Creative Director
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Qlippoth or Qliphoth are from Kabala; the word means "husks" (as in a discarded shell, as from a nut or the chaff of wheat) - they are the obstacles to comprehending the Sephiroth.I was not aware it was even a real word. I figured it was just made up somewhere >_>
A large number of our monsters are based on real-world legends, in fact.
Qlippoth or Qliphoth are from Kabala; the word means "husks" (as in a discarded shell, as from a nut or the chaff of wheat) - they are the obstacles to comprehending the Sephiroth.I was not aware it was even a real word. I figured it was just made up somewhere >_>
When it comes to rpgs its quite safe to assume that there is at least 50% chance that any unknown term is borrowed somewhere from mythology, culture, philosophy or just another language. Especially when it comes to monsters, names of supernatural entities and such. Make it 90% when reading old World Of Darkness books. But don't count on it meaning the same as in RL...
What's wrong with BRIAN BLESSED?My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?
I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.
*Not Brian Blessed.
Nothing at all. It's just that no-one would be able to handle the sheer awesomeness that is the BLESSED.
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I'd like to see some more campaign setting focus on Demons, Devils, and Daemons, in the "Here, set your entire campaign in abaddon starting from level 1" kindof way, complete with a bunch of fiendish player races to use. Give us a more fleshed out idea of what the politics of the place are like, and the geography, etc.
Fiends as the centerpiece. Not just antagonists.
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I'd like to see some more campaign setting focus on Demons, Devils, and Daemons, in the "Here, set your entire campaign in abaddon starting from level 1" kindof way, complete with a bunch of fiendish player races to use. Give us a more fleshed out idea of what the politics of the place are like, and the geography, etc.
Fiends as the centerpiece. Not just antagonists.
Too risky. People get worked up when deranged hllibilly ogres are antagonists, imagine the uproar about an AP where "evil is good".
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Isnt there a 3rd Party AP that does that already(Evil, not fiends)?
It would be like a Drow campaign set in Menzoberranzan, or a game of Vampire the Masquerade. Its an urban game, and its about the inter-faction conflict and politics.
Maybe it wouldn't hit a large enough audience. Its the sort of AP I've been wanting since 2006ish.
Isnt there a 3rd Party AP that does that already(Evil, not fiends)?
It would be like a Drow campaign set in Menzoberranzan, or a game of Vampire the Masquerade. Its an urban game, and its about the inter-faction conflict and politics.
Maybe it wouldn't hit a large enough audience. Its the sort of AP I've been wanting since 2006ish.
Regretfully it would have to be third party, probably. The Paizo business model is that AP are their major source of income, if I understand correctly, so they are dependent on AP selling well. The more specific and exotic AP is, the greater risk of it selling only to a small group and greatly reducing income for half a year, or more due to loss of formerly dedicated customers.
Ironically, while I would never ever run such an adventure path, I would view it as a wealth of GM material - as a result I wouldn't be against it.
Then again, I virtually never run any of the adventure paths; they're all just GM resources for me :)
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What's wrong with BRIAN BLESSED?My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?
I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.
*Not Brian Blessed.
You both misspelled his name. It's Always all caps, always an exclaimation point, always a font size larger, always bolded, and always itallicized.
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I'd like to know a bit more about the worshippers of demons, specifically. I mean, they're mentioned a lot, especially the Gorilla Kings and Lamashtu's worshippers, etc. But i mean i kind of want to see what place the cults of, say, Pazuzu, Nocticula, and other less mentioned demon lords have to do in Golarion.Say we went the cults route. Would you want to see entries be something more like my Mammon article in Pathfinder #30, something more like Sean's gods articles we do every few AP volumes, or something else completely?
The God articles, I suppose, since those usually detail common rituals, ceremonies, etc. I was actually thinking more along the lines of what was done in the "Faiths of" line, as in a view of what layworshippers of archfiends would be like, along with their relationships to other religions or cults.
You both misspelled his name. It's Always all caps, always an exclaimation point, always a font size larger, always bolded, and always itallicized.What's wrong with BRIAN BLESSED?My question, is: if we have Qlippoths, can we have Sephirot? In a hypothetical Book of the Blessed*?
I.e., impossible to fully grok aspects of Good.
*Not Brian Blessed.
I am not so sure about italics...
As an avid reader of the Book of the Damned series, I would love to see for each type of the Big 3 D's:
Devils: Devils are my favorite of all fiends. Expand upon The Whore Queens. They are interesting in that they are a part of Hell but are fairly separate from the archdevils. They get about a footnote apiece in Princes of Darkness. Also: The Malebranche.
Demons: Demons are my least favorites of the three. Maybe some more Nascent Demon Lords. Overall, each demon lord got less info than the archdevils and horsemen because of the sheer quantity of demon lords. Maybe some more tidbits on them.
Daemons: The Oinodaemon. We know his origins, but what is her agenda? Does he even have an agenda? What would she do if he were to be unleashed upon the world again?
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Regarding the Oinodaemon, how much of Anthraxus is WoTC-owned IP?
I mean, he's just a sentence or two in the '83 MMII; I don't think anything else was done on him...
If Paizo is allowed to use Anthraxus I'd actually be interested in the Daemons for the first time -- and that'd be cool. Well, that is if Paizo even went with Anthraxus as opposed to something else as the Oinodaemon.
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Fiends as the centerpiece. Not just antagonists.Too risky. People get worked up when deranged hllibilly ogres are antagonists, imagine the uproar about an AP where "evil is good".
Hard to say for certain. White Wolf sure got a hell of a lot of mileage out of making bad guys their protagonists. Got all the way up to second-largest game company, IIRC, and their going to pot had nothing to do with the black-hatted-ness of their decidedly un-PC PCs. And R.A. Salvatore didn't do to shabby for himself, by focusing on a typically NPC 'evil only' race, producing a fair number of best-selling novels set in Menzoberranzan and dealing with it's unkind citizens.
Then again, In Nomine, a game where one could play angels or demons, sank like a stone. The market is a fickle beast.
Regarding the Oinodaemon, how much of Anthraxus is WoTC-owned IP?
I mean, he's just a sentence or two in the '83 MMII; I don't think anything else was done on him...
If Paizo is allowed to use Anthraxus I'd actually be interested in the Daemons for the first time -- and that'd be cool. Well, that is if Paizo even went with Anthraxus as opposed to something else as the Oinodaemon.
The name for starters, and all of the Planescape era details (though Anthraxus was relatively poorly fleshed out by comparison to the other major archfiends in D&D's history). Ed Bonny's Dragon article 'Pox of the Planes' had some neat details.
As far as Paizo's Oinodaemon, I tried to and wanted to go out of my way to avoid just doing a rehash of Anthraxus for obvious reasons (and in fact I was told to avoid that). Plus, the general look that Anthraxus had is rather mirrored in Apollyon's look already (plus he, like Anthraxus, is heavily involved with plague).
Paizo's Oinodaemon is, conceptually speaking, a sort of syncretic mix of Anthraxus/General of Gehenna/baernaloth in terms of its original nature, though obviously now it's pretty much a godlike but powerless buffet for the Four Horsemen. Of course yeah there's a detailed back history, more defined origins, original and possibly even current goals despite its status at present, and of course that lingering question of just what sort of mortal being could have spawned a creature like that in the first place. But those questions might or might not ever be openly answered. The Four are interesting enough on their own, and the aim from the top down (that I agreed with wholly) was that it shouldn't overshadow the Four since they're unquestionably the powers that be in Abaddon.
As far as the demons go, a write-up on the demon lords that are actively involved in various efforts regarding Golarion would be great. Of these, I'd think Deskari would be the prime candidate, and the rest of his forces (Areelu Vorlesh, the Storm King, etc.). You guys have published bits and pieces here and there related to the Worldwound, but there's not a whole lot out there.
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Thanks, Todd -- both a very informative and placating post.
I guess I kinda figured Anthraxus was WoTC's but maybe he had slipped through the IP cracks like Orcus -- well, not totally like Orcus cuz the pig's name is a millennium old, just all the Fluff that makes Orcus Orcus.
After thinking about it, I am STILL interested in the Oinodaemon (Paizo design) despite not liking the Paizo-designed Daemon. I think I have so much emotional investment from childhood in the, er, concept? of the Oinodaemon that I just really look forward to it being fully designed, as Anthraxus or his Paizo incarnation.
Fiends as the centerpiece. Not just antagonists.Too risky. People get worked up when deranged hllibilly ogres are antagonists, imagine the uproar about an AP where "evil is good".
1) Hard to say for certain. White Wolf sure got a hell of a lot of mileage out of making bad guys their protagonists. Got all the way up to second-largest game company, IIRC, and their going to pot had nothing to do with the black-hatted-ness of their decidedly un-PC PCs. And R.A. Salvatore didn't do to shabby for himself, by focusing on a typically NPC 'evil only' race, producing a fair number of best-selling novels set in Menzoberranzan and dealing with it's unkind citizens.
2) Then again, In Nomine, a game where one could play angels or demons, sank like a stone. The market is a fickle beast.
1) if it was done well.
2) Maybe the number of suplements/splatbooks needed to play the game fully was too much. and/or that they slapped pretty much every religions in the face at the same time.
My dream would be to have a hardcover codex with 4-6 pages dedicated to fleshing out every single demon, devil, daemon, abyssal fiend, hell beast, etc., including ones that have been mentioned/used in adventures but haven't appeared in a Pathfinder Bestiary (such as the Ashmede Devil from Book of Fiends, the Ghalshoaton from The Pact Stone Pyramid, and the Nightmare Bats from The Seven Swords of Sin). Since that is probably not going to happen, I would vote for a D______ Revisited-style book, but one that mixed things up, so it didn't just cover the same demons or devils that we have seen for the last 25+ years.
I wouldn't be averse to detailed location books for areas of Hell, the Abyss, and Abaddon, though I would really want customized encounter tables for each location (not just each plane, but say Hell would have different encounter tables for Avernus than in would for Erebus).
Regardless of the product, it still can't hurt to introduce new fiends: demons of ice or cold, randomly generated demons, aquatic devils, daemons based on some strange and/or alien manner of death, fiends born from the souls of non-humanoids/aliens, and so on.
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I just read and enjoyed the Barbatos article in the new Kobold Quarterly issue. I recommend it for anyone looking for some more info on the Archdevil.
I also vote for its format for future entries for archfiends. I like the Mammon article and god articles too, and I wouldn't mind seeing their formats either, but I think the 'corruptions' section and some of the others fit uniquely well for archfiends.
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I'd like to know a bit more about the worshippers of demons, specifically. I mean, they're mentioned a lot, especially the Gorilla Kings and Lamashtu's worshippers, etc. But i mean i kind of want to see what place the cults of, say, Pazuzu, Nocticula, and other less mentioned demon lords have to do in Golarion.Say we went the cults route. Would you want to see entries be something more like my Mammon article in Pathfinder #30, something more like Sean's gods articles we do every few AP volumes, or something else completely?
Hey, now that Kobold Quartery #22 is out I can say what a good idea I think this Cults of the Damned idea is. So good, in fact, that when Wolfgang mentioned doing a series on the archdevils - I assumed partially in homage to Dragon magazine's awesome "Politics of Hell" "New Denizens of Devildom" and "The Nine Hells" articles - I was ALL ABOUT IT. Now KQ#22 is out, along with the first in the series: "Barbatos: Gatekeeper of Golarion's Hell." The article focuses a good deal on Barbatos, a bit on Avernus, but really hones in on his cult, a new devil servant, and a new type of fiendish hazard debuted (essentially diabolical haunts). So if you like Golarion's devils, Barbatos, cults, and twisted plots, check it out! (It's $9 and even beyond this it's chocked full of awesome, what's stopping you?) Hope you all dig it!
As for what this bodes for more cults in Golarion and official Pathfinder products, well... we'll see.
Now back to work on the second entry: Dispater.
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Ooh, Dispater intrigues me! He and Mephistopheles have always been my favorites, although Geryon and Moloch have some interesting twists.
I've always liked how some entities seem to bend a little more in one direction or the other, and that Dispater, in particular, seemed to be the most 'lawful' of the LE Archdevils, while others, like Mephistopheles, seemed to find rules and laws and ethics inconvenient and something to work around, being more interested in the 'evil' side of LE.
Ooh, Dispater intrigues me! He and Mephistopheles have always been my favorites, although Geryon and Moloch have some interesting twists.
I've always liked how some entities seem to bend a little more in one direction or the other, and that Dispater, in particular, seemed to be the most 'lawful' of the LE Archdevils, while others, like Mephistopheles, seemed to find rules and laws and ethics inconvenient and something to work around, being more interested in the 'evil' side of LE.
Yeah. Dispater is my favorite. That's why he's on the cover of BotD #1. ;)
1. His relationship with his son is going to be interesting to see explored to say the least.
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Also pulling for a Doloras article down the line, and not just because of the possible 19th-century poetry/Lady of Pain reference or also-possible ZK/kyton connections.
(it was a very cool reference, whether it was just to the one or both :) )
Damn, calling me out on all my name drops/side references! Good show!
Stuff with 6 HD or less that can be summoned via lesser planar binding. Scouts, bruisers, things that low- to mid-level PCs can comfortably face and can reasonably be summoned by someone below 11th level.What tonyz said.
6 HD or less thuggish deformed footsoldier demons trapped in a state of perpetual rage. 6 HD or less devil legionnaires, marching rank and file, like a well-oiled machine of infernal destruction.
Stuff focusing on the Law and Chaos aspects of devils and demons, and not just the Evil. Demons with powers like confusion, baleful polymorph and freedom of action, as they warp reality (and minds) with their presence. Devils with powers to interdict, restrain or control others like command, hold monster or dimensional anchor.
Rules for possession, mentioned upthread, also sound useful.
I second all of this. The suggestion for "Fiend Cults of Golarion" also sounds great.
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I like the Manifestations. These are something I'd like to see more of, both for other archfiends, and also for deities. I could even see powerful good or neutral entities getting something similar (only requiring negative energy to destroy in the case of good ones).
Moloch and Dispater are probably the two Archdevils whose articles I'm looking forward to the most, though I have interest in all of them.
Also pulling for a Doloras article down the line, and not just because of the possible 19th-century poetry/Lady of Pain reference or also-possible ZK/kyton connections.
Articles on the Whore Queens would be an excellent continuation of the series after the Archdevils are covered.
I would also be interested in hearing more about Typhon and other former Archdevils (either in the form of an article or if you just have general information that you're willing to post here).
I love Dispater, too. Is it just me, or is he the least evil of the archdevils?
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I love Dispater, too. Is it just me, or is he the least evil of the archdevils?
He feels 'more lawful' than the rest, which makes his 'evil' feel less like the mustachio-twirling caricature that Mephistopheles can come across as, IMO. For all that, he's pitiless and cold and hard as iron, and considers enslaving the weak and working them to death 'good business,' so he's hardly a soft touch...
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I love Dispater, too. Is it just me, or is he the least evil of the archdevils?He feels 'more lawful' than the rest, which makes his 'evil' feel less like the mustachio-twirling caricature that Mephistopheles can come across as, IMO. For all that, he's pitiless and cold and hard as iron, and considers enslaving the weak and working them to death 'good business,' so he's hardly a soft touch...
"So you are telling me that you cannot maintain the walls of your district due to a lack of building material. This has left your slaves with nothing to do. It seems then that you have a surplus of laborers. The logical conclusion is to begin converting the slaves to material until a practical ratio is attained. Take your best slaves aside and have the rest crushed into bricks. Let the slaves that will be spared for the moment witness the process for morale. Oh, and have the one in charge of inventory handling in your district placed in the wall as well.
Oh, he is your nephew? My condolences. The order stands. This city is more important than any one devil and certainly more than any one half-breed. It is more important than me. The city is all. And it must be maintained. Now do you part or be made a part of it. That is your only choice."
More demon lords and arch-evils (Orcus, Demogorgon, Mephistopheles, Beelzebub, etc.). Maybe some "Warhammer" inspired daemons.
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Okay, finally got to read the Dispater article in Kobold Quarterly #23.
HOT DAMN.
For those that like their LE classy, your ship just came in. The domains for Dispater's current and previous wives were an unexpected bonus too, as was seeing how a lot of those fallen agnels that didn't become erinyes got "fixed up".
Totally called it on the bricks! :D
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Just got a chance to read the article on Barbatos and I just have to applaud the work, excellent job. It really manages to put the lord of the 1st into perspective in a way I didn't feel we got in princes of darkness especially in terms of his cults and how he corrupts mortals. I will say that the bits about him proxy'ing the souls of the dead into more corrupted souls has got my mind all a whirl lol.
Those are probably the best articles I've read about planar powers.