Your Best Insomnia - A Place for Ideas While You Can't Sleep


Homebrew and House Rules

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Just for Alzrius... (don't expect this kind of special treatment often, mister!)
Yeah, I know the formatting is off; I'm kind of in a hurry here!
Pathfinder
Hand of Midas (minor artifact) CL 20

A softly glowing human hand severed at the wrist mounted on what appears to be a gold-painted wooden handle with tiny words etched on it floats gently among the ruin of many golden statues dressed in the rotting remains of many styles, some not seen for ages past. Some are dressed partially in gold, though most of the clothing seems normal. All have hands reaching out, and the closest seem to be reaching toward the glowing hand itself. You've never seen something so beautiful as the hand.

The Hand of Midas is a tiny (apparently) gold object, the size and shape of an outstretched human hand seeming to reach for or grasp at something; the hand has been mounted on a golden base complete with handle that looks remarkably like wood. It glows with the radiance of a candle. Etched around the top of the once-wooden handle in an ancient, forgotten tongue is "Woe betide any who take the hand." Below that, in slightly newer (though still ancient) script, "Do not touch above this writ." is etched around the handle. Finally, below that in nearly modern writing on one side only, "To whoever finds this, please trust me when I say to just leave the cursed thing alone. It's not worth losing your friends, loved ones, and everything you hold dear. Also, the economy will crash, and gold won't be worth much." The hand floats on its own approximately a foot off of the ground, slowly rotating with the hand itself mostly pointing upward.

The hand of Midas is the actual hand of an ancient king whose true name is long lost to the ancient past. His legend, however - a warning against hubris and especially against greed - is not. And the ancient, terrible power of his hand could not be undone, even by time and death. All around the place it is located are bent and broken golden almost-humanoid statues with clothing ranging from ancient to modern that seem to have collapsed under their own weight, almost all with hand reaching somewhere, generally the newest being the closest and reaching toward the hand.

While holding the handle is safe enough, touching the actual human hand (the point above the writing on the handle), is not.

The primary power of the Hand of Midas is to create vast wealth for the wielder. Whenever the Hand of Midas (not the handle) is touched to a solid (neither liquid nor gas), tangible (not ethereal or otherwise incorporeal) object or creature (even undead or constructs), the entire object or creature (but not necessarily attachments or clothing, unless those, too, are touched) is instantly turned into solid gold. Magic items and creatures get to make fortitude saves. If the target succeeds at two consecutive DC 38 Fortitude saves (once when touched and once one round thereafter) the effect is negated. If it fails at either save, it instantly transforms. This effect ignores spell resistance. Nothing short of Wish, Miracle, or Polymorph any Object or similar effects can undo this transformation. Break Enchantment, Stone to Flesh, or similar abilities do not work.

Using the Hand in this way is standard action, and can be used as an melee attack that ignores natural armor. If the attack hits the target's armor or shield (the attack roll is equal to or greater than the target's flat-footed AC without natural armor) whichever item it is it touches (armor or shield, 50% chance each) instantly turns into gold; treat gold items as having a hardness of 6, the fragile quality, and double the weight and armor check penalty, and half the hit points of similar items made from steel.

Clothing and other non-metal armors so transformed grant a +2 bonus to AC, but with a maximum DEX modifier of +0, a -7 armor check penalty, reduce speed by half (round down to the nearest 5ft increment, minimum 0ft), and 50% arcane spell failure (if such things inhibit the arms); otherwise they are treated as leather armor with gold qualities, or triple their normal weight, whichever is better. Multiple transformed items stack in AC bonus, armor check penalty, speed reduction, and spell failure.

It can be used in a grappling situation, but this is trickier: if you fail to establish the control in a grapple, your opponent can attempt to force the hand into you, instead. Further, even if you are successful, you would be entangled with a gold statue of your former opponent.

The more insidious power of thus artifact lies in the subtle mental and emotional manipulation it creates. Anyone who sees the hand is immediately compelled to touch it, as if by a Suggestion spell with a will DC 38, though they are not obliged to grab hold of the actual hand itself. This compulsion happens each time a creature sees the hand and is not holding it.

Anyone who holds the artifact slowly becomes more greedy and arrogant. Each time they take hold of the artifact by the handle, they are subject to two Hypnotism effects (Will DC 38 negates; it functions regardless of the hit dice of the wielder) with the suggestions that they use the hand whenever possible, and that they are never capable of misusing it or failing to use it properly. Finally, once per day, at random, they take a -4 penalty to a single action they perform with the artifact or while holding it, similar to a Bestow Curse effect, only with a different duration.

Destruction: There are actually multiple "Hands of Midas" - six, to be exact - and all were created by Nurgal when he was a mere Glabrezu granting wishes for foolish masters. The one described above is the most recent, granted to the last human king Nurgal granted wishes to. In order to destroy a Hand, it must be used on a Glabrezu, after making a pact wish from said creature to destroy the Hand. On a successful attack against the Glabrezu, the hand (but not any handle it has, which simply falls off) fuses with one of their smaller hands without effect, granting them the power of the Hand, but also causing them to suffer the effects. If the demon is somehow disintegrated (whether by spell or some other effect) thereafter, the hand is destroyed with the demon. If the demon is simply killed, however, the hand "falls" back out of it, and returns to normal, though without any handle it might have once had (and thus needs to be remounted somehow). Four of the hands remain on the bodies of their former masters, while one is trapped within an ancient lava flow (now a mound of gold), and the last being as described above. One of the four former masters who still retains the hand, an ancient cyclops lich, has wrapped his hand permanently in thin "paper" (now gold) to be broken and used at any time. The lich has slipped into somnolence, and may soon become a demilich instead.


Brambleman wrote:
I sometimes want to try some radically altered settings, like fully embracing gun rules and using a 3 musketeers style napolionic setting.

I'll get around to building it. Eventually.


First, sad Tactics is sad that Azalius didn't like his Hand of Midas. :(
(EDIT: and after I went to such trouble for you, too!)
Just so you know, I'm just teasing - you likely haven't even seen it, but either way, it was fun to build quickly.

Second, life is pretty awesome! :D

Pathfinder
From this post, most notably ...

James Jacobs wrote:

Adding a more generic capstone that's shared by all clerics though... that would have only added a few lines of text, especially if it were something simple, like:

Apotheosis(Su): Your deity has chosen you as one of the most important representatives of the faith in the world. You may use your domain spells as spell-like abilities—levels 1–4 at will, levels 5–7 3/day, and levels 8–9 1/day, in addition to preparing these spells as regular domain spells. Every time you cast a spell, you or a single ally within 30 feet heals damage equal to twice the spell level being cast. You also gain damage reduction 5 that can be bypassed by one alignment in opposition to your deity's alignment (your choice; neutral deities allow a choice from all four other alignments).

... and this thread (different from above), I've been thinking, again, about gods, their stats, and abilities.

While the Mythic Rules are out now, I'm still thinking about gods themselves.

I'm actually going to stand by my previous idea for right now, but with a little bit of tweaking on the over-all idea.

Cleric/Oracle and Inquisitor spells go on one kind of god, while Druid and Ranger spells go on another. Paladin spells apply to gods that can have paladins (and Antipaladin spells likewise).

While this makes a minor disparity in power, I can actually see this working quite well and providing over-all a kind of balance.

Further, borrowing and adapting from 4E's list of interesting ideas and Paizo's rules, I'm going to say that gods cannot be affected by creatures without mythic levels (instead of below-20th level). This means, among other interesting things, that mythic creatures could, theoretically, affect a god with abilities below 20th level (although in practice, not-so-much). This would naturally lead to gods being highly interested in such creatures.

Another thing about the template approach I've started above, is that, topically, at least, it looks an awful lot like gods will simply be bigger-number-fests, which might seem intimidating or frustrating to many. However, this is actually a rather strong simplification, because a divine god won't get any benefit from cleric-style buffing spells (as they've already got all the benefits and they don't stack); while they would still get bonuses from other sources, that's pretty much true of anyone, and this way it eliminates tracking for an entire suite of spells. As far as ability scores go, while a god's scores are set at a base of 28 (18+4 enhancement+6 inherent), or 36 or 34 (+2 morale to STR and CON, +6 size bonus to STR and +4 size bonus to CON), certain fey (Nymphs and Norns, specifically, at a quick glance), pretty much any true dragon, some constructs (most notably adamatine golems), and many outsiders have scores that approach, rival, or even exceed those given above, meaning that gods are exceedingly powerful, but not instantly beyond the pale of what already exists in-game. Of course, the +1 bonus per four level and +2 bonus every two mythic tiers will hop that up rapidly. But still.

One other thing about gods' is their stuff:

me wrote:
Magic Vestment-and-Reinforce Armaments-plus-Effortless Armor (anything a deity wears is automatically +5 or greater, loses the fragile quality, becomes masterwork, and doubles its hardness; a deity automatically ignores up to 5 points of armor check penalty and armor never slows a deity down); add to Shield of Faith (though that doesn't affect the armor itself)

and

me wrote:
Badger's Ferocity-and/or-Keen Edge (like with the magic vestment above - every weapon wielded is automatically keen) also Weapon of Awe (automatically applies to any weapon wielded, +2 sacred to damage, successful crit - which now has doubled range, recall - causes shaken for 1 round), and Returning Weapon (all weapons gain the returning quality); Also Magic Siege Engine (I really didn't think it needed another spell for that considering...)-and-Magic Weapon (both the greater varieties, which means all weapons are automatically +5 or higher, too) and Bestow Weapon Proficiency (gods are automatically proficient with every weapon) plus Align Weapon (redundantly causes a weapon to be your alignment) and don't forget Magic Stone-and-Magic Fang-and-Shillelagh

... means that you don't really need to worry about godly equipment... like, at all. Of course, you could, but really a god automatically get masterwork, lighter-than-necessary armor and weapons of whatever kind they want whenever they want from whatever materials are at hand. With their ability modifier (generally a minimum of 9), they don't even need to worry about the craft skill, as they gain an additional +7 minimum bonus (quick adding up from the spells noted above) to all skill checks (including craft checks) meaning a total of +16 minimum. That's pretty much an automatic success (even on a natural 1) on every listed craft item except exceptionally heavy armors (requires a 3), certain alchemical items (requires a 9), exotic weapons (requires a 2), or exceptionally high strength ratings on composite bows (requires a check result of 41 for a typical god's strength modifier, which would require a check result of 25... or 12 ranks of craft and a roll of 10 for a typical god). Even then, except for composite bows with strength scores, gods can rather handily presume they can get what they want whenever they want with Fabricate (most gods probably have a ring of quickened fabricate at will - the only piece of equipment they'd actually need, and a god with the Artifice domain wouldn't even need that, which means Torag, Brigh, Droskar, Yuelral, Minderhal, Mammon, Ose, Malthus, Apsu, Cixryon, Daikitsu, Sabnach, Stygidvod, Yaezhing, Yamasoth in Golarion- or Pathfinder-related settings).

(EDIT: That's a lot of gods, mostly evil, but including one of the Big 20!)

One other idea that's been kicking around in my head for a little bit recently is the idea that (again, pulling from 4E's book, but also from 3.0's Deities and Demigods) gods might not have a single, true, corporeal form, normally (unlike Empyreal Lords, Arch Devils, or the like), but rather have certain, specific incarnations, or avatars - basically specially-built physical forms that provide certain boons or benefits for the god in question. The thing about these avatars is that they may or may not be similar to one another.

example from a quick game I ran once:
To reference a very short deity-level-power FR game that I ran last year, Loviatar had an avatar built that was effectively an advanced gestalt Erinyes/Kyton (both from the 3.5 Monster Manual) as the base creature instead of a normal humanoid outsider [she still retained her class levels, though]; said avatar was a living pact, a binding contract between Loviatar and a huge suite of Kytons and Erinyeses ("Erinyi"? "Erinyesi"? What's the plural of "Erinyes"?). Without the avatar, the pact was broken and the creatures in question (otherwise unquestionably loyal) would return to the shadow plane or hell, respectively. (The PCs goal was to kill it and eventually they succeeded, greatly weakening Loviatar's power for the next year.)

That's what I mean: the avatars serve specific uses and purposes for a god. One other idea, borrowed from 4E and reference the mystery of Aroden's death, is that a "greater" god can be bound into one of its corporeal form, but each god requires a unique, extraordinarily difficult (and mythic) quest to do so. Upon doing so, the actual god-essence is bound into the avatar for a time, making it more powerful, but also making it vulnerable to a true death.

Something like this may have been what happened to Aroden (yeah, yeah, yet another option/theory, among many :D).


Oh, and, related to the above...
Pathfinder

Gods will likely have races that they are associated with, and thus their physical forms (or Incarnations or Avatars, if you're going with that idea) will have those traits, too.

For example, Sarenrae was originally a Solar, so her stats would start with those at their base. This basically means increasing her scores by 17 (if odd) or 18 (if even), at least if you go with my other ideas (+4 enhancement, +6 inherent, treat as if "rolled" 18s, while monsters are generally treated as if "rolled" 10s or 11s) [she may or may not grow even larger and thus a +6 STR and +4 CON because she's already large size... I'm not looking at right now, and I'd have to think about it, or you guys would].

Further, she'd already start with 22 HD and cleric caster level of 20, which means simply advancing her in mythic tiers (specifically as a hierophant) for godlike power.

One other thing about godstats, is that they're presumed to be

Also, a Acheakek doesn't seem to follow my suggestions... unless you start with a deadly mantis (sybtype of giant mantis. The strength and charisma don't mesh (Achaekek's are too low, as-printed; specifically the STR by 18 pts and the CHA by 4 pts), but the DEX, CON, and WIS are spot-on (again, the gods ignore penalties for size, and as Achaekek is already colossal, it can't get any bigger, thus the STR and CON don't increase by +6/+4). As for the intelligence, the deadly mantis has none at all ("INT -") while Achaekek has one ("INT 6"), so that's rather hard to judge... I could see the argument that INT 24 (modifier of 7) on a non-ability score creature would translate instead to what the modifier would have been (7). That would make a negligible increase in Achaekek's intelligence. Yeah, it's convoluted, but I can still see said argument; especially since Achaekek is based off a Vermin-type and, unless I'm mistaken, there's no way (currently within the rules) to Awaken a Vermin-type (only Plant and Animal types).

Similarly, if a god were built out of a creature without some other ability score (such as an incorporeal base creature), it would be treated as if it had an ability score (STR in this case) equal to the modifier it would have had if said creature had the ability score in the first place (so an STR of 13 for a "basic" god build that didn't emphasize it). This allows gods to do things that other creatures of similar types simply couldn't do (have actual skill ranks for a vermin-type in Achaekek's case, or affect physical objects in the hypothetical incorporeal god's case; an undead god, like Urgathoa, then, would have a higher "window" until destruction: instead of 0 hp, it would be 12, based on a "typical" god build [normal CON score 34, thus a normal modifier of 12, ergo this instead of this, though she'd still use her - likely much higher - charisma score instead of constitution for hit points).

Right. Just thinking about that for a bit, and thought I'd share it.


HEY, MODS, I FLAGGED MY OWN MESSAGE BECAUSE OF FAILED TAGS AND SPOILERS.

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST EVERYONE. CARRY ON. :)

Pathfinder

Yet another thought, based on this thread. Gods probably can smite any non-divine target at will.

ALSO, Ydersius' stats do not bear this out (the printed Ydersius is kind of stupid, really - of course he's supposed to be a super-sorcerer and isn't, soooooooooooooooo... I'm guessing his stats are just meant to be a very lesser version, due to *SPOILERS* lacking the 20 sorcerer levels and 10 mythic tiers he'd otherwise have).

Stuff about Ydersius, don't read if you're playing through or will be a player in Serpent's Skull AP:
Ydersius' stats call themselves out as being a tremendously reduced-in-power form of the god, who was once supposedly a great sorcerer. This is because after he was killed by the mortal hero Savith, his severed head lay alone in a pool of lava for millennia, before being picked up by a mortal human mage (not Aroden) and used to gain advice and power to govern said mortal's people through the age of darkness before having its lips sewn up and the skull turned into an artifact, and then thrown... ahem... BACK INTO THE FIERY CHASM FROM WHENCE IT CAME (sorry, I had to), which was thereafter cooled into solid stone. In that stone, the skull (which is all that was left) would reside as a nearly insensate artifact for many more millennia before being discovered and rescued. Although it kind of had to be shattered to get it out of the rock. And then thrown into a hole where it could finally rejoin with the headless body and slowly begin regenerating.

All that to explain that the statblock is built around this only-partially-regenerated Ydersius idea. While I don't have the stats in front of me at this point... I remember them well enough to know that they don't completely buck my base idea, and that where they do, it may well be because, well, the Ydersius as-presented was weak and (literally) broken, and trying to recover.

EDITED to clarify and fix things.


Thor and Hercules both have supreme strength. This means if they play tug of war with something, their strengths will keep rising.
I once designed a list of powers for deities. Supreme ability means no matter how high someone or thing gets, the deity will have that ability one higher.


Pathfinder Ideas

Reference a previous topic, (the idea of altering the action economy)...

Specifically, when dual wielding, you may make an attack action with the second weapon as a move action instead of standard (the first weapon is still a standard). The question that begs, of course, is "What drawback will dual wielding have?" to which I have several potential answers, but no solid ones:

  • deal half the strength modifier damage instead of strength modifier
  • take an additional -2 penalty to all attacks (so iterative attacks beyond the first two are likely out) <this is likely mitigated by feats>
  • requiring the second attack to function off of Dexterity instead...
  • ... or requiring the weapon finesse (or similar) feat
  • requiring a certain dexterity score to proceed
  • some combination of or variant on the above

Anyway, just a thought that struck me today, so I thought I'd share it as I continue to mull over things.


Ok so I'm yet again getting into bed far too late to be healthy. I'm postponing that for another few minutes though, to post this:

I had this idea to prevent monk MADness and in general to change some stuff around, to make a character concept less based on ability scores.

I want to divorce the "mental" and "behavioral" ability scores from the system so that a player can make, and play, an intelligent fighter without actually having to put points in intelligence, just like you can play a stupid yet magically skilled wizard without nerfing your ability to cast spells.

The idea is pretty simple. We simply remove ability scores from the system entirely. Everything that is based on ability scores is based on a static modifiers that scale with level (slowly). Not all of these need to scale, instead only some class abilities scale.

This would naturally require a reworking of the entire class and race system. In fact now I can picture races to work in a different fashion as well.


So... really frustrating that I thought I posted quite some time back, and apparently didn't. Erg.
Pathfinder Ideas

Reference a previous topic, (the idea of altering the action economy)...

Specifically, what I said before,

me wrote:

When dual wielding, you may make an attack action with the second weapon as a move action instead of standard (the first weapon is still a standard). The question that begs, of course, is "What drawback will dual wielding have?" to which I have several potential answers, but no solid ones:

  • deal half the strength modifier damage instead of strength modifier
  • take an additional -2 penalty to all attacks (so iterative attacks beyond the first two are likely out) <this is likely mitigated by feats>
  • requiring the second attack to function off of Dexterity instead...
  • ... or requiring the weapon finesse (or similar) feat
  • requiring a certain dexterity score to proceed
  • some combination of or variant on the above

Anyway, just a thought that struck me today, so I thought I'd share it as I continue to mull over things.

So I've thought of things for a bit.

Let's make it as follows:

Two Weapon Fighting wrote:

When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, the following effects apply:

  • You take a -3 penalty to all attack rolls and half strength damage, but attacks after the first are move actions instead of standard actions.
  • You take -2 penalty for each weapon wielded that isn't a light weapon^
  • The weapon with the lightest category is considered to be your secondary or off-hand weapon and is the only one you may use move actions to make attacks with; if both weapons are the same category, it doesn't matter which is the primary and which is off-hand.

^(mithril could be useful for this)

Tada! Easy enough.

Now, let's make a basic feat chain for it!

Two Weapon Fighting Feat Chain wrote:
  • Two Weapon Fighting: This feat reduces penalties for two-weapon fighting by 2 (minimum - 0); you may wield a single one-handed weapon, so long as the other is light without taking additional penalties. (Normally: you take a -2 penalty for each weapon that isn't light.)
  • Improved Two Weapon Fighting: {Requires: Two Weapon Fighting} This feat reduces penalties for two-weapon fighting by 2 (minimum -0); you may wield two one-handed or lighter weapons without taking additional penalties. (Normally: you take a -2 penalty for each weapon that isn't light.)
  • Greater Two Weapon Fighting: {Requires: Two Weapon Fighting, and Improved Two Weapon Fighting} This feat reduces penalties for two-weapon fighting by 2 (minimum -0); during a round, after you've already made two attacks, you may make an attack with a weapon as a minor action. (Normally: each attack made in a round is a standard action, or when wielding two weapons or a double weapon, each attack after the first is a move action.)

Welp! That takes care of the most basic feat chain. What about more options? (By the way, if it's not obvious, I'm just adapting the already-extant two weapon fighting feats.)

Two Weapon Fighting Feats wrote:
  • Break Guard: {Requires: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Two Weapon Fighting} When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, you may attempt a disarm maneuver with one weapon as a standard action; if successful, you may make an attack with the other weapon as a swift action.

  • Dorn Derger Master: {Requires Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Proficiency (Dorn Derger)} You can use a dorn-dergar as a one-handed weapon. When using it one-handed, changing whether it’s a normal or reach weapon is a full-round action. If you have the Darting Viper^ feat, changing its reach is a move action.

  • Two Weapon Defense: {Requires Two Weapon Fighting} When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.

  • Two Weapon Feint: {Requires: Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting} When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, you may make a bluff check to feint your opponent as a move action. (Normally: feinting is a standard action that denies the opponent their dexterity to AC )
  • Improved Two Weapon Feint: {Requires: Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Feint} When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, you may make a bluff check to feint your opponent as a move action; if you successfully feint, your opponent is denied their dexterity bonus to AC until the end of your turn.

  • Double Slice: {Requires: Two Weapon Fighting} When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, your attacks deal full strength modifier additional damage instead of half. (Normally: you only deal half your strength modifier damage instead.)
  • Two Weapon Rend: {Requires: Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice} Once per round, if you hit an opponent with both weapons, you deal 1d10 damage plus 1.5 times your strength modifier damage as a free action.

  • Shield Slam:{Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Two Weapon Fighting} Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to spend a swift action to move with your target.
  • Bashing Finish: {Improved Shield Bash, Shield Master, Two Weapon Fighting} Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.

  • Sword and Pistol: {Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot^, Snap Shot^, Two Weapon Fighting} When you use the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielding a melee weapon and a ranged weapon, your attacks with the ranged weapon provoke no opportunity actions from foes that you threaten with your melee weapon. (Normal: Ranged attacks in melee provoke opportunity actions from foes you are in melee with.)

  • Twin Thunders: {Requires race <dwarf or gnome with defensive racial trait>, Two Weapon Fighting or flurry of blows, and Weapon Focus with wielded weapons} Once per round while wielding a bludgeoning weapon in each hand (including unarmed strikes) against a foe with the giant subtype, if you hit with both weapons, roll the off hand weapon damage twice and add the results together before adding any other bonuses. This additional damage is not multiplied on a critical hit, though you still gain the additional damage.

^[ooc](I haven't looked into these feats too closely to see how they align with the action economy. I'll need to do that. I'm preserving them here for the sake of being straightforward about it.)

So there you go!

So tell me what you think. Good? Bad? Need tweaking?


So, a short idea that hit me recently as "kind of neat", even if it is kind of basic...

Pathfinder Ideas

In a world of power, magic, and mystery, there is a country. Within that country there are only nineteen - out of hundreds of thousands - with a spark of true power... the power to make them legends, or the power to pull them into oblivion.

  • The Fury: one whose spirit was tainted with dark power filling him with rage that may one day consume him.
  • The Song: one who was touched by the world of the fey, where she learned their weird magic, and the hints of the power of creation.
  • The Prophet: one who is filled by the divine, a direct conduit to the gods, unlike the mere priests who practice careful-though-limited spells.
  • The Balance-Keeper: one who has achieved true harmony and communion with the natural world, and has dedicated himself to all that it entails.
  • The Militant: one who has mastered weaponry of all sorts, and who has achieved a near nirvana-like state of power within the comfort of her steel.
  • The Master: one who has achieved true enlightenment, and has a far deeper understanding of the self and spirit than their peers.
  • The Crusader: a sacred warrior-monk whose devotion, faith, and purity have been rewarded by the gods.
  • The Wanderer: a loner and wandering soul who seeks solace within the hidden places of the world.
  • The Trickster: a skilled genius who's mastered a huge array of abilities, and capable of even greater feats when catching someone off guard.
  • The Blooded: scion of a long-line of people who claim in their ancestry a creature of myth and legend... but he has finally learned to tap into that power.
  • The Sage: a brilliant scholar of ancient lore and forbidden rites who has learned to wring secret forces from the universe.
  • The Researcher: an herbalist and doctor who uncovered a mysterious liquid that could could be the beginning of glory or madness.
  • The Knight: a powerful tactician and man at arms, his pride and honor will uphold no matter the strain.
  • The Engineer: a simple engineer who's discovered a remarkable trick - the ability to use powder and fire to launch high speed projectiles. She may be on the verge of changing the world.
  • The Purifier: a devotee, so dedicated to the church, he refuses to be blind to its own imperfections or dangers.
  • The Blade: one who has discovered an ancient and forgotten secret, that she uses to destroy all who would stand before her.
  • The Vessel: a vessel of divine might and power and the bearer of a terrible curse, with the potential to bring light or destruction.
  • The Bound: one who has bound their soul to a kindred spirit - a creature from beyond reality - both gaining power from the bond that would never be possible.
  • The Chosen: one impressed with power from forces beyond his control, he will use his bizarre gifts to gain great power.

Yeah, so in case it wasn't obvious, there is one - and only one - person with a PC class in this world (or at least this one continent-wide region).

The rest of the premise includes that there aren't many magical treasures, and there are precious few monsters (all of which are found in the Bestiary), but there are enough. While the rest of the world (except for the monsters) end at 6th level, the nineteen PC-classed characters have no such level cap (theirs is instead 20th).

There are just enough - literally, just barely enough - monsters to defeat of a given CR within the continent for all nineteen PC classed characters to gain an appropriate amount of XP to gain a level. While things like angels, azatas, demons, and devils do exist, they have pretty much locked each other out of reality, so, unless the PCs leave, they aren't going to run into them much, meaning most outsiders are effectively "out" of the game. They can gain additional XP by interacting with NPCs, but given that NPCs have a strict level cap of 6th level, they're not going to be getting all that much, comparatively.

There have never been PC classed characters aside from these, and there are never going to be PC classed characters or creatures again.

There is a total amount of magical treasure in the world to be appropriate wealth-by-level for all nineteen creatures... but good luck finding it. Wealth, on the other hand (coins, art, and gems) exists in abundance. Given the 6th level cap, they are never going to find anything higher than 2nd level spells. Potions and scrolls and some wondrous items of that level and lower do exist in fair supply, however, they only exist from the Adept spell list. (The world-wide treasure is easily pre-made, although it could be customizable; incidentally, this really ups the value of craft feats.)

Instead of their normal ecology, any non-animal or non-humanoid monsters (and a number of monstrous humanoids and certain humanoid subtypes) are presumed to be effectively immortal from age. The reason the most powerful creatures are not rampaging and taking control is that they have been kept in check and bound by ancient seals put into place by ancient adept rituals that are now lost to time, whose power is slowly eroding (incidentally they are eroding juuuuuuust fast enough that the PCs can gain levels by them). The PCs can "outpace" the erosion by hunting down and destroying the creatures'. They are slated to gain a level once per in-game year (so the seals erode at about that rate).

The slow XP track is used, and they gain 10% less XP than normal. Mythic advancement is used, if there is only one PC.

The PC classed characters are expected to take over the world (or at least the continent) eventually. They do not necessarily all exist at the same time, and may come about in different groups, or in succession.

The planes exist, but outside of the shadow, ethereal, and astral are extraordinarily distant.

It uses the action economy variant I created above, but everyone also receives two additional skill points that must be placed in a craft, perform, or profession.

Otherwise, it behaves as standard Pathfinder.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: When a solo PC dies, or even in the event of a TPK with multiples, that's not the end of the campaign, necessarily. Instead whatever menace destroys, conquers, or - in some cases - integrates into the local area and becomes a standard for the next individual or group of individuals. EDIT 2: This basically just makes a fascinating tapestry of a living world.

Further, I realize that this takes a lot of inspiration - style wise, at least - from the old original D&D games, but it just kind of hit me that it's kind of neat from a PF perspective.

Also, regardless of rarity in other games, all of the Player Races are available and they all function as self-perpetuating races. The world is extremely integrated. If a mixed breed race doesn't exist, that's because children aren't possible, or the result is basically one of the two "parent" races.

EDIT 2: One thing, while the Christmas Tree effect is still there, there's no more magic mart, and nothing in the way of markets to simply purchase magic items off of a person. A dedicated mage with the right items could create such a thing, but he'd be altering the local economy and no one before or since would likely ever change the world by bringing so much magic as he.

Further, with weaker NPCs than the monsters, at higher levels you'd likely be giving away weaker magic items to said NPCs rather than selling them, especially when it's likely you'd rule great swaths of people. And I'd probably give everyone the leadership feat for free automatically at seventh level (kind of a "congratulations, you've broken the limits of mortality" thing).

Also worth noting, I just used random she/he pronouns above, though mostly striving to avoid them altogether: while each PC is unique, each PC is also customizable.

Being the only time a PC class can ever exist means that PCs will likely be very cautious. A character that dies with no means of resurrection (or reincarnation) stays dead. A new character is rolled up (well, point-bought up) at first level. I'm thinking of adding a mechanic that allows PCs to "sense" equivalent potential within other creatures. This means that when they come across someone with the "potential", they'll likely work very hard to bring them up to speed, and train them in talents by going on easier adventures (to keep them alive) until they're leveled up.

Finally, even if characters manage to wrack up an obscene amount of XP in a short time, they can never gain a level faster than one per month. They don't lose out on XP, they just level up one month at a time.


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The wizard would do well to be mindfull off history. Youre only source of spells beyond 2nd lv. is your predecessors spell book.


That's actually a really good point, Brambleman, especially if the witch or some other arcane class came first (and they wrote on scrolls). One slightly alternate possibility is that there are only eight or nine sages possible instead of only one (one for each school specialty, possibly one for generalists, or possibly reflavored Thassilonian specialist), though I'm not sold on it. That would make the total number of creatures 26 or 27, depending. It would also open the door to other "class defining choices" being repeated, so I'm really not too keen on it.

Also, just to clarify where the heck all the magical treasure that exists in the world actually came from: angels. Well, angels, devils, demons, azatas, archons, and other outsiders. Back when they actually existed.

Also, a slight retcon: instead of adepts that sealed the world, it was likely the overwhelming (i.e. ninth caster level, twelve hit dice) power of the couatls with the ritual elements of the adepts.

Note, I'm thinking of making the progeniter-couatls, something like dragon disciples, cyphermages, magaambyan arcanists, tattooed mystic, or veiled illusionists, or some other prestige class or perhaps even mythic archmages or heirophants, in order to explain the difference between the nineteen still-extant couatls and what they accomplished in ancient times. One idea is that all dragons are, in fact, simply couatls who took the dragon disciple prestige, or their progeny.

However, the seals required great sacrifice, and the couatls didn't want to eliminate everyone. Thus, a few (nineteen, or maybe twenty six or twenty sevel: notice the connection? eh? eh? eheh... sorry) infant couatls survived (though lacking any knowledge of their progenitors' powers) and grew over time, though never to the progenitors' abilities. Thus the seals were unable to be maintained indefinitely, and new heroes are needed to literally save the world... if they don't damn it, first.


The couatl idea is one I'm waffling on, but the point of the above is to give some sort of cohesion and to allow a vague-but-prophetic form of "guidance", if the PCs seek it out enough. By their vows, the couatls couldn't interfere directly (unless personally targeted), thus explaining the need for heroes anyway.

One of the interesting elements of the above idea is that, while it's a campaign, it's almost like a board game: you can run it again and again and come up with different results every time. Yes, of course you can do that with RPGs in general, but with this one in specific, while the rules and most basic summary are the same, the actual game itself can vary wildly.

Perhaps in one game there are predominantly small elementals or elemental-templated creatures for the first few levels, and the player characters choose a classic adventuring party to start the game off. They progress later to mephits and other elementals. As time marches on (and the characters get old and die) perhaps the same group of players switch to more unconventional party make ups, as they predominantly face against more powerful elemental creatures until they're fighting, I don't know, let's say an Imperial Forest Dragon Great Wyrm whose backstory was that s/he an ancient couatl who took the path of dragon disciple, and refused to sacrifice himself for the ritual in ancient days, instead seeking to own it, and was rejected and bound by his brethren; now become a true dragon, he plans on devouring and conquering all that was denied him before. Perhaps he was part of a group of five (19/4 = 4.75 or 5), including a Primal Magma Great Wyrm, a Chromatic Blue Great Wyrm, a 'corrupted' (I use the term lightly, as each of these are entirely unique creatures) Metallic Silver Great Wyrm, and perhaps an advanced Half-fiend, alchemically invisible, Jabberwock (a creature that was corrupted and twisted during its exile compared to its bretheren... but no less powerful, and, in fact, more so, if insane). Thus the campaign world was saved from the invading elemental destruction that awaited it, this for good, by the mortal (super) heroes chosen by destiny (or, perhaps, the gods) to stand in the gap.

Meanwhile, another campaign could focus on undead. Perhaps they start by facing reanimated zombies and skeletons, perhaps a few festrogs, and the generations work there way forward to face the grim reaper, and its master, the advanced ravener.

Another might be focused on aberrations. Or magical beasts (and end with facing the Tarrasque. Another might have no particular connecting theme between the creatures involved.

Some parties might have very non-traditional roles like an all-arcane party or an all warrior party to start with, or perhaps intermingled traditional and non-traditional at the beginning and throughout.

Regardless, each time its played through and entire continent's (and thus an entire world's) history, through generations, is remade into a new story, a new tapestry. And that's in addition to the variables that already exist within RPGs: setting the defined limits as they are above, allow for interesting historical events to occur, and to allow 19 characters to change the world in a truly meaningful way. Never before and never again will there be people like those mighty heroes of myth. And one day, men will look back and question the truth: for surely, no creatures such as they could ever have truly existed!

(By the way: anyone who's part of the second or later "generations" of heroes would do really, really well to be mindful of history, because then they'd get to know what's happening far more easily than their predecessors, who had practically nothing to work with. But wizards would get better things out of it, yes, if there was more than one wizard.)

Anyway, that's why I think it's a nifty idea.


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Here, have a (semi) magic item.

Book of Shadows.
A spell book for witches. Often passed down from teacher to student or in successive generations of witches in a family. Usually a large tome, often stuffed with extra pages full of notes, recipes (for anything from stews to mundane alchemical cures to magic potions) and family history.

A witch can prepare her spells from this book in the same manner of a wizard with some differences.

If the spell she wishes to prepare is not already in her familiar, she requires 2 spell slots of the appropriate level.
If the spell is also only normally available from a Patrons bonus spells, she requires 3 spell slots to prepare it.

Furthermore, the witch must make checks as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook even if she already knows the spell to be prepared.

Older books often grant a bonus to Knowledge checks due to the notes and records. Treat it as a minor library.

Really old Books of Shadow are quite often magical in other ways, some even possessing intelligence.

Crafting one of these books requires a witch with the Coven Hex. I'm not sure what else though.


Natan Linggod 972 wrote:

Here, have a (semi) magic item.

Book of Shadows.
A spell book for witches. Often passed down from teacher to student or in successive generations of witches in a family. Usually a large tome, often stuffed with extra pages full of notes, recipes (for anything from stews to mundane alchemical cures to magic potions) and family history.

A witch can prepare her spells from this book in the same manner of a wizard with some differences.

If the spell she wishes to prepare is not already in her familiar, she requires 2 spell slots of the appropriate level.
If the spell is also only normally available from a Patrons bonus spells, she requires 3 spell slots to prepare it.

Furthermore, the witch must make checks as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook even if she already knows the spell to be prepared.

Older books often grant a bonus to Knowledge checks due to the notes and records. Treat it as a minor library.

Really old Books of Shadow are quite often magical in other ways, some even possessing intelligence.

Crafting one of these books requires a witch with the Coven Hex. I'm not sure what else though.

It's a special item. Special items are touched by forces and beings beyond mortal casting. The cover is dragon, giant, or some other monster skin. It requires a ritual, which I detailed in my ritual topic, which may create a vacuouse Grimore if it fails. The cost of 50,000 is a base for the bidding to start.


So I found theses rather awesome metagame artifacts the other day.

So awesome. So many ideas and so much potential.

(Further tangent: now considering a campaign where all the PCs get a scar and a sliver (which come from a shattered hourglass, naturally) and roll up three similar characters that phase in and out of reality as time goes on, switching places with each other. Eventually, a big secret reveal will occur*!)

* Spoiler!:
They're all Shyka the Many, or at least will be when they "mature".

Anyway, it's something that kept me up late last night, but I didn't post on until now.


It's time for evern more outrageous stuff that I might never put into a game, that I promised quite some time ago! The magical locations that augment warriors!

3.X/Pathfinder (d20)

Without further ado, I present: artifact-like Magical Locations (as seen in the 3.5 book, Dungeon Master's Guide 2)! (Warrior edition)

me wrote:

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (least)

Prerequisite: must have a base attack bonus of +5 or higher.

Activation: You must spend eleven un-interrupted hours of meditation (using full-round actions that provoke opportunity attacks) within the confines of the area to draw the understanding into yourself.

Effect: This has three benefits

  • You can make an attack action (even a full attack) or use a combat maneuver as an action two steps less costly than before (full round becomes a move action, standard actions become swift action, move actions become free actions, and swift and free actions don't require any effort at all) once per round per Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment.
  • Choose any three (Combat) Feats. You do not need to meet all the prerequisites for these feats to select or use them, however you do need to have a prerequisite feat. You may select feats that are part of the same feat tree with this boon. For example, if you want Spring Attack, but do not currently possess Dodge or Mobility, you may choose to take Dodge, Mobility, and Spring attack with this effect. You also automatically gain Catch Off-Guard, Defensive Combat Training, Improved Unarmed Strike, Throw Anything, and Weapon Focus and proficiency in a single weapon group (as defined in the Fighter Weapon Training weapon groups) of your choice as bonus feats. If you already have those feats, you may select any combat feat that you qualify for as above instead. You also gain Armor Proficiency and Shield Proficiency with the lightest category of armor and lightest category of shield you currently lack proficiency with, and Weapon Proficiency for any one additional weapon you currently lack proficiency in.
  • You also increase your base attack bonus by +1 for all purposes (though this doesn't increase your class level, hit dice, or experience point totals) to a maximum equal to your hit dice. This is an increase, not a bonus. In addition, you reduce any penalties you take for making iterative attacks or ranged penalties by a total 5 (minimum -0)^. This lessened penalty applies to flurry of blows and two weapon fighting as well.

Notes:
^ This does not stack with itself from a single application of this boon. If you take a -7 from iterative attacks and ranged penalties (-5 from a second attack in a round, -2 due to distance) this only reduces the penalty to -2. If you somehow gained the benefit of two locations, it stacks with itself, and you could reduce the same penalty down to -0.

This affects up to two creatures simultaneously.

Duration: instantaneous

Recharge: one year

Cost (estimated value): 21 million gold

Special: even once recharged, you can never gain the benefits of a given Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment more than once. Uses of multiple locations stack.

Drawback: When this is used, you must choose from one of four drawbacks:

  • Your CHA score is decreased by 2. This drawback can only occur once.
  • Your AC is reduced by 2. This drawback can occur up to two times for a total of -4.
  • You instantly lose two hit points per hit dice. This cannot bring you below 0 hit points, but it can reduce your total to 0. You forever after earn 2 fewer hit points than you would normally gain (minimum 0).
  • You instantly lose two hit dice and the experience points to go with it. This loss is not temporary, it is instantaneous. If this would bring you below the necessary level to access the site's powers, you lose the benefit of the magic location until you earn enough experience points to achieve the required level, at which point the benefits begin functioning for you again.

If you already have any feats this would grant you, you may exchange those for other combat feats.

Then...

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (lesser) wrote:

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (lesser)

This is exactly the same as Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (least), save that you must have a base attack bonus of at least +10, you gain five feats and Improvised Weapon Mastery and weapon proficiency, weapon focus, and weapon specialization to a single fighter weapon group instead of just weapon focus and proficiency (though you can't choose a group you already chose for a Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment), you gain Pounce as an ability that functions with any attacks (with natural weapons - including unarmed attacks - and manufactured weapons) and with all combat maneuvers, and you must concentrate for 22 hours. Its estimated worth is 63 million gold. The penalties increase to three each instead of two (3 points of CHA, penalty of three to AC, loss of three hit points, or loss of three HD). If you have weapon focus for any weapon, you also gain weapon specialization.

As always if you already have any feats this would grant you, except weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies, you may exchange those for other combat feats.

Plus...

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (greater) wrote:

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (greater)

This is exactly the same as Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (least), save that that you must have a base attack bonus of at least +15, you gain seven feats, and weapon proficiency, weapon focus, weapon specialization, and greater weapon focus to a single fighter weapon group instead of just weapon focus (though you can't choose a group you already chose for a Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment), the Rend special ability (that also works with combat maneuvers that deal damage), and you must concentrate for 33 hours. Its estimated worth is 126 million gold. The penalties increase to four each instead of two (4 points of CHA, penalty of four to AC, loss of four hit points, or loss of four HD). If you have weapon focus or specialization for any weapon, you also gain greater weapon focus. If you have weapon focus on any weapon, but not weapon specialization, you gain weapon specialization for that weapon.

As always if you already have any feats this would grant you, except weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies, you may exchange those for other combat feats.

And finally...

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (true) wrote:

Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (true)

This is exactly the same as Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment (least), save that that you must have a base attack bonus of at least +20, you gain ten feats, and weapon proficiency, weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, and greater weapon specialization to a single fighter weapon group instead of just weapon focus (though you can't choose a group you already chose for a Bastion of Deadly Enlightenment), and the Ferocity ability save you do not take damage each round, and you must concentrate for 44 hours. Its estimated worth is 210 million gold. If you choose, instead of a feat, you may select up to one of the benefits listed below. You may choose a multiple benefits more than once by sacrificing multiple feats.
  • Gain DR 5/- (this stacks with any other DR you may have from any source or kind). This can be chosen up to three times, and can stack with itself, up to a maximum of DR 15/-.
  • Gain a +2 inherent bonus to Strength or Dexterity. This can be chosen three times, and can stack with inherent bonuses granted by abilities like Wish or Miracle, to a maximum of +6.
  • Gain a +2 inherent bonus to all attacks and combat maneuvers. This stacks with itself, to a maximum inherent bonus of +6.
  • Increase the number of iterative attacks you can make in a round by one. These iterative attacks do not suffer from the normal penalty to attack rolls. This can be chosen up to three times.
  • Gain the ability to act as if under the effects of a haste spell for a number of rounds per day equal to your hit dice as a supernatural ability. This does not take an action to activate and can be used in increments as small as one round. This can be chosen up to three times, to a maximum number of rounds per day equal to three times your hit dice.

The penalties increase to five each instead of two (5 points of CHA, penalty of five to AC, loss of five hit points, or loss of five HD).
If you have weapon focus, greater weapon focus, or weapon specialization for any weapon, you also gain greater weapon specialization. If you have weapon focus or specialization for any weapon, you also gain greater weapon focus. If you have weapon focus or weapon specialization on any weapon, but lack weapon specialization or greater weapon focus for that weapon, you gain weapon specialization or greater weapon focus (whichever you don't have) for that weapon.

As always if you already have any feats this would grant you, except weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies, you may exchange those for other combat feats.

So... I'm not entirely sure it's balanced with the caster one, but it's a start. So... what do you guys think? Is it good? Too good relative to the magic one? Not good enough relative to the magic one? What do you say?

Again, much like the magic one, I wouldn't use the drawbacks... that's just not my style. However, they are there for you guys to use them, if you'd ever use use such a thing as this in your games. :)

EDIT: several times rapidly to negate a rather suprising abusive loophole.


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Pathfinder

I have to get up early for work and the first of my finals is coming up but I have been thinking between bouts of cramming about incorporating the Specialties in the D&D Next playtest into Pathfinder. Essentially they are prescribed feat trees for players wanting to play a particular character type (dual wielding, archery, blaster mage, etc.). This would be presented in addition to the simplified rules presented in the Beginners Box. As only one person in my gaming group ever has interest in playing a spellcaster at any given time, I have also been thinking about going as far as making some of the 0 to 1st spells accessible by feats but would have a very narrow focus (healing, identify/detection, etc.).


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Dustin James Nelson wrote:

Pathfinder

I have to get up early for work and the first of my finals is coming up but I have been thinking between bouts of cramming about incorporating the Specialties in the D&D Next playtest into Pathfinder. Essentially they are prescribed feat trees for players wanting to play a particular character type (dual wielding, archery, blaster mage, etc.). This would be presented in addition to the simplified rules presented in the Beginners Box. As only one person in my gaming group ever has interest in playing a spellcaster at any given time, I have also been thinking about going as far as making some of the 0 to 1st spells accessible by feats but would have a very narrow focus (healing, identify/detection, etc.).

If the GM wants to give feats for survive-ability and background immersion this would be good. Monk could be a brawler, studious, or meditative.


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Wonderlanders: Wonderland floats in limbo like a Continent. They are all mad, and fear anyone not mad. Lawfulness leads to evil among them. The animals all talk and frequently wear clothing. Some flowers and cards walk and talk too. Their poems and rhymes are more about entertainment, and should never have a point.


I... I can't post what kept me awake last night, 'cause it's going into RPG Superstar.

But man did it keep me awake last night.


Since I can't post that, however, what about this?

me wrote:

Also, a house-rule I use in my games a lot is the concept of derivative ability scores - i.e. those scores that come as a result of your other scores. These are basic appearances only: they do nothing for you mechanically, unless the GM rules otherwise. They are only there to govern how you are percieved by others. This allows low charisma people to have great beauty and (like the Justin Beiber example above) can even give people the feel of being "cursed" with good looks. It also allows some degree of separation from CHA and appearance. Anyway, here's my write up (modified for the boards here).

I wrote:

In the player’s handbook, six basic ability scores are given: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. These are indicative ability scores, from which all other attributes about a character – all of their capabilities – are derived from. These are the best indicators of exactly what a person can or cannot do, and often works that try to add to these often overly complicate the rule systems they attempt to enhance – they place scores where none are needed. That said, in addition to the six prime, or "indicative" ability scores in the player’s handbook, I use three "derivative" ability scores: Beauty, Luck, and Power. As "derivative" scores, these are not meant to replace or even really augment any game mechanics, but rather mostly for use in how a character is perceived by others: is she thought of as beautiful, powerful, or fated to survive?

Again, these are not meant to replace the ability scores found in the Player’s Handbook. Each of them is derivative – they rely on the indicative scores to be derived. These scores are meant more to be used for the DM and Players to better facilitate role playing rather than game mechanics. If there is no place for derivative ability scores in your game, then do not make use of them. Appearance is the most easily replaced by using charisma. Luck can generally be replaced by dexterity or wisdom. Power can most often be replaced by strength or intelligence. Unlike regular ability scores, these cannot be increased every four levels. They are strictly derivative from other ability scores, meaning that as those improve, these will as well.

To determine a derivative ability score, first a character must have all of their indicative ability scores rolled and assigned. Once the six primary ability scores are determined, derivative ability scores can be generated. Take two relevant ability modifiers from the six primary ability scores of your choice, add them together, and add ten. This will grant you a derivative ability score. Each ability modifier can only be used once to create derivative ability scores. In other words, once a primary ability modifier has been used in one derivative ability score, it can’t be used for another. After developing all three ability scores, you may increase the derivative scores – and only the derivative scores – from a pool of 1d3 points plus a number equal to their level adjustment (not racial HD). Each point spent on one derivative ability score is unavailable for the others, however. In general, this is similar to making a modified average of two preexisting scores, though there can be some significant differences in scores by average.

Beauty: This is the physical appearance a person has, the attractiveness that they exude before anyone interacts with them. Ultimately, physical beauty is not charisma. Someone can look rather unattractive, yet be quite persuasive: former President Abraham Lincoln, or a scarred and battered warlord, for example, are not beautiful persons. Others can be incredible sights to behold, but have no persuasive ability whatsoever: that Wench at the bar, or Paris Hilton, come to mind. Still, those who are truly charismatic do at least care for their physical cleanliness and a moderate amount of their appearance. To derive appearance, choose one of Strength (for well built muscular structure) or Dexterity (for swift, graceful movements) and one of Intelligence (for well-used lexicon, fashion knowledge, and a clever ‘look’) or Charisma (for all-around personality manifested in the flesh). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your appearance. Alternatively strictly use charisma along with strength or dexterity to show physical beauty characterized by muscular development or toning.

Power: Power is the ability to get what you want done, regardless of any difficulties such a problem presents. Usually the ability to handle problems – whether by overcoming through sheer force or enduring problems that would be far too grueling to others – comes with some measure of respect, but respect does not automatically come with authority or persuasiveness. Examples include boxer who persists through all challengers, or the wizard who holds the keys to the universe in his books. To derive a powerful person, whether magical or mundane, choose one of Strength (to brute-force your way through problems) or Constitution (to endure setbacks and still persist) and Intelligence (to derive logical solutions for the most difficult problems that arise) or Wisdom (to be aware of the right thing to do in any issue that comes up). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your power. Alternatively strictly use intelligence along with strength or constitution to show sheer mental ability backed up by physical brawn or endurance.

Luck: Luck – also often called Destiny – is all about the perception of some greater destiny involved. A persons luck is best measured in the broad flow of a person’s life: the general tendencies that happen to them. Whether accurate or not, some have even likened it to a person’s lifeline or lifespan (they're "wyrd") – when one’s time is up, it’s up, but not ever before. This, really, is what is described by this ability – the fact that regardless of anything else, a person continues to escape death... this time. "It’s not their fate", it’s often said, "to die here and now. Tomorrow, maybe, but not today." To derive how "lucky" a person seems, how much "destiny" they apparently have, choose one of Constitution (to fortunately survive that wound) or Dexterity (to miraculously be out of the way when that explosion goes off) and one of Wisdom (to clearly recognize danger when it arises, and the proper response) or Charisma (to be able to get what you need). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your Luck. Alternatively strictly use wisdom along with constitution or dexterity to show a clear understanding of one’s "fate" fortified by able body or quick reactions to work within it.

These ability scores are not necessary, but are presented here so as tools for GMs and players alike to be able to play how others perceive a character whether player character or not, in various ways. Further, this tool can be used in any campaign and any setting as a way to help role play and develop the world at large and the people within it.

The Derivative List: what the derivative scores use
Appearance, Beauty, Sexiness:
** Physical: Strength or Dexterity
** Mental: Intelligence or Charisma

Competence, Power, Reliability:
** Physical: Strength or Constitution
** Mental: Intelligence or Wisdom

Fate, Luck, Wyrd:
** Physical: Constitution or Dexterity
** Mental: Wisdom or Charisma

The Indicative List: what the indicative scores can be used for
Strength: Beauty or Power
Constitution: Power or Luck
Dexterity: Beauty or Luck
Intelligence: Beauty or Power
Wisdom: Power or Luck
Charisma: Beauty or Luck

The real reason for doing this is that a) you have an objective way of saying "that person looks nice/hideous" and b) to give role playing a base from which to spring. That really charismatic person: lucky or pretty? That bar wench might be pretty... but her life really isn't very lucky at all. Or "Man that wizard seems powerful, but that bard looks great, know what I'm sayin'?" Etc.

This does not refute the player's ability to define general qualifications about their appearance - someone with a low beauty score can still describe themselves as "tall, strong, and tanned with dark, wavy hair, and heterochromatic eyes" but it's going to come off differently than someone with a higher beauty score. It allows GMs to say "yeah, (s)he looks hot" without having to give every farmhand/barwench a powerful, persuasive personality. A wizard can look good! ... and be as persuasive as dirt.

It's a way of stepping outside GM fiat and giving crunch without making it really relevant to most adventuring plays. It separates the two.

And most importantly: it's completely optional!

It's not something I force on my players, but I've found that, over all, they like it. It allows the strange, decrepit sorcerer to still have a high charisma - people notice his power, not his beauty. It allows the rogue to seem really lucky - he's known for his Xanatos-Roulettes actually paying off, not how many ranks in bluff and sense motive he has. That type thing.

Anyhoo, YMMV, so enjoy, or not.

(Also, agreeing with the "different races/societies/cultures = different standards", with the caveat that I've seen some very beautiful fish or other creatures... I just wouldn't tend to take their word in an argument.)

It's an idea I create quite some time ago and an old post, but I figured I'd drop it here so that I could keep track of it and share it anew with all sorts of folks. :)


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They have an effect, especially luck.
Lotteries and other games of chance require a luck roll, opposed or against a DC chosen by the GM.
Political contests may be between 2 candidates, one with beauty, the other with power. In a kingdom, these may be the 2 sons of the king.

Lantern Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Following up on a spamming permission allowance. I have been pondering an adventure series based on the idea of the ancient serpentfolk returning - and no, I mean an even more epic one than Serpent's Skull.

I began putting it together when I realized all the necessary bits were there, and Paizo's setting even had a decent setup for it too. 'Return of the Annunaki' is the working title of this idea. It is definitely a full Adventure Path worth of scenarios, challenges, and ways to follow-up on the adventure series itself (epic campaigns).

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p9dz?Campaign-Arc-Idea-POSTSerpents-Skull-AP


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You totally need to use Eando Kline, his statblock is even in one of the paths.


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While waiting for a bus...
For normal game world natives, Detect evil only detects a creatures listed alignment. Celestials can detect evil intent, such as a Wivern preparing an ambush. Also a peasant who feels justified in trying to poison the king.


Pathfinder

This is kept me up tonight, apparently.

Among other thoughts that are harder to get down, precisely.

EDIT: to insert a line break


In this one, I drop down two!

Pathfinder

So, This has been keeping me up recently, over-all. Not just that thread, but all sorts of things on that AP, though I've only written that thread's stuff on the forums. (I'm also linking it because I'm proud of the ideas over all, though I'm unsatisfied with the level-check as-written at the end).

I also have been thinking of what it would take to actually assault and kill Mammon (and thus statting him up, sort of... I know, I know, but still, it's a thing I do). I call the basic form a "Breath of Mammon" (basically a evil/silver/adamantine/epic-v.-DR gestalt iron golem/mithril golem with the advanced, mighty, half-fiend templates (even though it doesn't normally work like that) [the half-fiendish +4 goes to STR/DEX/WIS and one +2 to CHA] and the "missing" template applied three times (granting displacement, evasion, and shadowed) and the agile and savage mythic templates.

It starts out a large 18 HD and is an constantly/automatically-etheral construct (with the Manifest ability of ghosts gaining the ghost-touch weapon property to its attacks when it does so, allowing it to hit normally including strength modifiers) of mammon with 'spikes' made of gems covering it's body (like armor spikes and giving it a claw attack), but each time it's destroyed, it drops a 67k gold-value mundane treasure from Erebus... and comes back later much with four additional HD, and a size increase (to a maximum of colossal and 30 HD the fourth time it's destroyed; it doesn't lose DEX for size increase, unlike normal); after that, it comes back as a 34 HD maximized/empowered/wish-augmented awakened creature with several cleric and oracle traits (with oracle spellcasting and appropriate domains and mysteries and curses), and three epic variants of the Fangs of Erebus favored weapon.

If all three are destroyed after their 'final form' so to speak, Mammon goes insensate for a while, and can be forced into a 'final' avatar during this time by expending 33 wishes and 825k gold with those wishes (the amount must be spent, regardless of where the wishes come from - either as casting components normally for such spells, or as additional costly components to augment spell-like abilities, and this can't come from Erebus' treasures) which brings him back with 38 HD, ten mythic tiers (Guardian path) and another application of the Advanced template, which. Alternatively, the insensate Argent Prince 'face' of Mammon can be destroyed during this time (a far more difficult task than it sounds, based on how huge it is - basically you're killing a super-continent of valuable gems and metals, which is hard to do 'in time', even with something like a 50,000 rust monsters). Upon the destruction of either or both, Mammon and Erebus itself are destroyed (causing lots of chaos and problems for hell at large, but especially the neighboring two realms) [Mammon eventually 'returns to normal', this avatar shrinking and becoming a normal Breath of Mammon when he'd normally awake]. Treasure floods the Hells (especially the neighboring layers), and also gets scattered to the multiverse at large.

A super-expensive ritual can bring Mammon back... once. It consumes his remains, and, based on the nature of the ritualist either brings the celestial back or the archdevil spirit. In either event, the new Mammon is no longer the old creature (either form) - at best it has vague memories of what happened, but feels no particular connection to them, and is mostly concerned with his 'debt' to his 'creator'. It is effectively a new creature with the old one's stats and personality, but none of the memories. Could cement his loyalty to Asmodeus forever, or could be an incredibly valuable 'recruit' for the forces of Team Good (and any deity to whom the New Mammon's debt would be legally transferred would effectively be indebted to the one who brought forth a new Mammon... and Mammon, regardless of where his allegiance ultimately lays will always look fondly upon the creature that allowed him to exist).

Pathfinder
Also, an interesting idea that hit me recently while working on the Breath of Mammon: the idea that outsiders might 'manifest' on the material plane differently than they do as written in the rules now. When they "come to the material plane", they are actually ethereal, as in automatically.

So, really, the ethereal becomes the 'spiritual' plane: it's where and how outsiders are and live. They can subsequently possess creatures (as the fiendish possession rules written about in 3.5 and reproduced and updated in the Council of Thieves AP; there was a 3.5 'channeling' variant for celestials that I find kind of dubious - I suggest sticking with the 'possession' general rules, even for celestials, but with slightly different abilities). Anyway, outsiders would only be 'physical' creatures relative to beings like ghosts, or on their own plane.

Also interesting with this, is that summoned or called outsiders actually can be corporeal... but summons only last very briefly, while called creatures are exceedingly rare (and usually don't stay very long anyway). This is one (out of many possible) neat explanation as to why the material isn't constantly overrun with these incredibly potent creatures who could, under normal circumstances, simply plane shift and win.

Anyway, it's unrefined, as you can likely tell by my rambling, but it's a nifty concept, to me.

I also have a kind of strange concept based on the 4E shadow-material-fey setup of the worlds at large, but with the ethereal, shadow, and fey each being a complete 'veil' across the world that links with (and overlaps in strange ways with) each other. Also, instead of being shadow-opposed-to-fey, I'm going to define it as shadow-opposed-to-spirit-world (like Rashemen or Tian-Xia's beliefs). And then, I have the concept of "deep planes", where the further you dig into a plane, the more different it behaves.

Spirit/Ethereal: Dream (nightmare/Leng where this touches shadow?)

Spirit/Shadow: Undead (unsure about this one; when 'spirit' was 'fey', this was 'unseelie'; nightmare/Leng where this touches Dream?)

Ethereal/Shadow: <no specific ideas for a place, but I've conceived a kind of 'tunnel'-like world where travel is super rapid; one alternate idea I came up with just now is the Time dimension>

Deep Ethereal: Astral --> the Inner Sphere --> The Outer Sphere

Deep Spiritual: Fey --> Irrian (from Eberron) --> Positive Energy Plane

Deep Shadow: <unknown, one possible idea is alternate material planes> --> Mabar (from Eberron) --> Negative Energy Plane

Anyway, those are some ramblings of a mind lacking sleep for the last several days.


Pathfinder

Oh, yeah, I also forgot this.

No, really, I'm probably thinking about the AP far too much. :)

(I also have a metric ton of more ideas that I'm not sharing for time or energy.)


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Land of the dead: a demi plane made of the overlap of the astral, ethereal, shadow, and the game world. Many dead cling there rather than go down that long dark tunnel. Some fight there way back to the land of the living only to become incorporeal undead. If their body exists, they can be solid undead, such as a vamp. or ghoul. The plane reproduces buildings and objects any pre-petitioners spent any time with. Such mirrored things facilitate haunts.


Neat!


Pathfinder

So, after having checked this thread, it turns out that I haven't posted this idea which has returned to me several times already, so... here we go!

Again referring to statting-out deities (I know, I know - that project with all the auto-spells looks abandoned, but it's not... not yet, anyway! - and yeah, I know, no one else likes it, but OH WELL! :D), I've been heavily reviewing the mythic playtest rules.

To that end, I've come up with what I hope is a pretty solid idea.

Taking a hard look at the 3.0 Deities and Demigods, I've decided to revise the abilities somewhat more than even my original idea.

First, deities no longer have up to 20 ranks, they have "up to" 5 (technically up to seven, but meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh). This is linked to mythic tiers in the same way that tiers are related to levels (must have double of one to get to the next).

So, for example, a 4th level creature, could have 2 mythic tiers, and 1 divine rank. There are "0 rank" creatures (quasi-deities), and these need no mythic tiers (or maybe only need one), but they cannot move past the "0 rank" category. Instead of gaining all the benefits (see below), they can choose exactly one.

Further, I'm currently thinking (to a semi-limited extent) that they basically gain all the abilities that aren't restricted by rank.

This means a deity automatically gains all of these: alter size, alter reality, banestrike, battlesense, call creatures, control creatures, divine blast, divine blessing, divine celerity, divine dodge, divine elemental master (usually one of air, earth, fire, or water), divine fast healing, divine glibness, divine inspiration, divine radiance, divine recall, divine shield, divine skill focus, divine weapon focus, divine weapon specialization, energy burst, extra sense enhancement, free move, frightful presence, grow creatures, footsore(?), gift of life/hand of death, increased damage reduction increased energy resistance, increased spell resistance, indomitable strength, instant counterspell (very useful with alter reality), irresistible blows <comes with weapon focus/improved critical>, irresistible performance, know death, know secrets, lay curse, lay quest, lifedrain, master crafter, mind of the beast, possess mortal, power of luck, power of nature, power of truth, see magic, speak with creatures, stride, sunder and disjoin, supreme initiative <comes with improved initiative>, undead qualities (this brings up some interesting questions), wave of {chaos? maybe change for all the alignments}, and wound enemy.

While this sounds like a lot, it's mostly just due to the formatting. These rules can (and will) easily be folded into each other for the most part. Those that can be taken multiple times will be - once per rank.

Things like arcane mastery and spontaneous wizard spells are only useful for arcane casters, but those and things like divine spell focus, divine sneak attack, divine spellcasting, divine rage, and divine bard/druid/monk/paladin/ranger/rogue.

Other things I'm debating (but probably granting) include automatic metamagic <how will I deal with metamagic feats?>, divine archery <with point blank shot and far shot as boons feats with this>, divine armor mastery <proficiency with light and medium armor automatically granted with this>, divine battle mastery <granting combat reflexes, dodge, combat expertise, mobility, spring attack, and whirlwind>.

Command Plants is probably going to be reserved for nature deities and might come with its own host of traits (like maybe replacing other abilities or traits, and maybe coming with the attendant druid/nature spells).

Some special notes involving the Alter Reality:

  • the way I'm thinking of structuring this is such that most of the abilities that create supernatural effects are based off of a "caster-level"-like idea; the divine ranks grant a 'caster level' equal to the square of itself possibly plus half the deity's hit dice and/or mythic tiers (or maybe plus the deity's hit dice and/or mythic tiers). This makes effective caster levels as follows: 1st rank (caster level 1+), 2nd rank (caster level 4+), 3rd rank (caster level 9+), 4th rank (caster level 16+), and 5th rank (caster level 25+).
  • what this means for alter reality is significant - deities truly are divine in that they can alter reality at will, but powerful-enough mages can equal or exceed the power of a god in this case... just not the breadth. A deity's advantage comes from the fact that they can literally create any effect that they can think of at will... a mortal mage must strive to gain that kind of power, but even when they can do less, they can, if potent enough, do it more powerfully (helping to explain the stereotypical mages' attitudes and arrogance in general). (related note: deities are awesome with a given weapon, as noted above, but a well-trained warrior can also equal or exceed them).
  • I'm (slowly) working on yet another project to literally list all of the 'generic' effects of magic, decoupled from their spells (I've actually done this for "transmutation effects" and "illusion effects", though both are strongly focused for my particular home game). If I manage to genericize the effects of spells strongly enough, it should be relatively easy to come up with what effects a deity wants to create with the Alter Reality salient ability.
  • alter reality, thus is something that can be added (relatively) easily, and still feel less "generic" than otherwise; add that to the fact that while other salient abilities are somewhat based on similar magical spells, I'm making them substantially more powerful than they otherwise would be. This again reduces the genericness/comparatively overpoweredness of alter reality (while still enabling a deity to do things that a deity "should" be able to do). Additionally, I'm granting a few special divine "effects" (based off of divine magic) that are more powerful than their most basic alter-reality effects, again helping explain the preferences/tendencies of divine magic v. arcane in a deity's granted abilities.

In any event, there's more to this (including noting what deity's get at rank 2 specifically, rank 3, and rank 4), but that's really enough for now, I think.


How about, Alter reality is an invitation. Normally, this power steps on so many other diety's toes, they can only use it in a world they created and they keep all other dieties out of. If your church resses a wizard a few times, and he casts Alter Reality, you get to handle the millions of details this changes, to your advantage.


I'm also thinking of making something that covers more class abilities, like "divine channel", "divine smite", or "divine assassinate" (some of these will be retooled elements from the above list).

Goth Guru wrote:
How about, Alter reality is an invitation. Normally, this power steps on so many other diety's toes, they can only use it in a world they created and they keep all other dieties out of. If your church resses a wizard a few times, and he casts Alter Reality, you get to handle the millions of details this changes, to your advantage.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "as an invitation" or the last two lines; your basic idea of a more-or-less political stalemate is interesting, though not exactly what I'm going for with the ability. That said, it'd make a great element for certain campaign worlds.

I'm not too sure how familiar you are with the 3.0 book Deities and Demigods, so if I'm telling you stuff you already know, I apologize.

As it stands in 3.0 Alter Reality is literally "create any effect equal to any ninth level spell or lower" plus a few nice abilities that allow lesser versions of other deity powers and a few other things. There are several limitations on this ability (mostly involving a "cool down timer"), but otherwise very little.

Many believe it's the best single Divine Salient Ability, and I agree, but I believe imposing some interesting limits and refinements to the ability itself and automatically granting it to all will make it less generic, after a fashion.

My design ideas usually boil down to "sure why not" - I'm all for "more power", as Tim the Tool-Man Taylor would say - but simultaneously, rather than use in-game elements to explain why something isn't as powerful as it could/should be, I often try and place interesting limits within the ability itself.

Let's look at a few hypothetical gods in a generic world.:

nothing but me in this post wrote:

Emperor Rex, Divine Ruler of the Sun Kingdom (descendant of the creator gods, naturally).

LN Young Human Aristocrat 1, Divine Rank 0.
He's chosen the "Divine Radiance" ability as his divine power.

Here's a guy who's practically human, but he has one ability (Divine Radiance) that can't really be directly equaled by mortal magic (in 3.0, it's basically a super-powerful sunbeam/searing light type effect). Being the umpteenth down-the-line descendant of the gods, he doesn't have too much going for him, but he's got a lingering bit of divine power, and it's 'doable' under this system. He doesn't get reality alterations, just the radiance.

He could just as easily be an elf, aasimar, tiefling, dwarf, or actual angel... it doesn't really matter. His class levels could go up, and he could be a fighter, paladin, sorcerer, wizard, or the like: none of that matters. He's just a tiny partial-god. Think the "divine" emperors of Rome or Japan. He could have mythic tiers, or not. The young template doesn't matter, it's just for fun. Really, the character is just a place holder. While Undead might have some issues overwhelming him, he's otherwise just a guy (more or less) with a really neat trick.

Let's increase the power a bit.

nothing but me in this post wrote:

The Watcher of Roads, The Eternal Wandering Child, The Least God of Travelers

NG young male lesser Dosojin Martial Artist Monk 4, Mythic Guardian 2, Divine Rank 1
He's got the divine monk salient ability.
"Lesser" means his hit dice, and thus CR, is somewhat reduced.

Now this guy is actually quite impressive... somewhat.

The young template (in this case) doesn't mean he's actually young, but represents the fact that he is both naive and innocent for his kind and lesser than they in some regards (the latter probably due to constant travel and straying away from just roads, which his kind are meant to be part of). But still, he's a god, and is worshiped by the people, and has phenomenal power... within his limited ability.

He can recreate literally any spell effect of ninth level or lower - sweet! But his caster level is only one... which means that a skilled enough mage could definitely defeat him in terms of direct power, and a martial artist with enough training could definitely best him on that front as well - heck, many creatures of all sorts could defeat him.

He can remove curses... but many will be too powerful for him.
He can heal... but only minor amounts.
He can use his power to directly harm... but this is mostly impressive to commoners.

This allows him to be a classic "minor god" type creature, especially as seen in Japanese stories, while still allowing him to potentially produce magnificent but ultimately small-scale divine effects.

nothing but me in this post wrote:

The Child Reaper, The Bed Catcher, Goltoh

NE male half-fiend dream bogeyman, mythic trickster 6, divine rank 3
He has divine sneak attack, divine stealth, and divine assassinate as an ability.

There are many boogeymen, but Goltoh, there, is their god - the absolute ruler of them all. Yes, yes, I know of the Eldest, this is a different world and hypothetical. This guy is literally the ultimate nightmare... to most creatures. Capable of virtually anything, Goltoh is the epitome of his kind.

He has a caster level of nine (or more, but I'm leaning more directly to the "square of rank" caster level).

He creates difficult curses at will that it takes powerful clerics to heal. He incites fear in anyone he daggum well pleases... but he's still a magical creature, and resistance to magic can still foil him. The right spell, if powerful enough, could still keep him at bay... for a short time. He could still be turned or warded against, but the fact that he's got moderately potent magic of any spell he wants at will means that he's going to have a lot of ways around most of what you'll come up with to stop him. But a powerful enough mage or priest can definitely overcome his power and even outright destroy him.

nothing but me in this post wrote:

MYSTERY, mistress of all Power

CG advanced eternal, half umbral dragon, missing storm giant cleric 20, mythic hierophant 10, divine rank 5
She has the divine channel, divine spellcasting, automatic metamagic, and command magic divine powers.

I'm totally making up most of these powers.

The vast, vast majority of creatures in all of existence will fear this being. She is powerful, nearly invincible, and has limitless 25th caster level magic. She almost definitely has an orange ioun stone (at least, and since Karzoug looks like he's got more than one embedded, I'm taking that as tacit approval/that it works like that), making her at minimum 26th caster level for every mortal spell possible. Plus she's got power even beyond that.

There is literally no normal creature that could touch her in power (aside from, say, a solar with prestige class levels that increase her casting, too), and mortal mages would just have to put up with what she wants done, unless they are at the true limit of mortal power... in which case she still wins more often than not. Divine spellcasting gives her access to higher-than-ninth level spells, while automatic metamagic means that all of her spells are always quickened (granting her free actions).

She could just as easily be a barbarian, bard, fighter, or rogue (or really any class) and the above statement would hold true.

And that's not really taking into account what I said before: that the gods get all divine spells that can be placed on a creature "always on" them - not as spells, but just as perks for being a god (though the rank 0 may or may not, I'm still thinking).

Anyway, that's kind of a broad overview of the idea I had before. Does that give a clearer picture of what I meant?


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Sorry. Alter Reality used to be a 9th level illusion spell or something.
I'm thinking of making a ritual which, if successful, lets your patron deity use their full powers at a place and time, in a contested world. I'm thinking failure might involve aging and loss of a con. point.

I'm not sure how you handle the deity of Elves and Drow both trying to use Alter Reality at the same time. Let me know if you playtest that.


Goth Guru wrote:
Sorry. Alter Reality used to be a 9th level illusion spell or something.

No problem! I think you might be thinking of Reality Revision, which was a 9th level psionic power. Either that, or it's an older edition (I never got involved in high level magics like 9th level spells with 2nd edition).

Goth Guru wrote:
I'm thinking of making a ritual which, if successful, lets your patron deity use their full powers at a place and time, in a contested world. I'm thinking failure might involve aging and loss of a con. point.

The ritual sounds like a neat thing, especially for contested worlds type thing.

Goth Guru wrote:
I'm not sure how you handle the deity of Elves and Drow both trying to use Alter Reality at the same time. Let me know if you playtest that.

To explain a bit more, using your example:

... a god of elves and a god of drow both use Alter Reality, and what happens?

Well, normally nothing - usually gods don't directly interfere by using a standard action to smite stuff, personally, and usually when they do, they're not directly meddling with each other, but usually with their servants. It's like asking what happens when a cleric of tyranny and a cleric of freedom use the Miracle at the same time - unless they're on the same battlefield engaging each other at the same moment, their miracles likely have nothing to do with each other.

But let's actually suppose they're facing off (a rare occurrence because it's likely that they'll lose more than they gained), it's a contest of effective power (as I noted above, effectively "caster level"):

a) one god is more powerful (has more ranks than the other), and thus will usually win.

  • Rank 1 v. Rank 2 is possible either way, but 2 has the slight advantage; Rank 1 v. Rank 3 is possible, but 3 has a huge advantage; Rank 1 v. Rank 4 is highly improbable anything other than 4 winning; Rank 1 v. Rank 5 is only going to end in Rank 1's failure.
  • Rank 2 v. Rank 3 is possible either way, but 3 has the advantage; Rank 2 v. Rank 4 is possible, but Rank 4 has a huge advantage; Rank 2 v. Rank 5 is only going to end in Rank 2's failure.
  • Rank 3 v. Rank 4 is possible either way, but Rank 4 has a distinct advantage; Rank 3 v. Rank 5 is possible, but improbable anything other than 5 wins.
  • Rank 4 v. Rank 5 is possible either way.

b) both gods are equally powerful, and thus it's either way (effectively a straight up d20 check).

So in other words, it's like any two creatures going up against each other - depending on the difference in power, it could be entirely one-sided, it could be possible but probably one-sided, or it could be a roughly equal playing field.

There major thing this streamlines is that gods are effectively unassailable by mortals of equal power, but are surmountable by mortals of superior personal power; meanwhile greater gods are basically the most powerful thing possible.

(Also, if you're curious, from my very rough calculations, you can fit a maximum of slightly-more-than 5,000 orange ioun stones floating around your head according to the basic rules, and I'd be surprised if you could successfully fit that many into your body, so... that's probably about the high end of a god's effective power.)

EDIT: found it. It's actually slightly-less-than 5,000. Here you go:

In my Word Document, the item I call The Godcrown wrote:
Based off the rough circumference of a circle (pie-r-squared) in inches and presuming that a prism takes up (very roughly) a one inch-by-one inch cube, attain 4,320 orange prism ioun stones (1,440 times three – one for each: arcane, divine, psionic) and set them together around <character>. This grants +1,440 (or, if they all work for all levels +4,320) to his caster/manifester levels. <snip>

EDIT: to remove pointless things that used archaic 3.X rules.


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On another topic, someone was stating the 3 aspects of the moon godess.
I posited that the new moon godess would get upset, and cast out of her the aspects dealing with Drow and eclipses. This divine energy would take on a life of it's own and become EbonDark, the demonic goddess of Drow and eclipses. In a contest like I described, she tried to create a permanent eclipse, but the other gods imprisoned her in the underdark.
As a result of her defeat(as you described) drows lose her gifts when exposed to sunlight. When an eclipse happens, even the most surface aclimated Drow find their powers waxing and have visions of EbonDark. Would that happen in your cosmos? Would her followers try to make and steal enough Ioun Stones to tip the balance in a new contest?
Would all the Ioun Stones have to be in the same orbit? Same distance? Same angle?


It could... it depends very much on the deities, though.

I don't have a specific world for this, so much as "here's a nifty idea for mechanics" in order to make new worlds and stat out/define gods.

Certainly something like what you describe would be possible.

One other thing I'd grant deities access to, is the power of the 3.0 Epic Spellcasting (but they don't automatically gain epic spells)... to a limited extent. These are specific, special effects that have, in this case, one-time uses. Gods can thus create effects beyond the pale of any magic, but it does require time, effort, and resources.

Because greater gods (4 or 5 ranks) would have access to the divine creation salient ability (from the 3.0 Deities and Demigods; I haven't talked about this, yet, here) they would be able to slowly gather enough power (presuming the D&D to PF exchange of 1 XP = 5 gp cost) to create such effects... but it would take time.

The thing with ioun stones is that the rules automatically allow you to have multiples, and they have no limit to how many you can have... the only stipulation in the old 3.5 game is that a given stone is 1-3 feet away, and circles your head.

To quote the current rules:

ioun stones wrote:
These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use. When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head.

Since the human head is a pretty normally defined size, I figured I'd just see what happened if I filled the entire volume of the area an ioun stone could be in with ioun stones, and, based off some rough calcualtions (complete with rounding - keep in mind, my calculations are very rough, and use hand-measurements of my own head among other potential error-causing elements) I got the rough (rounded down) guestimate of about 4,320 ioun stones. You know, when I look at that again, I'm not entirely sure whether I counted 1,440 spaces with a single solid circle (and thus arrived at 4,320 for three circles), or what. Certainly I could fit more than three circles around my head, presuming each was one-inch-deep (closer to seven, going at a quick and extremely rough "two finger widths = one inch" type insta-count on my part just now, if I completely cover my head).

In any event, in PF it's a bit more difficult to gain access to ioun stones (to a point), because the Wish spell doesn't explicitly let you create magic items anymore.

That said, gods likely can get access to these things and, with divine creation, money is literally infinite, given time.

Due to a clause in Alter Reality enabling a god to make any affect permanent instead of its normal duration (and includes 'temporary' bonuses from items and such), that means a god doesn't even need the "crown" on - once they put that many ioun stones on, they can make it permanent, remove the stones (for later, just in case it's ever dispelled) and have that huge amount of caster level increase constantly without the goofy looking two-foot-thick/one foot tall band of floating rocks in front of their face at all times.

Thus, in many contests of power the victor would either dispel a god's excess strength first or just have more excess strength than the other god.

Also, gods of rank 1 or 0 definitely wouldn't be able to do this - I'd have to look into whether gods of rank 2 or 3 could... I'm not sure.

In any event, it's still time-and-resource consuming... it does take time for gods to print valuable resources.

Anyway, I'll describe a bit more later.


Also, part of the idea, this time about divine auras: gods are a constant center of a combination hallow/consecrate (or unhallow/desecrate) effect with a radius that is 80 ft per rank, and for which they themselves count as a sacred structure. To become permanent, they must be within a general area covered by their aura for 24 hours. Any spell effect that can be made part of a (un)/hallow effect can be automatically activated or suppressed as a free action within this aura by them, so long as it's not created by a deity of equal or higher rank.

Rank 0 gods gain this at the normal 20ft radius.

Again, this feeds back into the fact that divine spellcasters have their spells because they reflect fundamental traits of the divine, rather than "just because", which is the current method of explanation.


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So I was up late at night and I've been posting on threads about classes all day. So I was like... Whats a solution to some of these things? So I had this idea for whole new classes.

Pathfinder

My Stuff is in Here!:

Enlightened: An Alternative Class to the oracle. Alternative classes don't get much love as far as I can see, but the oracle just doesn't fit right for me. So I was like... wait... Theres a thing for someone who does someones job but is a little differently. So instead we have the eastern Enlightened with a background related to being he closest to the stars, divinity, nirvana, and the final incarnation. All that jazz. No curse, just class features about sight, understanding, and a closeness to the universe. Revelations without being cursed, probably replacing curses with something new that actually looks fun. I think I could dig that.

Hero: I don't like the fighter, and on the fighter thread I saw people had an idea of what a fighter was in their head that was different than someone who hit stuff really well. So I thought what was the closest thing to what I wanted and what I should name it. So a fighter with 3 good saves who comes to the rescue is a hero right?

Champion: Becuase sometimes a paladin isn't LG. This is the man who represents ideals. He doesn't need a conduct, he represents the conduct. He is the living embodiment of the ideal of chaos, evil, liberation, and Tyranny. All that fun stuff. Super powers for being who you are and being awesome at it? That sounds like amazing fun.

Except I didn't put any mechanics in any of them or work on them... Yeah.


An enlightened should be weak on some mundane thing. If they can see spirits, they have trouble telling them from living people.


Goth Guru wrote:
An enlightened should be weak on some mundane thing. If they can see spirits, they have trouble telling them from living people.

Actually my idea only grew in my dreams and restless believe it or not. I don't think they should have to suffer a curse, but instead they pick a favored spell as a sort of revelation starting at first level, or alternatively choose a weapon to gain proficiency and slowly grow with. I want to give it the ability to replace revelations at levels of their choosing with a growth in spells or in that weapon. In this way they wouldn't have to curse debilitate themselves by being their own class, or have to pick up revelations they don't want becuase a mystery doesn't give them enough choices or they don't want to be dedicated and defined by their mystery, but instead by their blade and spells.

I would also like to see them have the strange option to grab a spell one level higher than they can cast at odd levels starting at 3, effectively giving them a simliar progression to prepared casters but without anywhere near the versatility.

Similairly, I want the champion in my head to choose who they smite. If they have 2 extremes they can pick to smite one of those extremes, and i would like to have the power to choose what sort of auras they gain based on their alignment and extremes. No one expected a smite neutral.

Give each one 4+ skillpoints and they become flexible and capable of being many things through skills, as opposed to the paladin and fighter who are mad and almost always dump their 2 skillpoints to 1.


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So, I haven't thought about this in a while, but it came up recently.

I've created a couple of gods in my time, and I thought I'd mention them here.

They are generally for/from...

3.X

... and thus are in that style and format.

Lo-Tomni-Adyre
(Lotadyr or Lo-Tadyr in some traditions)
Category: Greater [or Uber (rank 21+)]
Alignment: an undefined Good (probably Lawful, though)
Portfolio: autumn, bards, beasts (especially lions and feline beasts; all good beasts), cartography, dryads, endurance, forests, forest creatures, glyphs, images, invention, inspiration, justice, knowledge, literature, martyrdom, perseverance, rangers, royalty, scribes, suffering
Domains: Animal, Charm, Good, Healing, Knowledge, Law, Luck, Nobility, Plant, Protection, Retribution, Rune, Strength, Suffering, Travel, Trickery, War
Weapon: Dagger, Heavy Pick, Longsword, or Unarmed Strike

This is... more personal than others, and also the least creative. Effectively, before I first got introduced to the Forgotten Realms online, before I knew any of the deities, I took a bunch of quizzes ("What Character Are You?" type things). I didn't know the "appropriate" answers to most of the questions, and kept most of what they said in a document, eventually distilling all the gods I received into a singular deity (except for the rank/category).

I've oft thought it would be neat to prune it down a bit, but I've not really done so. Periodically, I've had a character worship this one, and oft thought of it as God represented in game (especially the wounded Tyr and Ilmater; and the "omniscient" Oghma that were added in). I added in Nobanion only after the fact because I learned that he was supposed to represent Aslan from Chronicles of Narnia... Who is, of course, supposed to represent God (and who wasn't a possibility in any of the quizes I've taken). I've thought of adding in Eldath and Lathander as well - two gods I consistently receive them as answers as well, although I have not.

Regardless of the origins of the deity and portfolios, I think the character itself, when divorced from said origins (going by alignment and portfolio alone) could make for an interesting basis for a campaign. Really nifty, actually.

In any event...

Vanue Hae
(the Gray Lord, the Silver Noble, the Bastard Lord, the Silver Shadow, the Shining Shadow, the Glint in Darkness, the Twin, the Gray Knight)
Category: Lesser {rank 7}
Alignment: Lawful Good (accepts any good, lawful neutral, or neutral as his worshipers)
Portfolio: bastards (especially of divinity or nobility), discovery, enlightened absolutism, experimentation, half-breeds (especially orc and elf blooded humans; or drow-, fiend-, or undead-blooded creatures), heroism (especially emotionally difficult or painful heroism), learning, libraries, orphans, ordered revolutions, research, righteous indignation, the unwanted and outcast
Domains: Darkness, Destruction, Domination, Drow, Good, Hatred, Law, Spider, Trickery, Tyranny, War; [Chaos, Evil]
Weapon: Pole-arm (variable)*, Whip-Dagger or Chain-and-Dagger*

The child of an avatar of Hextor and Lolth, rejected (and presumed destroyed) by both gods, and secreted away and kept and raised by Vecna, the Gray Lord is named for the slate-gray color of his skin and hair, as well as his preferences in clothing and the color of armament. His title "the twin" is a reference to his half-blooded parentage rather than to any sibling, although it is believed by a few scholars that he might be something like a chimera - perhaps even a twin conjoined with himself (though this is purely speculation - there is no evidence for this other than his title).

Although the child of avatars of two tremendously wicked deities and raised by a third, Vanue Hae has rejected his heritage of evil and forged a new path of virtue and honor, turning the "weakness" he inherited into new strength.

Born from a union that was a failed attempt at acquiring a new weapon both could use, it is unsure why Hextor or Lolth thought it was a good idea to sire a child, nor how they could possibly come to such an agreement, nor why a son (though it's suggested by some that Lolth felt this was the best way to breed a slave). The only thing that is known of event for sure is that it was a failure, both divine "parents" destroying the avatars that were part of the experiment (some rumors indicate the avatars might have fallen in love or begun to grow independent, though this seems unlikely). In any event, the avatars destroyed, both Hextor and Lolth believed their failed experiment was as well (in fact, the mere acknowledgement or mention of Vanue Hae's very existence is considered a major heresy in both churches, punishable by death). But Vecna had learned of their secret project, and was interested in seeing it through, despite the two originator's wishes. And so, through magical rites and powerful magic too horrid to contemplate, he took the near-born godling and sealed him into some unknown atrocity to finish the gestation. Some whisper that it was an Infernal (a scion of a god and fiend), while others say it was undead of some sort (an Atropal or Hunefer perhaps, or a simple vampire; or even the raised corpse of Lolth's avatar), and some say it was Vecna himself (though this last is unlikely). The horrid truth is unknown, though whatever it was (unless it was Vecna) evidence points to Vanue Hae's birth completely destroying it.

Vanue Hae was raised in secrecy by Vecna, kept in near-solitude all his days, and trained early in the arts of magic and soul-trading, but taking equally well to skill in battle (he always presumed from his unknown birth parents), which Vecna indulged to keep him placated, providing various traps and combat rooms. Surrounded by nothing but mindless constructs, magical creations, and undead; used to the abuse and lonliness; Vanue Hae didn't know better. He simply followed his "father's" wishes, allowing himself to be used as a magical battery or subject for many experiments into the nature, strengths, and weaknesses of divinity and half-breeds.

After he reached the age of majority, the godling Vanue Hae first began hearing the whispers. Never having spoken to another living soul (and Vecna was hardly "living"), he at first didn't understand: were these the voices of strange undead that felt pain like he did? Or was his father speaking to him about strange things - perhaps for some experiment? Was he hearing the voice of the Serpent? Was he losing his sanity?

Soon, though, he learned - these were the prayers of the abused, the forgotten, and the downtrodden - halfbreeds, bastards, and orphans like him. Not to him, specifically - no one even knew he existed -, but rather prayers aimed at anyone or anything that would listen. And listen Vanue Hae did, and learned... and grew indignant. And Vanue Hae performed his first act of rebellion - he kept a secret from the Master of All that is Secret... and did so successfully. He did not tell Vecna of the voices.

Still, Vanue Hae truly loved his "father" and sought to please him. Only after he was set in place to oversee his father's vast and terrible library, filled with undead, did Vanue Hae begin to learn and understand - the souls he'd so long traded and spirits were people. And he became disgusted... and confused.

Then, Vanue Hae performed his second act of rebellion: he crafted a spell that he kept hidden from his "father", lord, and god. And used it. All of the written knowledge, hidden secrets, and untold truths in Vecna's great Library of the Serpent, all that was tucked away within that dark citadel, and all that was known by all the undead within was suddenly known by Vanue Hae.

Soon thereafter, Vanue Hae had his first conversation with a living creature.

When his father next came to the fortress, he found the constructs destroyed, the undead missing, and the soul jars - previously used to power all sorts of things across the citidel, including those constructs - all shattered. Furious with his "son", and curious at the act of rage (supposing it was simply an especially brutal "training" session by "The Experiment", as Vecna secretly referred to him), Vecna was caught by surprise when he discovered Vanue Hae surrounded by living beings - those released from soul jars or previously undead, all raised from the dead.

Vanue Hae then performed his final act of rebellion. Declaring the rule of his adoptive father corrupt, he challenged him to a duel. Vecna - having learned almost all of Vanue Hae's deepest secrets - accepted, never planning on playing by the rules of the duel. He was unprepared for Vanue Hae's sudden and blistering assault, or the power that flooded the child from the faith of his new worshipers. Power enough to bind and seal the Maimed God. Although Vecna destroyed almost all the living - many in ways that Vanue Hae could not raise - Vanue Hae destroyed Vecna that day.

Taking all of the remaining living with him, Vanue Hae stole the library and hidden citadel - and three more with it - knowing that Vecna's destruction was temporary, and the next battle would not be so clean or easy.

Ever since, the Gray Lord has protected his ever-growing population within the Serpent's Library, conquering Vecna's hidden fortresses as he's come across them, and helping the abused and downtrodden wherever they are.

It is believed he has made exactly two attempts to contact his parents - one for each. It is unknown what has happened with those two attempts, but the fact that he is with neither, and the heresy within their churches - punishable by death - seems to indicate the revelation of his existence did not go over well.

Recently, several overtures from deities in Celestia - most notably Bahamut, Yondalla, and Heironeous have been made toward Vanue Hae, although the Gray Lord has kept his independence and his moving three-fold citadel on the material.


More on the weapons and more thoughts on Vanue Hae later! :)

EDIT: Weapons, and Weapons (links for later, to begin the discussion)


So, here's some more discussion place about Vanue Hae.

So, in reference to Vanue Hae's weaponry, his favorite weapons come from a couple of different places.

Now, to address this right off... I'm aware that weapon specializations don't come from genetics. Just to be clear. However, since divinity is, to some degree, based on perception, views, and the like, and 3.X has the tendency to have things like "racial languages" and spiritual empathy and echoes of deeds based on family bloodlines... I thought it was appropriate. Added to that is perhaps the most important reason: I wanted Vanue Hae to, in some way, feel like the child of Hextor and Lolth.

Taking the closest combination of Hextor's, Lolth's, and Vecna's favored weapons (Flail, Whip*, and Dagger, respectively), I combed through the various available weapons tables in Third Edition books and ultimately came across the - what I thought was perfect - Whip-Dagger in the old Arms and Equipment Guide. I immediately decided that this was the best weapon.

Of course, in that same guide, I shortly thereafter came across the Chain-and-Dagger, which I felt was appropriate as well... and in some ways more so because it kept the chain from Hextor's flail. So I was at something of an impasse.

Obviously those are niche weapons and, to be honest... I completely forgot about them. Later, when I was re-using Vanue Hae, I'd entirely forgotten many of his details, so I just randomly decided that his favored weapon was a Lucerne Hammer (which, interestingly, was also in the Arms and Equipment Guide, although I didn't have that on me at the time). Only later did I discover that I was confusing a Lucerne Hammer with a Bec-De-Corbin (a relatively easy mistake to make, I'd say...). Later, I came up with a mutable pole weapon with a head of mercury-and-ferroplasm-like substance - a kind of liquid silvery transitional tool that could be a lucerne, a bec, a guisarme, a glaive, or a combination thereof. It later became (in my head) like a gnome double-hammer or urgrosh-kind of double weapon (mostly pole, but with the hammer or other implements on the end).

With several pieces of solidly identified and "canonical" lore going in different direction... I'm at something of a loss with what to do with his weapon. This becomes especially difficult as Pathfinder no longer supports weapons like the Whip-Dagger or Chain-and-Dagger... the closest approximate now, I think, would be a Scorpion Whip. Added to that, I do tend to think the spiked chain would be a fairly appropriate "blend" of whip, dagger, and flail...

Part of my problem with sacrificing the "whip dagger" and "chain dagger" was that I'd had an interesting bit of narrative history in which Vanue Hae had held onto the weapons (or fragments thereof) of his parents - he used to switch out dagger-heads on the chain or whip (depending on which I used in the story; sometimes both). This element of the story was very personal, and added in the interesting touch. It also allowed him to claim Vecna's Afterthought dagger when the lich was destroyed as the "head" of his weapon... the last, missing piece. He would no longer trade the dagger heads.

Should I leave it as a combination of the lot? It would certainly give him a highly versatile favored weapon. Too versatile in many cases, and certainly not remotely balanced with other gods.

Which feeds into...

... his domains. He's a rank 7 god (the rank of Hextor's and Lolth's avatars; lower than Vecna, but big enough to credibly defeat the other god). But having the number of domains he does (taken pretty directly from Hextor (and Bane) and Lolth's lists) - eleven! - would mean that he's spent every single rank he owns on the "additional domain" salient ability (in the 3.X system). Obviously, he wouldn't work for Pathfinder at all in his current state. I don't actually know how he ended up with the Good domain. That might be a typo on my part.

Cutting it down to four is... hard.

Eliminate...
- Darkness? No, it fits incredibly well with his titles and theme
- Destruction? No, it goes so well with his "tragic good" divinity, and is also the primary method he destroyed Vecna the one time.
- Domination? No, it feeds directly into his portfolio
- Drow? Maybe, but that's kind of part of his schtick as well... especially if Eilistraee isn't in the picture.
- Good? As mentioned, I don't know how this got there.
- Hatred? No, this is just too great to have on a good deity, and fits his backstory and tragedy.
- Law? No, it's the only alignment domain he inherited that fits him.
- Spider? His alternate form (which I forgot to mention above) is that of an eight-limbed spider creature (taken from both Hextor and Lolth). Still, it's a possibility, I suppose.
- Trickery? No, he actually uses this often
- Tyranny? No, it fits his portfolio
- War? No, this seems to fit his "noble knight" persona and imagery too well, and has come up in our campaigns more than once.
- [Chaos and Evil]? Well, I've already kind of eliminated these as they're not his alignment at all.

Eliminating anything I even remotely feel "eh, I don't want to, buuuut..." about, nets us Darkness, Destruction, Domination, Hatred,Law, Trickery, Tyranny, War. That's still eight.

Going through a second round of elimination...
- Darkness: keep as stated; also because he uses darkness often to keep his secrets
- Destruction: keep as stated; also because he is kind the "inverse Vecna" research plus information -> secret of foe's destruction
- Domination: reasons are weak, and its covered under Tyranny, so I'll shed it despite my personal preference
- Hatred: keep as stated; also because he is god of the hated rather than filled with hatred for others
- Law: I'm really trying to let this one go... I don't want to, though I think I probably should, as he's trying to make a "clean break" from his parents, and, despite matching this, I think this is the weakest of his matches, partially because of his Three Acts of Rebellion, partially because his alignment isn't as "solid" as others' are.
- Trickery: keep as stated; also because of his Three Acts of Rebellion
- Tyranny: keep as stated; also because only by maintaining absolute authority is he capable of keeping the fortresses secret and safe
- War: keep as stated; also because he's become a pretty big figure among certain war-torn regions of quasi-home brew worlds we've created


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cant his destruction role subsume his war role? how about domination subsuming tyranny.


+5 Toaster wrote:
cant his destruction role subsume his war role? how about domination subsuming tyranny.

Excellent points!

First, I'm sorry, I never actually posted the new list:
Darkness, Destruction, Hatred, Trickery, Tyranny, War

Pairing it down to six! Still not PF-compatible, but we're getting there.

So, thinking about it, yes, Domination or Tyranny could subsume either way, but, while I like domination better ('cause mind magic, yo), I actually think that Tyranny fits him better. It's both more evocative and fits his themes.

Second, you have a point that Destruction and War might be able to subsume each other. However having Destruction without the War doesn't seem like it would fit the image of nobility, nights, and courtly... things as it were, whereas war allows for that sort of thing. At least to me. I might be able to be swayed, but I'd need to see more arguments along those lines.

Anyway, I'm a bit busy with real life things, but I'm still interested in more feedback. Thanks, +5 Toaster!


war means destruction or defeat, whereas destruction is a more clearly defined result. hmmm, I guess you could define war as destruction with purpose. That would fit with the lore provided. I never got the impression that he valued destruction on it's own merits from your description.


That... makes a lot of sense, really.

The original idea behind him holding Destruction was more along the lines of destroying things in spite of himself. The other question is that if his destructive aspects come from being destructive himself or coming into where destruction already is.

I could actually explain it away as simply losing his power which was protected under Vecna (for is own purposes), but after he was destroyed, it faded slightly.

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