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Ghouls. Doesn't help that they're my brother's favorite monster (and he's my DM).
Bodaks. I have a healthy dislike of those things.
TPK, and it was theoretically a APL-1 encounter.
All this talk of incorps - doesn't anyone use ghost touch weapons in these games?
==Aelryinth
Demiliches. At will Wail of the Banshee just makes me sad and Death Ward doesn't even make you immune to that any more.
Stirges. A bunch of them suck. Pun intended.
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We did a Fast Zombie Athach (Sp?) and according to the chart it should've been CR(our level +2) But it rocked our world to the point that the DM was questioning the Beastiary and was prepared to intervene. Thankfully our Tetsubo happy fighter critted him into oblivion and we limped on our merry way!
...And that's the story of how I became a Paladin...
Demiliches. At will Wail of the Banshee just makes me sad and Death Ward doesn't even make you immune to that any more.
A net with a Silence spell cast on it pretty much shuts that down, or am I missing something? They've got a Str score of like 6.
And as for Ghost Touch, aren't there alchemical tinctures for it, just like for silver and cold iron and stuff? I know there's a really kickass elixir that made the 'recommended' list of the Pathfinder guy they had on the blog a few weeks back, from the Serpent's Skull AP.
I'm just looking at stuff and trying to find reasonable ways to kill them. I know shadows are vulnerable to positive channeling, and presumably CLW wands as well...
==Aelryinth
We did a Fast Zombie Athach (Sp?) and according to the chart it should've been CR(our level +2) But it rocked our world to the point that the DM was questioning the Beastiary and was prepared to intervene. Thankfully our Tetsubo happy fighter critted him into oblivion and we limped on our merry way!
...And that's the story of how I became a Paladin...
You can really, really abuse CR levels with templates of zombies, especially as the zombie monsters gain hit dice.
==Aelryinth
Shining children are insanely powerful. But I really hate anything with level/ability drain or damage, disease and poison sucks too. Anything incorporal puts the hurt on a party when they are not expecting it. Most dragons seem to be tough for their CR as well.
Le martes, dragons are intentionally designed to be the toughest creatures for their CR. If you're facing a dragon, it's supposed to be tough!
==Aelryinth
Demiliches. At will Wail of the Banshee just makes me sad and Death Ward doesn't even make you immune to that any more.A net with a Silence spell cast on it pretty much shuts that down, or am I missing something? They've got a Str score of like 6.
Well, first of all not everyone carries around nets and silence spells on the off chance they'll fight a particular type of enemy. I realize at higher levels the costs for many countermeasures are relatively cheap, but not all players have in depth knowledge of every bestiary creature and obscure equipment/magic interactions.
Second, it is somewhat debatable that the net trick would automatically work; as a DM I typically count any creature in a magic silence area an "unwilling creature" that gets a will save. The demilich also has magic immunity, which arguably would make it immune to silence. They can also use telekinesis to move the net, and their devour soul is an instant kill that doesn't require sound.
1) aling weapon is a second level spell, so 300 gp for the oil.Yes, I forgot it was 2nd level. My mistake. I was thinking I saw it on the cleric list at 1st.
You must have been thinking of Oil of Bless Weapon, a highly useful 50gp item (assuming your GM believes in the existence of paladins who have devoted their lives to supplying potion shops).
i think a high level githyanki is deadly
Banshee.
Oh, if you have warning that you're going to deal with one, it's okay, you can get death wards prepped or on scrolls ahead of time. But if your GM thought "CR13, seems like a level-appropriate encounter for a 13th-level party" and has it come through the walls when you had no reason to expect a meeting with undead, well.
The wizard and rogue failed the DC 23 Fort save and died right off. The 14d6 attacks made at +26 against touch AC are whittling down the fighter fast, and stealing his actions every time he fails the fear save. The cleric could just keep healing the fighter, but the fighter isn't doing any damage; the cleric's damage options all run into the pesky problem that the banshee is incorporeal. And the cleric's ghostbane dirge isn't going to fix that; the Will save on it is DC 19, and the banshee has a Will save of +18.
Hello, TPK.
A Linnorm against an unprepared group must also be nightmare
Demiliches. At will Wail of the Banshee just makes me sad and Death Ward doesn't even make you immune to that any more.A net with a Silence spell cast on it pretty much shuts that down, or am I missing something? They've got a Str score of like 6.Well, first of all not everyone carries around nets and silence spells on the off chance they'll fight a particular type of enemy. I realize at higher levels the costs for many countermeasures are relatively cheap, but not all players have in depth knowledge of every bestiary creature and obscure equipment/magic interactions.
Second, it is somewhat debatable that the net trick would automatically work; as a DM I typically count any creature in a magic silence area an "unwilling creature" that gets a will save. The demilich also has magic immunity, which arguably would make it immune to silence. They can also use telekinesis to move the net, and their devour soul is an instant kill that doesn't require sound.
You don't get a save for being in a Silence spell...you get a save if someone attempts to cast the silence spell on you. Make the save, and it's centered somewhere off to the side, it still comes up.
And I specificially said Silence on the NET. Gods, trying to land a spell on a demilich? Riiiight.
The trap the soul can be prevented by death wards, and at the level you encounter them, you better have it.
banshees I can agree with...incorps with that level of damage are incredibly nasty for their CR. But it still makes me wonder why more parties aren't prepared for incorps.
Derghos. Mmm. Infinitely repeatable DC 20 Feebleminds as an AoE. Gotta love them.
==Aelryinth
RAW, death ward doesn't work against trap the soul.
You don't get a save for being in a Silence spell...you get a save if someone attempts to cast the silence spell on you. Make the save, and it's centered somewhere off to the side, it still comes up.
And I specificially said Silence on the NET. Gods, trying to land a spell on a demilich? Riiiight.
I'm quite aware you said on the net. As a DM, I would argue that its magic immunity makes it immune to silence: it's immune to any spell that is affected by spell resistance, and Silence does say SR: Yes. It's very possible to argue that it doesn't work that way, of course, since there are limits to how SR works with it, but the demilich's magic immunity does say any spell that allows for spell resistance.
And no, Death Ward doesn't make you immune to Devour Soul.
Edit: It does give you immunity to the Negative Levels if you succeed on the save, but if you fail, you're dead, regardless of having Death Ward or not.
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Derghodaemons.
Yeah those are bad, stupid con rend. I've been running shatterred star and find that the Seugathi. The ability to confuse everyone and then control that confusion at the level their save is at is deadly. And since saving doesn't grant you imunity...
And actually, now that I think about it, most nets won't even work on a demilich, since they aren't effective against targets over 1 size difference away.
So I'm going to stand by demiliches being one of the toughest opponents for their CR. There might be really specific ways to get an advantage (e.x. two party members winning initiative, one being a cleric with silence and the other being a small size user with a net handy), but they can be exceptionally deadly when thrown against the party if their will/fortitude saves aren't quite enough.
Le martes, dragons are intentionally designed to be the toughest creatures for their CR. If you're facing a dragon, it's supposed to be tough!
==Aelryinth
It was more of a statement than a complaint. :)
And actually, now that I think about it, most nets won't even work on a demilich, since they aren't effective against targets over 1 size difference away.
So I'm going to stand by demiliches being one of the toughest opponents for their CR. There might be really specific ways to get an advantage (e.x. two party members winning initiative, one being a cleric with silence and the other being a small size user with a net handy), but they can be exceptionally deadly when thrown against the party if their will/fortitude saves aren't quite enough.
Demiliches strike me as one of those rare circumstances for an arcane archer to shine (imbue arrow + antimagic field)
You don't get a save for being in a Silence spell...you get a save if someone attempts to cast the silence spell on you. Make the save, and it's centered somewhere off to the side, it still comes up.
And I specificially said Silence on the NET. Gods, trying to land a spell on a demilich? Riiiight.
I'm quite aware you said on the net. As a DM, I would argue that its magic immunity makes it immune to silence: it's immune to any spell that is affected by spell resistance, and Silence does say SR: Yes. It's very possible to argue that it doesn't work that way, of course, since there are limits to how SR works with it, but the demilich's magic immunity does say any spell that allows for spell resistance.
And no, Death Ward doesn't make you immune to Devour Soul.
Edit: It does give you immunity to the Negative Levels if you succeed on the save, but if you fail, you're dead, regardless of having Death Ward or not.
Magic immunity isn't going to affect or be affected by a silence spell at all. the silence covers an area...if it's immune to spell resistance, that means you can't successfully target it, and it can be moved out of the AoE, nothing more. Or, to put it another way, I put the silence up right in front of it...there's no save against that effect. If it chooses to move into it, it's going to get silenced.
Nets can be made that will trap any size of a foe. While you wouldn't use a pixie-catcher to snag an ogre, you could certainly make a net with weave tight enough to catch a human skull AND a normal humanoid.
==Aelryinth
Demiliches strike me as one of those rare circumstances for an arcane archer to shine (imbue arrow + antimagic field)And actually, now that I think about it, most nets won't even work on a demilich, since they aren't effective against targets over 1 size difference away.
So I'm going to stand by demiliches being one of the toughest opponents for their CR. There might be really specific ways to get an advantage (e.x. two party members winning initiative, one being a cleric with silence and the other being a small size user with a net handy), but they can be exceptionally deadly when thrown against the party if their will/fortitude saves aren't quite enough.
How would this work? I wasn't aware that you could transfer emnations centered on you via the arrow. Doesn't a transferred spell have to be able to target others?
==Aelryinth
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Shadows are a nightmare. I have a DM that likes shadows to reach thru the walls to touch people. Ugh.
Also, anything with poison at lvls 1-3. Module 1 of Serpents Skull, I'm looking at you...
Oh, and owlbears. I have a healthy distrust of those after a DM tossed 6 dire versions at our party of 5 lvl 10 PC's. TPK'd in 4 rounds. Le sigh..
They do show up elsewhere too!Holy spit! Suddenly I'm glad that I'm taking a hiatus from PFS play...My new favourite "tough" monster has to be a leech swarm. I've had these thrown at my group several times in Pathfinder Society scenarios in the last month, and they are tough! At CR 4, they have auto-hit 2d6 damage, plus 1d3 STR & CON damage, plus poison for 1d4 DEX damage, plus distraction. The only thing that makes them manageable is that they only move 5'.The poison is actually Dex Drain
As of last night, I now know what you mean...
Our GM had pity on us, fortunately.
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Try a crab swarm....close to 40 hp of no physical weapon damage....hard to come up with that much damage in Area of Effect stuff at the appropriate level (or a level or 2 below). RUN AWAY!!!Swarms. I friggin hate fighting swarms.I feel dirty not warning my players of the existence of creatures that are immune to all physical weapons, but they've played enough Pathfinder now to know the danger such things present. Against a party without area of effects or even alchemist fire, a lowly spider swarm can toast them if they're in an area they can't move quicker than it. (like while climbing or in lots of difficult terrain.).
Funny you say that, I had a party go bounty hunt a giant crab, before the crab came out of the water, they had to contend with a crab swarm for 1d4 +1 rounds, ended up being like 4 or 5 rounds. They were damaging the crab swarm, but barely. Then the giant crab came out and one hit killed the tank. Just chopped him in half. Everyone was stunned.
One monster I found that nearly wiped a party out was a medium skeleton in full-plate with a greatsword. The party had a Paladin to boot, and just pitted them up against 2 of those. The Paladin would have died if not for using all of his lay on hands on himself.
Also very overlooked for its CR...the Manticore. Those spikes nearly wiped a party of 4 3rd levels.
All monsters are the stuff of nightmare in the hands of the right DM.
Take the humble KOBOLD for instance...
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Been reading some of the lists people made, and I have to say I am unimpressed with most.
None o' that spooks the heck out of me.
The only things that I feared were level drainers, stat drainers (not damage, DRAIN), and rust monsters if I was running a warrior. Now, normally I planned for things like that, since I ensured my armor and weapons were made of special metals and enchanted properly.
What got me running? Easy. I recall back when, there was this thing called a Deep Dragon. The thing was already a frickin dragon, which meant unless you were prepared you were toast. But what got me was the fact that it's breath weapon did EXPERIENCE LEVEL DRAIN with each shot! And in close quarters, everyone would get hit....
That, and I recall running a Paladin, being courageous and all back in 2nd ed, and suddenly encountering a djinn at 1st-2nd level when the damned Dwarf Rogue accidentally summoned it via a found item. Took one look, shook a finger at it, said "Right!" Immediately about faced, picked up the female wizard whose player was absent, threw her over my shoulder, and beat feet! When another player objected that I was running away and Paladins couldn't do that, I said, "I am LG and a Paladin, but I am NOT stupid or suicidal!"
Any creature that has that annoying incorporeal quality and subtype:
- Can't be harmed by nonmagical weapons.
- Take only half damage from magical weapons and spells and non-damaging spells only have a 50% chance of working.
- Immune to critical hits and precision-based damage unless it's a ghost touch weapon, provided it's NOT an Undead-type creature.
- Can pass through pretty much everything that is not a force effect.
- ALL attacks are touch attacks.
- Undetectable via sound.
- Most are Undead-type creatures, complete with resistance, ability drain or damage, possession and yadayadayada.
The only weakness that a general incorporeal creature has is:
- Take full damage from force effects and weapons with the ghost touch enhancement.
- Standard Undead weaknesses, provided it's an Undead in the first place.
Finally, rules are kinda off about certain details:
- "A ghost retains all the special attacks of the base creature, but any relying on physical contact do not function." I keep reading that a breath weapon used by a ghost dragon would not affect corporeal creatures. They should really dress a list of what special attacks can and can't be used by ghosts or any other incorporeal creature for that mater.
- I see this: "The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes." then I see this: "It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB.". If a ghost picks up a ghost touch weapon, what score does it use in place of its non-existant Strength? Its Dexterity? Its Charisma?
Any creature that has that annoying incorporeal quality and subtype:
The only weakness that a general incorporeal creature has is:
- Take full damage from force effects and weapons with the ghost touch enhancement.
- Standard Undead weaknesses, provided it's an Undead in the first place.
Welp, if I wanted to ensure that no matter what, my warrior could handle it, I'd take a +5 Ghost Touch, Transformative, Holy (most beasties are Evil), Limning, Impervious, Menacing weapon.
That pretty much takes care of your incorporeal beasties, and any sort of DR or magical concealment, even does more damage vs evil and stops destruction of the weapon via special ability.
Those negative levels/level drain? You are hosed. Only certain things can protect you, and you have to have them ready all the time.
Those negative levels/level drain? You are hosed. Only certain things can protect you, and you have to have them ready all the time.
It's usually pretty easy to have someone carrying around a few scrolls of Death Ward, giving 100% immunity to negative levels.
I could at any time say "roll a will save." during our game and my players will ask things like "how long has it been cents the last town?" in fear that they about to deal with the Wendigo. Also they have fear tree stumps because of Wolf-in-Sheep’s-Clothing. Because i believe in encounters you must run from.
Incorrect. The minimum spell and caster level for resist energy are both 1st. The price for magic items such as potions, scrolls, etc, is based on lowest possible caster level. That makes resist energy AND delay poison 50 gp potions/oils. You may thank your friendly neighborhood Ranger for having it on their spell list as a 1st level spell. Also Paladins for the 50 gp lesser restorations.
Incorrect on your incorrect. You are overlooking the fundamental fact of potion brewing: Brew Potion requires caster level 3rd. It is actually impossible to have a potion of resist energy cost only 50 gp, as the minimum possible caster level for any potion is 3rd due to the prerequisite for the crafting feat being CL 3rd. It's a fundamental flaw with the potion table that no-one notices, including apparently the designers.
Incorrect. The minimum spell and caster level for resist energy are both 1st. The price for magic items such as potions, scrolls, etc, is based on lowest possible caster level. That makes resist energy AND delay poison 50 gp potions/oils. You may thank your friendly neighborhood Ranger for having it on their spell list as a 1st level spell. Also Paladins for the 50 gp lesser restorations.Incorrect on your incorrect. You are overlooking the fundamental fact of potion brewing: Brew Potion requires caster level 3rd. It is actually impossible to have a potion of resist energy cost only 50 gp, as the minimum possible caster level for any potion is 3rd due to the prerequisite for the crafting feat being CL 3rd. It's a fundamental flaw with the potion table that no-one notices, including apparently the designers.
While I totally disagree with Ashiel's stance on this in general, what you say is false: you don't have to craft an item at your current caster level. You can craft it at a lower caster level:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Magic-Item-Crafting-5-5-1 0-
Incorrect. The minimum spell and caster level for resist energy are both 1st. The price for magic items such as potions, scrolls, etc, is based on lowest possible caster level. That makes resist energy AND delay poison 50 gp potions/oils. You may thank your friendly neighborhood Ranger for having it on their spell list as a 1st level spell. Also Paladins for the 50 gp lesser restorations.Incorrect on your incorrect. You are overlooking the fundamental fact of potion brewing: Brew Potion requires caster level 3rd. It is actually impossible to have a potion of resist energy cost only 50 gp, as the minimum possible caster level for any potion is 3rd due to the prerequisite for the crafting feat being CL 3rd. It's a fundamental flaw with the potion table that no-one notices, including apparently the designers.While I totally disagree with Ashiel's stance on this in general, what you say is false: you don't have to craft an item at your current caster level. You can craft it at a lower caster level:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Magic-Item-Crafting-5-5-1 0-
Right answer
Rust Monster - Run!
Rust Monster + other monsters tends to = a*!!@&! DM.
One of the nastiest encounters I can remember running was in 3.5 with Savage Tide. Anyone remember the swarm of fiendish baboons? I forget where they came in...think the fourth adventure. Anyway, one of the characters (thief/assassin type) wound up dropping into the room with them solo, and then running for his life as the rest of the party scurried to rescue him. I think half the party died in the process. Classic example of something written into an AP that was supposed to not be that big of a deal - assuming everyone walked into the room at the same time like a "typical" encounter.
Plenty of aquatic encounters in enclosed spaces are deadly
Vampiric Fey are even Scarier. Vampiric Nymph AntiPaladin = TPK.