot, because knowing Paizo they rule it so it won't make any sense, but whatever.

Vital Strike only doubles weapon damage. And I'm not sure, but it can be argued that you only get temp HP for damage that the spell deals, which means 1d6/2 CL.

The area is what is created by the spell. Description says there needs t be vegetation. It doesn't say it has to be 40 ft. radius.

Yes it does, it clearly states the area of effect is "plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread" and if this is the only plant, it's all that is effected.

No, the spell only cares if there's some vegetation it can use. no mention on how much.

If the Area creates plants within the area of effect as you purport, why then do you need to throw a pot-plant into the area of effect for it to work?

Because the spell clearly states that there must be SOME vegetation it can use.

Let's look at another example, circle of death. It says: "Area several living creatures within a 40-ft.-radius burst" does this mean that (by your interpretation of entangle that the Area is what the spell creates) the entire area fills with living creatures that are then effected? Or does this mean that only living creatures within the area of effect stated are effected?

It creates an effect on this area- it kills the living creatures.

Yes, it's the latter.

IMO it can be either.

Hence the Entangle spell only works on plants that are within the area. It does not grow them, it does not spread them over the area, it merely allows the plants that exist within the area to entangle those persons unlucky enough to be stood in their square.

I see nothing in the rules that indicate that.

#1- Nope. If this were the Druid intentionally sending his Animal Companion into a fight where it knew it was going to get killed or using Handle Animal to send a group of animals into a dungeon to set off traps then I would agree. But, at this point your arguments aren't the same because they are summoned creatures. If we were to play by the rules you are setting forth then everyone that uses summoned creatures for combat would have to be chaotic evil.

By your interpretation the Druid falls! You can't come up with an argument and then apply it selectively. It's a slippery slope. If in your game a Druid falls for using a potted plant, he falls for animal cruelty. Simple.

#2- Read the OP before posting responses to people that are posting responses to the OP.

I did. So?

#3- I'd pay money to see a druid throw a potted plant 50 ft. with a -8 to hit. If thats his strategy (and I'm sure its not) he isn't a power gamer he is a moron.


He only needs to throw it in 40 ft. radius from the enemy. And it's not that hard to throw it where he wants. The AC is 5, IIRC.

they are going to not be able to fight two handed

He's either casting or fighting. And why should he fight two handed? Druids aren't that big on fighting in melee, unless wildshaped.

cast somatic spells while holding a weapon (they are carrying a plant in the other hand)

If he's casting then why does he need a weapon in his hand? If he's adjacent to an enemy, why is he casting and provoking AoOs?

Regardless, he'll throw the plant and his hands will be free to do anything he wants.

make them explain how they are keeping it alive

I suggested the same thing.

not being thought completely insane for being a guy walking around with a potted plant

Yeah. A Druid caring a plant is insane. That tiger or wolf accompanying him is normal, but a plant in a pot is too much.

If when I say the above they say I'm being cruel, they are just being a jackass.

I would say you're being cruel, because most of this things are either non-issues or totally situational. You're just saying whatever you can think of to s+~! on one little trick which isn't even overpowered, it just allows a Druid to use one of his better spells in a place where normally he couldn't. The DM is being a jackass.

Reread how summons work you have it wrong...when reduced to zero they simply return to their plane of existance...nothing says they die forever.

Oh. So unless they die, it's okay? It doesn't matter that they suffer? That's animal cruelty. Druid loses powers!

And throwing it isn't bad...INTENTIONALLY LIGHTING IT ON FIRE IS! Its premeditated plant murder!

Sorry, but I said nothing about burning anything. My only argument here is that using a plant in a pot isn't cheating or wrong.

Again you can only throw the plant 10 ft and the area is 40 ft radius, so therefore you just trapped yourself and all of your travelling companions along with the enemy.

Things can be thrown up to 5 times it's increment. Or 4. Regardless, further then 10 ft.

Which covers maybe a 1'x1' square. So A 1'x1' square inside the entire area of effect has sufficient vegetation to entangle a foe. Gosh. Oh, and as it was thrown in a pot-plant, it isn't securely rooted, so it won't stop anyone from moving.

All requirements that the spell doesn't care for.

No, it's way beyond that.

No, not really.

It's just blatant misinterpretation of the rules in a manner no sane, experienced DM would allow.

So every DM I ever knew is insane?

Most munchkins think this about themselves.

So now being creative equals munchkins? Lol.

No, but it is a game with rules that regulate actions so that no-body can just say "I win!"

Good that no rules are broken then.

Note that the Area says clearly "plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread" if the pot-plant is the only plant in the area, it is the only plant effected.

The Area part id what the spell creates, not what it needs to work.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Abusing that poor plant and killing it intentionally IMO is not reverent.

And summoning animals to fight for him and get slaughtered is? Also the plant isn't killed. It shrinks back to normal after the spell is over. Taking a Druids powers for something like that is a jerk move and punishing a player for using his head.

Re: Entangle
The spell needs plants. If there's no plants, the player uses his own plant in a pot. It works. It's not powergaming. It's not cheating. It's being smart and creative. This isn't a computer game where you can do only what's scripted. It's an RPG. Only your imagination and rules are the limit (sometimes not even rules). Just remember that if he's not caring for the plant, it might die and be unusable to him.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
It is power gaming when he specifically manipulates the rules in his favor to make him significantly more powerful than the average hero, or even major boss monsters.

That's not powergaming.

Carried around a small potted plant, would start every combat by throwing it towards the enemy, then cast entangle to root everything, then throw alchemist's fire in order to catch the plants on fire and burn everything to the ground.

That's not powergaming. That's playing smart.

his stats are usually 18-20 in the primary stat of his class, 16-17 in whatever secondary he has, and 6-8 in everything else.


His feats/traits/flaws he would choose would be the best min/max he could do for it, as well as min/max his skill choices.

I'd need a little more info on that one. Because it's pretty normal to take options that are helpful. And what does min/maxing skill choices even mean? He's maxing the skills he's going to use?

One game he built a silver tongued bard that at level 2 had something like a +20 to diplomacy and bluff specifically so he could trick or coerce NPCs into somehow killing themselves.

He can't do that.

He mainly powergames in the "do everything to ruin how the encounters play out" way. He's the kind of player that would use a Locate City bomb because it is legal and breaks the game.

He's a munchkin then. Maybe also a powergamer (although not a good one), but that's actually not the problem here. Don't invite him. He'll ruin everybody's fun either through powergaming or just by being a douche and cheater. And he doesn't even like the adventure path.

Steve Geddes wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Feat's not much harder. I banned 3E Persistent Spell. Done. Pretty simple.

Any effect that says, "I don't care what your duration was, it's 24 hours now. And it's the same cost for every spell, whether it lasts 1 round or hour/level normally" is just plainly broken, and I weep for anyone who cannot comprehend that.

It's fine really. We're happy in our ignorance.

No, you're not. You just don't know it.

3 people marked this as a favorite.

He sounds more like a douche and munchkin then a powergamer.
I don't see mentioned what types of characters he's making or how does he "powergame". Because what you call powergaming might not be powergaming at all. I've seen that happen.

Broodmaster changes Eidolon to Eidolon Brood, but the changes from First Worlder can still be technically applied. RAW it's most probably not possible, but it's not unreasonable to bend the rules a little here, right?

Also, can I make the eidolon small or tiny without taking Broodmaster? I want to make a familiar-like eidolon, but I don't really like the idea of having multiple weaker eidolons.

What points are you talking about? Don't treat debating as a competition (because it isn't one).

That's not double and it's more than 1 feat.

If you got CWI and Craft Arms and Armor, you got nearly everything covered.

No, you don't. Wizards use also rings, rods, wands, staffs and scrolls.

What else do you want, a detailed breakdown of every item?

I want you to stop making generalized and untrue statements.

You can do that on your own, I really don't need that kind of hassling, especially since it is quite apparent that people now are just turning up to get some additional digs in.

I don't follow.

What does more damage to a tree - an arrow or an axe?
A slashing arrow deals damage like an axe.

I am by no means an arrow expert, so perhaps you could help me understand the effect of an arrow tipped that way vs an arrow with a traditional tip.

The first one slashes and the second one pierces.

"Nearly" double and it can get pretty near with the right amount of time and the right class.

I asked how.

I would like to know how one item crafting feat doubles a PCs WBL.

Kybryn wrote:
Grizzly the Archer wrote:
wasn't a lashing arrow, but a slashing arrow.
An arrow with a kukri tied to the end?

Just because you're unable to imagine a slashing arrow doesn't mean they're not possible. A slashing arrow would be broad instead of pointy. Or it could have the tip look like a snakes tongue.

Example #1.
Example #2.
I'll let you guess which ones are the slashing arrows.
And a bludgeoning arrow.

Ravingdork wrote:
Except most people aren't whining about balance. They just want to be better than the guy sitting across from them.

OR they don't want to be worse. That's also a possibility. And a less condescending one.

I think it's reasonable to balance the game. Calm down man.

Someone failed their Sense Motive check for sarcasm.

But there's nothing wrong with it.

Then why should I admit anything?

Cheapy wrote:
Ah, the old "Something is powerful, that means everything else should be powerful!" argument. Gotta love the never ending power creep that's disguised as "X getting deserved nice things". Or power all-out-sprint as it is in some cases.

You're right. Mundanes should be nerfed and casters buffed. Only then will it feel like Pathfinder.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Do you think archers are getting too much support (compared to other classes)? Or do you see this more as a much needed "fix?"

I see it as mundanes finally getting their deserved nice things.

Oh, and a little clarification on my interpretation of Detect Evil:
The spell detects evil. It has a radius of a cone-shaped emanation. If something evil is in the radius of the spell you'll know it. It won't say who or what exactly is evil, but you'll know there is evil. There's no contradiction with what JJ said. He said that the CE Fighter isn't seen as evil. He didn't say the spell isn't detecting any evil at all.

You play it as people who are 'born evil'??

In D&D/PF? Sure.

Are you saying that EVERY Goblin HAS to be Evil? EVERY Faun is CG without exception?

Where did I say that?

People can have Evil desires and evil thoughts.. but until you ACT on them, you aren't a lost cause yet.

But you have an evil alignment in D&D/PF.


You can look around and see a bunch of goth nobodies jabbering on about how awesome 'Evil' is... or wrapped up in chains and leathers talking about how 'bad' they are...

but at level 1... they haven't DONE anything bad yet. Any of the TRULY evil acts that would give them a 'solid' alignment... would also have given them xp. If they were bandits on the road and murdered people for 6 seasons straight... they should have the xp from that too... making htem level 5+

If your still level one, theres a reason your still level one ;)

Those level 1-2 bad guys are the ones who are still 'testing' their evilness... some will embrace it, some will get disgusted by it and turn back toward the light...

Except in PF/D&D alignment isn't earned. It's innate. If a creature is Evil then it is actually Evil, no matter if it had time to do evil deeds or not. That's how alignment in this system works. It's objective.

This separates Detect Evil a bit from the simple HD-based method described in the spell; a thief and a murderer might both be evil, but the murderer detects as more evil at the same level of personal power. First off, it enables shades of grey. Second, is simplifies play, since an aura of petty evil tells the Paladin to keep an eye on someone, but that the aura alone is not sufficient to warrant violence. Cutting out these distractions lets the DM and the Paladin focus on bigger moral questions, such as whether a given villain can be redeemed or how to deal with a prisoner who has surrendered.

How... is that different from registering as Evil, but with no aura?

You might as well just admit you want to play a god-slaying game, because with some of the greater evils, you're already there.

What's wrong with that?


No, it's not lame to borrow ideas. Otherwise people who play adventure paths would all be lame.
Also, Lighten Weapon.

Matthew Downie wrote:
Being weak makes your alignment undetectable. What is this I don't even...
It makes sense to me. Powerful evil-doers radiate evil. Ordinary people with selfish natures don't. Their evil is too petty and trivial to register.

It doesn't to me. Sure, the aura doesn't register, I have no issue with that, it's understandable and your reasoning is good. But as I said earlier, if the spell/ability doesn't detect alignment then it's almost useless at the level you gain it and a few levels later.

Something ate my last post, so lets try again.

Aunt Tony wrote:
ImperatorK wrote:
Furthermore, as was said already, the classes are not in competition with each other.
Except when you fight enemies with PC class levels.

If the DM wants to overpower you, his choice of NPC class levels is the least-important tool at his disposal.

And if your DM considers himself to be playing "against" the PCs, then you have much more dire problems on your hands than whatever esoteric flaws you perceive in the mechanics of the game itself.

Nice strawmans.

Just because you didn't experience problems with classes doesn't mean there aren't any.

Except there's not "auras" in 1st round. If you houserule it then sure, it works how you like. But by RAW it doesn't.

Furthermore, as was said already, the classes are not in competition with each other.

Except when you fight enemies with PC class levels.

Stop arguing against the idea that high-tier spellcasters can do everything, because nobody at all is claiming it.

They can do everything, only not exactly at the same time. Although, with a right build...

It's also nonsensical.

Your Reading of the rules is not RAW and certainly not RAI.

Sure it is. And unless there's an errata or official FAQ, words of anyone (even a developer) mean nothing to me (at least concerning RAW).

Are wrote:

By the way, I found a citation for you, by James Jacobs (from about 2 weeks ago).


I don't even know what to say. So much fail...
Being weak makes your alignment undetectable. What is this I don't even...

I'm not sure what you mean? Are you suggesting that the paladin should fight them without investigating them first, or are you suggesting that the paladin should do nothing at all?

It's not his job to investigate every Evil person. Read the Paladins Code of Conduct that I quoted above.

I'm happy to know that a large amount of other people are misunderstanding the rules the same exact way as me.

Where are those people? I'm going to tell them that they're wrong too.

Code of Conduct wrote:

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

I see nothing about attacking or investigating evil people just because they're evil. What I DO see is that Paladins can't associate with Evil people (unless as allies against a much greater evil), and also should punish those that harm or threaten innocents, and that's not even limited to Evil people.

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Yes. But the point is to help the paladin, to avoid him having to investigate all those evil low-level people, so he can instead focus on those who actually merit such focus.

Why should he investigate them? Did they do something wrong? Being evil-aligned isn't against the law. And Paladins are there to fight against evil, not investigate it.

It's also to help the game from turning into a "I detect evil in the bar. Oh, there's evil here. Well, I'll spend the next hour of game-time checking all of these people out and force the DM to come up with stories for all of them".

Again - why should he do that? That's not his job.

As for a citation, I can't give you one. If a designer even straight out said it, it would probably have been in the Beta Playtest forums about 5 or so years ago (and I don't have easy access to those forums now). Regardless of quotes, the fact that the spell changed from the 3.5 version (all evil people were detected, no HD-limit) to its current version (where there is a HD-limit) is enough to tell me, at least, that there was a reason for the change. If Paizo still wanted all who have an evil alignment to detect as evil, why make the change?

Sorry, but you're just misunderstanding the rules. The HD thing is relevant only for discerning the auras power.

If the spell is not able to discern alignments of creatures of 5 or lower HD then it is near useless at the level it is gained because most enemies at those levels are below 5 HD and only a fraction of them are clerics/paladins/outsiders/undead.
And as I already pointed out, it doesn't make ANY sense that you can't detect the alignment of simple commoners. It's silly that being weak (low HD) makes your alignment non-detectable.
My reading of the rules is RAW and, dare I say it, probably even RAI.

It doesn't have an aura. But it does have an alignment.
I twist nothing. I read it as it is written.

That would be an odd interpretation, considering (AFAIR) one of the reasons the 5-HD limit was introduced in Pathfinder was specifically so low-level NPCs wouldn't be detected.

You have any citations? I find it weird and silly that a low level spell isn't able to discern the alignment of a low level NPC.

The lower level you are the harder it is to discern your alignment? It doesn't make sense.

You're doomed.

Persuade one of the players to take Leadership and play the cohort. But remember that the cohort serves the player. He's not one of the PCs, he's just a cohort.

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