Is "Per Day" actually "Per 8 hours" or "Per 24 hours"?

[shallowsoul]

Pretty much what the title says.

[Hitdice]

I assume you're asking whether the 15 minute workday requires a slow dissolve through 8 or 24 hours. I'd have to say 24, or at least until midnight/dawn/whatever hour of reset the party has settled on.

[Cheapy]

Depends on how the GM's world is set up, but it's almost always 24 hours.

Since, you know, that's what a day is.

[Chef's Slaad]

I believe a 'day' is the period between two rests. A 4th level druid could wild shape and shift back for a combat, immediately rest for 8 hours and then wild shape again. However, he cannot wild shape again until he has rested for 8 hours again.

edit - yeah, what hitdice said

[darth_borehd]

24 hours.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Niether. A day begins at dawn. If you use the power an hour before dawn, then the first rays an hour later free the excess energies. If you do them 15 minutes after dawn, you have to wait 23 hours. This is part of the onus of the abilities

[shallowsoul]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

Niether. A day begins at dawn. If you use the power an hour before dawn, then the first rays an hour later free the excess energies. If you do them 15 minutes after dawn, you have to wait 23 hours. This is part of the onus of the abilities

I'm 99.9% sure this isn't correct.

[Ragnarok Aeon]

I'm weird in the sense that all my actual days begin at 4:00 AM. Before 4, it's late, after 4 it's become early.

[Mergy]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

Niether. A day begins at dawn. If you use the power an hour before dawn, then the first rays an hour later free the excess energies. If you do them 15 minutes after dawn, you have to wait 23 hours. This is part of the onus of the abilities

I believe this applies to divine casters only.

[Toadkiller Dog]

Not all divine casters pray for spells at dawn.

[Mojorat]

the dawn thing is on correct insofar as getting spells back. as far as I know any spell slots used less than 8 hrs prior to dawn using the cleric example would still be unavailable.

[Mage Evolving]

I had always assumed it was every 24 hours. Meaning that you could not memorize your spell list more than once in a 24 hour period and that memorizing your spell book required an 8 hour period of rest before you can memorize again. (photosynthesis and appropriate rings excluded)

[Mergy]

Toadkiller Dog wrote:

Not all divine casters pray for spells at dawn.

True. However, they do have the option of casting all their spells right before the regular point when they pray again, as far as I know.

[Joana]

Mergy wrote:

Toadkiller Dog wrote:

Not all divine casters pray for spells at dawn.

True. However, they do have the option of casting all their spells right before the regular point when they pray again, as far as I know.

Nope, and neither can arcanists, by RAW.

PRD>Magic>Divine Spells wrote:

Recent Casting Limit: As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.

Any spells cast during the 8 hours before spell preparation, you can't refill their spell slots. This affects divine casters more than arcane, as divine casters have to prepare spells at the same time every day, while wizards can just wait another 8 hours to prepare spells.

[Mergy]

Ah, true. Fair enough, divine casters are even more boned.

[James Jacobs]

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

[Rubia]

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

And how long is an "hour"?

<ducks> :)

[Ragnarok Aeon]

Rubia wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

And how long is an "hour"?

<ducks> :)

600 rounds

[Fake Healer]

Ragnarok Aeon wrote:

Rubia wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

And how long is an "hour"?

<ducks> :)

600 rounds

1st edition rounds or more recent rounds?

[/endsnark]

[Squeatus]

Fake Healer wrote:

Ragnarok Aeon wrote:

Rubia wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

And how long is an "hour"?

<ducks> :)

600 rounds

1st edition rounds or more recent rounds?

[/endsnark]

That's just 60 turns, right?

[Tomppa]

I think it party depends on what is being used/done once per day.
For example, demonic obsession (or whatever it is called) requires to be performed daily, and the effects last for a whole day. Depends on the DM of course, but I think a more accurate reading is that "as long as you do this once each day, whatever the time, it's continuous benefit" instead of "if you did this yesterday morning, and plan to do it again this evening, you'll be without the benefits for a whole 12 hours".

Then again, for example, spells work a bit funnily as well...
Example: Endure elements. As far as the character casts it once each day, never mind the actual time, I'd be willing to keep it up 24/7 instead of having "gaps" in the duration

[wraithstrike]

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

[Cpt. Caboodle]

wraithstrike wrote:

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Well, how long is a sad day, then?

[Finn Kveldulfr]

Tomppa wrote:

I think it party depends on what is being used/done once per day.

For example, demonic obsession (or whatever it is called) requires to be performed daily, and the effects last for a whole day. Depends on the DM of course, but I think a more accurate reading is that "as long as you do this once each day, whatever the time, it's continuous benefit" instead of "if you did this yesterday morning, and plan to do it again this evening, you'll be without the benefits for a whole 12 hours".

Then again, for example, spells work a bit funnily as well...
Example: Endure elements. As far as the character casts it once each day, never mind the actual time, I'd be willing to keep it up 24/7 instead of having "gaps" in the duration

Seems like that should be accepted as RAI and applied that way, even if it's not strictly RAW, IMO.

[shallowsoul]

wraithstrike wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Nobody is talking about real life here. I know a 'day' is 24 hours but in D&D/Pathfinder a day can be seen as 8 hours later. Sometimes it's not really clear to be honest. Being a smartass has no place here.

[Finn Kveldulfr]

shallowsoul wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Nobody is talking about real life here. I know a 'day' is 24 hours but in D&D/Pathfinder a day can be seen as 8 hours later. Sometimes it's not really clear to be honest. Being a smartass has no place here.

Nonsense. Being a smartass (handled properly, and not taken too far) always has a place on the internet. :P

Back to the serious discussion...
A day is 24 hours, and as far as spell use and recovery goes-- "spells per day" is what you get in every 24 hour period (with the caveat that, depending on class, you may also need to rest before you prepare your spells)-- not "8 hours later". Seems like there's been enough rules cited by others and a few semi-official folks dropping by to reinforce that fact rather well. On this one-- if you want to rule it differently in your game, go for it-- but you are 'house-ruling' it if you do; and (IMO) violating RAI, not just RAW, in doing so.

[ShadowcatX]

Chef's Slaad wrote:

I believe a 'day' is the period between two rests. A 4th level druid could wild shape and shift back for a combat, immediately rest for 8 hours and then wild shape again. However, he cannot wild shape again until he has rested for 8 hours again.

This is how I handle it. I'm not going to say "you cast this spell at the end of your work day so you can't memorize anything in its slot until the end of your work day today."

I am, however, going to only allow one rest period per 24 hours.

[wraithstrike]

Cpt. Caboodle wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Well, how long is a sad day, then?

It feels like 36 hours to me, but I think it is only 24. :)

[wraithstrike]

shallowsoul wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Nobody is talking about real life here. I know a 'day' is 24 hours but in D&D/Pathfinder a day can be seen as 8 hours later. Sometimes it's not really clear to be honest. Being a smartass has no place here.

I was not being a smartass.

8 hours has never been day barring a trip to some plane with a strange time flow or GM houserules.

[Derwalt]

Cpt. Caboodle wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

Well, how long is a sad day, then?

Thank you! :D

[Kthulhu]

Eighit hours is a day....if that's the case for the planet you happen to be on. But by some strange coincidence, the vast majority of campaigns seem to occur on planets that share quite a few traits with Earth, to include (but not limited to):

24 hours per day
~365 days per year
~9.8 m/s^2 gravity

[Ragnarok Aeon]

Kthulhu wrote:

Eighit hours is a day....if that's the case for the planet you happen to be on. But by some strange coincidence, the vast majority of campaigns seem to occur on planets that share quite a few traits with Earth, to include (but not limited to):

24 hours per day
~365 days per year
~9.8 m/s^2 gravity

I don't know about that last one. I've seen way too much that would argue with it even if you aren't involving spells.

[Hitdice]

Actually, now that I've had time to let the question stew for a bit, "per day" in terms of daily use powers such as wild shape become an interesting thought problem. If you expend your uses for a given day, do you have to wait till dawn/midnight/daily reset, or 24 hours from time of first daily allotted use?

Look, nerds like D&D, and nerds like algebra; I don't see what the problem is...

[Midnight_Angel]

Kthulhu wrote:

~9.8 m/s^2 gravity

Judging from the... *ahem* assets of females in Golarion art, gravity on that world cannot be any higher than, say, 5.0 m/s^2... *ducks for cover*

[Kthulhu]

Nah. Just judicious use of the cantrip: Bigsby's Supporting Grope

[Ragnarok Aeon]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

~9.8 m/s^2 gravity

Judging from the... *ahem* assets of females in Golarion art, gravity on that world cannot be any higher than, say, 5.0 m/s^2... *ducks for cover*

Perhaps Golarion females are naturally endowed with magic.

[Grumpus]

so lets say i am a 4th level druid (who can wild shape once per day for 4hours).

1.If I wild shape from 3pm-7pm,when can I wild shape again?

3pm the next day?
7pm the next day?
anytime after midnight?
daybreak the next morning?

2. what happens when wild shape carries over from one day to the next (11pm-3am)?

[Ragnarok Aeon]

Grumpus wrote:

so lets say i am a 4th level druid (who can wild shape once per day for 4hours).

1.If I wild shape from 3pm-7pm,when can I wild shape again?

3pm the next day?
7pm the next day?
anytime after midnight?
daybreak the next morning?

2. what happens when wild shape carries over from one day to the next (11pm-3am)?

4am is the new day so all is good ;)

On a more thoughtful note, I'd count the actual casting/activation/etc as when it counts against slots / uses per day. And in my own games, I'd still go with my 4am rule. 4pm if the character is nocturnal. It's basically a circadian rhythm with magic. How someone would rule such a thing (when the new day starts) is dependent on how they flavor the fluff, most just go with the position of the sun.

[FreelanceEvilGenius]

My understanding of the rules is that a day is 24hours. So a Once per day ability can be used once during any 24 hour period regardless of rest. Rest is required for spell recovery but not for Spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, etc...

As for when the ability "Refreshes". I don't think the rules go into great detail. The defualt assumtion I would make would be 24 hours since it was last used.

However I would run it as follows. The player/DM can pic an appropriate time of day that their ability refreshes. Say a druid would refresh his wildshapes at dawn each morning. So he could use all of his wildshape uses one hour before dawn and then get them all back to be used again. However this would mean he when almost 24 hours before dawn without using them and will have to wait another 23+ hours until the next dawn to get them back. If a player was abusing this I would simple time encounters to make it less productive for him or her.

Basically I would just let each player pic an appropriate time for the refresh. But would prefer they stick with things like Midnight, Noon, Dawn, Dusk, etc...something appropriate. Using a set time of day just seems easier to track than....

"What time was it when I turned into the goat?"
"You mean last week at the previous session?"

[Liz Courts]

Moved thread.

[Chef's Slaad]

Grumpus wrote:

so lets say i am a 4th level druid (who can wild shape once per day for 4hours).

1.If I wild shape from 3pm-7pm,when can I wild shape again?

3pm the next day?
7pm the next day?
anytime after midnight?
daybreak the next morning?

2. what happens when wild shape carries over from one day to the next (11pm-3am)?

1) In my game: any time after an 8 hour period of rest (which would be 3am if the party starts to rest at 7pm)

2) again, after 8 hours of rest, the party is good to go. If the party had a midnight mission and rest late (say 4 am), they still have access to their per day abilities after resting (or at noon).

[Fromper]

James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

"Diggstown IS Olivair County!"

</obscure movie quote>

[deinol]

Chef's Slaad wrote:

1) In my game: any time after an 8 hour period of rest (which would be 3am if the party starts to rest at 7pm)

2) again, after 8 hours of rest, the party is good to go. If the party had a midnight mission and rest late (say 4 am), they still have access to their per day abilities after resting (or at noon).

Can you point to a rule that actually supports that conclusion?

PRD wrote:

A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.

So in order to prepare new spells it must:

A) Be the next day.

B) He must have also had 8 hours of sleep and spend 1 hour studying.

You can't ignore one clause and just use the other. If you want to be very strict, it almost sounds like he must get all 8 hours of sleep during the next day. So clearly a Wizard should always go to bed at midnight, wake up, and study his spells to be ready to go at 9AM every morning.

It is certainly unclear when you should reset the day. I think midnight or dawn are logical choices, as long as everyone in the group resets at the same time.

[wraithstrike]

I don't beleive Chef he is saying that is a rule since he said "in my game". I think he does it that way for simplicity.

[Mike Johnson 320]

ok they say creating a item. is it a max of 8 hours in a day you can work on it, or can you work on it for 16hours with two hours down time, with ring of sustenance.

the rule doesn't clarify well enough for me. thought I'd ask.

[concerro]

8 hours a day. The ring allows you to rest, but it does not bypass any "per day" rules.

[Shar Tahl]

We use dawn as the start of the day. No items or forced rest will allow a per day count to reset more than once a day

[Talonhawke]

Don't know about PF but i do know in 3E any ability that had uses per day recharged 24 hours after the first use started. And that wasnt even specified until either the epic level handbook or the Deities and Demigods book one of the two.

My recommendation go with what works best for your games but remember if casters can just nuke and sleep 3 times a day things can get out of hand.

[Shar Tahl]

For charged items, you could always divide the charges by 24, then use that for the charges regained per hour. So it it was 3 times a day, every 8 full hours after a use, it would regain 1 charge.

*EDIT* on second thought, that could be a terrible idea. lol. It would be more indicative of how the power trickles back after it is used

[0gre]

99.5% of the time this isn't an issue.

The other .5% of the time it's the GM's call.