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When does a Dwarven Warrior archetype grant The harder they fall, Breaker, Throwing, or Intimate racial enemies? Or do they just get those abilities right out of the gate?
(Great idea, by the way.)
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Cool, thanks!
Cross-posted (with a bit of editing) from elsewhere...
You may be interested in one or two three of my own home-brew settings that I created once.
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One is tentatively called "Gods of Sides".
Within it, there are three "core essences" of the divine - an ethically neutral and morally evil "core essence" (Toldeth); a true neutral "core essence" (Taiia), and an ethically neutral and morally good "core essence" (Elishar). These godly essences represent Imperatives - moral guidelines for that which is "the best" or "most important" (generally, morals). These are represented by negative energy (evil), energy (neutral), and positive energy (good).
There are also three "expressed gods" - basically default personalities - that interact with the "core essences" of the gods. These are Hermod (chaotic and neutral), Heimdall (lawful and good), and Freya (neutral and good).
When a "core essence" is combined with an "expressed god" you get an aspect of a given god (and an appropriate church to worship it).
CE: Toldeth+Hermod -> Hermdeth
LN: Toldeth+Heimdall -> Heimdoth
NN: Toldeth+Freya -> Freydeth
CN: Taiia+Hermod -> Hermaiia
LG: Taiia+Heimdall -> Heimdaiia
NG: Taiia+Freya -> Freyaiia
CG: Elishar+Hermod -> Hermishar
LG: Elishar+Heimdall -> Heimishar
NG: Elishar+Freya -> Freyishar
(There is no direct LE or NE representative - the church of Heimdoth absorbs any LE would-be worshipers, while the church of Freydeth or Hermdeth absorbs NE would-be worshipers.)
The idea for these is that the "expressed gods" have their own distinctive personalities and preferences, but they are simply way too powerful, to grandiose, and too glorious for the material plane to handle directly; they are thus distant, and can thus only be "accessed" by reaching them through the "core essences". They are, however, the "big gods" of the setting.
There is one lesser goddess - Dennari - who is a kind of servant-overseer, though, being chaotic good, is whimsical and not entirely reliable. Below her is a host of demigods, and quasigods.
There are no intermediate gods or greater gods - only the three over gods, before the lesser goddess and lower categories "start". These lower gods have all sorts of alignments. Dennari and the gods below her never directly interact with the "core essences" as they're not a "distant" as the other gods, but their worship is fundamentally local to some region or area.
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Another "setting" that I came up with doesn't appear to be on this computer (I think it's just jotted notes in a notebook), but, by memory, I think the "greater" god(dess) in that setting was a heavily altered Yondalla (I think she was a Yondalla core, gestalted with Taiia, and given the Tauric, monster of legend, and other templates), with Freya (I did something weird to her, I don't remember) and Dionysus (I think he was an alchemist/artificer with fake limbs due to some trauma or another) and had as the two other "gods" in existence. Though she was lawful good (I think?) she permitted a chaotic neutral god and neutral good goddess to come into existence because she was lonely and also, although exceedingly powerful, finite. Sharing the burden helped and was, in the end, necessary.
I think I came up with these gods while envisioning something like Verces from the absolutely excellent Distant Worlds. In this setting, none of the gods are evil, but there are definitely dark elements to some of the gods, and bad things can happen to them; they can even be driven crazy. Beyond mortal understanding, perhaps, but there are other, darker things that exist and have yet to be fully explored.
Part of the idea is that the Yondallaiia-character brought life and light to a dark world, but discovered there were already things - wicked, evil, awful, ancient "things" - in existence-that-is-not-existence. Bringing mortals (and existence) into existence drew "their" attention, and she created/ascended assistance. Successful assistance, but not-as-lawful-or-good-as-her assistance. Thus the world isn't lawful and good, even though Yondallaiia-character's gamble/omnisciently-designed plan was basically a success.
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Finally (for this post), there's a setting with mechanics to determine how a god arises and chooses their portfolio. Make nine large alignment boxes.
Take a god with a portfolio element (or "area of concern") and strip all the details about that god away. Put the portfolio (or "area of concern") into a smaller box within the appropriate alignment-box.
Do this for every world/setting that is officially published.
Create a linked webwork between alignments, portfolio elements that were grouped together, and the like.
You now have a list of portfolio elements that have an "inherent" (sort of) alignment, and this helps you develop gods.
This is now how gods can ascend at all, and how they can gain portfolio elements - they start in their own alignment, and may "dip" into another alignment's portfolio element if it has their portfolio element or a portfolio element that was "bundled" with their own. Each god can choose up to one portfolio element, up to one step away in alignment, or by link to their current alignments; they can choose four different times (though if you choose via shared portfolio element - so long as that's the only portfolio element -, that doesn't count against your limit of choices.
For example (taken from the top of my head), let's say that you look through everything and only find the following (you'll find more, but this is just for a simple example):
LG:
- justice
- vengeance and honor
- protection
NG:
- protection
- love
- healing
LN:
- justice and punishment
- honor
- law
CN:
- vengeance and lust
- storms
CE:
- storms
- insanity
Starting with a lawful good god, we want to get insanity... but how?
Well, he takes vengeance and honor, that allows him to tap into vengeance and lust (CN), then storms (CN), and then storms (CE) to get to insanity (CE). That means he's got for elements: vengeance, honor, lust, storms, insanity. Normally this would be beyond the scope, but when you picked up storms from CN and then looked at CE, you could bypass that "choice" because they're exactly the same - on the other hand, LG got you "vengeance and honor" while CN got you "vengeance and lust" which are very different.
Alternatively, the newly ascended lawful good god could choose justice, vengeance and honor, protection; and then either go to NG (via protection) to grab healing, or CN to grab vengeance and lust, or LN to grab justice and punishment.
Anyway, I built that decision-maker once, but... I can't find it, and I don't want to compile it all again. I'm also going to post this in my own thread...
Hope that helps inspire, even if you use nothing here directly!
~ Tac
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Maybe what happened with D&D and One Piece was the same conspiracy. Take something with chaotic good characters the consumers were identifying with, and turn them into lawful good characters. The new version of D&D, 5th edition still has no chaotic good or lawful evil characters allowed.
One Piece ran into the ground with the Straw Hat crew as all law officers.
While I rarely understand what, exactly, you mean, GG, I'm glad you post here. It's interesting concepts presented one way or the other.
Anyway!
This gave me insomnia for a little bit.
This gave me insomnia back when it was going on.
And, since this post, the idea of the Lion Blade as a base class.
The prestige class linked has some issues, but I'm not really here to discuss those.
Instead, first, let's just look at the most basic variant of the prestige class, changing practically nothing (except opportune strike for sneak attack, 'cause that needs to happen; if you care, sneak attack is +1d6 at 2nd level and every four levels thereafter [6th, or 10th]).
acrobatics, bluff, climb, diplomacy, disable device, disguise, intimidate, perception perform, sense motive, stealth
master of disguise, move with crowd, inspire self +2
opportune strike, slowing strike
hide in plain sight, unexpected suggestion
expeditious advance
inspire self +4, glean information
-
cloud the mind, secret step
narrow miss
grandmaster of disguise, inspire self +6
silent soul
Proficiency: all simple weapons, hand crossbow, longsword, rapier, sap, shortsword, shortbow, whip; light armor, shields
Alignment: any neutral
So! Basic stuff.
But what's missing? The Prerequisites:
Feats: deceitful, improved initiative, skill focus (perform)
Skills: bluff 3, diplomacy 3, disguise 5, stealth 5, perform (acting or singing) 3
Special: inspire competence, sneak attack +2d6
So... I'm wondering where, exactly, to go from there.
While inspire self actively hampers the main abilities of the Lion blade, and I even recommended nixing it entirely, I'm wondering if that's really the best thing.
I did recommend Martial Flexibility, and something like Brawler's Flurry or Flurry of Maneuvers... maybe some combination thereof (Master of Many Styles would be more powerful... but I don't think it fits the theme, honestly). Favored Terrain (Urban), at a slower rate... maybe a few others, but I'm less sold on anything else.
Anyway, that's all I've got for now.
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Someone had told me on twitter that they were not going back to the main storyline on One Piece. 2 weeks later they did on Toonami. Don't believe anything on Twitter unless you can find confirmation elsewhere.
I wasn't sure where I had made that statement, till now. This in no way means Hasbro is going to return balance and logic to their multiverse.
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Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A terrormonger is proficient with light armor, but not with medium armor, heavy armor, or any kind of shield (including tower shields). This replaces the slayer's weapon and armor proficiency.
Class Skills: The terrormonger gains Perform, Diplomacy, Escape Artist and any one Knowledge skill of his choice as class skills, but does not gain Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.
Obsession (Ex): A terrormonger can study a subject he sees as a standard action. The terrormonger then gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Sense Motive, Intimidate, Disguise, Survival, and Stealth checks against that subject. The DCs of slayer class abilities against that opponent increase by 1. A terrormonger can only maintain these bonuses against one opponent at a time; these bonuses remain in effect until the opponent is dead. This replaces the slayer's Studied Target ability.
For every day after the initial encounter that contains at least one meeting between the terrormonger and his obsession, the bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +6.
The terrormonger deals double sneak attack damage against his obsession.
Attachment: A terrormonger must allow his victim to survive at least 24 hours after the initial meeting. If the victim dies before then, the terrormonger takes a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based checks for the next 24 hours.
Terrifying: A terrormonger gains a bonus to his Intimidate equal to half his level. This ability replaces Track.
Fear Feeding: As a swift action, the terrormonger can gain a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for every Shaken subject he can see or hear. This bonus is increased by 1.5 for every Frightened or Panicked subject. The bonus cannot rise above his level. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + the slayer's Intelligence bonus.
Knell (Ex): At 10th level, if the terrormonger commits a coup de grace on a helpless but conscious creature and successfully kills him/her, all allies able to witness the deed must make Will saves (DC 10 + 1/2 terromonger's level + Inquisitor's Intelligence). If they fail, they are frightened for 1 round and shaken for 2d4 rounds after that. If they succeed, they are shaken for 1d4 rounds. If this is the terrormonger's obsession, and he has maximized his skill bonuses against him/her, the DC increases by 4. This is a fear effect.
Alternatively, the terrormonger may choose to perform this upon an unwilling ally. All subjects within 30 feet must make Will saves at the same DC, including the terrormonger and his allies (though they gain a +2 bonus on the save). If his enemies fail, they face the above effects. If his allies fail, they are shaken for 2d4 rounds. If his allies succeed, they instead gain 2d8 + terrormonger's level in temporary hit points.
I Did Not Factor In The Warp Ability: At 14th level, the terrormonger can use dimension door as a spell-like ability 3 times per day as an immediate action at any point during the round as long as the teleportation takes him somewhere within thirty feet of his obsession. However, following this, he is staggered for 1 round.
If the obsession is not aware that the terrormonger teleported—for instance, if he teleported behind a door and out of sight—the obsession must immediately make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 terrormonger's level + # of days terrormonger has visited him/her) or be nauseated for 1 round. This is a fear effect. This ability replaces Quarry.
Slayer Talents: This addition talent is available:
Misfortune: If the terrormonger is pursuing someone, he may choose to take only one move action per round. While doing this, his base speed increases by 10 ft, and he gains Regeneration 10. For every round he does this, he may make a trip attempt against the victim, no matter how far away they are. He can heal a maximum of 5 x his terrormonger level in this fashion per day.
LOVE IT
EDIT:
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I can't get the thought of a class idea out of my head. A fighter class that takes Martial Flexibility and Sean K Reynolds's articles about making fighters more versatile and absolutely runs with it in a flavorful way.
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WARNING:
YOU ARE ABOUT TO ENTER "THE ZONE" WHEREIN A POSTER CASTS "WALLS OF TEXT" AT YOU. BEWARE!
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I've done this quite a few times, but I keep forgetting. I mean, I keep remaking it, and then forgetting to type it out anywhere, so then I have to go remake it again, and, frankly, I'm not sure if it's a good idea or just really stupid, or even how my multiple attempts stack up to each other.
Anyway, time to mention what I'm talking about: the Shade template from 3.X Forgotten Realms. I am a big fan of the Shade... well, most things, from Shadow Weave to Template to all sorts of other elements. Not because I like the Shades - oh, no, they're terrible and monstrous and awful - no, but rather because I like their stuff, style, and ideas, and want to redeem them (while taking stuff away from Shar: after all, her portfolio includes Loss, so she should start living up to that! >:D).
This is going to be vaguely PF, vaguely 3.X (referencing PF or 3.X skills in different places while 3rd's LA, for example), so don't let that throw you.
So here's the Shade template as it exists from then:
TYPE: Outsider (native, subtype of your previous race)
You keep your previous racial traits, but gain the following. However, the following only exist in dim light or less.
- CON and CHA increase by +2- speed increase +20 {+15 in restricted armor}
- +2 deflection AC -> (+4 deflection AC in 3.5)
- +2 competence attack and damage
- +4 luck saves
- +4 racial listen/spot, +8 racial hide/move silently
- fast healing 2
- SR 11+lvl
- CR +2; LA +4
- spell-like:
- (constant): shadesight
- (at will): control light [100ft radius, 10%/lvl reduction; for each 25%, +1 hide], invisibility
- (1/2 rnds): shadow stride
- (3/day): shadow image
- (1/day): shadow travel
So, I'm looking at it and... blech. It's all over the place in terms of bonuses and whatnot. It creates convoluted wording for no reason. It adds a really confusing abilities (), so many fiddly bits that it's annoying for a GM to keep track of them all (), and is neither synergistic with magic items nor many feats or class abilities (meaning you could easily effectively make your character weaker by taking this). Further, their ability to function in darkness is less than many other creatures (and can be dispelled, even if only for a round), which... makes no sense. Many of the abilities are rendered semi-redundant - or worse, entirely uninteresting - by the other abilities, and some actively hinder comprehensible combat.
So. My aim is to make this "simpler", and more reasonable within the paradigm of what they do and who they are. Not necessarily more powerful, but possessing more synergy and clarity. Easier to run.
TYPE: Outsider (native, subtype of your previous race)
You keep your previous racial traits, but gain the following. However, the following only exist in dim light or less.- darkvision (see in darkness)
- +2 <> bonus on all d20 rolls, damage rolls, and DCs; to all strictly numerical non-dynamic defenses (such as AC, CMD, DR, resistance, etc.; but not things like fast healing or evasion); and hit points per level (these are lost first, as if they were temporary hit points)
- fast healing 2
- speed +20 {applies after armor and all other speed adjustments}
- shadow blend (total concealment)
- +4 racial perception, +8 racial stealth
- SR 4+lvl
- CR +2; LA +4
- spell-like:
- (constant): darkness (centered on self), mirror image
- (at will): dimension door
- ([1/4 lvl]/day): shadow travel
Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better. There's a lot - and I mean a lot - of similarity, but I thing the differences are significant enough that most things sort themselves out.
Now, there are a few things I've got to iron out. First of all, what the kind of bonus is that provides all the bonuses up top.
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I'm kind of stuck between circumstance, inherent, luck, morale, profane, or racial. Each of these have their own benefits and drawbacks and each tells an interesting potential story. The speed increase would be the same kind of bonus as this.
- Circumstance makes a lot of sense, as it is literally defined by their circumstances (the ambient light), but actively overlaps a huge array of bonuses. If it was a Circumstance bonus, I'd be likely to lower the increase to CR/LA. This is the most sensible to me, however.
- Enhancement makes some sense, but I'm just going to nix this idea now - it stacks with nothing and is, for all intents and purposes, worthless as an Enhancement bonus, as it entirely ignores the preponderance of items that would be useful.
- Inherent is a tempting option, but the problem is that these bonus act nothing like other inherent bonuses, and the idea of inherent bonuses failing in daylight is... strange, to say the least. Still, it would make them quite powerful.
- Luck is a very intriguing idea - the concept that the shadows themselves kind of twist and shift reality around subtly so that things tend to "go the Shades' way" is a really compelling one in some regards. In this, the Shades become kind of "loved by the darkness" (or the Divine Entity responsible for it) and are actively rewarded for choosing the darkness over the light... something with intriguing implications and powerful figurative parallels. The problems, however, again boil down to "it doesn't stack with some stuff" though there are fewer things that would be directly impacted by this than in other cases. It's also a bit odd in the sense that it kind of tends to anthropomorphize the Darkness, or force a Divine Entity to be more active than they'd normally tend to be, even in a setting like FR.
- Morale is a very interesting idea. Under this paradigm, the bonuses come from not just the shadows but the sheer relief and comfort the shades feel within the darkness. Their power becomes a kind of deep-seated longing for the darkness, almost like an addiction to their newly-chosen environment. The problem with this, of course, is barbarians, bards, and divine magic - three sources of morale bonuses. These three elements are, if not written out, solidly less interesting, mechanically, to be as a Shade. It would almost seem as they would need to have a lower relative increase to their CR/LA with this than other classes due to overlap (especially bards)... but I'm not really sure.
- Profane is a solid RP-based idea, and also quite powerful to boot. There aren't really that many things that give a profane bonus and the few that are tend to be restricted to explicit creature types/spells (such as undead in desecrate/unhallow or succubi), though there are several class benefits that get shafted (from being evil) which means it's a little more dubious as to whether or not this works for a "mostly evil" group of people with a heavy worship of an evil deity (even if they're mostly arcanists). It does make sense that, in the becoming of shade, according to lore, you actively sacrifice a portion of your soul to the Divine Entity who blesses you with this (literally) dark power in return... it reinforces the idea that "Shades are bad, m'kay?!" and messing with this power is, in the end, evil. Buuuuu~uuut Shades are not inherently evil, simply "any non-good", so that weakens the idea somewhat, along with the lack of overlap.
- Racial makes a certain amount of sense, but it is, I might drop the bonuses to stealth/perception... but then again, I might drop those anyway for greater simplicity.
- Untyped just seems way, way too powerful.
The defenses part is a little tricky - I'm not entirely sure of all the things it should cover or what it should not, and the hit points is a bit "iffy" as well. Does this apply to SR? If so, does it apply to their own SR? (This would bring it up to the "standard minimal" 6+CR for current PF stuff, if so.) Fast Healing? (I said "no" up above, at present.)
I might reword it so it just applies to AC, CMD, and <insert specific things here>, as appropriate... but I'd appreciate some help in coming up with a definitive "standard" list.
What about that SR, anyway? Hm... I might want to drop SR entirely... it serves little purpose, and it would overlap if they had another source of it.
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Now this one is a bit tricky itself, and I might dump it, or place it under the "fast healing" section. The idea is to imitate the +2 to CON, buuuuuu~uuut to be a bit more simplified and straight forward. As I think about it, it might just be better to drop it entirely - it's fiddly and hard to adjucate as it currently stands. This one easily needs the most work, and might be best dropped entirely. What do you guys think?
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- Darkness: While within the radius of what would normally be dim light or less, the darkness effect kicks in. If brought out of that, the darkness effect ceases functioning, despite the fact that it would have otherwise lowered the light level. Otherwise, this follows all of the rules for normal darkness effects. Those rules are under contention, but with this ability, the Shade has the ability to control light, and a very basic framework with which to do so within the rules itself, which the Control Light ability did not do. This also makes them Shades - i.e. living, moving darkness. That... appeals to me. Finally, it makes the template slightly less appealing to those who want to interact with others who aren't also shades or otherwise without darkvision of some sort, making them naturally trend toward Shadovar society (the FR-based society in question)...
The other option that I've been considering is simply giving them the ability to lower the light level by 1 step for every five levels (to a maximum of supernaturally dark) from whatever the "current" prevalent lighting conditions are. This latter would certainly sidestep the various rules oddities that the various light spells have (or at least avoid adding to the confusion), but again introduce a rules weirdness. Any "weirdness", however, would strictly be due to the current light rules' issues.
I'm open for ideas.
One of the things that this is not intended to be (by me) is an "always on" ability... though I find the idea of that exceedingly fascinating. If it was an "always on" kind of ability, that would leave our shade vulnerable only to magical light, and would create extremely interesting and dynamic fights - very memorable. The issues of the pending FAQ are a thing, but it's an interesting thing, and less for the GM to ad hoc than he would with the other ability.
- Mirror Image: The idea behind this is that, on your turn each round, 1d4+[1/3 level] {max 8} images pop into existence around you. This makes you terrifying to people in general, and quite potent against small groups, especially at higher levels (when you're just poppin' a minimum of 6-7 per round). I am seriously considering dumping this (the most likely option), returning to the (3/day), or making a variant where it's just a few (say, 1/5 level?) per round.
Leaving it as it currently is was meant to make things more simple, but having 1d4+ of these puppies popping every round is less simple and would create quite a sloggy "boss fight" (though potentially very interesting: either requiring large numbers to take it down reliably, or by finding methods to entirely circumvent "attack rolls").
Most importantly, however, mirror image is rather redundant and needless... and it always has been. It's a flavorful ability, but it requires the creature to be able to be seen, and the original Shade has invisibility at will - this might be useful to pop for the one combat round after he attacks that he's visible, but that's about it (and that's the round he's going to short-range teleport away to become invisible again). I have removed the invisibility spell effect, but I replaced it wish Shadow Blend that permits total concealment... effectively an invisibility effect without the +20 to stealth, but always on, and something that still renders this ability obsolete.
The big benefit of its previous form was that it could be dispelled, which is definitely a weakness of this system and place.
Dimension Door: Okay, so... why the change? Quite frankly, it's easier to remember (no "every other round" stuff, established rules to go off of), it's still potent without being tactically overwhelming (the Shade loses their actions thereafter... unless they expend feats), and it creates more interesting potential encounters over-all (). It makes the Shade both more and less easy to shut down, and requires more thinking on their part, while allowing the GM the freedom of having fewer rules to remember at any one time.
Okay, so... I'm just going to say that I'm not going to keep this ability as-is. Teleport without error is great, and, if I were a player of a Shade, I'd be sad it would go (and am sad, honestly)... but it really makes no daggum sense. Instead, I'm going to suggest plane shift (to and from the shadow plane) and shadow walk instead, as that ability is both lower-level, and more appropriate thematically. While this does limit them, somewhat, it also allows more dynamic combats to occur and more interesting choices to be made. I might re-reduce it to once per day, however, or maybe twice per day.
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So, what about other bits of "shadow" magic?
Well, shadow bard, familiar double, project image, project shadow, lunar veil, protective penumbra, armor of darkness, vampiric shadow shield, shadow barbs, shadow weapon, shadow anchor, shadow evocation (and greater), shadow conjuration (and greater), and - of course - shades are all interesting things to ponder.
(I suppose shadow dragon aspect and shadow bomb admixture fit into here, too, but... I dunno.)
In the end, most of the "issues" are things related to or inherited from the original template, and I think my new one is "superior" (mechanically speaking) in most ways, though there are still issues to be thought out and worked with. Fewer spell-likes, more recognizable spell-likes, more recognizable non-spell-like abilities, and more-easily "spontaneously" added/subtracted bonuses and penalties with fewer questions of stacking; no ability score-altering at various issues, fewer points to adjucate, and certainly more thematic. In some regards more dangerous, but in others less - certainly less fiddly, however.
So! Tell me what you think!
(And brutal honesty is appreciated.)
EDIT'd for a minor copy/paste error, and again for a few minor typos or information left out, and a little more explanation for a couple of things that I just trailed off on.
EDIT:
About the mirror image effect: what if it was part of a "greater shade" template ability that gained a displacement effect as well? Hm... unlikely. Unfortunately, even see invisibility doesn't work to relieve total concealment that isn't based on invisibility, strangely enough. Ooh, though faerie fire is a surprisingly vicious little first level spell for Shades to deal with... and it comes from druids, too! Natural v. unnatural for the win! Iiiiinteresting. Ooh! And unwelcome halo! I like this! Ooh! Ooh! Chain of perdition! Nice!
Either way, their shadow blend ability is overcome by other senses, such as Scent or Blindsense.
That said, though I based the version on the shadow wolf, I'm wondering if "total concealment" is too strong. I remain unsure about that, but a concealment might be what I go with... but I really liked replacing invsibility with total concealment... hm, hm...
Critters with shadow blend.
Another idea is that the template either also grants light sensitivity, light blindness, sunlight powerlessness, or, possibly, even vulnerable to sunlight. Heck, putting both the 'powerlessness and the vulnerable' abilities together would be an interesting combination... though I don't think it's the best one for them. Hm... perhaps for some, however... maybe certain servants of theirs, or for a variant template... hm...
Also possible: something like an unnatural aura, which would explain why they have to use or create magical beasts or outsiders or aberrations as their "pets".
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Couple of things.
1. Circumstance bonuses stack so there's not really any need to lower their CR if it's a circumstance bonus because it always stacks with other circumstance bonuses.
If it's a morale bonus, the courageous enhancement will cause them to explode super-saiyan style as it's basically uber heroism, granting bonuses to everything including saving throw DCs. Frankly +2 to save DCs for all abilities is great already (literally +10% chance your enemy fails) but when you add Courageous into it, you're looking at an extra +2 to the DCs (and everything else). +20% to penetrate saves is like "Whoa dude". :P
2. I think "the bonus" needs to be cleaned up. One of the goals you had was to make it easier to run, except as it is it really doesn't. The "not real HP but not temporary HP" hit point bonuses for example are awkward and create some really strange situations when they pass from dark to light to dark again (the HP go away but you haven't taken any damage but then the HP come back, are you still damaged? Do the bonus HP have to be healed naturally, with magic, or when can you heal them? Other issues like that).
Further the bonus needs to be defined better. For example, currently it applies to all numerical non-dynamic defenses. It doesn't define what nondynamic is, but reading it here I would take it to mean things like saves vs Poison get upped, channel resistance gets upped, saves vs mind-affecting are upped, etc. Especially since energy resistances and DR are called out as an example (ruling out the idea that dynamic is "applies sometimes").
It creates some weird interactions with spells. For example, it increases DR and energy resistances. Now while that doesn't really pose an issue with spells like resist energy because going from resist 10 to resist 12 for the course of the spell doesn't mean much, when you consider spells like stonekin which grants the creature DR 10/adamantine but only blocks up to CL * 10 Hp worth of damage, does this mean that it it now is DR 12/adamantine with the same limit of 10 * CL, or is it now 10 * CL then +2, or is it 12 * CL, or some other formula? (By RAW it would increase DR to 12/adamantine but expire after 10 * CL HP, so it blocks slightly bigger hits but falls at the same total damage blocked).
It also has has the side effect of doubling up on a lot of defenses. For example, they would get the +2 bonus to saves, and then if they were a Paladin they'd get +2 to their divine grace. If they had superstition, their superstition bonus increases by +2, and if they had ghost rager, their touch AC goes up by another +2 because of that bonus to superstition as well as going up by +2 because there's a bonus to AC. Similarly, monks would double dip in AC (+2 to AC and then increasing their static defensive ability by +2 again).
I really think you might want to reign in exactly what this bonus applies to, because at the moment, it has extreme variety in terms of how powerful this template is based on what sort of classes are using it. A Ranger for example would get the usual benefits but a Paladin would increase his save bonuses twice, would increase the power of his auras (which provide static defensive bonuses) which stack with divine grace (so the Paladin vs Antipaladin scenario would leave the Paladin with a net +2 vs Fear).
I think you might have better results toning the whole template down and making it more like celestial/fiendish creatures instead, where you have some abilities that unlock and get better with the HD/level of the creature in question and lowering the CR adjustment to being almost nothing. That way you could pack some of the better features onto higher level creatures (where the initial benefits aren't going to even wiggle their CR up a full +1) while avoiding the issue of overpowering low-end characters (because frankly see in darkness is already amazing and if you give them a +8 racial to Stealth, most enemies are pretty much screwed at this point).
Mathius: Interesting points! The total concealment (v. concealment) is something I was using to imitate their invisibility ability (with less fiddly math/spell-likes).
EDIT: (sorry, got distracted by my son while typing this and forgot)
For the rest, I'll have to think, as it begins rapidly pulling it away from the original in nearly unrecognizable ways... but that may not be a bad thing. I'll have to think.
Ooh! An Ashiel beatdown! Nice! I need to think about what you're saying, but, actually, there's one thing which I'm basing this whole deal on that you're not, which I can see right off the bat: multiple bonuses from the same source stacking v. not-stacking.
The FAQ in question was only about ability score bonuses (i.e. "you can't double-dip into ability scores"), but applying it more broadly (which is what the implication is of the FAQ, even if it's been vehemently denied) cleanly seals that loophole.
In effect: "no double dipping" (it only applies to saves - i.e. d20 rolls or defenses - once).
Also, "non-dynamic" is not a game term: it's my 1:30 AM attempt at explaining a concept that I lack the lexicon to clarify. Hence, yeah, it's got problems (I attempted to address that under "The Defense" section above, but obviously not clearly enough.) Would you limit it to just AC/CMD with the other caveats I've given (since Saves are thusly covered under the d20 rolls)? Otherwise what would be a "definitive standard" list?
The idea was to always apply the bonus after all other bonuses had been processed, and only so long as the defense wasn't a moving part, which is why I ignored fast healing, but not DR, for example. Any temporary effects (like spells) would thus be excluded - but, clearly, as it's not a game term that's defined nowhere but my head, so... oops!
Also, as I was already thinking of dropping the racial bonuses, so consider them dropped - again, as they are fiddly bits that only function in shadow, and this was meant to make things cleaner, I was uncertain of their inclusion anyway. Similarly, the hit points. I was on the fence about those anyway (as indicated).
THE BONUS: I knew this would be the trickiest part, so I'm glad to hear some thoughts and potential downsides.
I'd forgotten the Circumstance bonus stacks - I was thinking they overlapped for some reason. Thanks!
The morale bonus from courageous is something I never remember (as I've never played a game with it).
Any similar issues with Luck or Profane?
(Also: heeeeeeeck no on the Celestial/Fiendish template. It already exists and gives absolutely none of the flavor or style in the mechanics.)
With those caveats in mind (and maybe more in the future), what is your new opinion? I'd really like to see the "broken" side of that spin.
Anyhoo, out of time for now...
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Ooh! An Ashiel beatdown!
I promise it wasn't intended to be. (^~^)"
The FAQ in question was only about ability score bonuses (i.e. "you can't double-dip into ability scores"), but applying it more broadly (which is what the implication is of the FAQ, even if it's been vehemently denied) cleanly seals that loophole.
In effect: "no double dipping" (it only applies to saves - i.e. d20 rolls or defenses - once).
Well the FAQ, last I checked doesn't cover this particular case. Last I checked it was about applying a score to a thing. However when you're applying types of bonuses to things it gets different.
For example, a Paladin can only apply his Charisma bonus to saves, even if he later gets an ability that also says Cha->Saves from another feature. However, a Paladin can cast bestow grace on himself and get Cha from Divine Grance AND Bestow Grace because the spell is granting a Sacred bonus equal to the Paladin's Charisma.
In this case, let's say you make it a Luck bonus (hypothetically) then it would apply a +2 luck bonus to saves. But then it might provide a +2 luck bonus to the Charisma bonus that Divine Grace provides. In essence it's increasing two different values, it's just that the latter value also makes the former value stronger.
It's kind of like if you have a spell that gives +2 to melee attack and damage rolls and +2 Strength. Because Strength just got better, your net gain is a +3 to attack and damage rolls.
It just gets really...messy. Especially if you have to start trying to parse which abilities do and do not function with it.
Also, "non-dynamic" is not a game term: it's my 1:30 AM attempt at explaining a concept that I lack the lexicon to clarify. Hence, yeah, it's got problems (I attempted to address that under "The Defense" section above, but obviously not clearly enough.) Would you limit it to just AC/CMD with the other caveats I've given (since Saves are thusly covered under the d20 rolls)? Otherwise what would be a "definitive standard" list?
Kind of like heroism or good hope do. Heroism gives it to attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks and skill checks. Good hope also gives it to damage rolls. They specify which things are modified by the spell instead of saying "+2 to rolls" or something similar. As a result, heroism doesn't make you better at Concentration checks or at penetrating Spell Resistance or some new check that comes out after it was written.
I'd forgotten the Circumstance bonus stacks - I was thinking they overlapped for some reason. Thanks!
You're welcome. Racial bonuses stack as well. As do dodge bonuses (not that dodge would make sense here).
The morale bonus from courageous is something I never remember (as I've never played a game with it).
Understandable. :)
Any similar issues with Luck or Profane?
Well luck might work, but it might seem a bit off thematically. I'd personally dislike profane as it literally means evil-powered and this seems more shadow-oriented and I generally dislike associating unrelated concepts like light and dark used Un-metaphorically with Good and Evil.
(Also: heeeeeeeck no on the Celestial/Fiendish template. It already exists and gives absolutely none of the flavor or style in the mechanics.)
I don't think I was clear. I was using the celestial/fiendish templates as an example of a template that has different effects based on the level of the creature in question. I wasn't trying to imply that it should be modeled after them specifically.
More that I'm suggesting your overall template would probably do well if you limited the amount of stuff that was up-front and then allowed it to get better at later levels. This way the CR adjustment remains fairly consistent because CR is not a linear growth. Fast Healing 2 does not mean the same thing at 1st level as it does 10th level, y'know?
One of the problems you mentioned was that it's a strait power-degrade for most creatures because +2 CR is a big pill to swallow (triply so if you're using the +4 LA from the old template). But you also don't want it to be grossly OP at low levels or useless at high levels.
So why not make it so that on low-HD creatures it provides a lesser benefit and gets more awesome at high levels when those abilities don't mean nearly as much anymore, right? That way you can cut the CR adjustment down to +1 and grant the SLAs and such at different points, or have the scale (kind of like how the SR scales).
Hm... possibly. Thanks!
RE: the FAQ - again, it's a perception issue. You feel it stops strictly there, whereas I take it as a general precedent (specifically for things like this).
Your points are solid, and I think more mechanically sound (and I'd love to see a "mechanically solid" revision thereof), but, for my purposes, I think it's just easier to remember a +2 bonus at the end of everything else, and add it to your dice rolls (all d20 and damage) and basic defenses.
(Link doesn't work?)
Link.
(Also, still mulling over shadow stuff...)
Pathfinder's spell list is quite lacking in shadow-themed spells and items, I admit. That must've been disheartening to you, tacticslion.
I'm actually pretty okay. I don't ascribe to "dark always equals bad", but I'm okay without "shadow" stuff sometimes, too. Comparatively, though, yeah.
Also, someone made quite the list of shadow spells! Woah! More than I thought.
I realize that I don't think I've posted this anywhere, and when I did here, I figured I'd do so in this thread as well as a sort of "place holder" to find it easily online again.
So... copy/paste time! :D
If we're talking automatic bonus progression, and what we do, personally, mine is really, really, really simple:
Following the basic classifications from Mythic Evil Lincoln but toned more to Ashiel's older idea.
Enhancement bonuses are part of the character; the bonus is based on their levels, and whether they receive it or not is based on their equipment (sort of).
To properly channel a person's "enhancement" bonus, that person needs a Masterwork [ITEM] associated with said enhancement.
Attacks and Damage: Weapon
Armor AC (or Natural AC): Armor or Pendant*
Shield AC: Shield or Bracers*^
Save: Cloak~ or Ring*^
Physical Ability Score: Belt, or Gloves (or Gauntlets)*, or Boots*
Mental Ability Score: Circlet, or Third Eyes*, or Cloaks*~
*
^
~
All bonuses are enhancement bonuses, which means they don't stack with any other enhancement bonuses (so no need for a ring and a cloak, for example). Normal "+" items don't exist.
Masterwork items are always +300 gold from the base price to be able to channel magical potential (in the case of armors, it's 150 gold to get the normal mwk benefits, but 300 to channel magic), for a minimum price of 450 gold.
To get around these limitations, you may take a single feat to bypass a singular category: attack and damage, armor, shield, save, physical score, or mental score.
All bonuses are +1/3 level. Straight up. Yes, that caps at +6.
Everything else functions normally.
If you're worried about money (I'm not, but I understand different groups are different), you can "short change" your PCs WBL stuff based on said bonuses over the course of their career.
Magic Armor, Magic Shields, Cloaks of Resistance are 1k, 4k, 9k, 16k, and 25k (and would be 36 for a +6).
Headbands and belts are 4k (10k for two, 16k for three), 16k (40k for two, 64k for three), and 36k (90k for two, 144k for all three).
Weapons are 2, 8, 18, 32, 50, and 72.
In total, that's 72+144+144+25+25+25 = 75+288+72 = 435k at 18th (when they hit their maximum +6) out of the PCs' 530k, leaving them with 95k - roughly 18% of their expected WBL (17.9245283-etc) - to play with. So, if you care to, you can run with those numbers: 180 around 1st level, 540 at 2nd and so on. You could run the ability scores as "less"
You could, as an alternate, allow a special "Magical Ritual" that allows a character to access their inner magical talent (notably opening up every X levels) that they must pay to undergo. Just even out the cost of such things like items (perhaps even breaking up the bonuses to scores into their three constituent parts instead of all three).
In any event, these are all simple, clear, and easy to run. Math is minimal and game-adjustments are also minimal, really.
YMMV, naturally...
EDIT: one word change
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I feel what I'm doing for the Cleaves is simpler. A plus to An ability, deflection bonus, or hit/damage every even damage. It doesn't stack with items. Maximum pluses are based on gaming standards. Up to plus 8 each stat. and deflection(till epic). Up to +5 hit and damage(till epic). Items that simply give bonuses can be sold or traded when possible.
It doesn't leave the Monk out to dry because the bonuses apply to natural attacks.
It doesn't leave the Monk out to dry because the bonuses apply to natural attacks.
Ah, see, though (I suppose I didn't explain this, sorry), in my case, I apply it to monks automatically, via the feat I mentioned before (as a bonus feat).
To get around these limitations, you may take a single feat to bypass a singular category: attack and damage, armor, shield, save, physical score, or mental score.
The armor enhancement goes to their WIS bonus to AC and the shield enhancement goes to their class bonus to AC (or vice verse) while the attack/damage applies to their unarmed strikes (or, if they prefer, monk weapons). Etc.
Basically what I've got above is a basic framework. It's tailored for whatever game I happen to run, I apply it to all creatures equally, as appropriate, and it allows for generally having
In fact, this helps monks (and other martials) a lot: all of their necessary stuff is baked-in, and allows the GM to fudge and drop things that casters wouldn't find as useful without denying casters their "necessary" stuff either. Eventually, martials get weapon bonuses that are able to overcome even 'epic' damage reduction, and are truly forces of destruction. Meanwhile, their mental scores steadily increase as well as their physical scores, granting better will saves, and more skill points. (While casters also get better physical skills, which is nice, they don't need the boosts to their physical aspects as much as martials do.)
Also, I did lie: I said normal "+" items don't exist. They actually do, though they're not usually high-level character tools, and thus are more rare. They're also super-useful... to those below a certain level. Eventually the greatest heroes literally outgrow their own most powerful magic weapons. I think that's pretty awesome (and also gives you the sense of "oh, right, now we're at godlike levels").
This does skew the math, just a tad, but it's not that big a deal, especially if applied evenly. A GM just has to place specific items on a creature to "adjust" it according to what they need against their own characters. Equipment is important, but this is surmountable. Most things are automatic.
But, as noted, YMMV. :D
Real quick funny thought (which I'm probably not going to do anything with) is:
- Lawful Good Moradin: -> Brawler
- Lawful Good Heironeous: -> Swashbuckler
- Chaotic Good Corellon: -> Warpriest
Random dice rolls create funny, interesting things...
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Reposted from another thread:
One thing I've looked at a few times, though never fully implemented, was the idea of healing surges limiting the amount of healing a creature could receive in a day, as well as being a spendable "resource" for various effects.
Kind of like 4E, yet not quite, as none of the other changes take place. As well, generally a disease requires a healing surge to make a save. Return from the dead returns you with no healing surges and leaves you without them for a time (unless you get restorations or similar, or are brought back by true resurrection).
Without magic, you could normally heal an amount in a day equal to your healing surges, plus your constitution modifier, plus your hit dice. With Healing, I was thinking of allowing it to let a character expend a healing surge to heal 1d3 hit points per five ranks of Heal.
Buuuuuuuuu~uuuut that's an untested system, and prone to fluctuations. Just something I've been kicking around that this conversation () made me think of. Hm... need to post that idea elsewhere...
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I present two ideas for the approval of the construct minded. An elaborat brass locking cover for a wizards spell book, in reality it is itself a clockwork construct capable of great stealth. It can in an emergency carry a seperated spellbook to its wizard. Best used in conjunction with an imprisoned wizard with eschew materials.
The second is a likewise themed construct, this one uses clockwork and specially prepared scroll cards allowing it to memorize spells. When the properly abbreviated words are spoken it aligns its dials into an arcane diagram of the spells allowing even an unskilled layman the ability to cast.
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Courtesy of my neighbours, who made me listen to house music all night long.
I know this is not terribly original and similar archetypes already exist, but I always thought that witch doctors should be bards.
Alignment: A witch doctor cannot be of evil alignment.
Class Skills: The witch doctor gains all skills from the shaman's list of class skills, as well as Intimidate (Cha) and Perform (Cha). These skills replace the bard's class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A witch doctor is proficient with all simple weapons. Witch doctors are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). These proficiencies replace the bard's weapon and armor proficiencies.
Spells: A witch doctor casts divine spells drawn from the shaman spell lists. Only shaman spells of 6th level and lower are considered to be part of the witch doctor's spell list. These spells replace the bard's spell list.
Bardic Performance: A witch doctor gains the following types of bardic performance.
Soothe Spirits (Su): At 1st level, a witch doctor can use his performance to put one or more creatures at ease, as if he had cast calm emotions. Each creature to be calmed must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the witch doctor, and capable of paying attention to him. The witch doctor must also be able to see the creatures affected. For every three levels the witch doctor has attained beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with this ability.
Each creature within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the witch doctor's level + the witch doctor's Cha modifier) to negate the effect. If a creature's saving throw succeeds, the witch doctor cannot attempt to calm that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature cannot take violent actions (although it can defend itself) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the effect on all calmed creatures. Soothe spirits is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability. Soothe spirits relies on audible and visual components in order to function.
This performance replaces fascinate.
Trance (Su): At 3rd level, a witch doctor can use his performance to put himself into a trance that strengthens his magic. For each round of continuous performance spent (maximum 2), he may increase the caster level of his next spell by one (provided the spell is cast before the end of the next round after this performance ends). At 7th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, he can spend an additional round of continuous performance to increase his CL accordingly (+3 at 7th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 15th, and +6 at 19th).This performance replaces inspire competence.
Exorcism (Su): At 6th level, a witch doctor can use his performance to drive off evil spirits. One creature within 30 feet of the witch doctor (including the witch doctor himself) that is cursed, hexed, possessed, or affected by a charm or compulsion effect immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against that effect, using the witch doctor's Perform (dance, percussion, or sing) check as his saving throw. Using this ability requires 3 rounds of continuous performance. This performance replaces suggestion.
Spirit Sight (Su): At 8th level, a witch doctor can use his performance to sense the presence of spirits, as if using arcane sight (using his witch doctor level as his caster level). Additionally, the witch doctor can see astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures. This effect remains for as long as the witch doctor continues to spend rounds of performance. This performance replaces dirge of doom.
Greater Exorcism (Su): At 14th level, a witch doctor's exorcism also works against transmutation effects and can even reverse effects with an instantaneous duration. This performance replaces frightening tune.
Mass Exorcism (Su): At 18 level, a witch doctor can affect up to a number of creatures equal to his Charisma modifier with his exorcism. The creatures must be within 30 feet of each other. This performance replaces mass suggestion.
Fetish (Ex): A witch doctor gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a bonded item as his arcane bond, allowing him to cast any one additional spell that he knows once per day. He may not choose a familiar. If he chooses a weapon as his bonded weapon, he may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components. This ability replaces bardic knowledge.
Orisons: Witch doctors learn a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, as noted under bard spells known. These spells are selected from the shaman spell list. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again. This ability replaces cantrips.
Hex: At 2nd level, the witch doctor gains access to a small number of shaman's hexes. The witch doctor picks one hex from the shaman's hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a shaman of a level equal to his witch doctor level and uses his Charisma modifier in place of his Wisdom modifier to determine the save DCs of that hex. The witch doctor learns additional hexes at 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. This ability replaces versatile performance, lore master, and jack of all trades.
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Idea briefly mentioned here, but more fleshed out, now:
- Fighter, compressed to 10 levels, with a tweak to its abilities
- Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (and greater of both) exist, but are not Fighter-only
- Retraining is a thing
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Level: Special
1: discipline, feat
2: feat, weapon mastery
3: feat
4: feat, weapon mastery
5: feat
6: feat, weapon mastery
7: feat
8: feat, weapon mastery
9: feat
10: feat, pinnacle of discipline, weapon perfection
Disciplined (Ex)
A fighter is a kind of warrior who focuses and gains power through sheer determination and hard work - perhaps the way of the weapon comes naturally, perhaps it is trained in a monastery or dojo or school, or perhaps, it is found by researching an ancient manual and practice; whatever the source, only through true discipline may a warrior reach their greatest power.
In order to be truly Disciplined, a fighter must have more levels of fighter than any other class; fighters who meet this criteria are considered Disciplined for the purposes of this ability. This represents the fighter's constant training and reflection upon their art - or their science - and the constant self-focused will required to accomplish their will through violence - even if that will is seeking peace. For a fighter who spends most of their life pursuing their own style, a brief foray into other styles does not degrade their purpose or discipline, and may even aid them in important things. But a fighter that forsakes their true Way loses many of their benefits, as described below. They regain the benefits as soon as they are Disciplined again - as soon as they have more Fighter levels than any other class.
In exchange for this devotion and practice, fighters gain many benefits.
First, a fighter with Discipline may retrain their bonus feats for free at any time, though the normal amount of time must still be taken.
Second, the fighter gains a form of mental hardiness - whether a loud form of bravado which allows them to shout down their own fears, an intensely drilled sense of loyalty or independence that allows them to overcome compulsions, an irritation at the pretentiousness of the overly-wordy, or a terse wariness that creates a deep-seated suspicion about the reality of what they perceive. Regardless, a fighter may choose a singe sub-school from the following list: charm, compulsion, figment, glamer, pattern, phantasm, or shadow; and a single descriptor from the following list: curse, death, disease, emotion, fear, language-dependent, pain, poison, or shadow. The fighter may use their fortitude instead of their will save against spells or effects of that sub-school or with that descriptor descriptor; if they are fully Disciplined, they gains a bonus equal to half their fighter level to saves against such effects as well.
Third, is the familiarity with armor - how it works, how it behaves, and how it functions. A Disciplined fighter reduces the armor check penalty and increases the maximum dexterity modifier they may use in armor by an amount equal to half their fighter level; a fighter who loses Discipline only gains half that bonus.
Fourth, a fighter gains a form of immutability in combat, and mastery of combat. The fighter may choose three combat maneuvers for defense, and three for offensive focus - these need not be the same. A Disciplined fighter gains a bonus equal to their fighter level on the maneuvers they defend against to their CMD, and to those they focus on offensively using with their CMB and does not provoke opportunities for using them; a fighter who is no longer Disciplined gains only half the bonus, and provokes, as normal, unless they have the appropriate feats. A fighter with discipline is treated as if having the Improved maneuver feat for their chosen combat maneuvers for prerequisites.
Finally, a fighter gains an amount of Discipline points equal to their fighter level each day; these points are renewed by spending fifteen minutes each day in a ritual of the Fighter's choosing, whenever they wake up: meditation, practice with a blade, muttering reaffirming phrases - the ritual does not matter, but it must be done to aid the Fighter in establishing their focus for the day. A fighter who is not Disciplined loses their daily allotment of points. A fighter may use these Discipline points once per round to re-roll a d20 attack roll or fortitude save they've made, or to make a single additional attack in a round equal to their attack modifier -5; they may also expend as many as they wish to take a single additional five-foot step in a round (regardless of their movement that round, otherwise) per point spent - these points and steps may otherwise be spent at any time.
Feat
Fighters are masters of combat - their breadth and skill at such in unrivaled. At each level of fighter, they gain a bonus feat; this feat may be chosen from any of the Fighter-specific feats, or any Combat feat. A fighter need not necessarily meet a prerequisite to take the feat themselves, so long as they can "fake it" well enough - a fighter without a bite attack could take a feat that required one, for instance, so long as the fighter had an ability or item that allowed them to imitate (or have) a bite attack. A fighter may even take feats in a chain out-of-order, so long as they meet the class level prerequisite. A fighter counts as a monk of equal class level.
Fighters who lose Discipline lose their fighter-only feats, and must now meet prerequisites in order to use their feats, until they are Disciplined once again. They may retrain, normally.
Weapon Mastery
Fighters are the masters of weaponry. No one else even comes close. Sometimes this comes from a fighter's devotion to a single kind of weapon or even a specific weapon - such as a longsword - and understanding the ways in which their Discipline with that blade applies to other, related weapons. Other times it is simply the way they were trained at their school, and how those methods apply across the board, having finally attained enough mastery to understand such secrets.
Each time a fighter gains this ability, they may select a single weapon group, as noted below, and a single weapon from that group.
A Disciplined fighter gains a bonus equal to half their fighter level to all attacks and damage with weapons of that category, and reduces non-weapon proficiency penalties for weapons within the category by the same amount (minimum 0). A fighter who is not Disciplined gains the bonus only with the single weapon they chose. If a weapon appears in more than one category you've chosen, you gain an additional +2 bonus. If it appears in three categories, you gain an additional +1 bonus.
This ability overlaps with Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats, but, when a fighter has Discipline, counts as having those feats with the specific weapon.
Pinnacle of Discipline
A fighter who has achieved this has achieved the pinnacle of all Discipline. Though they may no longer proceed - as a mortal - down the path of further Discipline (that is, they may no longer take levels of fighter), they may choose an additional favored class, and all of their levels stack for prerequisites of fighter levels.
A fighter no needs to have higher Fighter levels than other classes to be considered Disciplined; they are always considered Disciplined for purposes of their class abilities.
Additionally, the fighter no longer take any penalties from armor, is immune to the sub-school and descriptor chosen as part of the Discipline ability, and may retrain any feat for no cost.
Weapon Perfection
A fighter who has weapon mastery is treated as if they have the improved critical feat in their specifically chosen weapons (including for purposes of prerequisites), increase the multiplier by 1 (so x2 becomes x3), and cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of that type.
================================================
So, why, exactly, did I do this? What does it fix?
For one, it fixes how slow it is for fighters to get into their specialty and move set (due to the rapidity of which feats are gained).
This allows fighters to access strange and interesting ideas, and to truly be unmatched in the field of fighting.
It also makes Fighters an appealing dip... as well as an even more appealing class to make a "primary" class - even an exclusive class.
What's more, this compresses a fighter's abilities into the levels most people consider the "sweet spot", and increase the range of its superiority and/or relevance.
Similarly, each fighter becomes more unique - each selects specific combat maneuvers to use or defend against, and makes maneuvers rather solid choices; each selects unique spells and effects to be very good at resisting; and each has weapons (both groups of weapons and specific weapons) that epitomize their "style". The variability with these abilities mitigates the "over-specificity" of several archetypes and the save bonuses, allowing the fighter to become exceptionally good, even compared to their peers.
By overlapping weapon mastery and focus/specialization, the combat maneuvers, as well as partially stacking weapon mastery, I eliminate many "feat tax" type feats, and allow the fighter to rapidly get into their favorite styles.
One of the reasons I feel that Pinnacle of Discipline is acquired at a good level is that it's about that level which the paradigm irreversibly changes - casters (typically) begin to dominate, in plenty of cases even accidentally.
While a "base" class only ten levels long seems odd, it's only because we're used to seeing it 20 levels long - I think it works well enough, and allows people to move into an alternate play style, or to find a prestige class, or other combat-specific class to play a more focused character. This eliminates many of the issues of a martial falling behind - they literally stop progressing -, while allowing a martial to get "their style" early, and keep it throughout the late-game, if they want it.
There are a few issues with it - the early power surge may well make things a bit wonky - but considering the balance later on, I think it might be worth it.
That said, I just banged this out today. I'm curious about the other flaws folk find - what is and is not readily apparent. Certainly some things will have to shift or alter. Hopefully, it won't be too much - or rather, if it does, it only fits within the rough guideline of all the other classes as a whole within balance.
So, concept of an idea in-development, at present:
Carrion Crown to Creeping Curse: an Egyptian Flavor of CC
I'm working on a Word Document, and have Haunting at Harrowstone as finished as it would need to be for my purposes, though I suppose it's not fit for human consumption (by any other than me and my diseased mind).
It... isn't really that, hard, surprisingly.
So I have scanned this post and a lot of what I am seeing is that Cleric>Wizard for hordes because of Command Undead, but what about a Wizard's Undead school specialization that gets Command Undead? Hordes and all the boom spells...I will admit I'd miss negative channel, but I feel Fireball could ease my pain. :POpposite. Arcane (or rather anyone with Command Undead the SPELL) is the best for commanding hordes. Command Undead the feat is not even remotely as good.
So, I mean, obviously, you know, this guy...
This man seems... off, somehow, with teeth misaligned, clothes poorly maintained, a terrible sense of hygiene, and an awkward misalignment of his features. He gulps, looking at you blankly, and offers you some "lemonade" (whatever that is) to drink in an exceptionally filthy glass. He is attended by an alarmingly large number of the shuffling unliving, who he seems to have named and refer to casually.
XP 12,800
Halfling commoner 13
CN Small humanoid
Init+6' Senses Perception +3
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 size)
hp 45 (13d6)
Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +3; +2 v. fear
Speed 20 ft.
Melee unarmed +2/-3 (1d2 nonlethal)
Ranged sling +9/+4 (1d3)
Spell-like Abilities (CL 3rd)
- Continuous-command undead (DC 13)
Str 8, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 9
Base Atk +6/+1, CMB +5, CMD +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (perform [banjo]), Skill Focus (Craft [lemonade]), Skill Focus (Stealth), Skill Focus (Perception), Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Skill Focus (Climb)
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +4, Craft (lemonade) +5, Fly +4, Perception +3, Perform (banjo) +18, Stealth +13
Languages Common (barely)
SQ really stupid
Combat Gear Mwk Sling, 20 bullets, Mwk Hide Shirt, Mwk Armored Kilt; Other Gear Mwk Banjo, Bell, Blanket, Mwk Lemonade Stand, Mwk Lemonade Kit, Mwk Lemon Grove, Hammock, 9 Lengths of Rope [Hemp] (50 ft.), Large Tent, Kerchief of the Shuffle Friend; 21 gp, 1 sp, 10 cp
Kerchief of the Shuffle Friend
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 3rd
Slot neck; Price 6,000 gp; Weight -
This garrish and dirty-looking rag wraps around the neck or hair, or sticks out of a pocket. When it's been worn for at least 24 hours, it grants the user a continuous command undead effect at a caster level 3 to all undead within range (30 ft.), with a DC 13 to negate for intelligent undead.
This item does not grant its power to anyone other than a creature with more levels of commoner than any other hit dice. Regardless of the bearer (which is anyone who touches it), it grants them a -4 penalty to all charisma checks dealing with creatures other than undead (or the blind and lacking a sense of smell, or those with really bad sensibilities and lacking the concept of hygiene); this penalty cannot be removed (even if the cloth is discarded) without a remove curse and a good bath (with soap).
Craft Wondrous Item, command undead; Cost 3,500 gp
I'm a helper!
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It only works for NPCs so you can crosspost it in useless items. :)
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I saw this thread and thought I should post some of my crazy ideas, more to come (hopefully)
more innate abilities
In pathfinder I always thought that there should be more passive effects that come from a class' base abilities so I decided to write some of my ideas that I came up with over some sleepless nights. In essence I wanted to think of things that can come as part of Base attack bonus and saves besides bonuses to certain roles.
Base attack bonus: I always hated how you had to take a feat for a small speed boost so why not let your adventurers actually move fast with experience. Simply put for every 5 BAB your adventurer gets a 5-10ft speed bonus as well.
Fortitude save:each point in fortitude increases the character's resistance to extremes in temperature by 5 degrees.
ex: if you have a +4 bonus to fortitude suffer from extreme cold when the temperature exceeds -40 degrees, instead suffering from severe cold.
Reflex save: The basic idea that everyone thinks of, use reflex for initiative. The only problem is that paladins get better reactions than you'd expect
Will save: No clue yet, might be my next post if I figure something out
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Feats(or bonus handouts for good character design)
Critical thinking: You only believe what makes sense.
Benefit: You use your Intelligence bonus for Will saves, not Wisdom.
Force of personality: You only believe what you tell yourself. Why should you take suggestions from anyone less good looking than you?
Benefit: You use your Charisma bonus for will saves, not Wisdom.
No time to think: Don't think, fight.
Benefit: If in combat, all things requiring will saves are put off till combat ends.
Drawback: May smash your head into a wall doing strength bonus damage to both. "Well it could have been an illusionary wall."
RE-POST
... this is a re-post from here to make it easier to find my own items, real quick.
HERE IT IS:
So...
... let's get makin'!
For fun!
*
First, a(nother) disclaimer: these are (strongly) not likely to be exactly (i.e. "close to") what you're looking for, but they might be solid inspiration.
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th
Slot neck; Price 53,000 gp; Weight 1/2 lb.
DESCRIPTION
This necklace is a bizarre, oily, and strongly scented fetish comprised of sharply scented copper coins, and a sack filled with weirdly pungent plant matter of various oils and spices that create a heavy, slick, striking odor. The bearer, naturally, has the same aroma.
Up to twice per week, it allows the bearer to use reincarnate on a corpse touched and prayed over for ten hours, and laying across the corpse (or ashes, or other tiny bits) of the person who is to be raised. If the prayer is interrupted, the effect is not wasted, but the process must begin again.
After ten hours, the corpse begins to re-grow from the matter collected from the previous one and the local environment, slowly, over the course of ten minutes. Though concentration is no longer required, if it is interrupted at any point during those ten minutes by any means (such as attacking the corpse, casting dispel on the slowly-reconstituting matter, and so on) the effect is wasted, and must be started over again.
Additionally, the target's new body seems exceptionally well-tanned (almost weirdly and unnaturally so) and smells like it was dipped in whatever it is that the necklace was, and retains that scent for one week, or until the negative levels or constitution drain is removed (whichever comes first).
Otherwise, this functions as the spell reincarnate... though some of these devices come with a few quirks...
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, reincarnate; Cost 26,500 gp.
[================================]
Aura faint various; CL 1st
Slot neck; Price 15,180 gp; Weight -
STATISTICS
Alignment N (compatible with all alignments); Ego 1; Senses normal
INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 10
Communication empathy
Special Purpose serve it's owner
The amulet's powers are not discernible by detect magic or identify. The special powers can be identified with analyze dweomer. The powers and the abilities of the base item can be learned normally. The amulet will use its stabilize ability on a wearer, if the bearer needs it.
DESCRIPTION
This (sort of) intelligent amulet (probably something like a holy symbol of a bunch'a' gods all smushed 'round the edges or somethin', I dun'no) can be used to entirely replace your cleric's orison special ability by 8th level, and probably a bit better (since you don't have to be seen casting enhanced diplomacy).
Constant: detect magic, detect poison, enhanced diplomacy, read magic
Command Word: create water (2/day), mending (1/day), purify food and drink (3/day), stabilize (3/day)
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, all the orisons used above; Cost 6,840 gp.
[================================]
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 3rd
Slot neck; Price 7,000 gp; Weight -
DESCRIPTION
This garrish and dirty-looking rag wraps around the neck or hair, or sticks out of a pocket. When it's been worn for at least 24 hours, it grants the user a continuous command undead effect at a caster level 3 to all undead within range (30 ft.), with a DC 13 to negate for intelligent undead.
The bearer of this item must have maximum ranks in Perform (shuffle) for the special abilities to function. The bearer is considered to be anyone who touches it.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
The Ultimate Necromancer (which is slightly a lot sillier, despite this one being silly).
[================================]
I felt like I had more, but that's all I could find on such short notice. I hope they help (or at least amuse)! :D
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Rise and return, my thread~!
RISE-AND-RE-TURRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNN~!
*ahem*
So, going over my own posting history, I figured I should link things here, before I "lose" them again.
First, a bunch of links based on the Cortex+ Firefly RPG system that was heavily modified for a drow-game.
Bun-Tales
Well that will look good, later, I'm sure. (Also, the rest of that page.)
Game Update.
More (follow the rest of that page, too).
Muls are manly, you guys.
I no longer recall why I'm linking this. Anyway, an answer, and the top several of this page.
Concubare.
This page.
Polish.
Cortex+ (plus the next two posts).
Tyranny
Nobody's Home
More male concubine (plus that page)...
Misandry-but-not-really.
... and, perhaps most importantly, my own alias for keeping track of this exact sort of thing.
Anyway, that's what I've got for right now, though I'm also working on a commoner game setting...
So, Paizo forum-goers, I'd like to make a request of you, and/or present a (hopefully) fun exercise!
Obviously, this is a volunteer-basis kind of thing, but I'd appreciate it if any of you that wanted to made a character or two!
What kind? This one!
Though it's a 3.5 class, presume upgrades to PF skills, and give it any two additional class skills of your choice. Similarly, if a class feature has altered, give them the updated version (though not things that build off of that - so the new rage, for example, but no rage powers). Give it proficiency with any single weapon of your choice as a bonus proficiency. It can be a favored class.
Level five minimum. Mostly use any normal PF creation method.
There is no base class - give yourself 5 ranks each in bluff and disguise, and the Skill Focus feat in any skill you want at all; these are taken from your normal resources (so these are not bonus feats, but use up actual feat slots and skill slots). With this, your character is considered qualified for the class.
You may take other levels, but a total of levels under ten, please. Presume PF classes.
Despite the lore, there, no connection to the School of Broad Horizons. In fact, this is rather strongly Final Fantasy Tactics-based, though, if you've played that game, presuppose the character you make takes place a little more than 400 years later.
While the glories of the past have not quite been re-acquired, some hints of them have slowly been unearthed. The Glabados church is loosening, and a kind of Renaissance-cum-Industrial Revolution has been happening (and continues to) within their lifetimes. Train-like devices, by way of lightning-charged magicite (lightning charged "magical rock/crystal-like-thing"), has begun making travel more possible. Various low-grade magical devices have slowly become more commonplace, as various forms of magicite have been found and mined, and distributed through trade. Magicite was always known, and used, but relatively hard to come by - either due to general rarity and being difficult to find, or by way of the extreme danger it represents. Recently, breakthroughs in technology have changed this - a large number of different kinds may now be reliably located, while a number of the more dangerous kinds may be reliably approached, and thus mined.
That said, actual magic, like honest-to-goodness "I cast spells." magic is much more rare, and generally considered impossible. The actual pieces of auracite (a particular and rare form of magicite, considered a holy stone) from the FFT story are generally unknown, or believed to be a pure myth or perhaps a point of religious teaching.
The main continent/nation is a place called Ivalice (made of seven regions - Fovoham to the north, Gallione to the west, Lesalia to the middle, Zeltennia to the north-east and Limberry to the south-east, and Lionel to the south), but there are other continents - Romanda and Valendia (both to the north - west and east, respectively), Ordalia (to the east), and Kerwan to the south-east (see here for some details, but here for a proper description of Romanda's location).
Recently, a large scale... eh, "war" except not really... raged across several countries and continents, apparently sparked by the revelation that a few powerful and noted bloodlines were false lines - pretenders to their thrones. This "Succession Crisis" meant a lot of death, power structures becoming shaken, and social revolution, even within the backdrop of (magi-)technological revolution.
If you want a published RPG setting, think of a combination somewhere between Forgotten Realms (drop the myriads of archmages from active duty) and Eberron (there is no spoon Cyre, or mages).
In any event, you don't really need this information, but it's here for you.
The gist is that you've a vaguely quasi-French named character (or actually French, if you care) who has ties to somewhere in the world of Ivalice and who, through <reasons> (feel free to specify), has recently acquired a lost ability to change their skill set daily, including the ability to cast magic, as desired.
(Prepared casting isn't a thing, but you can go ahead and presume it is when building a character, if you like.)
Regardless of how you make the character, in addition to name and basic stats, I'd appreciate: an alignment, an allegiance (choose a regent or concept to be loyal to - make a name up, or give a minor historical note, or something), a vague morale and/or tactics box (they don't need both, but it'd be cool to have at lest something there), and something about their personality and history (however small) to get a handle on the character. I'll need to know about their relative amounts of bravery and/or faith in the supernatural (note: this is different than the divine) - there are no wrong answers, here. Finally, I need their zodiac/horoscope sign (based on birth date).
They may or may not be making an appearance as an NPC later in a game I may or may not ever run*! Ally? Enemy? Never-see-light-of-game? Who knows*!
Other than that: go nuts! If it's Paizo-or-Dreamscarred-or-Alluria published: sure, go for it! Also, if it's made by Drejk or a badger (either on the blog or published, if PF-compatible (or not, if it has no bearing on the mechanics): feel free to work it in!
*
This thread is so great! I need to post in it, again, soon!
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Tacticslion, you are freakin awesome. Like Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden awesome. Which makes me wonder: is that you Bruce?
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Arcane casters can learn and cast divine spells - at the cost of sanity.
Divine casters can learn and cast arcane spells - at a cost of temporary caster level loss with divine spells, as they lose their connection.
Tacticslion, you are freakin awesome. Like Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden awesome. Which makes me wonder: is that you Bruce?
Hah! Also: Wow! Thank you!
... but no, I am not Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden. Rock on, though!
Arcane casters can learn and cast divine spells - at the cost of sanity.
Divine casters can learn and cast arcane spells - at a cost of temporary caster level loss with divine spells, as they lose their connection.
I’m curious: what kind of sanity loss? How would that be handled, mechanically? Would they slowly gain the insanity of the derro, for example (each spell the learn causing a 1:1 shift; or a weighted version where they lose wisdom/gain charisma based on spell levels or number of spells or something), or is it the acquisition of insanities (like the amnesia or whatever), or is it using a sanity point loss?
How rapidly does the divine CL decrease, exactly? Does it limit the highest spell they can cast? Can this be done at any time? Because while losing ANY CL is usually a no-go, for example, an 18th level cleric might take a -1 penalty to CL if they can still cast 9th level spells, but have wish on their spell selection as well...
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@ Tacticslion,
You are welcome. Don't ever change!
So I had this thought surrounding the fact that Baba Yaga could just make Kostchtchie immortal and trap his soul in an artifact. I could accept that if she were a demigod or something, but she is just a regular ol' mythic NPC!
Now.
The most powerful spell a level 20 sorcerer/wizard/witch can cast is wish, right? Since Baba Yaga is mythic (10!) let's make this mythic wish.
This means that we can do it too!
Why doesn't every 20 level wizard 10 tier arcgmage make themselves immortal?
Perhaps someone is interfering.
Who knows.