Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. Organized Play Member. 486 posts. 3 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.
Years ago I got into an argument on these forums about whether or not goblins were inherently evil. I said they were, and I was being called a racist and worse before James Jacobs posted to say, "Yes goblins are inherently evil. It says so right in the Bestiatry." He went on to explain that goblins are creatures created by evil supernatural entities with the specific purpose of being evil; that it's not racist because fantasy games need enemies and the idea of inherently evil NONHUMAN races is a core foundational principle of RPGs; and that what was printed in bestiaries were, in fact, RULES like any others. If the description of a creature says it's evil, it's evil.
Funny how unconditional and emphatic statements like that get forgotten when there's money to be made.
I was originally extremely positive, and as the centuries passed I kept getting more and more positive, but then a coding error led me to get super-negative and now I just threaten to nuke everyone.
Wait, that's Gandhi, sorry. I don't know what my excuse is.
Wow, there are a lot of responses to this thread, which is...not that surprising, honestly. Admittedly it's a trivial issue on the surface, especially in comparison to all the other substantive reasons why people might be leery of PF2. There are a lot of issues that bulk larger in the whole conception of the game, certainly. But this does have the potential to become a a synecdoche for what a lot of people don't like about PF2, so on that level it's an instructive debate.
One of the things people seem to be objecting to is that the devs are removing the "Pathfinderyness" of the game and moving it dramatically and obviously toward 5e (to name a single competitor), but in a larger sense that's a debate about changing toward other things already on the market instead of standing its ground.
Paizo's goblins were always just about the last humanoid race you could imagine being core because they were completely insane, bloodthirsty, sociopathic pyromaniacs. Now they're just Kender (like Kender weren't annoying enough the first time around). It's taking a point of distinction away and deliberately regressing toward the mean.
It's not like it's surprising though, as this process has been going on since the first publication of Golarion. They already took out the two aspects of Golarion that were the most interesting to me personally. 1) Erastil being a LG chauvinist pig -- that's an awesome idea, a LG god whose views are so retrograde that he actually makes you angry, but he's still a lawful good deity, and 2) the Cult of the Dawnflower and Taldor, which is another great idea -- an aggressive cult of a good deity who does horrific things in the name of spreading the faith. There's a vast amount of story potential around that; in fact, I'd say that was the most interesting point about Golarion. There are many more examples I could cite, but to be honest I stopped paying much attention to Golarion a few years ago. It's useful to remember that Golarion really is a generic fantasy world of the kind we've been seeing since Forgotten Realms at least. At the beginning there were a lot of interesting bits attached to it that differentiated it from the ordinary (paladins of Asmodeus, anyone?), but since publication Paizo has been busily retconning those points out of existence.
Many years ago I read an observation that is really salient to this conversation. My own personal knowledge of this specific topic is limited, far more so than the writer I'm citing (sadly I can't recall his name -- pretty sure it was a man...does that narrow it down?) but it scanned right as confirming things I'd already observed. In essence, a study of the history of RPG publishing shows that the first edition of any game system or game world has a lot of weird, funny angles that mark it out as something unique, something that's very much an idiosyncratic vision. The second edition removes most of those aspects in favor of more generic and common mechanics or flavor. Each succeeding edition goes further down that road. New editions are a relentless march toward the mediocre mean until everything's just an indistinguishable mass with every other game out there. This isn't universal, of course; some games and settings stubbornly maintain their uniqueness. But it's the case with a lot of things, and I think we're receiving a lot of indications that PF2 will be walking that same road. "People like goblins, therefore goblins are core and have an iconic and everything" is highly emblematic of that march to the mean, and I think people are sensing it and rebelling against it.
It is, of course, possible to say that GMs can make any modifications they desire in their individual games, but that ignores the dominant role Golarion plays in the game (development and play alike). Many, many aspects of Pathfinder are explicitly tied to that world, Society on down to APs, and it sounds like Golarion is getting baked in even further going forward. That does limit the game's flexibility and ease of use, especially when the GM has to be eternally vigilant about whether a new feat, trait, spell, class, or whatever is going to blatantly clash with their established world by virtue of being inextricably tied to the default setting. IOW, the more work you need to do to turn the default game into a game you want to play, the less reason there is to pick that game in the first place.
A couple of thoughts before I fade back into the woodwork:
1. D&D and derivatives do not emulate any fantasy stories ever written EXCEPT those that are directly based on D&D. D&D is wholly its own genre, based on a kludge of ideas cobbled together in harlequin motley from a wide variety of different sources, none of which were in sync with the others. You cannot emulate Conan, Aragorn, Kvothe, Fafhrd, Rhialto, Elric, Roland Deschain, Ali Baba, Jon Snow, Morgan le Fay, Duny, or the Deryni with D&D because, guess what, they and the worlds they inhabit don't work anything like D&D characters or worlds. You can't take expectations from one genre and cram them onto another and expect them to fit.
2. Comparing games to fiction is wildly misleading and wholly irrelevant. In fiction, the author and the director *dictate* what will happen, whereas in games it's dictated by dice or chits or Jenga towers or whatever you crazy kids are using these days for conflict resolution. In the whole history of everything, no character in fiction has ever been injured that an author or director didn't want to be injured, no magic item worked or failed to work in any way that the author or director didn't dictate, and no quest failed or succeeded but that the author or director dictated that it would be so. There is *no* randomness to fiction. So for the love of Jebus please stop demanding that your games should emulate your fiction, because doing so just makes it clear you don't understand how either fiction or games actually work.
You can't expect people to receive out-of-context snippets of information about something they're excited about/dreading without knowing they're going to immediately engage in rampant speculation about what it means. That's just not how human brains work.
"Here is an isolated piece of information for the thing you're eagerly awaiting three months from now. Make no speculations! Draw no conclusions! Form no opinions! IGNORE ME!" is never, ever gonna fly.
I think though that we should all know well enough:
- the information we are getting is incomplete and lacking context
- extrapolating based on incomplete information is fraught with peril
- this thread is going to still be here (probably) in August
So while it may be some deeper reptile brain impulse to scream "Gamist! Overcomplicated!" or whatever, we can still aspire to be better than that. It is a long time until August, after all.
Aspire to be better than that. Huh. Well, I've yet to encounter a web board that could double as a self-improvement group, but I must concede that it's possible, in theory. As a wise man once said, "In theory, Communism works. IN THEORY."
It must also be conceded that it was always much, much more likely that their strategy would produce exactly the results we now see. Humans are and shall remain human.
Maybe people gotta relax and be patient instead of jumping to conclusions and stating Uninformed opinions with inflammatory language as game design axioms delivered by the gods.
You can't expect people to receive out-of-context snippets of information about something they're excited about/dreading without knowing they're going to immediately engage in rampant speculation about what it means. That's just not how human brains work.
"Here is an isolated piece of information for the thing you're eagerly awaiting three months from now. Make no speculations! Draw no conclusions! Form no opinions! IGNORE ME!" is never, ever gonna fly.
Having slept on it, I've come to the conclusion that being mad for five months is a bad idea.
No matter how much people rail about resonance in here, it's going in the playtest, and if actual instances of play don't run into these hypothetical problems anywhere in the playtest then it's probably fine. If those problems show up in the playtest that's when feedback is useful.
That's why the slow drip has been less than helpful. They release an out-of-context snippet and then they're all "settle down, you don't have the big picture" when the community pounces on it like raw meat. It would have been much, much better to hold off on the announcement until a few days prior to the release of the playtest. As it is, people's opinions are becoming firmly entrenched over scraps of information, and firmly-entrenched opinions don't change easily.
Yeah, but they couldn’t do that. It wouldn’t work. They need this much time to do public getting-ready things, like ordering a print run, getting preorders, and informing retailers.
I mean, imagine the boards if this were instead leaked as “Paizo asking gaming stores how many copies of Pathfinder 2 they want.”
Then say, "Hey guys! Big announcement -- we're doing a second edition! We'll tell you more when we're close to the date!" Then a week before the release start dropping the things they're dropping now, one or even two a day. You still lose the "How dare you betray me by doing another edition!!1!eleven!" folks but you were gonna lose them anyway. As it is, people are really getting worked up over fog and smoke.
Having slept on it, I've come to the conclusion that being mad for five months is a bad idea.
No matter how much people rail about resonance in here, it's going in the playtest, and if actual instances of play don't run into these hypothetical problems anywhere in the playtest then it's probably fine. If those problems show up in the playtest that's when feedback is useful.
That's why the slow drip has been less than helpful. They release an out-of-context snippet and then they're all "settle down, you don't have the big picture" when the community pounces on it like raw meat. It would have been much, much better to hold off on the announcement until a few days prior to the release of the playtest. As it is, people's opinions are becoming firmly entrenched over scraps of information, and firmly-entrenched opinions don't change easily.
For the record, since someone mentioned "antisocial characters who are good with magic items" earlier: it seems like the easiest design in the world to create a feat to handle this type of character.
Studied Artifice (General Feat)
Lacking the force of will to drive magic items, you've studied their underlying principles and figured out how to make them work.
Benefit: You use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when determining your available resonance.
That could be an answer. Though I hope its not. I want all classes MAD without SAD work arounds.
How does Resonance help make CHA-based characters MAD? If anything it reinforces their SAD.
Some things are going to be more useful. Making a limited pool resource governing magic item use is going to restrict rather than enhance the use of anything remotely marginal. It’s practically an inevitability.
Unless the Resonance level is set so high that it literally would only come into play when preventing CLW wand spam, in which case as why have the system at all?
Its your table its your rules as far as i know there is no problem for me and few folks i talked. Hell do we have rules for custom magic items or not if you scared that much from rolling few extra dice and int checks. I am realy sorry for your DM as i can sympathize the headache he or she feels every time you play.
Gee, condescending much? What the heck.
Anyway, after giving this system another night's sleep I'm not 100% opposed. Based on what we know now it's a g-d train wreck, of course, but if the problems are fixed I can see the utility of it.
The main problems I still see are 1) single-use items need to be exempt, 2) something has to be done to make it more likely, not less likely, that people will use cool miscellaneous items (though I think addressing #1 will go a long way toward that), and 3) CHA has suddenly surged from the stat most people dump to another stat EVERYONE has to pump (along with CON and WIS), which is actually worse. Of those, #3 is the only one I see that I don't know how to solve.
I'd much rather see something like diminishing returns from similar wands.
For instance: your first hit from a CLW wand (any CLW wand) heals you for the normal amount. The second is normal -2, then -4, and so on. Use whatever numbers/rate-of-decay balances best. You could even use other cure wands, potions, scrolls, etc., but the increasing penalty would apply to any/all CLW wands.
That was close to my first thought as well, but then we get into just keeping around wands of almost-the-same-thing to get around "similar", or else "similar" ends up nebulously defined, or else developers have to walk on glass whenever they release a new spell for fear of accidentally breaking the wand economy.
I think there will be a lot of working around the Resonance economy though, and it won't just affect spells. We don't yet know how odious that burden will be -- whether it adds a little to the GM's plate or is manifested as a whole new heaping platter. It's going to add *something new* to the GM's consideration when writing or running a game, that's for sure.
The whole talk of "I don't want to need any healers!" is what led 4e to such high amounts of non-magical healing, including 100% overnight healing. That's a dangerous path to go.
Fair point. I'm not arguing against healers, though -- I am arguing against every table being obligated to have a healbot. There's a lot of territory between those two points, and I think what most of us are arguing about here is where the sweet spot is.
Erik Mona says they break immersion, therefor we all must accept that they break immersion.
who (besides you just now) has ever expressed this sentiment that if Erik Mona says something no-one can question it?
Nice troll and entirely unhelpful post that lessens the discussion.
In the Know Direction podcast, Mona went on at some length about how much he hates -- and I mean hates -- CLW wands. Given the opacity of the devs thus far on the justification for this new system, we're semi-facetiously operating under the assumption that his pet peeve is the only reason for it. Not that we (or at least I) believe that, we're just having a bit of fun.
I don't think it is about 'None of the players wants to play the dedicated healer' but more of, 'We're 13 levels in and the player who played the healer suddenly has to leave the group because of reasons, so, is anyone not invested enough in his character at this point and wants to change? No? Well..."
GM takes over the PC.
GM's too lazy to do that? Then he is going to have to modify future encounters to deal with the lack of a healer.
Too lazy for that? Find a new GM.
This isn't hard.
The GM has enough to do without trying to also do a player's job. It's got nothing to with "lazy" and everything to do with "I'm doing my job over here."
And if I'm running PFS, I can't modify jack OR run a PC. And if I'm running an AP, well, the reason I bought the AP is so the work of balance has been done for me (corner cases aside). If I have to reconceptualize every single encounter because the game demands a healbot and we don't have one then I might as well homebrew the whole darned thing.
Resonance seems like a weird system to me. I guess I can see where it's coming from, but Pathfinder characters want to kill monsters and take their stuff. Now they just can't use as much of it?
This right here. 3.x went pretty far in the direction of bombarding PCs with magic of all sorts when compared with previous editions, and now that's what players (current players at least) are expecting from the game.
It very well may be that PF2 is an attempt to rebalance the game back toward 1e, where you rarely got magical items and those you did get were determined by luck/the DM and not by how much money the PCs had. If so, well...bravo. That's bold and I would personally like it if it meant dragging the magic mart out into the alley and...disposing of it.
But I suspect (based on nothing more than a hunch) that most PF players don't want to go down that road. From what I've seen (and again, this is IME), most players like the magic mart, they like being festooned with magic items of every description, and they pretty much aren't keen on that changing too much. I am fully prepared to be proven wrong, however.
And obviously people are right when they say that Resonance makes a healbot more necessary than ever. Unless, that is, we're going to see a 4E-style system of self-healing, or that system as adapted by 5e. Which, you know, they're totally not copying 5e so it can't be that.
PFS is a thing, where house rules are not allowed. It's pretty important to the devs that this game mode works as desired by them right out of the box. It's also where the CLW Wand issue was seen the most.
To be clear, I was referring to a game rule, not a house rule. If Mona simply can't abide the existence of CLW wands he can make a rule that there are no CLW wands, or any healing wands for that matter. Yes it's illogical and an exception to the way magic is supposed to work for the sake of one man's pet peeve, but Resonance is a much bigger and more intrusive one.
I'm not bothered from a simulation perspective, because magic is made up. (You can declare that zone of truth works however you like - it's how societies in the game world respond to its availability that I'm going to question.) Maybe magic just likes people who are likeable; that's certainly how sorcery and UMD work. [snip]
I understand what you're saying, but magic should still have some basic rules it MUST follow if it's to be an actual system rather than a handwave and a "Do whatever you want." You need to say "Magic works like this, and it always works like this" if it's not to become simple fiat. It has to have comprehensible and consistent internal logic, even if its absurd in real world terms.
That's a really limited view of what charisma represents.
Even if Charisma means other things (which it may or may not -- I've never seen a logical explanation for how it does something other than that that wouldn't logically be better covered by Wisdom), it *still* has the effect of making likable people able to use magic items more often. From an in-game viewpoint, what's the relationship?
Let's define it as "force of personality" instead of likability. It still doesn't explain why a magic item works more often for person with more magnetism than it does for someone else. If a magic item works more often on A than B, why don't spells? Or supernatural abilities? Isn't magic magic? Is the magic that powers items some fundamentally different type of force than the magic that powers spells or supernatural abilities? If so, that opens up a whole other kettle of fish. If not, the spellcasting for everyone, not just bards and sorcerers (of the new core classes) should be contingent upon it, as should supernatural abilities. And items themselves should be variable based on the Charisma of the maker -- after all, Charisma should determine how much magic the maker can infuse into an item.
None of these questions had to be asked before Resonance.
This is more than just CLW wands, this is also replacing the body slots, and hopefully charged items.
I will also support the idea of exempting single use magic items of Resonance cost
I understand the idea of wanting to get away from the Big 6, but doesn't simply banning stat/save/to hit boosts from items and giving inherent character bonuses already do that? The system in unchained was workable, and if tweaks were needed then tweaks could be made. How in the world is it better, or "more Pathfindery" to make everything you do tally against some score determined by how likable you are?
In thinking about it, it's partially the fact that this system is based on Charisma that's bothering me. There is no logical, in-game explanation for why people who are more fun at parties should be able to use magical items more often. It's strictly a metagame construct to boost the usefulness of a stat that the designers have decided is underutilized.
I saw that, and it occurred to me that the best solution to that problem, if a solution was deemed necessary for one guy's pet peeve, was to ban wands of CLW. There, problem solved. You don't need to build a whole new system to justify why using them is now suboptimal.
I genuinely don't get what problem this whole system is trying to solve. Is it *just* that some people on the design team don't like wands of CLW? Because there are many, many, many better and simpler solutions for that.
Is it that the design team wants to drastically limit the number of magic items that players can use? If so, why? Isn't the magic mart a core assumption of making effective characters in 3.x? Even if you don't need the Big 6 (and I applaud that idea, but that problem was fixed with Unchained) then this is still building an intrusive superstructure that never existed before to solve a relatively simple problem.
Besides, hasn't D&D always had as a significant goal the accumulation and use of magic items? Why limit that like this?
And if the idea is to make Charisma vital...well...why? If you're trying to streamline the system and you discover that a given stat is nigh-useless, then surely the logical reaction is to eliminate the stat, not create a bunch of new things that rely on the stat. Even barring that, why is it a bad thing that some stats are more useful than others? Is it such a bad thing that Charisma only gets pumped if you want to be charismatic?
Nothing is more unheroic than sitting around for a minute or more after combat poking everyone with a clw wand.
Leaving the townsfolk trapped in a cultist-controlled cathedral while you go back to the inn for a night's sleep is significantly less heroic than sitting around for a minute or more after combat poking everyone with a clw wand.
I doubt that is the default solution people will opt for now. After all the wand-spam is a tool to help in fulfilling the quest. Going back to town for a nights rest is basically abandoning the quest. I doubt people will have that little interest in completing their task/continuing the story.
Seriously? "I'm slightly scuffed, I'm not moving another foot until I get healing" is a common sentiment at every Pathfinder table I've played at, from home games to PFS, as is "Rushing in when we're depleted will just get us all killed. We need to wait until tomorrow so we can get our spells/abilities back." The system doesn't encourage the kind of boldness you're talking about, and it never will as long as the last fight is the always the hardest and most taxing fight.
A caution I would throw up about the advancement system is that it would require a much more finely-tuned and accurate system of calculating CR than the current system, which IME provides only a very, very rough (and frequently very misleading) approximation of the actual difficulty of any given encounter. If you're pulling XP out of individual monsters and other encounter elements and putting it all on CR, the means of calculating CR better be *precise.*
I'm not sure it needs to be SO precise. With the simplification of exp, you can easily adjust bonuses if the fight turned out way too easy or hard. If a fight is more difficult than you anticipate, based on cr, you can simply adjust the experience gain accordingly.
Adjusting XP gain doesn't help if the PCs are dead, which is an all-too-frequent result of "going by CR." For example, if you want to have some malicious fun, pit a mosquito swarm against the average first-level party. It's only CR+2, but count the corpses it will leave in its wake! Whee!
Of course an *experienced* GM can adjust encounter difficulty on the fly, but the main point of PF2 (all protestations from Paizo aside) is to attract new customers. If the wacky, imprecise, and unpredictable CR system is used as the basis for encounters, then there will be a lot of player frustration and a lot of newcomers dipping their toes into PF2 and nothing more.
A caution I would throw up about the advancement system is that it would require a much more finely-tuned and accurate system of calculating CR than the current system, which IME provides only a very, very rough (and frequently very misleading) approximation of the actual difficulty of any given encounter. If you're pulling XP out of individual monsters and other encounter elements and putting it all on CR, the means of calculating CR better be *precise.*
Any idea what this means for the Pawn line. I don't mind a new book, but I want my 1,000s of pawns to still match up. I am hoping you are just planing on releasing revised versions of the bestiaries.
I wouldn't worry about that. D&D/PF has been reusing the same monsters since the Little Brown Book days. There will still be orcs, kobolds, trolls, giants, unicorns, etc. The art will change of course, but the monsters will remain the same.
Listening to the podcast gives several examples of skill checks, and I'm strongly disliking what I'm seeing. The problems I have with them just from this example are:
1. Which skills one has appears to be subject mostly to background, ancestry, and class, limiting player choice -- I want to be able to grab skills at many points during the course of play.
2. Skill rankings appear to be very much in the 5e style, i.e. based solely on proficiency, level and characteristic, independent of player choice. This is a deeply, deeply unfortunate choice. It was a deal-breaker for me in 5e and it's a deal-breaker here.
3. The above two factors combined mean a far more rigid and far less interesting skill system.
I'm not entirely sure what the point of these changes are and how the devs perceive this to A) eliminate a problem in 1E, or B) constitute a substantive improvement over 1E. I'm hoping a dev could stop by and give some rationale for this, as right now it looks like A) change for the sake of change, and B) an active step toward a less customizable and less interesting skill system.
Instead of having to deal with mechanics I don't like that get included because of Golarion, it's faster for me to just use a system which isn't tied to a setting.
This exactly. There are plenty of good systems out there that are perfectly setting-agnostic. Using one of those means I don't have to adapt myself to Golarion assumptions or risk some unforeseen mechanical difficulty by stripping something out that some other thing depends on.
If it's a race or a class that's tied into Golarion and I don't like it, I can snip it it out. If I don't like the flavor text around something I can change it. As noted, this is something most of us have been doing for years.
What I worry about is that certain *mechanics* might be tied into Golarion in some manner we can't currently foresee. When you start excising or altering mechanics that have been designed to fit together in a certain way and in a specific setting, you change things downstream, pretty much always, and it's usually very difficult, or even impossible, to understand those knock-on effects before you tinker.
I have no idea if this will be the case or not. If the fluff of the game is tied to Golarion but the mechanics are agnostic, all well and good. If the mechanics are tied to Golarion, then it's not good at all.
Damn, you don't look at a forum for like three years and the whole layout changes...
Speaking of which, change! As someone who's been saying for five years that it was time for a new edition that moved things away from 3.5 assumptions, I'm glad. I'm glad for Paizo more than for me, because I don't like the sound of most of the changes being bruited, but hey you can't have everything.
An awful lot of the things described here do sound *a lot* like 5e, despite the protestations of staff that, no, really, they're totes different! In fact, when I read through the blog post I actually checked the date because I thought it was an April Fool's joke. I get why they're doing it: in terms of sales 5e is eating Pathfinder's lunch right now, new players are virtually all going to 5e, and 5 has damned near 100% of the flashy online visibilty.
Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of 5e, so those changes don't get my motor running like, at all. And that's the risk of a new edition -- you always lose a few people along the way.
But the fact that I may not like the direction things look to be moving is irrelevant: Paizo had to change Pathfinder. It had to put out a new edition or D&D would swallow it like a shark swallows a minnow. The market is moving decisively away from Pathfinder and the only way to turn a portion of it back is through reinvention. Businesses do it all the time -- also like a shark, a company has to move forward or it dies.
And I hate to break it to all the oldtimers like me who are complaining that Paizo is being terribly cruel in invalidating the massive bookshelf you've built up over the past 18 years of this game's life, but the truth is *we don't matter.* A single newcomer matters more than any five of us, because the newcomer will buy all the books and tell his or her friends about this awesome game and then the friends will buy the books -- us grogs just can't match that economic impact. Every book we already own is a book Paizo can't sell to us again, it's as simple as that. And moan about "cash grabs" and "betrayals" all you want, but the collective goodwill of everyone who owns all their products is worth less to Paizo's bottom line than a few thousand people who are willing to buy it all again.
The tempest that is this forum reminds me of the customer survey cards that the big wargame companies Avalon Hill and SPI used to put into all their games. People who bought the games filled them out and sent them back saying what they wanted in games. Thing is, only the diehard grogs ever filled them in, so Avalon Hill and SPI were only hearing from the people who wanted bigger boards, more pieces, more rules, more complexity. Naturally they listened the feedback and kept churning out harder and harder games, which kept the grogs happy and drove off everyone else. And guess what? Avalon Hill is now a brand owned by Hasbro and SPI is, well, nothing as far as I know. I'm not saying there's a direct correlation between AH/SPI and the groaning shelves of rules and splats accrued over the past 18 years...but it was aliens.
A smart company listens to its diehard customers, sure, but never at the expense of attracting new ones. So shine on, Paizo. I hope the new edition is a rousing success. I'll take a look for sure, even if I don't push beyond the core book. Here's hoping you can steal Hasbro's thunder a second time.
I think by the time Earth becomes like Athas, Paizo will have come out with a couple of new editions of Pathfinder.
There's going to be two new editions of Pathfinder by 2020? :-)
Standing pat isn't an option. Well, it *is* an option, obviously -- I use a rhetorical device when I claim it's not. You get the point. Standing pat means you keep going as is, issuing more and more new doodads and gewgaws on an already too-fussy system, watching CRB sales decline, watching players drift away. It means stagnation and decay.
People say they just want the basics cleaned up. What does that mean? A new CRB? A new APG? UM and UC? Campaign setting material? Bestiaries, to bring them in line with the new rules? Once you've done that, what's the difference between that and a new edition as far as the money you've spent? And it's not like they aren't putting out updated setting books (Cheliax and Andoran for sure, and I don't even pay attention to that line anymore so there may be more for all I know), so subscribers and completists have already bought the same material twice. It's not like there's no precedent.
Insisting on backwards compatibility is insisting nothing of significance change. That's why we're still dealing with the martial/caster disparity (and for the record I like Vancian magic in D&D, there's just got to be a better way to implement it than we've got). For Pathfinder, backwards compatibility between a first and potential second edition means backwards compatibility to D&D 3.5, because Pathfinder was designed to be compatible with 3.5. In other words, demanding backward compatibility is demanding all new products be fully compatible with 10+ year old products produced by competitors. That's not reasonable, and it's not a way to keep a favorite game growing and vital -- Paizo makes no money off those old products. They make money off selling things now, today, things that they produce.
And Starfinder? Yeah, I have no intention of ever even looking at a Starfinder book because it holds as much appeal for me as an RPG about baking. If I'm playing a D&D-offshoot, I want it to be a D&D-offshoot, not some sci fi Frankenstein's monster. And I refuse to even consider the possibility that fewer customers would be lost by expecting them to buy Starfinder in order to cobble together a fantasy campaign than by a second edition of Pathfinder.
Just because 5E or 4E or another game system entirely exists or was updated or some people have moved to it because they believe it fixes some problems doesn't mean that Paizo needs to suddenly ditch everything to somehow keep up with the Joneses.
But when your revenue starts contracting because you're moving fewer units (and ask any FLGS if that's what's happening to Pathfinder) then you DO have to make a change. No market stays static, and companies either adapt or die.
I mean, even though I know I might not buy another Paizo book because of how they are currently handling things, it doesn't mean that they should stop making the current edition. I am but one jerk on the internet, just because I dislike what they are currently doing doesn't mean they should listen to me and do a severe change.
Pathfinder's numbers are down and 5E is the new 800-pound gorilla. I know a lot of people who've switched from Pathfinder to 5E, partially because it's the new thing (and the new thing always has attraction) and partially because it does actually provide a different experience at the table.
So it's not just one clown on the internet (or two clowns, since I want it too). It's a lot of people who are silently dropping away and moving their money to other products without bothering to come to this forum and tell the world about it. And as long as Pathfinder continues without a shakeup significant enough to pull attention back to it, that trend will continue and maybe even accelerate.
It's not a case of "don't rock the boat because it's winning the regatta," not anymore. There's a new big kid on the playground and you can't beat him doing the same things you were doing before he showed up.
A while ago I reached the point where I'd bought enough Paizo rulebooks. In fact, I know exactly when it happened: when the Occult Adventures playtest hit and I looked at those classes. It seemed like every single one of them had some new subsystem I had to learn just to know how to play it, and I discovered that I had no interest in doing that anymore. And Ultimate Intrigue was just a joke to me when I looked at the Vigilante -- why would I ever bother to learn that class?
This is not to say that the OA classes or the Vigilante classes are bad classes -- heck, maybe they're the greatest classes ever committed to paper. I wouldn't know because I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE. I have reached saturation point and I am not willing to absorb anything new in this system.
Pathfnder is a chassis that has had enough things bolted onto it that it's gotten simultaneously boring and irritating. In other words, we've passed the point where expansion tips over into bloat. Bloat bloat bloat. Bloaty McBloatface. And the solution to bloat isn't more bloat.
This is well illustrated by my reaction to the Patghfinder Unchained facelifts: the fighter was boring, but adding a whole bunch of fiddly bits to it just made it boring and fiddly; the rogue was dependent on suicidal sneak attacks, and adding a bunch of fiddly bits to it just made it suicidal and fiddly; the summoner was a one-man army, but putting his troops into uniforms just meant it was a regular one-man army instead of a guerilla force. The problem was the core design of these classes, not that their purse clashed with their heels.
Meanwhile, casters are still lame at low levels and broken at high levels, martials still face the problem of declining returns, and whole thing was innovative 16 years ago but isn't getting any younger. A lot of great ideas have been introduced into RPGs in the last 16 years, but Pathfinder necessarily ignores them all. Pathfinder came about as part of the same reaction that produced the OSR retro-clones, but ironically Pathfinder itself is now retro.
But you know what would flip that on its head? A new edition that tips over the Etch-a-Sketch and goes in a new direction -- a Paizo direction, not a holdover from the WotC direction. Let Paizo show what it can do when it unshackles itself from ancient assumptions and questions everything. Let's see if it can solve the questions that have bedeviled D&D since its inception. This doesn't have to cut completely from whole cloth the way 4E did -- 5E proved you can still come up with a new game that feels like D&D. I bet Paizo could do just as well if it tried.
It would at least make me interested enough to buy a few new books.
1. How successful was the Shattered Star AP, commercially and (in your opinion) from a game standpoint?
2. What are the current chances of seeing a Darklands-focused AP? Personally I'd love it, but it would obviously he aimed at a segment of your market.
3. Would being set wholly in the Darklands be enough to qualify an AP as "experimental" in the experimental/traditional track?
4. What one or two AP books would you most like to "have back," i.e. take another crack at, for whatever reason? For me the campaign-breaker so far has been the third book of Serpent Skull (literally, it killed my group's SS campaign) so hopefully that would be one!
5. How successful was the Reign of Winter AP, commercially and (in your opinion) from a game standpoint?
With Emerald Spire (and Shattered Star, I suppose) in the rearview, what's the corporate outlook on the commercial viability of the megadungeon, either as an AP or a stand-alone" superproduct a la Goodman Games' Castle Whiterock or Necromancer's Rappan Athuk?
Specifically, what are the odds of a true "megadungeon" AP? It seems to me that dungeons are XP-intensive settings, so keeping the level progression right with the book structure could prove a challenge.
Also, would you consider something like Kickstarter to enable you to hire the freelancers for a huge megadungeon like the two above-mentioned products?
Unfortunately those sheets are designed terribly -- they spread out necessary information over four pages in a weird and illogical manner. The player in question used it for an inquisitor for one session, then gave up in frustration and found a different sheet!
Does anyone know of a good character sheet specifically designed for the Warpriest? One of my players is going to be rolling one up and she'd like a sheet that condenses all the relevant information onto a couple of pages or three. Any help would be appreciated.
We're almost at the end of Book 4, but the standout moment of the campaign so far came all the way back in the second session:
The party had routed the goblins in their attack on the town, and in investigating the corpses of the attackers, they noticed that some of the goblin gear seemed to have been salvaged from the town's own garbage. Two characters, an irresponsible rogue and a dissolute and slightly mad ranger, got very drunk, failed to drink the hagfish water, and decided that the fact that the goblins were scavenging trash was a Highly Significant Clue. Therefore they wandered over to Junker's Edge and tried to climb down to inspect the dump.
The rogue made his roll with aplomb, despite the penalty for drunkenness, and made it to the ground.
The ranger, however, rolled a natural 1 for a total of about 5; he also made it to the ground, but only by means of losing his grasp on the cliff face, pinwheeling down the rocks, and landing in the surf at something like -6 hp. The rogue hauled him out of the surf but was faced with a rising tide that threatened to drown them both. I had the ranger's player make a d20 roll as a Luck Roll (thank you, Call of Cthulhu!) and he rolled a 1. Just as he was staring up the cliff, trying to figure out how to haul an unconscious 220-lb man up them, the Gorvi boys begin tossing the detritus of the previous day's celebration over the cliff...
The ranger's player is long gone from the campaign, but we who remain often look back in amusement. :-D
The text of Improved Familiar states, "You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil)." On its face, this seems to mean that a True Neutral wizard/witch/whatever could have a familiar of any alignment, since even the extreme alignments (Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil, etc.) are no more than one step away from True Neutral on each axis (i.e. one ethics step from neutral to lawful, one morals step from neutral to good). Or am I reading this wrong?
I'm going to be running this in an online format (Google Hangouts/rolld20) and, crucially, in short sessions (2-1/2 hours) every two weeks, so I want something quick and clean even for long battles. I'd love to run it in GURPS because that has exactly the gritty combat feel I'd enjoy implementing, but it's way too crunchy for what I can do in this format.
I picked up Legend (for one American dollar, no less) and it looks like it will serve. Pretty much anything BRP-based runs smoothly, and I think it will do what I need it to do. Plus there's so much support for it out there, given that I can yank anything RuneQuest into it.
So thanks everyone who participated in this thread. I really appreciate all the advice.
Oddly, one of the systems I'm strongly considering is BRP, and classic Runequest was the progenitor of that. I haven't seen the latest Runequest rules -- are the BRP-derived, or something else?
From what I understand, RQ6 is by the same authors as Mongoose's RuneQuest II, which in turn was the successor to Mongoose's RuneQuest which was heavily BRP-derived and licensed from and built atop the previous RuneQuest edition.
Another option would be to pick up RQII's successor at Mongoose, Legend (currently only $1 from DTRPG) - which was basically a rebadged RQII with the Glorantha stuff stripped off as they lost the license.
I just picked up Legend (because $1) so I will give it a look. It's backwards-compatible with all Runequest II products too, so it would have a lot of support. I'll take a peek at it and see what it's like.
Torchbearer. Crazy awesome dungeon crawling. Check out the GM's screen
OK, that DM screen is awesome. :-D I don't think I'd ever use it, though, because this will be a Google Hangouts/Rolld20 game. Too bad, because I think my players would get a giggle out of it.
Charlie D. wrote:
D&D 5E. You can see basic character creation for free next month and a full set of basic rules for free in the middle of August. If you buy a PDF of a D&D Next adventure you can get the playtest rules with it right now.
I was thinking about that. I wasn't too impressed during the playtest, but I was looking at it for what it was trying to be: a Pathfinder slayer. It comes up short in that regard, but it there's potential for this application.
Charlie D. wrote:
Runequest 6. One book, all the rules. Has dwarves, elves, halflings. And for RQ 6 is "RuneQuest: Classic Fantasy
Rod Leary's excellent guide to traditional dungeon crawling, evoking the halcyon days of fantasy roleplaying's origins, comes to RuneQuest. Rod is adapting his Classic Fantasy rules (first published as an acclaimed BRP monograph) exclusively for RuneQuest 6th edition. This isn't a supplement - it's a complete game specifically tailored to recreating that original dungeoneering experience. Rod's hard at work on the manuscript, and we are anticipating a late 2014/early 2015 release."
Oddly, one of the systems I'm strongly considering is BRP, and classic Runequest was the progenitor of that. I haven't seen the latest Runequest rules -- are the BRP-derived, or something else?
Charlie D. wrote:
Fantasy Hero Complete.
I was a Hero player for many years before Pathfinder drew me back to D&D. I enjoyed it a lot, but it doesn't have a learning curve, it's got a learning cliff. Once you learn how the whole system works, it's dead easy to play and run, but until you do the whole thing seems random and confusing. Plus I kind of had a falling-out with the guys who ran the company...
Charlie D. wrote:
Dungeon World.
I looked at this one but it's too story-gamer for what I'm looking at. I don't mind story games, but I don't want to dungeon with one.
Charlie D. wrote:
HARP Fantasy.
I confess I know nothing whatsoever about this.
Charlie D. wrote:
Dungeon Crawl Classics. Not a retro-clone in my opinion and has great adventure support. Can't wait for my boxed set at the end of the year.
This one falls into retro-clone for me, though the adventure support is fantastic (if a tad uneven).
I'm thinking of putting together a megadungeon-type setting, but I'm not sure what system to use. I love Pathfinder, but combats can take a long time and creating replacement characters (and face it, in a proper megadungeon you're going to need replacement characters) can be problematic at middle levels and up, given the amount of time it takes to craft one and the amount of time it takes to learn to play what you've just crafted. Therefore, I'm looking for something else.
What I want:
* A system with some degree of customizability in characters to allow for, if not system mastery in the 3.x sense, at least some player creativity and choice in character design
* A character creation system that can generate mid-level and up characters efficiently
* A combat system that's got some options beyond "I attack" but is faster than Pathfinder
* A reasonable buy-in cost, since I don't want to spend $300 on books imported from Estonia or someplace (no offense intended to Estonians, I could just as well have chosen Latvia for this example :-D )
* A more-or-less typical fantasy setting; while I'm sure Numenera is great, it's not what I'm looking for
What I do not want:
* A retro-clone; I played the old D&D when it was new and I am under no illusion that it was better than newer incarnations
* Savage Worlds; IME the system isn't robust enough to support a lengthy campaign
What I don't care about one way or the other:
* A d20 system; fine if I have it, fine if I don't
* A point-buy system; ditto
So, does the system I'm describing even exist? Any ideas?
The AP would consist of the PCs gradually building up to finally destroying Rovagug once and for all. They'd do it piecemeal- destroying enclaves of cultists, artifacts and relics sacred to Rovagug; eventually destroying his remaining spawn. Then, when he's at his weakest, they'd go into the Pit of Gormuz itself and finally eliminate Rovagug in an epic confrontation.
(Among other things that could be done with this AP, we might finally get more info on Casmaron.)
Seeing as how a coalition of all the gods couldn't pull that off, I think that's far beyond the scope of what PCs can be expected to accomplish.
However, setting the same sights lower, what about, say, Achaekek? He's a legitimate deity, yes, but a minor one, and removing him could set the stage for the matriculation of a far more interesting and dynamic figure into the role of patron of assassins and thieves: Nocticula.
Because, frankly, Achaekek is boring and his assassins turning into giant insects is more silly than intimidating.
Full Name
Edda Winterclaw
Race
Skinwalker (Coldborn)
Classes/Levels
8th Level Witch (Cartomancer) w/ VMC Sorcerer (Harrowed Bloodline) HP 57/57; AC 18; T 14; FF 15 Init +3; Saves: F+7, R+8(+10), W+9[+10]; Senses: Scent ; Perception +10 [+11]; Status: +2 to Reflex (Changeable)+PfEnergy (96 pts)
Gender
Female
Size
Medium
Alignment
NG
Deity
Desna
Location
Varisa
Languages
Common, Skald, Varisian, Sylvan, Giant , and Draconic
Strength
12
Dexterity
16
Constitution
14
Intelligence
18
Wisdom
11
Charisma
10
About Edda Winterclaw
Used abilities per day!:
*Spell's Cast Today!: Trial of Fire and Acid;
*Harrow Casting: 3/day (1 used!)
[dice=Burning Hands! Reflex DC15 for 1/2 Fire Damage!]5d4[/dice]
[dice=Harrow Healing!]1d6[/dice] +1 Temp Hit Point!
[dice=Trial of Fire and Acid! Damage(Fire/Acid, for 8 rounds!)]1d6 + 1d6[/dice]
[ooc]Fort DC17 to reduce the damage by half!
[dice=Wand of Molten Orb (Splash Attack) with PBS]1d20 + 8[/dice]
[/spoiler=Molten Orb!]You create a fist-sized, red-hot ball of molten metal that you immediately hurl as a splash weapon. A direct hit deals 2d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of where the ball hits takes 1d6 points of fire damage from the splash (Reflex half). Each of these creatures takes an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on its turn for the next 1d3 rounds, unless it is cooled off (with water, snow, or any effect that deals 5 or more points of cold damage).[//spoiler]
[dice=Direct Damage(Fire)]2d6[//dice]
[dice=Direct Damage(Duration in Rounds)]1d3[//dice]
[dice=Splash Damage(Fire)Reflex DC13 for 1/2]1d6[//dice]
[dice=Splash Damage(Duration in Rounds)]1d3[//dice]
[spoiler=Black Tentacles!]Casting Time 1 standard action; Components V, S, M (octopus or squid tentacle); Range: medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level); Area: 20-ft.-radius spread; Duration: 1 round/level(D); Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance: NO!; DESCRIPTION: This spell causes a field of rubbery black tentacles to appear, burrowing up from the floor and reaching for any creature in the area. Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple each round at the beginning of your turn, including the round that black tentacles is cast. Creatures that enter the area of effect are also automatically attacked. The tentacles do not provoke attacks of opportunity. When determining the tentacles’ CMB, the tentacles use your caster level as their base attack bonus and receive a +4 bonus due to their Strength and a +1 size bonus. Roll only once for the entire spell effect each round and apply the result to all creatures in the area of effect. If the tentacles succeed in grappling a foe, that foe takes 1d6+4 points of damage and gains the grappled condition. Grappled opponents cannot move without first breaking the grapple. All other movement is prohibited unless the creature breaks the grapple first. The black tentacles spell receives a +5 bonus on grapple checks made against opponents it is already grappling, but cannot move foes or pin foes. Each round that black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check, it deals an additional 1d6+4 points of damage. The CMD of black tentacles, for the purposes of escaping the grapple, is equal to 10 + its CMB. The tentacles created by this spell cannot be damaged, but they can be dispelled as normal. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the tentacles last.[//spoiler]
[dice=Snowball RTA with PBS!]1d20 + 8[/dice]
[dice=Damage(Magic/Cold)]5d6+1[/dice]
[spoiler=Snowball]You throw a ball of elemental ice and snow at a single target as a ranged touch attack. The snowball deals 1d6 points of cold damage per caster level you have (maximum 5d6). No save![//spoiler]
Treasures/Rewards:
Edda gets all the Books cards that haven't been played yet (the Hidden Truth, the Inquisitor, the Idiot and the Snakebite), the Trumpet, the Survivor and the Teamster.(Updated)
*You can play these cards at any moment while in the Harrowed Realm, and they may have a situational effect, if played at the right moment. However, if played at the wrong time, they will be wasted, so use them if you feel it's appropriate, but use them wisely. You can trade cards, but you can't steal them or force someone to use theirs.
Playing a card is a swift action.
pie Rogg gave you is large enough to provide a total of eight meals.
Cloak of Fangs (Gift from Fat guy in red and white suit!) -Wearing!
*Wearing this animal-hair cloak grants a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. Furthermore, the wearer can force its teeth to grow rapidly up to five times per day as a swift action. The oversized teeth last for 1 round, during which time the wearer can make a bite attack. Treat this attack as a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage (or 1d4 if the wearer is Small). If the wearer already has a bite attack, the damage of that bite attack increases by one step.
+3 gp and 46 sp, +2 IOUs for 1 kiss each (Roach?).
-113 gp and 8 sp (for supplies and camels!)
Elixir of Fire Breath (1100gp)
Hexing Doll (2500gp)
Hit Points: 57 (Base 6, +2 Con, + Favored Class Bonus)
*Max at first level, half+1 later: 8 + 42 + 7FC
Saving Throws:
Fort +7; Ref +8(+10); Will +9[+10]
Cloak of Fangs (+1 Resistance)
(Sorcer VMC: +2 luck bonus to one stat. Change as a full round action: Usually set to a Reflex bonus!)
Special Attacks:
Harrow Casting 3/day (1/2 level)
*Draw 3 Harrow cards with a normally cast spell to augment that spell.
Hexes: Unless otherwise noted, using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The save to resist a hex is equal to 10 + 1/2 the witch’s level + the witch’s Intelligence modifier. (Current DC:18)
Level 3(4/day)
Bestow Curse*, Dispel Magic**, Trial of Fire and Acid*, Storm Step, Remove Curse, (Patron Spell: Harrow)
Level 4(3/day)
Charm Monster, Death Ward, Touch of Slime*, Black Tentacles*, (Patron Spell: Chaos Hammer*)
Spell Like ability:
*Calm Animals 1/day
*Twisted Fortune 3/day (30 feet. For 1 round, the target becomes confused and cannot directly control its actions (Will negates). Once a creature has been affected by twisted fortune, it is immune to the ability's effects for 24 hours. (DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier.)
Traits:
~ Sun-Blessed (Magic Trait)
Whenever you're affected by a healing effect that would heal more hit points than your maximum hit point total, you gain the excess healing as temporary hit points. You can gain up to a number of temporary hit points per day equal to your character level in this way. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute.
~Marked by Nature’s Magic (Skinwalker Racial Trait)
You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks involving fey and on Diplomacy checks to influence fey. Knowledge (nature) is always a class skill for you.
GM Bonus Abilities:
~Deck Connection: You starts the game with a masterwork harrow (Currently +1 and Corrosive) deck, which works as the wizard's arcane bond item (or the equivalent Arcane Bloodline feature if you are a spontaneous caster, Arcanists use the wizard-like rule). Any number of times per day, you can spend 10 minutes to attune with your deck. Doing so replenishes any card that has been destroyed. In case the whole deck has been destroyed, this attunement requires 8 hours and 200 gp per character level and generates a new masterwork harrow deck, without any magic enhancements that may have been placed on it. In case you are not a spellcaster, the deck allows you to prepare and cast a single 1st-level spell from the wizard/sorcerer or witch spell list once per day. The save DC of that spell is based on your highest mental score.
~Expert Harrower: You gain Harrowed as a bonus feat.
~Heart of the Cards: You can use Harrow Casting as per the Harrower prestige class a number of times each day equal to half your character level, with access to all of the six Tower abilities.
SQ:
Familiar: Special Harrow Deck (Family Heirloom)
Race Traits:
*Change Shape (Su): A skinwalker can change shape to and from a bestial form as a standard action. In bestial form, a Coldborn skinwalker gains a +2 racial bonus to Wisdom. While in this form, a skinwalker also takes on an animalistic feature that provides a special effect. Each time a skinwalker assumes bestial form, she can choose to gain one of the following features:
*Bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage
*2 claw attacks that each deal 1d4 points of damage
*Climb speed of 20 feet
*Scent to a range of 30 feet
These benefits last until the skinwalker returns to her humanoid form as a swift action. A skinwalker must first return to her humanoid form before changing to bestial form again to change benefits. Different skinwalker heritages allow skinwalker characters to select from different sets of bestial features.
EQUIPMENT
(Starting Money: 11,750 gp to start (179gp left)
Bracers of Armor (+2)
Wand of Web (3 Charges)[Updated]
Wand of Molten Orb (12 charges)[-3 Charges]
Wand of Cure Mod Wounds (13 Charges)[Updated]
Sow Thoughts 1st level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Transfer Tattoo 1st level Spell Scroll -transfered to Familiar
Stricken Heart 2nd level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Blood Transcription 2nd level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Ironskin 2nd level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Lipstitch 2nd level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Remove Curse 3nd level spell scroll -transfered to Familiar
Feather Tokens: Tree
Feather Tokens: Swan Boat
Feather Tokens: Anchor
Traveler's Grandiose (Harrow) Carrying Case (1200gp)
Equipment: Explorer's Outfit (0gp)
Advenurer's Sash (20gp)
Witch's kit: backpack, a bedroll, a belt pouch, candles (10), chalk (10), a flint and steel, ink, an inkpen, an iron pot, a mess kit, soap, a spell component pouch, torches (10), trail rations (5 days), and a waterskin(21gp)
Dagger (x4)(8gp)
Silver Holy Symbol of Desna(25gp)
Common (Extra) Harrow Deck (100gp)
Smoke Stick (20gp)
Thunderstone (x2) (60gp)
Tindertwig (x2) (2gp)
Potion of Prot. from Evil(50gp)
Cloak of Fangs~NEW!
Fluff:
Physical Description:
Edda is physically imposing as a woman, nearly 6 feet tall, flowing dark hair and an attitude that brooks no interference. She's not the prettiest woman around, but she does not tend to worry much about her appearance much either with a few small but obvious scars on her cheek and chin. She prefers soft furs (rabbit and mink mostly) and leather garments with some sort of sturdy boots usually.
- A backstory:
Edda Winterclaw is the daughter of an Ulfen reaver from the Lands of the Linnorm Kings and a Varisian witch from Korvosa. Her mother was a woman of an ancient lineage among the Varisians, a sorceress and Harrower of much renown to her people. Her father was a notorious pirate called Reginald "The Ripper" Winterclaw, captain of the infamous pirate ship Bloodgale. Captain Ripper captured Edda's mother in a famous sea battle, now mostly forgotten. Since that time, Reginald actually retired from piracy with his new found bride, as her mother agreed to marry the reaver after her capture, but only if in exchange he would give up the pirate life as well. Since that time, Edda was born, and often found as she grew that the couple were very odd parents, but well suited to one another at least after her birth. Growing up in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings was never boring, and her family lived close to the border of Irrisen, the hated land of the winter witches. Once she was of age, Edda was already a steady hand at Harrowing and divining, her mother a rock of guidance in those years. She later met and learned to parlay with fey, fight ice trolls, and war with Irrisen patrols and monsters from their frigid land. Recently Edda's mother passed away, and now Edda has decided to finally move south and visit her mother's people. Taking ship for Korvosa and leaving her father and several younger brothers amid many a tear, she believes her decision was the correct decision. In the end, the Harrow reading she performed before she left showed that she has much to learn of herself if she traveled toward her mother's past. If she could not trust the Harrow, what could she trust?
- A description of your personality:
Edda is an odd duck, as her blood and her environment has shaped most of her life. Her mother's ancient blood has given her the Harrower's gifts, and a connection to ancient magics that have only grown with the passage of time. This means she tends to like fey naturally, but just the presence of dark fey makes her angry without reason sometimes. Her unique blood also brought out her father's skinwalker heritage, and she feels this is an advantage in her life. However, she dislikes changing and growing her teeth into a weapon, and does so sparingly, since she does not like the taste of blood at all. She is slow to make decisions, like many diviners, but once made she sticks to them with tenacity.
- A roleplaying sample:
The sun was finally setting on the docks of Korvosa when Edda walked down the rickety gangplank of the Tide-Bound. It was an older but sturdy ship, bringing furs and other items from the north, in exchange for trade goods not easily found there. She waved a friendly gesture to the raunchy captain and his crew, smiling as she suddenly remembered a dirty limerick he had told her at their last meal.
"That old coot has such a dirty mind!"
Walking further into the darkening city, she approached a man standing idly near a posting of some sort, wearing the official colors of the Korvosan guard and looking bored. She points at him as she approaches.
"You sir! Are you a guardsman of this city? I have questions..." "Bugger off."
Caught in mid-sentence, Edda was taken aback for a moment simply from the man's rudeness. Shaking off the moment she tries to explain herself.
"You misunderstand sir. I merely..." "Bugger off wench. S'got work to do."
Watching the man move only to lean lazily at his post, he then seems to pointedly ignore her.
With a simple wrinkled 'V' forming between her eyes, she moves to block his gaze silently with her arms crossed in a angry pose.
"Hey there now! Your disturbin' the peace! MY peace! Now bugger off wench. S'got work to do."
"No."
"What now? Wadda' youse say to me?"
"No."
Spluttering at this fur-clad northerner, the man quickly gets a hold of himself.
"Now listen here girl..."
Moving swiftly, Edda is now in close proximity to the guard and presents her finger at his absurdly UN-amused face.
"No one calls me 'girl' except my father. That's not you!"
Seeing the wild look and animal-like shine in Edda's eye, the guard finds reasons not to anger her further.
"...I mean ma'am. Ma'am! Look...what...what is it you need newcomer?"
Noticing the fear in the man, she cursed herself silently and prayed her fur wasn't showing.
"I am looking for family and need directions to the local Varisian campsites. Probably outside of town yes? No Scarni! My mother warned me about them. I've come a long way..."
Seeing the woman relax, the guard gave a pause. Narrowing his eyes for a moment he responds.
"You normally find them outside of town, at their traditional places, but yourn' in luck Miss."
He gives her directions to something in town called the Korvosa Umbral Carnival.
"They will mostly all be there tonight. Tell them Chelly sent you."
Edda smiles at the man's sudden change in attitude and walks away with less anger in her heart as she follows the guard's easy directions.
Once out of sight, the guard shoots the retreating woman a rude gesture and hurriedly gets back to his 'busy' watch.
"Good for nothing wench deserves whatever she gets at THAT Carnival."
Cartomancer Archtype:
More than mere playing cards, harrow decks allow individuals to communicate with powers beyond mortal ken.
A witch who serves the spirits of the harrow in exchange for mystical power is known as a cartomancer. Rather
than connecting with a familiar, a cartomancer communes with her patron through a consecrated harrow deck.
Spell Deck
Each cartomancer carries a special harrow deck that allows her to communicate with her patron. Its ability to
hold spells functions identically to the way a witch's spells are granted by her familiar. The cartomancer must
consult her harrow deck each day to prepare her spells and cannot prepare spells that are not stored in the deck.
The spell deck cannot be used for this purpose if any cards are missing.
This ability replaces the witch's familiar.
*The following familiar ability works differently for a cartomancer.
Deliver Touch Spells (Su)
At 3rd level, when the cartomancer uses the Deadly Dealer feat with a card from her spell deck, the card is not destroyed and gains the returning weapon special ability.
In addition, the cartomancer can deliver a touch spell with a thrown card. This uses the Deadly Dealer feat (see below), except the attack is resolved as a ranged touch attack and the card deals no damage of its own. This ability can be used with any card (not just one from the cartomancer's spell deck).
*At 2nd level, a cartomancer gains the Deadly Dealer feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. The cartomancer gains the benefits of the Arcane Strike feat, but only for the purposes of using Deadly Dealer.
This replaces the witch's 2nd-level hex.
*Deadly Dealer Feat
Your skill with handling a deck and your arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into weapons.
Benefit(s): You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way.
Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortune-telling device after even a single card is thrown.
A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used.
Only a character who possesses this feat can use an enhanced deck of cards;
Sorcerer VMC:
A character who chooses sorcerer as her secondary class gains the following secondary class features.
Bloodline: At 1st level, she must select a sorcerer bloodline. She treats her character level as her effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers.
Bloodline Power: At 3rd level, she gains her bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power.
Twisted Fortune (Sp) At 1st level, you can use your supernatural insight to hijack the fortunes of a single target within 30 feet. For 1 round, the target becomes confused and cannot directly control its actions (Will negates). Once a creature has been affected by twisted fortune, it is immune to the ability's effects for 24 hours. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Cha modifier.
Improved Bloodline Power: At 7th level, she gains her bloodline's 3rd-level bloodline power.
See It Coming (Su) At 3rd level, you gain a +1 luck bonus on the saving throw type of your choice (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). As a full-round action, you can change which saving throw your luck bonus applies to. At 7th level and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level.
Blood Feat: At 11th level, she gains one of her bloodline's feats or Eschew Materials.
Bonus Feats: Alertness, Craft Wondrous Item, Extend Spell, Fortune Teller, Harrowed, Mage's Tattoo, Skill Focus (Knowledge [history]).
Greater Bloodline Power: At 15th level, she gains her bloodline's 9th-level bloodline power.
Invoke the Harrow (Su) At 9th level, you can draw a random harrow card from a complete harrow deck you own as a standard action and channel the aspects of the card into your body. You take on superficial traits featured on the card and gain a +4 enhancement bonus to the ability score associated with the card's suit. You can invoke the harrow for a number of minutes per day equal to your sorcerer level; the duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.
True Bloodline Power: At 19th level, she gains her bloodline's 15th-level bloodline power.
Harrowed Home (Sp) At 15th level, your otherworldly connection is so strong that your subconscious cleaves off a small portion of the Harrowed Realm for use as your own private sanctuary. Your harrowed home is created the first time you use this ability, and is decorated as a garish reflection of your personality. Thereafter, you always visit this same home. You can place a portal to your harrowed home once every 24 hours, but placing a new portal destroys the previous one, and you can not move the entrance while you are inside. As long as you are not in your harrowed home, time ceases to pass for anything and anyone still in your pocket dimension; creatures cannot move, objects do not decay, and everything remains exactly the same as you left it the last time you visited the plane. Time continues as normal whenever you are inside your harrowed home. This ability is otherwise identical to mage's magnificent mansion.
