More Fiends! What do you Still Want to See?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Perhaps I've just been overlooking them in the new products, but I think the setting is really missing a seductive sort of devil since Succubi are demons now. We have contract devils but they don't always fill the same role...


A Devils revisited would be good, but would rather have it as a normal entry in the revisited line than a new line of books. I do like Mikaze's idea of, instead of necessarily having 10 entries for each type of devil, divide them into their relative "functions" within devil hierarchy: familiars tasked with corrupting mortals; cannon fodder; elite soldiers; tempters; etc. Obviously some chapters would probably focus on just one type, but others would cover a wider variety. Makes more sense, especially with devils and daemons, as they are not independent creatures, but rather cogs in the machine of Hell and to a much less extent Abbadon.

Would have to say, to bring up an earlier point mentioned in this thread, it would be a bit "gilding the lily" if we get devils revisited before an aberrations and fey book

OH...and still would want Cults of the Damned first :P


Succubi have always been demons in this game, and the game this was based on.


zagnabbit wrote:

I miss Planewalker, it had some neat little locations tucked away on the subpages.

What are you talking about? Planewalker.com is still there.

The Exchange

I'd like a book with stat blocks and current plots of the nascent demon lords, malebranche, and harbingers. Not all of the harbingers obviously but definitely the most interesting. Give them all a two page spread like Treerazor got, with some bullet points of area of intrigue, names and locations of cults, sample end goals for players to thwart. They don't need paragraphs explaining, just names, locations, and recommended levels. Just a book of stat blocks would be huge for me.

*EDIT* I do realize that the stat blocks are probably the hardest thing to develop, especially CR20-25 unique monsters, and that a monster that powerful would be out of the power range for the majority of the AP's but a guy can hope.

Contributor

Again, lots and lots of super cool ideas here folks, and some serious food for thought that we'll definitely be chewing on during some upcoming discussions. Keep the ideas, the "do wants," and the "don't needs" coming. I'm keeping a close eye on all of these posts.

(And if a few cases, the proper authorities have been notified. Sick, twisted buncha...)


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Devil seducer would be a good idea, especially if it would not be copy-paste of succubi. It could also be place to play with misogynistic attitude of Asmodeus and his cronies.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

deuxhero wrote:

Matador, so I can have a reliable source of TPKing...

err...

Lord Gadigan wrote:
I'd like to see the presence of more alien fiends, information about some of the less-Earth-like parts of the planes they dwell in, and also information on more technologically-advanced fiends. The material plane has starships, worlds of robots, cybernetics, and all sorts of technology beyond what is seen on Golarion. I'd like to see other-planar beings taking advantage of this in some way: skyscrapers and junkyards in Dis, bioweapon factories in Abaddon, demons with heavy ballistic weaponry, etc. At present, I really only get a sense...
Given Cacodaemon is in Bestiary 2, Cyberdemon?

Two interesting things about the Cacodaemon...

1) Cacodemon (and thus cacodaemon) is from real world mythology, whereas "cyberdemon" is not. Therefore, no cyberdemon in the future of Pathifnder. (Also... we don't have rules for cybernetics yet anyway, really...)

2) Doom's cacodemon was more or less stolen, design-wise, from the head of the monster on the cover of the 1st edition Manual of the Planes anyway, so it's not like we're taking a monster from Doom as much as we are reclaiming a monster Doom "borrowed."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Gorbacz wrote:
The Minis Maniac wrote:
Just a clarification, there are no Obyriths in Pathfinder as that is a WOTC intellectual property. However Pathfinder has Qlippoth which would be very comparable to Obyrith.

Now, here comes a funny story.

Once upon a time, there was a book called "Book of Fiends" from Green Ronin. It featured a proto-demon race called qlippoth, written by some guy called Erick Mona.

Few years later, a company that once used to be the industry leader in pen and paper RPGs (Sorcerers by the Shore or something like that) hired Erick to write a book about denizens of Abyss, called "Fiendish Codex I". The Sorcerers told Erick "we want a proto-demon race there, but please don't call them qlippoth - we want you to use a made-up name 'cause we can copyright that and further our plan of dominating the universe". Erick sighed, nodded and so D&D obyriths were born.

More years passed, and Erick found himself working on some new campaign setting called Roadsearcher or whatanot. Unable to reference the obyriths for copyright reasons, he gleefully vindicated qlippoth, thus completing the circle.

That is a funny story... because it's facts are kind of "funny."

Erik and I both helped write "Fiendish Codex I," but Erik wasn't the one who invented obyriths—that was 100% me. That said, I was incredibly inspired by the work Erik did with qlippoth in "Armies of the Abyss" ("Book of Fiends was't out yet, I don't think...), and they were a huge influence on the obyrith design I did for Fiendish Codex I.

When WotC came to Erik and I to help write that book, they pretty much told us that we could do anything we wanted with the book. They knew we knew our stuff about demons and the abyss, and we were pretty much allowed to whatever—the inclusion of obyriths as a WotC-version of qlippoth was 100% me. I'm not sure everyone at WotC even knew about the qlippoth—I'm not sure how much attention they paid to 3rd-party publications at that point in the game, honestly.

So... there was no WotC plan to "dominate the universe" by inventing a new race of monsters they can copyright and replace qlippoth with. And Erik didn't sigh. Nor does he use a "c" in spelling his name.

In any case... once Pathfinder and Golarion came around... I was the one that made sure we had qlippoth in the game. Furthermore... I was the one that in updating them in Bestiary 2, made sure that the design for them from Green Ronin "mutated" slightly so that they work much better as "alternatively named obyriths" and vice versa—we can't reference obyriths in print in Pathifnder, but if you drop one into your Golarion/Pathifnder game, they've got a perfect pre-built place for them as qlippoth.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Minis Maniac wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

I thought it was James Jacobs that made the Obyriths for WotC.

I do wish JJ still had the rights to the Sibriex, 'cause damn.

Oh James did make the Obyriths while he was on Contract with WOTC doing the fiendish Codex series. Worst of all for James is he not only lost rights to use the Obyriths but also his creation Obox-ob the demon lord of vermin which was his main baddy from his homebrew setting. So unfortunately as a result there are no Obyriths in Pathfinder as they are owned by WOTC.

It also sucked getting a nice big paycheck for that work.

I am proud of what I did with obyriths in D&D, but as I just said, the same work I'm doing on qlippoth now is the same I'd be doing with obyriths if we could still use them. And all complicated OGL/copyright/SRD questions aside... I'd say that they were the exact same class of monster. Think of it this way:

Demon is to Tanar'ri just as Devil is to Baatezu just as Daemon is to Yugoloth just as Qlippoth is to Obyrith.

As for Obox-ob... yeah, he was the main bad-guy deity from my homebrew... but everything he did is now done by Rovagug in Golarion (who was also a bad guy deity from my homebrew).

And since I got the name "Obox-ob" from page 35 of the 1st Edition D&D's Monster Manual II's list of "other demon lords" (and since, as far as I can tell, "obox-ob" is a name entirely made up by Gary Gygax)... ethically the only choice I really had to get my Obox-ob work into print was in an official D&D product anyway... so even if I hadn't sold Obox-ob to Wizards of the Coast, I would have had to switch him over to Rovagug in Golarion... but in that case, no one but me and my group would really know about my version of Obox-ob. He never would have seen print.

So really... if you're a fan of Obox-ob... there's nothing unfortunate at all about him being owned by WotC... because if that hadn't happen, you likely would never have heard of the name in the first place.


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K.G The Mathlete wrote:

I'd like a book with stat blocks and current plots of the nascent demon lords, malebranche, and harbingers. Not all of the harbingers obviously but definitely the most interesting. Give them all a two page spread like Treerazor got, with some bullet points of area of intrigue, names and locations of cults, sample end goals for players to thwart. They don't need paragraphs explaining, just names, locations, and recommended levels. Just a book of stat blocks would be huge for me.

*EDIT* I do realize that the stat blocks are probably the hardest thing to develop, especially CR20-25 unique monsters, and that a monster that powerful would be out of the power range for the majority of the AP's but a guy can hope.

Every time someone misspells my name, I eat a live puppy and spit the chewed up bones at an orphanage. I don't just shave trees. I tear them down the ground. Just sayin'.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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And my two cents...

Demons are about the flesh. Devils are about the mind.

As such, while devils can certainly use seduction to trick mortals... they're not really as into it as demons are. And by maintaining that distinction, we help to further make the distinction between two fiendish races that are arguably too close thematically in a lot of ways as it stands.

In any event... if we DID do a seducer devil... I'd argue to make it a male. If only to fit Hell's misogyny and to make that creature distinct from the succubus.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Clearly defined rules for signing contracts with Devils. Essentially: What you can get, what you need to do, what happens if you reneg.

An "NPC Gallery" of Demons, Devils and Daemons, with Truenames and unique abilities for the Planar Binder/Ally caster on the go. Complete with unique personality traits.

I also would like to +1 cults.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Clearly defined rules for signing contracts with Devils. Essentially: What you can get, what you need to do, what happens if you reneg.

We've actually got rules for that—see the contract devil in Bestiary 3. That said... they could certainly be expanded upon!


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James Jacobs wrote:

And my two cents...

Demons are about the flesh. Devils are about the mind.

As such, while devils can certainly use seduction to trick mortals... they're not really as into it as demons are. And by maintaining that distinction, we help to further make the distinction between two fiendish races that are arguably too close thematically in a lot of ways as it stands.

Seduction is excellent way to get control over someone's mind, to shape his spirit. Especially as a long-term investment. Maybe a devil who is seducing mortals into toxic relationship slowly molding the subject into desired mental state.

Coming into a bit adult territory: a female (or androgynous) devil that plays her apparent submissiveness to rouse dominating streak in mortal, to inspire possessiveness, to breed hateful arrogance, to turn mortal lover into abusive control freak.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks James, I think the Contract Devil is brilliant, I'd love to see an expansion of those rules.

Also while signing contracts with devils makes for good gameplay (risks vs rewards are defined fairly clearly), I'd like to see more interactions with Demons and Daemons.

Rules for gambling with demons: what are the stakes, what can you win, what happens if you lose?

Rules for making sacrifices to Daemons: Sacrificing X-HD in a ritual grants what boons, what happens when you fail to deliver the promised sacrifice.

Contributor

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Drejk wrote:
Devil seducer would be a good idea, especially if it would not be copy-paste of succubi. It could also be place to play with misogynistic attitude of Asmodeus and his cronies.

I'd argue that we do have a seducer devil: the contract devil.

First of all, that was my intention with these devils' names, "phistophilus" a portmanteau of the Greek philos (love, affection, loved, beloved, dear, friend) and the core of the name Me-phisto-pheles, a name which in turn comes from a combination of the Hebrew for "destroyer" and "liar" - though "phisto" itself is meaningless, just sounding cool and diabolical. Roll all that together into an etymological mash-up and you get an idea of what these guys are all about.

In action, beyond their clerical duties (like, literal paper-pushing), contract devils are all about giving mortals what they want, whatever it might be. It's the whole genie granting wishes schtick--and ultimately, what is more seductive than someone who can grant you whatever you want, whatever it might be, regardless of whether or not it's actually good for you? You want wealth, sign on the dotted line and you've got it. You want a sexy slave? He can make that happen either through liberal use of the spell wish or by binding an erinyes or other shape changing devil to your service of the rest of your life. You want whatever else, contract devils are masters of bending rules and manipulating reality to get you exactly what you say you want--though maybe not what you intend. The doors are wide open with these guys.

Think about it this way. Say you're an actor trying to break into film. Getting in good with a hot movie star has a lot of appeal, but ultimately, it's probably an agent/producer/director who you'd probably never recognize with the real influence to make you a star. That's the world contract devils get their power from, they're above physically getting on their hands and knees to give you what you want--they've got people for that, and they can make their people your people. Sign on the dotted line, baby, and I'll make ya a star.

To bring this full circle, this is exactly what it sounds like folks are talking about with a "D______ Revisited"-style book--insights into how certain fiendish breeds work and do evil in their own unique ways. There's two pages on contract devils in Bestiary 3, but still that's hardly enough to get the full extent and possibilities of of their modus operandi across. So, would such an idea be worth committing a whole book to, or would you all rather see something else?


I'd see the contract devil as more of a tempter than seducer - when it comes to actually sexual seduction I would not call the pimp seducer - he might tempt and lure the target but its his fast talk and manipulation that is responsible for success, not his charm and sexual appeal.

It is true that that way of work - dominating ranking devil offering submissive devil of lower rank for services - is representing the hellish modus operandi quite close.

Grand Lodge

Okay, it's a bit different from the other suggestions & likes/wants/needs we've been posting but, since you're asking....

What are the chances that, no matter what book (or books) you guys start working on for 2013/2014, you get some NEW ART for Gelugons, Glabrezu, Hamatula, Nalfeshnee, Erinyes, Succubi, Pit Fiends and Balors?! (And yeah, I guess the Qlippoth & Daemons, too.)

How friggen AWESOME is it that the Mariliths in the Monster Manual, FC I: Hordes of the Abyss and Bestiary 1 are three different Maris?!!!

And the illustrations of Imps and Erinyes in the FC 2 are THE BOMB.

With all this design talk -- please give a bit of a makeover for the art!

(After 35 years can't we finally get a Type IV Demon that actually looks cool?)


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I know I already asked this in the Ask James Jacobs thread. But I like the idea of an "Elder Evils" like campaign setting book. Where you detail major ancient evils whether fiend or otherwise CR 18 -23or25 campaign BBEG, with details on their activities in Golarion and a chapter about setting a campaign around them. And nothing says you Can't later use them in APs anyway. What do you guys think?

Contributor

W E Ray wrote:
What are the chances that, no matter what book (or books) you guys start working on for 2013/2014, you get some NEW ART for Gelugons, Glabrezu, Hamatula, Nalfeshnee, Erinyes, Succubi, Pit Fiends and Balors?! (And yeah, I guess the Qlippoth & Daemons, too.)

While we don't have any intention of doing a major revision to what any of our monsters look like - that's really the kind of overhaul we'd save for a new edition - you can expect some refinements to a few classic fiends in the upcoming Bestiary Box. Such revisions will serve as our reference pieces for new art from there on out.

And yeah, I think you'll be excited to see a leaner, meaner gelugon. (I totally was!)

Contributor

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The Minis Maniac wrote:
I know I already asked this in the Ask James Jacobs thread. But I like the idea of an "Elder Evils" like campaign setting book. Where you detail major ancient evils whether fiend or otherwise CR 18 -23or25 campaign BBEG, with details on their activities in Golarion and a chapter about setting a campaign around them. And nothing says you Can't later use them in APs anyway. What do you guys think?

I'm keen on it, but we'd need to come to a consensus internally here at Paizo on how we're going to present CR 25< threats, and that's still a ways out. I'd hate to do a book in the campaign setting line that does thinks way A then come out with some innovative new high-level system in the hardcover line that invalidates that or presents awesome options that weren't used. So it's kind of a sticky wicket.

But even if that means that this idea isn't perfect for a book right now, that doesn't mean that we aren't hard at work on a solution to make it a great book down the road here. So, in short, it's a neat idea and I dig it, but we've got to put the horse before the cart.

Additionally, if you ever have ideas for products we should do, totally pitch them in the General Discussion, Campaign Setting, or other product line specific message boards. We rarely go to the off-topic boards for feedback and suggestions for upcoming products, and all of us would love hear what you have in mind. You never know who on our staff might champion your genius idea! :)

Contributor

Drejk wrote:
I'd see the contract devil as more of a tempter than seducer - when it comes to actually sexual seduction I would not call the pimp seducer - he might tempt and lure the target but its his fast talk and manipulation that is responsible for success, not his charm and sexual appeal.

Totally true. Temptation and seduction are pretty similar words, and while I think contract devils definitely have the potential to prey upon mortal lusts, they're going to take a more indirect route. Manipulating mortal lusts is just a card in their deck of tricks, just as useful as manipulating greed, vanity, ambitions, etc.

Personally I view seduction as personal, private, intimate - largely a one-on-one deal. But few potent devils - with immortal lifespans, genius-level intellects, and the pride of paragons of the planes - are going to be interested in debasing themselves to damn a single mortal soul. For a larger power play, potentially they would - even a full human lifespan of service isn't terribly long for them. The more powerful the devil, the greater in scope its schemes, and the less likely it's going to want to spend all of its energies bringing down one soul (unless it can bring down many more with it; see the conclusion of Curse of the Crimson Throne for an example of exactly this in play).


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
The Minis Maniac wrote:
I know I already asked this in the Ask James Jacobs thread. But I like the idea of an "Elder Evils" like campaign setting book. Where you detail major ancient evils whether fiend or otherwise CR 18 -23or25 campaign BBEG, with details on their activities in Golarion and a chapter about setting a campaign around them. And nothing says you Can't later use them in APs anyway. What do you guys think?

I'm keen on it, but we'd need to come to a consensus internally here at Paizo on how we're going to present CR 25< threats, and that's still a ways out. I'd hate to do a book in the campaign setting line that does thinks way A then come out with some innovative new high-level system in the hardcover line that invalidates that or presents awesome options that weren't used. So it's kind of a sticky wicket.

But even if that means that this idea isn't perfect for a book right now, that doesn't mean that we aren't hard at work on a solution to make it a great book down the road here. So, in short, it's a neat idea and I dig it, but we've got to put the horse before the cart.

Additionally, if you ever have ideas for products we should do, totally pitch them in the General Discussion, Campaign Setting, or other product line specific message boards. We rarely go to the off-topic boards for feedback and suggestions for upcoming products, and all of us would love hear what you have in mind. You never know who on our staff might champion your genius idea! :)

Well for now you could do a world threats with CR 15-20 campaign BBEG then later do a higher level version. That is one BBEG per chapter. How does that sound? And again you could still use those threats in AP line down the road. You paizo staffers could put some of your home campaign super villains in there as well as other BBEG that didn't make the AP cut.


WELL..... I hope you still come by to read this.

I'd like a book describing more on the Rakshasa

Sovereign Court Contributor

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My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?

I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.

*Not Brian Blessed.


Rules for making them: Racial ability modifiers, things they get with racial HDs, things they would still get with class levels, improvements and new stuff they get when you advance them in level/HD.

Something like Necromantic Affinity, so they can be healed by evil Clerics if the need arise.


Drejk wrote:
Coming into a bit adult territory: a female (or androgynous) devil that plays her apparent submissiveness to rouse dominating streak in mortal, to inspire possessiveness, to breed hateful arrogance, to turn mortal lover into abusive control freak.

I think that would actually make an interesting take on the "seducer" role. It also certainly fits with the themes already established in Book of the Damned 1.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd like to know a bit more about the worshippers of demons, specifically. I mean, they're mentioned a lot, especially the Gorilla Kings and Lamashtu's worshippers, etc. But i mean i kind of want to see what place the cults of, say, Pazuzu, Nocticula, and other less mentioned demon lords have to do in Golarion.

Contributor

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The Drunken Dragon wrote:
I'd like to know a bit more about the worshippers of demons, specifically. I mean, they're mentioned a lot, especially the Gorilla Kings and Lamashtu's worshippers, etc. But i mean i kind of want to see what place the cults of, say, Pazuzu, Nocticula, and other less mentioned demon lords have to do in Golarion.

Say we went the cults route. Would you want to see entries be something more like my Mammon article in Pathfinder #30, something more like Sean's gods articles we do every few AP volumes, or something else completely?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It may just be that I'm running Legacy of Fire right now and noodling an epilogue adventure down the line, but I'd really dig a campaign setting book on genies and their antithesis, the divs.


Jeff Erwin wrote:

My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?

I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.

*Not Brian Blessed.

Brian Blessed would make a great Agathion!

"GORDON'S ALIVE?!"

The idea that came to me when I was looking through today's download - Dawn Of The Scarlet Sun:

Spoiler:
When I saw the graphic of the BBEG(al) of the adventure wielding a fiery sword and read in her attack routine a flame blade (which I was a bit disappointed to learn, she casts with UMD from a wand of flame blade) I thought it would be great to see more customization options for fiends - adding variants, easy rules for replacing particular abilities with different ones, feats expanding on certain abilities. For example succubus's improved profane gift could grant the recipient spell-like or supernatural ability in addition to ability score bonus.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Say we went the cults route. Would you want to see entries be something more like my Mammon article in Pathfinder #30, something more like Sean's gods articles we do every few AP volumes, or something else completely?

I've purchased Adventure Path books I'll likely not get to play for a long long time, (My group progresses slowly) just so I could read the in-depth articles featured therein of Gods, Cities, and all the little trivia mixed in.

I'd say it's a safe decision to go that route, but I'm just one customer.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Let me be rather unoriginal an add in my excitement at the idea of something like a Cults of the Damned. The AP articles are always excellent reads so something like that certainly wouldn't go wrong.


Demodands! A mortal outsider race created neither by planar forces nor by deities is unique and fascinating. Plus there are only three of them in the bestiary.


Demodands somehow do not appeal to me in the way Qlippoths, Kytons, Rakshasa, Daemons, Demons and Devils... They fall on a similar level of Divs and Onis (which is not much as they are behind most of Outsider races).

Dark Archive

D______ Revisited, yes please! I was contemplating the possibility of such a book the other day. Basically give the classic daemons, demons, and devils the same detail and lore you've given all monsters in the Revisited line.

Cults of the Damned, yes please! Everything related to the worship of daemons, demons, and devils as well as details on the mortal agents doing the fiends' dirty work on Golarion, their modus operandi. Additional nifty game mechanics for GMs to give their villains. Examples of specific cults, their ringleaders, their agendas, and their fiendish allies would be nice as well.

On the flipside, I'd also like to know more about those who fight against the fiends. I'm not really thinking in terms of player-friendly material, but stuff on potential allies (such as the demonologist Kutholiam Vuere in Kenabres), repositories of infernal knowledge, that sort of stuff.

D______ Gallery, yes please! As I see it, such a book shouldn't be about the big boys. It should be a gallery of named daemons, demons, and devils we can insert into our games. 2-3 pages per fiendish NPC. Possibly noteworthy mortals somehow involved with fiends, for good or evil.

Finally I'd like some expansion on some of the names that have been dropped in the various Books of the Damned. Something detailing cities and other named locations and possibly some of the more powerful factions (such as the whore queens) that haven't been dealt with a lot.


Lots of great ideas flowing through this thread, but if I could wave a magic wand and get my personal preferences, they'd be these:

1) Bk of the Damned IV: The Qlippoth. I want this far, far more than anything else suggested up to this point. And there have been many fine suggestions!

2) Bk of the Damned V+: Reaching diminishing returns w/ this series as it's now formatted, and in terms of classic fiend popularity, I love the idea of thematically grouping 2-3 other groups into 1 book. In no particular order, Divs (under appreciated IMO; they were fantastic in Legacy of Fire), Rakshasa, Oni.

3) Not part of this thread per se, but I think you need to get something like Bk of the Blessed for Celestials out before you keep digging in the Fiend well, if you know what I mean. The same goes for the Proteans, Axiomites and Inevitables.

4) More to the topic at hand; I like things like Cults of the Damned, and books of interesting NPCs like Rival Guide.

I'd put a vote in for epic-level rules and stats, but I've given up on that over the years, as it appears to be the can who gets eternally kicked down the road. Sadly.

Anyway, I appreciate that you're soliciting fan input.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

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+1 to D______ Revisitied. All of them.

Qlippoth Revisited doesn't really make much sense, since they're pretty new, but a similar book would be awesome. I'm having trouble thinking of a title that doesn't sound Lovecraftian (Eldritch Horrors? Elder Horrors? Ancient Abominations?)

Cults of the Damned should be first on the list though; that's where the rubber will hit the road in terms of beginning adventures. You don't want to have the PCs running into the Big Ds right off the bat.

Perhaps some sort of targeted bestiary would be appropriate ... Bestiary of the Damned? Including lots of cool templates like "Demonic Animal," "Evil Incarnate," and the like?

Or ... how about a variation on haunts - daemonic/demonic/infernal locations? Sites of Evil, perhaps? It would be like an environmental sourcebook for unhallowed, tainted, and otherwise unsavory locations. Not sure it warrants its own book, but if Cults of the Damned were a 64-pager, it would probably make an awesome chapter.


gbonehead wrote:
I'm having trouble thinking of a title that doesn't sound Lovecraftian (Eldritch Horrors? Elder Horrors? Ancient Abominations?)

Why's that a bad thing? >=)

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Nothing bad with a Lovecraftian name for Lovecraftian horrors, but the qlippoth aren't Lovecraftian.

Now, I'm all for a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but that should be entirely different from a qlippoth sourcebook.

Sovereign Court Contributor

gbonehead wrote:

Nothing bad with a Lovecraftian name for Lovecraftian horrors, but the qlippoth aren't Lovecraftian.

Now, I'm all for a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but that should be entirely different from a qlippoth sourcebook.

Qlippoth or Qliphoth are from Kabala; the word means "husks" (as in a discarded shell, as from a nut or the chaff of wheat) - they are the obstacles to comprehending the Sephiroth.

Perhaps something could be made of that. Though the idea that they shed their forms as part of continual evolution is kinda inspiring, like insects, or reptiles.


gbonehead wrote:

Nothing bad with a Lovecraftian name for Lovecraftian horrors, but the qlippoth aren't Lovecraftian.

Now, I'm all for a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but that should be entirely different from a qlippoth sourcebook.

I'm sorry, but the qlippoth are pretty obviously at least partly inspired by Lovecraft. Heck, one former qlippoth turned demon is named Dagon! (The idea of Dagon as a demon lord predates the invention of the qlippoth, though.)


lordzack wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Nothing bad with a Lovecraftian name for Lovecraftian horrors, but the qlippoth aren't Lovecraftian.

Now, I'm all for a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but that should be entirely different from a qlippoth sourcebook.

I'm sorry, but the qlippoth are pretty obviously at least partly inspired by Lovecraft. Heck, one former qlippoth turned demon is named Dagon! (The idea of Dagon as a demon lord predates the invention of the qlippoth, though.)

Actually, I am a god from Mesopotamia and Phoenicia, though these incompetent humans failed to preserve the knowledge on me beside my name, and I am not allowed to give these information myself. But this thing with the sea monster is mostly because I sound slightly like fish.


Dagān wrote:
lordzack wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Nothing bad with a Lovecraftian name for Lovecraftian horrors, but the qlippoth aren't Lovecraftian.

Now, I'm all for a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but that should be entirely different from a qlippoth sourcebook.

I'm sorry, but the qlippoth are pretty obviously at least partly inspired by Lovecraft. Heck, one former qlippoth turned demon is named Dagon! (The idea of Dagon as a demon lord predates the invention of the qlippoth, though.)
Actually, I am a god from Mesopotamia and Phoenicia, though these incompetent humans failed to preserve the knowledge on me beside my name, and I am not allowed to give these information myself. But this thing with the sea monster is mostly because I sound slightly like fish.

I was referring to the Lovecraftian deity, not the mythological one, obviously. Though Dagon's role as a demon lord in D&D is possibly a reference to the demonization of many pagan deities by the Jewish people, his attributes are certainly inspired by Lovecraft's version.

Silver Crusade

gbonehead wrote:
I'm having trouble thinking of a title that doesn't sound Lovecraftian (Eldritch Horrors? Elder Horrors? Ancient Abominations?)

Wreckage of Reality

Ancestors of the Abyss
First Evils
Primordial Fears


Jeff Erwin wrote:

My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?

I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.

*Not Brian Blessed.

What's wrong with BRIAN BLESSED?

Grand Lodge

gbonehead wrote:
I'm having trouble thinking of a title that doesn't sound Lovecraftian (Eldritch Horrors? Elder Horrors? Ancient Abominations?)
Mikaze wrote:


Wreckage of Reality
Ancestors of the Abyss
First Evils
Primordial Fears

.

Desk Reference of Dumber Demons


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
The Drunken Dragon wrote:
I'd like to know a bit more about the worshippers of demons, specifically. I mean, they're mentioned a lot, especially the Gorilla Kings and Lamashtu's worshippers, etc. But i mean i kind of want to see what place the cults of, say, Pazuzu, Nocticula, and other less mentioned demon lords have to do in Golarion.
Say we went the cults route. Would you want to see entries be something more like my Mammon article in Pathfinder #30, something more like Sean's gods articles we do every few AP volumes, or something else completely?

Part of me want to say god-articles for all of them!!

But then I remember how many they are, and think that something like the Faction Guide might be the best route to go - with 2 pages for each cult, maybe having the emphasis be a bit more on the 'lore' side than the Faction Guide had (although that's just my personal preference).


Jeff Erwin wrote:
Qlippoth or Qliphoth are from Kabala; the word means "husks" (as in a discarded shell, as from a nut or the chaff of wheat) - they are the obstacles to comprehending the Sephiroth.

I was not aware it was even a real word. I figured it was just made up somewhere >_>

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