FreelanceEvilGenius's page

71 posts. Alias of Kalyth.


RSS

1 to 50 of 71 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Majuba wrote:

I'm not sure about no surprise round, but regardless, if there is a surprise round (and thus flatfootedness), it's a single attack not iterative when coming out of invis. If it's not a surprise round, no flatfootedness, and only one attack with Dex denied.

So just one sneak attack, unless surprise round and initiative is won.

I though all combatants were flat-footed until they act in the round. So if Rogue was standing next to an orc and suprised the orc (lets say the orc thought he was an ally). He would get one attack on the orc during the suprise round. Then if the rogue also beat the orcs initiative roll he could make a full attacks worth of "Sneak Attacks" because the orc would still be flat-footed as it had not acted yet and therefore would still be denied its dexterity bonus.


Advanced Alchemical Items.

Basically upgraded versions of existing alchemical items require a higher DC to create and costing more money.

I hate how a flask of Alchemist Fire is a cool item at 1st level but suddenly at 10th level there is no use in throwing it at the guards because they will just laught it off.

Concentrated Alchemist Fire (DC: 40, 500gp)
Direct hit: 2d6 fire damage (1d6 the follwing round), 1d6 splash damage (1 point of damage the following round.

Just off the top of my head.

I will also Second Mundane Weapon Modification/Properties.

The following modifications can be add on to any masterwork item when it is created.
Tempered: Increased hardness and hitpoints
Serated/Sharp/Weighted: +1 threat range (not stacking)
Balanced: +1 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively.
Custom Grip: +1 CMD to resist Disarm
Custom Fitted: reduces skill check penalty by 1 for armor.
Polished: resistant to energy damage and corrosion.
etc....


Kolokotroni wrote:
Chobemaster wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:


Certainly you can scale down adventures and enemies but that gets very complicated as you get to higher levels. In some cases just using a lower CR isn't good enough.

Agree, but at higher levels, CR gets wonky anyway, especially if you've got a bunch of splatbooks in play that lead to a bunch of twinked combos not possible when the monster was initially CR'd.

GM gets instant feedback if his encounters are getting too hard. Just start dialing them back if the PC's are getting wiped out by what are intended to be warm-up encounters.

True enough, and it can work, I just prefer replacing the expected abilities with internal ones, and removing the reliance on magic items, without having to rework the whole CR system.

It doesnt really require any reworking of the CR system. Just bump the CR down one or two notches. If thing get a bit to easy bump it up a notch. To hard bump it down. This has to be done anyway in most campaings depending on party composition anyway.


I would aggree with those that suggest a Wisdom of 1 would represent severe mental disability. Even if they had a high intelligence or charisma they would be unable to utilize it. Sever Autism is what springs to mind for me.

They would NOT be easily manipulated. They would actually be pretty much impossible to manipulate as it would be difficult even to get them to dress, eat, use the bathroom.

I used to work at a mental institution and some of the autistic patients actually displayed amazing moments of intelligence but only fleetingly.

A three Wisdom is the basic human minimum. Anything below that falls into the range of animal behavior.

A young child (3-4 years old) might be represented as 3 Wisdom, so where talking 2-3 points LESS than that.

You would understand what things are intellectually but would lack the awareness to link them together. You would see a door knob and know it opens the door but if it was locked your brain may never connect that you need a key even if it is hanging right next to the door. You might just sit there and struggle with the door knob screaming until you noticed a discarded piece of food on the floor and then shove it in your mouth. then maybe stare out the window for a while at nothing perticular as you deficated in your pants.


Others have brought out some of these but here is a list of ideas.

1) Winter: depending on climate 2-3 months of not being able to travel can hack off 1/3 of the year. Other weather conditions can limit travel even futher throught the year. No sailing during the Monsoon season. Floods, etc...

2)Travel Time: You can run a horse full run for a week. Even on horseback or by boat travel without magical assistance takes time. Even with current real world technology driving across stats can take days and that's with eating in the car, taking shifts driving. Travel in PF doesnt have these conveniences. Others cant sleep while while you ride. You have to stop and hunt for food, you can carry some rations but they may not last all the way to the other side of a mountain range. Breaking and setting up camp. Thinking about it I would give at most 8-10 hour of actual travel time per day. (8 hours rest, an hour to set camp and an hour to break camp (breakfast and supper), 1 hour to prepare spells, frequent stops for bathroom breaks, stop for lunch, etc... On foot the average person walks at what 3 miles an hour. My home town is 60 miles from the town I live in. To walk there would take me about 20hours NONSTOP!. Two days if I walked 10 hours a day. If I spent the weekend there and then came back there is a almost a week of time just to visit my family. Horses can go faster for long distance but still can't be pushed forever. Even sailing vessels can take months to cross large oceans and back.

3) Cultural Issues: There are various cultures that will actually pause all major events even wars for religious or cultural celebrations. Furthermore family obligations may require characters to not only travel long distances but also spend time participating in these events. For example if there is a Clan feast that all clan memembers are supposed to attend to honor the ancestors the party members may have to spend a week or two traveling to the characters homeland. A week at the WEEK LONG FEAST and then a week or two traveling back. Nothing has to occur during this time (Descriptive narrative and maybe some roleplaying), but no experience gain for the most part.

4) Red Tape: Red tape can eat up a ton of time. You have to travel to a local duchey to speak to the duke (Travel time) and once you get there find that he has traveled with his family to his summer home and should not be disturbed. Disturbing him before his return could lead to him not assisting the PCs, etc... Or...The party seeks a shaman that holds the ancient stories the PCs need to figure out what ever mystery they are trying to "Scooby Doo". However the Shaman has gone on her vision quest and is catatonic in her spirit lodge for 10 days.

5) R&R: As others have mentioned. If we didnt take weekend off from work how many of us would actually be able to handle the pressure of work and family life? People need downtime. Even if it is only a day or two a month. Two days a month of R&R knocks almost a month of the year.

6) Communication (similar to Red Tape): There are no phones or even mail system. People actually have to travel from place to place to deliver information. Sure there may be a few "Wizard Teleporting Messengers" but not enough to rely upon. Often army units and political descisions are on hold for days as a messenger travels from one region to the other asking X Noble Y question.
So looking at it this way. We can add up how much time is spend on these things throughout the year.

Time devoted in Months
Dead of Winter and weather: 2.5
Travel Time: 2.5
Red Tape: .5
R&R: 1
Cultural Issues: 1

Total time not Adventuring: 7.5 Months.

That leaves only 4.5 months left in the year. Only about 10 hours a day can actually be spent grinding exp.

basically what I trying to say is Nickle and Dime them to Death. It all adds up.

Keep a scratch pad at the table and everytime a day passes in game, make a tic mark. they only have 365 and its their Birthdays.


Also clerics dont HAVE to pic a diety they can follow the ideals of a concept or moral path.

No reason your cleric cant follow the idea/philosophy that Fire is sacred, etc... The cleric can even believe in a Almighty Fire Elemental named Kossuth.

Kossuth was one of my FAVORITE god from Forgotten Realms (tied with Shar).


Fromper wrote:
FreelanceEvilGenius wrote:

I have to agree with the OP post in the fact that I am unhappy with the selection of spells in alot of way.

I generally create themed casters. Say a Storm Mage. Well there is shocking grasp for a first level spells but really melee at 1st level OUCH!!! The next Electricity attack spell that comes to mind is what Lightning bolt a 3rd level spells. So until 5th level im stuck using shocking graps. Sure I can take Admixture school or Elemental spell feat but should I have to spend a Feat or choose an Archetype just so that I can have access to spells that fit my theme.

Sure Direct damage spells are not the most effective combat spells but they are FUN!!! Or at least I think so. I would much prefer to see a mixure of elemental spells (rays/Area of effects and touch attack) at each level.

If not that, why can't Scorching Ray be just "Elemental" Ray and when you learn it you select an energy type and from that point on it is Freezing Ray, Acid Ray, Shocking Ray, etc....

Magical Lineage Trait + Shocking Grasp + Reach Metamagic Feat = Shocking Grasp from 25 feet away as a level 1 spell, or cast it from 100 feet away as a level 2 spell. Is that enough direct damage ranged electricity for you until you pick up lightning bolt as a 3rd level spell?

That's the point I am trying to make. If I want to shoot a Lightning Ray rather than a Scorching Ray i have to either

a) Spend a feat to change the Elemental type and increases the spell level..
b) Take a special archetype that lets me do it.
c) Take a trait and a feat (Magical Lineage + Reach.
d) Spend money and time researching a new spell.

Just so that I can be a lightning themed caster rather than a fire themed. There really is very little mechanical advantage yet it requried mechanical resourses to accomplish. Sure fire is the most resisted but it is also one of the elements that some classic creatures are vulnerable to (trolls, etc..)

My suggestion would be to make a few spells more free form.

As in, Scorching Ray could be Elemental Ray just leave the Fire descriptor off and add the following line at the end.

"There are different version of this spell each using a different element (fire, electricity, cold, acid). Each version inflicts damage based on its enregy type and has the appropriate descriptor. Each version must be learned seperately."

I have always had this as a house rule in my game. As long as the mechanics are sound with the new element I allow any caster to substitute another element when the spell is learned. It is locked from that point.


I have to agree with the OP post in the fact that I am unhappy with the selection of spells in alot of way.

I generally create themed casters. Say a Storm Mage. Well there is shocking grasp for a first level spells but really melee at 1st level OUCH!!! The next Electricity attack spell that comes to mind is what Lightning bolt a 3rd level spells. So until 5th level im stuck using shocking graps. Sure I can take Admixture school or Elemental spell feat but should I have to spend a Feat or choose an Archetype just so that I can have access to spells that fit my theme.

Sure Direct damage spells are not the most effective combat spells but they are FUN!!! Or at least I think so. I would much prefer to see a mixure of elemental spells (rays/Area of effects and touch attack) at each level.

If not that, why can't Scorching Ray be just "Elemental" Ray and when you learn it you select an energy type and from that point on it is Freezing Ray, Acid Ray, Shocking Ray, etc....


I think I have attempted to research spells with most casters I have played (as long as the DM allowed me).

Generally my spell research was to fill in thematic gaps for the characters. Typically I will try to just Re-Flavor spells already printed but when the mechanics just dont fit with the "magical style" I have for the character I get creative.


DM Azure_Zero wrote:

Exp reward is great, but the changes to the EXP system means that no matter what, no PC could catch up to another, unless you gave RP rewards.

A free trait related to their background in a good idea, or they could get one of their weapons or armour as masterwork instead of regular.

And there should be a reward limit or rewarding with diminishing returns,
so one who goes ape does not get a level or two worth of free stuff over everyone else.

I don't know what 3x3x3 means though.

I also dont know what you mean by 3x3x3 ????


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

1) Honestly, it wouldn't hurt if all wizards got all the starting cantrips. The "except from your opposition schools" text is probably a legacy of 3.5, where you couldn't prepare opposition-school spells at all.

2) There's also the possibility of other cantrips, though Paizo tries not to publish any more official cantrips.

Curious as to why Paizo tries not to publish any more official cantrips?


Archaeik wrote:

I would think casting the cantrip from the higher level slot would "lock" it in until your spell reset.

IE. you USED the slot, the spell just happens to be reusABLE

I would agree that it would lock that slot into the cantrip or that is how I would rule it. This is not covered by the rules for spontaneous casting and cantrips.


Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Malfus wrote:
Fine, threatening ghost sound?

Allow a wizard to devote a standard action an unlimited number of times to provide a single flanking square using ghost sound or dancing lights? Heck maybe more people would play rogues. I see this as OK.

At level nine a wizard could quicken this for a quickened, threatening ghost sound... by sacrificing a fifth level spell slot...

Still OK with it. In fact I like it.

My favorite is Reach Touch of Fatigue. A nice solid repeatable debuff. Its no Ray of Enfeeblement but comes close. It could be used "Hypothetically" an unlimited number of times per day. It would require a feat to be able use as opposed to Ray of Enfeeblement.


Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Malfus wrote:
Fine, threatening ghost sound?

Allow a wizard to devote a standard action an unlimited number of times to provide a single flanking square using ghost sound or dancing lights? Heck maybe more people would play rogues. I see this as OK.

At level nine a wizard could quicken this for a quickened, threatening ghost sound... by sacrificing a fifth level spell slot...

Still OK with it. In fact I like it.

I have looked through the cantrips and metamagic feats before looking for a combination that would be broken and really cant find any that is more powerful than a spell of the same level of the spell slot used.

Basically I look at it this way...

If a spell of that level allowed the same effect as a "Once per round for the duration of the spell you may as a standard action do X....." and that spell had a 24 hour duration and stated that the save DC would always be 10+Int Mod, would it be appropriate for a spell of that level. In all most all cases the spell ends up paling in comparison to actual spells of that level.

Example

Icy Stare of Winter
Wizard 4
Range: Personal
Duration: 24 hours
Save: None SR: Yes

For the duration of the spell the caster may use a swift action to fire a beam of cold from his eyes at any target within 25ft +5 feat per two caster levels. This beam requires a range touch attack to hit and inflicts 1d3 points of cold damage.

Basically a Quickened Ray of Frost

This to me in no way compared to ANY 4th level spell as far as power level. I would put it at 3rd maybe even 2nd level. This spell wouldnt even require a feat to use (as a Quickined Cantrip would).


Happler wrote:
Chobemaster wrote:

Freelance, it's not clear to me that the RAW dictate that a 0 level spell impacted by a MMF that requires a higher-level SLOT means that the cantrip is now a higher-level SPELL.

I'm not sure exactly how to follow your reasoning on this. You argue that a 1st level spell in a zero-level slot (hypothetically) would not be repeatable, and I agree.

That seems to be to be an argument that slot is irrelevant. Ergo, a cantrip in any slot is still a cantrip and thus repeatable. Why does this not carry over if the cantrip is in a higher slot b/c it has been metaed?

from what you quoted :
"Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot. "

Ergo, the heightened cantrip operates at its original spell level in all ways, including repeatability.

The only metamagic that actually raises the spells effective level (rather then just the slot requirement) is heighten.

a threatening ghost sound, for example, would be a level 0 spell (for saves etc) that would require a level 1 slot to cast.

And as a 0 Level spell it would still apply the Cantrip Class Ability and would be repeatable per rules as written.

Note: On work computer and the link to the Threatening Metamagic Feat is block. :(


Chobemaster wrote:

Freelance, it's not clear to me that the RAW dictate that a 0 level spell impacted by a MMF that requires a higher-level SLOT means that the cantrip is now a higher-level SPELL.

I'm not sure exactly how to follow your reasoning on this. You argue that a 1st level spell in a zero-level slot (hypothetically) would not be repeatable, and I agree.

That seems to be to be an argument that slot is irrelevant. Ergo, a cantrip in any slot is still a cantrip and thus repeatable. Why does this not carry over if the cantrip is in a higher slot b/c it has been metaed?

from what you quoted :
"Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot. "

Ergo, the heightened cantrip operates at its original spell level in all ways, including repeatability.

The only metamagic feat that I know of that actually changes a spells level is Heighten Spell. Any other metamagic feat used with a cantrip would not change its level. Therefore the spell would still be a 0-level spell and would still fall under the effect of the Cantrip Class ability and as such be repeatable.

If something I posted previous seemed as if I was stating otherwise it was a typo or bad phrasing on my part.


Malfus wrote:
Fine, threatening ghost sound?

Not familiar with the Threatening Metamagic Feat and cant seem to find it in the SRD. What book is it from?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malfus wrote:
How about a heightened, dazing, ray of frost?

Once it is Heightened it is no longer a 0 Level spell (Cantrip) and so would not fall under the rule for 0 level spells.

Per the rules as writen (not saying as Intended) if you prepare a cantrip a higher level spell slot it is still a 0 level spell and is effected by the 0 Level spell (cantrip/osiron) Class Ability of the casters with 0 Level spells. Also as long as the metamagic feat does not change the level of the spell (ie. Heighten Spell) the cantrip technically can be cast an unlimited number of times even if metamagiced.

The reason for this is that the 0 Level Spell Class ability denotes the level of the spell NOT the level of slot it is prepared in. So per the rules as written as long as the spell level is 0 it can be cast an unlimited number of times.

This is not what James Jacob states but it is what is written in the rules. I am not saying James Jacob is wrong. I am simply stating that by a rules as written breakdown his answer is not what is written in the rules. If the Cantrip ability was written refering to the level of the spell slot then he would be correct as it is written. But the ability refers only to the level of the spell regardless of the level of the spell slot used to prepare it.

The relevent rules...

***Cantrip Class Ability***
Cantrips: Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from a prohibited school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below).

***Prepareing Spells****
Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels.

***Metamagic Feats***
Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

The modifications made by these feats only apply to spells cast directly by the feat user. A spellcaster can't use a metamagic feat to alter a spell being cast from a wand, scroll, or other device.

Metamagic feats that eliminate components of a spell don't eliminate the attack of opportunity provoked by casting a spell while threatened. Casting a spell modified by Quicken Spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Metamagic feats cannot be used with all spells. See the specific feat descriptions for the spells that a particular feat can't modify.

The rules are written based on the level of the spell not the level of the spell slot used to prepare it. If there was a feat or ability that allowed a first level spell to be prepared in a 0 level spell slot that would not allow the spell to be cast an unlimited number of times because it is still a 1st level spell. Unless that ability or another ability actually modified the LEVEL of the spell.

So to sum up as long as the spell is still concidered a 0 Level spell the Cantrip Class ability applies to it (PER RULES AS WRITTEN). It is obvious from James Jacobs post that this was not intended but that is what is written.


Just to add some addition info.

Things that we have done with Nondetection.

In one campaign (Intrigue/Mystery/Storyline driven). Once we realized that we didnt know which NPCs to trust. We elected one party "Face", the bard in this case. The bard did all of our interaction with most of the NPCs. We tried to avoid being seen in public with him and and met secretively. We tried our best to keep Non-detection on him at all times until we could afford a Magical Cloak for him. The wizard used almost all of his 3rd level slots and later even 4th level slots keeping Nondetection on him and occasionally on others that might have been comprimised and targeted by the bad guys. We also used Alter Self and Disguise Self repeatedly. It was a bit of a headache for our DM and required bookkeeping to keep track of which NPC knew about which PC. But in the end it save our asses.

Most of my typical group also play Vampire: The Masquerade and that game thrives on "Information is Power". So even games like Pathfinder and D&D we find our characters attacking enemies not physically but through means like dlackmail, resource sabatage and political manipulation.


AlecStorm wrote:
I use this houserule. Spells' DC is 10 + caster level/2 + stat bonus.

Ok you lost me. A bit confused as to what you are refering to?


Hyla wrote:
Gwyrdallan wrote:
zagnabbit wrote:

I'd agree, but I'd be prepared for the DM to say no.

You may have to flex the old debate muscles.
But crane wing only works while in those stances so otherwise this feat does nothing. You would be prepared for a DM to say "No that feat you took doesnt do anything."? Man, you have some rough DMs there.

Note that total defense != fighting defensively. You can make AoOs while fighting defensively and will usually be fighting defensively while using crane style.

My question referred specifically to the total defense option.

The feat does not state that it allows one to ignore the restiction of No AOO when using Full defense. But it does state that when you use Crane Wing to deflect an attack you can make an AoO against the target. I would take it as written and have it do exactly as it says even though it in some regards negates the No AOO rule while Full defense. Many feats are there to allow things normally not allowed in the rules. This would definately not allow you to make noramal AoO when creatures provoke while you are Full Defense but only in the situation the Feat states. Its vague and can be take either way. I would allow it but others might not.


Spellcasting isnt really the primary focus of Paladins and Rangers. They are martial classes and the spell casting is just a little gravy in my opinion. Generally they do end up preparing the same spells every day but so do low level wizards. Heck even high level wizards generally prepare the same spells every day unless they have specific information that X spell might be needed.

I may be wrong but Paladins and Ranger do get the option to leave spell slots unprepared and spend 15 mins later in the day to prepare what ever spell they need. They have full access to all spells on their spell list without the need to learn each one. They have martial capability as well as alot of useful class features. They could leave almost all of their spells unprepare and use those slots for utility spells as needed by taking the 15 minutes when required and it would have verey little impact on their ability to contribute in their primary role (Combat).

If I did allow Paladin/Rangers to spontaneously cast I would limit them severly on the number of spells they had access to. I think I would go with Slots per day + Casting attribute Modifier. So a 5th level paladin would have 1+Charisma Mod "Spells Known". Anything more than that I think would be too powerful and really infringe on the prepared casters.


W E Ray wrote:

Freelance,

In your games do you think making Nondetection a 2 hour/ lvl spell that can be applied to more than one creature or object too powerful for just a 3rd level spell?

In your typical dungeon crawl Nondetection is a bust compared to Fireball, Haste, etc... But alot of spells are situational and depend heavily on the campaign style. Detect Undead is a useless spell in a campaign with no undead in it but in a game centered around undead it becomes even more useful and powerful than higher level spells.

Also I would like to point out that Nondetect does more than just protect from scrying. It protect from Scrying (Clairvoyance, Crystal balls, etc...) from Locate Object and DETECT SPELLS.

Just off the Top of my head that covers; Detect Magic, Detect Evil, Detect Undead, Detect Thoughts, Detect Poison, etc...

Yes those are low level spells but generally those are the ones people rely on. Very few people (in my experience) use a 3rd level spell slot to cast Arcane Sight that they can use once per day and just prepare Detect Magic and assume that will cover most of their "Magic Detection Needs" for the most part it will. So the spell protects you from the bread and butter "Information Gathering" spells.

Again in your typical dungeon crawl not all that useful. However say your trying to prove that an evil baron is behind the plot to kill the king. Well Fireball, Haste, etc... are pretty much useless here. One of the biggest threats the Baron has is not that he can attack the PC and defeat them physically it is that he has the Political power to imprison them have them executed and the like. He also has access to a wizard that serves him and various other resourses. If he finds out the PCs are investigating him they are toast and the gig is up. However slap a Nondetection on the Rogue and he can sneak into the Barons estate without fear of the wizard being able to ID him. Even if his presence is discovered the is far less chance short of capture that anyone will be able to ID him (assuming he uses a mask, invisibility or other procausions are taken).

Divinations are some of the most powerful spells in the game when they are needed. Fireball is awesome but only if you know who your enemy is. If you dont know who your enemy is the Divination spells will make the other schools look pretty useless.

As for what I would change to the spells. My concern with the spell isnt its duration (5 hours minimum) is more than enough for a recon mission or to attend a Grand Ball and not have to worry about having your secrets stolen. Nor am I to concerned with it only effecting one target. Those to me seem like reasonable limitations for its effect. I mean with a longer duration and being able to affect multiple subjects then you end up with a party of UBER-Ninja when it is paired with Invisibility Sphere. My only concern is degree of the protection it offers. Against an equal level caster Nondetection only offers a 75% defense when used on oneself that drops to 50% when used to protect an ally. I just think that sense the spell is so specialized it should provide a more solid defense. Personally if I was going to adjust the spell it would be to increase the Caster Level check DC to penetrate it with divination magic.


I have seen nondetection used many times over the course of playing d&d/pathfinder. Most of my gaming groups though were very much story-driven. With alot of political intrigue, detective work and the like.

Sure Nondetection isnt going to help much to get your party of 4 people into the evil bad guys lair but it sure will help the Rogue sneak in undetected and recon the place.

Like a lot of spell it isn't one you use when your storming the castle its one you use the day before you storm the castle.


Curse of Withered Branches
Target is infertile and unable to have children.

Curse of Ever-Night
The subject can not preceive natural light sources (Sunlight, Stars, Moonlight) at all. They must carry a torch or lantern even during the day to see their surroundings.

Curse of the Lost Art
The subject receives a -10 penalty to any skill or ability check made to persue his/her perfession/craft. A painter would suffer the penalty to all skill checks when painting. A singer to perform checks.

Curse of the Dying Flesh
The character heals at 1/4 the natural rate and magical healing provides only 1/2 its usually benefit.

Curse of the Mundane
The character gains SR: Caster's Level +10 to all beneficial magical effects.


As a suggestion for a name for the race how about

Flederkin (altered from Fledermaus, which is german for Bat)


With the APG and UC Monks are fine in my opinion. I would make a few changes to them though.

1) Full BAB when using unarmed strikes or monk weapons (Not just when flurrying): Solely because the current system is clunky and doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Why am I more accurate when I make 5 attack in one round than when I make 1 attack.

2) Slow Fall: The monk does not need to be next to a wall or surface to use this ability. If the monk is then he can fall twice the distance listed.

3) Increase the efficiency of Wholeness of Body (though I would prefer a feat that increased its effects and allowed its use as a swift action for base effect.

That's pretty much it. All of my other issues with monks were pretty much address or can be worked through using the APG and UC.


Diviners do get some of the effects of Forsight and so those effects would be redundant. Other wizards lacking the Diviners specialist abilities would gain those benefits.

As for why Forsight is a 9th level spells....

If the spell is used with just its base listed mechanical components it sucks pretty much.

However if you read the description it stats that Foresight warns you of danger before it happens and gives you a general idea of what action can be taken to avoid the danger. This is what I see as the power of the spells. Though it all depends on how your GM runs the spell.

How I have run and seen it runs it does exactly what it says warns of danger.

Examples..

(Poison)
Divine: "I drink the healing potion the merchant sold me."
GM: "As you raise the potion to your lips you get a sense of danger and a horrible bitter taste in your mouth. The potion smells foul and you get a phantom burning sensation in your throat."

(Traps)
Diviner: "I walk over to the chest and examine it."
GM: "As enter the room and are walking towards the chest you get the feeling that a few of the stones of the floor are unsafe and should be avoided."

(Betrayal)
Diviner: "Now that I have the identity of the spy I will run to the baron and tell him who it is."
GM: As you get to the baron's manor he greats you in the study. As you are about to tell him the identity of the spy you get an unsettling feeling. Something isn't right here and it would be dangerous to tell the Baron the truth."

This is how I read the spell effect working. Otherwise you are right without this effect it pretty much sucks as a 9th level spell and I would put it closer to 4th or 5th tops.


My understanding of the rules is that a day is 24hours. So a Once per day ability can be used once during any 24 hour period regardless of rest. Rest is required for spell recovery but not for Spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, etc...

As for when the ability "Refreshes". I don't think the rules go into great detail. The defualt assumtion I would make would be 24 hours since it was last used.

However I would run it as follows. The player/DM can pic an appropriate time of day that their ability refreshes. Say a druid would refresh his wildshapes at dawn each morning. So he could use all of his wildshape uses one hour before dawn and then get them all back to be used again. However this would mean he when almost 24 hours before dawn without using them and will have to wait another 23+ hours until the next dawn to get them back. If a player was abusing this I would simple time encounters to make it less productive for him or her.

Basically I would just let each player pic an appropriate time for the refresh. But would prefer they stick with things like Midnight, Noon, Dawn, Dusk, etc...something appropriate. Using a set time of day just seems easier to track than....

"What time was it when I turned into the goat?"
"You mean last week at the previous session?"


Cheapy wrote:
FreelanceEvilGenius wrote:
TClifford wrote:
With each being a separate ranged attack and each being a separate save, it really isn't that powerful. As a GM, I'd hate that Su because it would take forever to roll out. 20 - 30 rolls for 1 power. No thank you.
There is no saving throw for the ability. So it would just be a number of Touch Attack Rolls equal to the bards level. Still could be alot of rolls but not 20-30 unless the bard was 20+ level.

There's a fortitude saving throw for half damage.

It is a ton of dice. It's 3 times the number of words used. 1 for the ranged touch. 1 for the saving throw. 1 for the damage.

I need more sleep!!!

I love the power for its effects and theme. But will agree with others that it is a mechanics nightmare and could have been written/designed better.


TClifford wrote:
With each being a separate ranged attack and each being a separate save, it really isn't that powerful. As a GM, I'd hate that Su because it would take forever to roll out. 20 - 30 rolls for 1 power. No thank you.

There is no saving throw for the ability. So it would just be a number of Touch Attack Rolls equal to the bards level. Still could be alot of rolls but not 20-30 unless the bard was 20+ level.


FreelanceEvilGenius wrote:

Just an idea as I lack details to tie it directly into your storyline so just filling in my blanks.

"The Aria Nobilis" (or other name "The Hymn of Day" "Mivon's Lament").

Long ago a when a great evil spread through out the land the guardians and those of good heart banded together to oppose it. Many fell before it's power and the might of its forces. It's power seems unstoppable.

There was one that appeared and ended the threat, Mivon. The stories vary and in each she is discribed differently. Some tales claim she was an angel others a god. Still other stories tell that she was simple a young woman of such pure heart and perfect soul that even the universe could not but stand in awe when she sang. When she sang her voice repelled the forces of darkness. The writhed in agony and found their dark powers failing.

Mivon sang one last song when the evil sought out this young maiden that rumors had would defeat him. Hear voice stopped him in his tracks, frozen and impotent. As she continued to sing his power was shattered and stripped from him. He himself was banished from the realm of the living back into the darkness where he was spawned. This act cost Mivon her lifeforce burned out and exhausted.

The McGuffin is actually the song Mivon sang. Those that were presence and witnessed her song to the parts they could rememeber and shared them. Some sang them to their children as lullybies, others took the one verse they could remember and were inspired to write an epic ballad. Bits and pieces of the song and been repeated over the years. Most dont even remember the origins of these "songs" and "rhymes" and this has been what has keep the Dark evil from reentering the realm. When Mivon sang the song it shattered the demons power and and banished it leaving it to weak to return on it's own. The fragments of the song that remain and are repeated and even without knowing these few people that still sing them serve to keep the weakened demon from the realms.

The PC must collect as much of...

Sorry for all the horrible grammar and choppy sentences. I wrote this post on my coffee break at work and didnt proof read. My grammar teacher is probably rising from her grave as some horrible undead abomination as we speak. Soon she will hobble her way here and devour my soul and flesh.


Just an idea as I lack details to tie it directly into your storyline so just filling in my blanks.

"The Aria Nobilis" (or other name "The Hymn of Day" "Mivon's Lament").

Long ago a when a great evil spread through out the land the guardians and those of good heart banded together to oppose it. Many fell before it's power and the might of its forces. It's power seems unstoppable.

There was one that appeared and ended the threat, Mivon. The stories vary and in each she is discribed differently. Some tales claim she was an angel others a god. Still other stories tell that she was simple a young woman of such pure heart and perfect soul that even the universe could not but stand in awe when she sang. When she sang her voice repelled the forces of darkness. The writhed in agony and found their dark powers failing.

Mivon sang one last song when the evil sought out this young maiden that rumors had would defeat him. Hear voice stopped him in his tracks, frozen and impotent. As she continued to sing his power was shattered and stripped from him. He himself was banished from the realm of the living back into the darkness where he was spawned. This act cost Mivon her lifeforce burned out and exhausted.

The McGuffin is actually the song Mivon sang. Those that were presence and witnessed her song to the parts they could rememeber and shared them. Some sang them to their children as lullybies, others took the one verse they could remember and were inspired to write an epic ballad. Bits and pieces of the song and been repeated over the years. Most dont even remember the origins of these "songs" and "rhymes" and this has been what has keep the Dark evil from reentering the realm. When Mivon sang the song it shattered the demons power and and banished it leaving it to weak to return on it's own. The fragments of the song that remain and are repeated and even without knowing these few people that still sing them serve to keep the weakened demon from the realms.

The PC must collect as much of the original song as possible by peicing together the fragments of the orinal song. The song can then be used to hopefully stop the Evil if it ever does return.

The BBEG is seeking the shattered peices of the Great Evil's power that were left as shards in the realm when it was banished. If he can collect all of these "Shards" and brings them together he may be able to empower the demon enough that it can force it's way back into the realm. The shards are parts of one whole but various items that the fragements of the demon's shattered power latched on to.

One could be a child's doll that will corrupt and spoil a child raises with. The doll has been in a noble family line for years (known for their cruelty by most as each generation was slowly corrupted by the doll.)

Another could be a compass that will always point the direction to what you most covet and lust for, but inevitably leads one through such a path that destruction and misery must be sewn to get there.

A silken ribbon that when worn bindings one hair causes all to feel a near uncontrollable desire for you. This desire grows to obsession and in some cases can lead to devote warship or suicide depending on how the bearer treats the person.

and basic other various "cursed" mundane items that were infused with the EVIL's power.

If the items are all brought together and their power returned to the dark evil will it be strong enough to break out of its banishment.

Will the Aria Nobilis be enough to banish it again?


GM Kyle wrote:

There has been a lot of controversy surrounding the Monk class. Now and again the forums flare up with topics regarding the Monk with various issues. I would like to collaborate with the community to rebuild the monk for my own personal game. This is not a place to argue over what is wrong and what isn’t, that discussion is reserved for another thread. I would like the help for those who are willing and critique to create something balanced. I want to retain the flavor of the monk in the process.

First I am going to list the abilities of the Monk that I like.

1. Good Saving Throws – Fortitude, Reflexes, Willpower
2. AC Bonus
3. Bonus Feat Progression
4. Flurry of Blows
5. Stunning Fist
6. Unarmed Strike
7. Evasion
8. Fast Movement
9. Maneuver Training
10. Still Mind
11. Ki Pool
12. High Jump
13. Purity of Body
14. Wholeness of Body
15. Improved Evasion
16. Diamond Body
17. Abundant Step
18. Diamond Soul
19. Quivering Palm
20. Timeless Body

Next, I am going to list the abilities of the Monk that I do not like.

1. Slow Fall
2. Tongue of the Sun and Moon
3. Empty Body
4. Perfect Self

Lastly, I am going to list the abilities of the Monk that I feel that need revised.

1. Base Attack Progression – If the Monk’s BAB is altered, the following would be affected:
a. Flurry of Blows
b. Maneuver Training
2. Bonus Feats – I think the Monk needs more options.
3. Unarmed Strike – One of the greatest arguments with the Monk’s Unarmed Strike is the fact that it becomes less effective at higher levels. Other combatants get magical weapons, Monks can too but they have no synergy with their special Unarmed Strike. The Amulet of Mighty Fists is the assumed fix for this but it costs more, doesn't offer a +10, and takes up a neck slot compared to a normal magic weapon.
4. Still Mind – I think that this ability could improve.
5. Ki Pool – I think that the ki pool comes too late for the Monk (the ninja gets it at Level 1).
6. Slow Fall – I like the concept of the ability but it needs to work...

Abundant Step to me is the whole "Where did he go?" that that happens in Martial Arts movies. Where the guy dissapears and then pops out of nowhere with a flying kick. Like some of the teleport moves in Mortal Kombat.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon is built off the whole inner self becoming at peace with the world around you and their by being able to understand and comprehend all forms of communication.

Ultimately I think the are fine Monk abilities but may not be best for every monk or as default monk abilities.

I wish Monks had a list of class abilities they could pick from as they leveled up.

As for Slow Fall. I love the concept of this ability but as it is written is just stinks. It should just reduce falling damage/distance regardless of whether there is a wall or not and double it if close to a wall. Or roll it in with High Jump.


wraithstrike wrote:

Even without that spell those tactic work. The point is that one spell can shorten a fight by a round or 2 once the paladin reaches his primary target.

I don't mind smite making bad guys tremble in fear, but it does not ever need to be doubled.

So its ok for a wizard to make someone their total and complete slave for 10+ days (Dominate Person) or to instantaneously transport him self 1000s of miles (Teleport)? Its ok for a cleric to be able heal ALL damage, cure all disease, remove all ailments with a single touch (Heal) or even bring the dead back to life (Raise Dead). But not ok for a Paladin to walk up and Smack an Evil baddy and OWN its sorry butt with holy vengence. I see all of these effects roughly on the same level and fitting the themes of the classes that get them. All of these effects have just as much impact on the game and story. I would say things like Teleport or Dominate person to be far more game/story impacting that.


Reis wrote:

Actually some commenters agreed that the spells have issues.

as for why I posted, I would say that's evident. The point of the boards is to have a discussion, but I believe it says the number 1 rule is "don't be a jerk"! I'm attempting to discuss things in a polite manner here, so I'd appreciate it if other posters didn't attempt to dismiss my claims outright but rather tried to discuss them in a relevant manner.

anyway, I guess my continuing argument is that the posters disagreeing with my post have basically equivocated in the following manner:

1) Paladins are good at fighting evil, and are (arguably) already overpowered. Therefore, another 1-2 spells which make them even stronger against evil shouldn't matter because, just like 3.5, casters are (again, arguably) already much stronger at high levels. Therefore it shouldn't matter that this spell is overpowered because paladins should destroy evil opponents, which are the major foe in most campaigns, because there's no harm in making an already too strong class more powerful in most situations.

2) Direct damage as a high level primary caster is sub-optimal, therefore there's no problem with making a spell which is clearly stronger than most similar spells of its level because that type of spell isn't worth taking anyway.

3) An 8th level spell which is clearly much better than other spells available (even 9th level spells) of its level isn't a problem, even though a touch attack is quite easy to land on a variety of opponents at that level and does not allow a save

4) There's no problem with increasing the variety of swift action and "no save" spells available to "partial casters" because such classes are marginalized anyway.

5) A spell has a 1 round duration (a full attack at x2 damage!= encounter over) or has questionable duration which might be dispelled is not unbalanced even though it is still clearly better than other spells of its level.

I didn't mean "one upsmanship" as an attack against anyone. What I mean is that if you're going...

OK, Just catching up on this thread.

I find nothing incredible wrong with these spells. They are nice but as others have pointed out there are alot of other BETTER spells I would rather fill my spell slots with.

Reis, I do have to wonder what you were expecting from this thread. It seems that since people didnt leap on your wagon and scream "OVERPOWERED" along with you. You basically said "Well I'm out of this thread, you guys are all dodging the question and avoiding the issue (equivocating). Most people stated they didnt feel they were overpower and even gave some examples of spells that were more effective. How was this avoiding the issues or dodging the question?

The only really issue I see is the "Instantaneous" duration which I will assume is just a typo/edit error.


My only issue with this system is what happens when the Targets AC is so high that only an attack roll that falls in to the critical threat range will hit. say a Fighter with +10 to hit using a Keen Scimitar (15-20 threat range). If he is fighting a beasty with 25 AC then any attack that hits is a Crit. There is no chance for a normal hit. He either misses or Crits. I just dont like the feel of that.

I'm not to thrilled with the whole confirmation roll as it add another die roll, but the other options of Auto-Critting sits even less well with me. I would much prefer a system based on how much you exceeded what you needed to hit increasing your damage.

For example: Every 5 points over what you needed to hit increases the damage by the X

Threat range could lover this but not as signifigantly as the increase in threat range. Say a weapon that does 19-20 crit would increase damage for every 4 points over the needed attack roll. 18-20 every 3 points. Keen or Imp. Crit would decrease it by one more.

It would take some working to flesh out but would much prefer this to the current system or auto-criting.


OK I will give it a shot.

Str: 13 (6'1" 240, not in the best shape but stronger than the everage person)

Dex: 10 (Average not clumbsy but no ninja either.)

Con: 10 (Rarely get sick and can take a punch or two. Smoked way to many years.)

Int: 14 (Smarter than the average person but no genius)

Wis: 8 (I seem to repeatedly make very bad choices even when I know better)

Cha: 13 (People say I one of the nicest, fun and most likable people they know.)


The few times we (the groups I have played with) have done this whole "Stat yourself out" thing. I have always found myself having to point out to people how unrealistic some of their stats were. Not saying anyone here is but I would generally throw out some guidelines.

The SMARTEST people in the world (Einstien, Stephen Hawking, Etc.. had 18-20). Most high ranking scientists would range in the 15-17 range. The really smarter than average people we know would range in the 12-14 range.

Hitler had a 18-20 Charisma, unless you feel you could lead a nation your charisma would be much lower than that. 15-17 would be your local social/political leaders. With the average person having a 10 the "Everyone loves this guy, hes really amazing in social circles" guy would have around a 12 maybe 14.


Just my 2 copper on the subject....

I personally prefer a more dynamic indepth world where the "Monsters" are worked into the setting and are more than just "targets" for the supposidly "GOOD" "Violent, Murdering, Corpse Looting Band of Outlaws" that march around "Killing the Monster and taking the treasure".


FuelDrop wrote:
FreelanceEvilGenius wrote:

As I read Forsight it is very powerful.

It provides warning to any kind of danger and also provides information on the best course of action to take.

"As you reach for the door handle and are about to open the door an images flashes in your mind. The image is that of a great red dragon unleashing a cone of foul flames upon your party."

"As you raise the flask to your lips to drink the potion the witch gave you that will heal your wounds you get a sense of nausia and a smell a foul poisonous stench coming from the bottle. You know that it is poisoned."

"As you are about to tell the Duke that you have retreived the lost relic you understand that he seeks the relic for himself and only plans to kill the lot of you and claim it."

"As you reach for the glowing black orb you feel a strong presence within it and can sense the hatred of a fould entity trapped within waiting to possess the next person to touch the orb."

Sure not the mystical sledge hammer that Wish is, nor as reality bending as Timestop, but forsight is a pretty need effect. Just because GMs only apply the flat bonuses and ignore the other information provided by the spell doesnt make the spell itself bad its just bad how they run the spell in their games.

we all agree that, if used RAI then its a decent spell. the catch is that its RAW relies too much on DM interperatation. as i said above, the writing is ambiguous and non specific in such a way that many DMs would interperate it as long-winded fluff for some crappy bonuses.

Its no more open to DM interpretation than alot of the other Divination Spells. Augury, Divination, Ledend Lore. Spells like Commune give straight forward Yes/No but Divination is a usually cryptic answer that will vary from GM to GM. Even Detect Thoughts is going to vary in effect based on the DM. Some DMs will give information as if you had Vulcan Mindmelded with the person while others will give you a string of "why are these weird people asking me questions."

For the Divination School spells that dont provide statistical bonuses the spells have one of two effects generally. They reveal a YES/No or they are left in the hands of the DM to provide "Useful Information as the DM sees fit". Detect spells give you the Yes/No. Yes there is Evil here. Yes there is magic. These have rules and actually information to draw from stat blocks, character sheets, etc... The cool aspect of Divination is the ability to gain Knowledge about things. I believe the intent of Foresight is to provide immediate knowledge about danger even if they did not spell that out well in the description. But its effects in game are very much left in the hands of the GM.

Illusion has some GM issues as well. Some DMs let illusions become incredible powerful while others make them near useless. I have played under both types and learned quickly under which DM to skip those types of spells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As I read Forsight it is very powerful.

It provides warning to any kind of danger and also provides information on the best course of action to take.

"As you reach for the door handle and are about to open the door an images flashes in your mind. The image is that of a great red dragon unleashing a cone of foul flames upon your party."

"As you raise the flask to your lips to drink the potion the witch gave you that will heal your wounds you get a sense of nausia and a smell a foul poisonous stench coming from the bottle. You know that it is poisoned."

"As you are about to tell the Duke that you have retreived the lost relic you understand that he seeks the relic for himself and only plans to kill the lot of you and claim it."

"As you reach for the glowing black orb you feel a strong presence within it and can sense the hatred of a fould entity trapped within waiting to possess the next person to touch the orb."

Sure not the mystical sledge hammer that Wish is, nor as reality bending as Timestop, but forsight is a pretty need effect. Just because GMs only apply the flat bonuses and ignore the other information provided by the spell doesnt make the spell itself bad its just bad how they run the spell in their games.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Brambleman wrote:
Lincoln Hills wrote:
Insert a female goblin into My Fair Lady and enjoy the resulting train wreck! Not to mention the potential of PCs having to teach valuable life lessons. Perhaps they'll go to the town library and check out childrens' books with titles like Mr. Fire Belongs In The Stove, Flies Are Not Toys, and Brooms Are For Sweeping.
Of course, begin with Stop burning all the Books

Dr. Zues books.

"Chop on Pop"
"Horton Hacks off a Leg"
"Horton Burns a Who"
"Green Eggs and Man"
"A Dead Cat as a Hat"
"Hurl the Turtle and Other Stories"


My witch was a Tribal Shaman. Healing Patron and Hedge Witch archetype.

I flavored her magic as a more spiritual type. Alot of here spells were actually Invocations of ancestor spirits. Buffs she used on the party were discribed as quasi-possessions by ancestor spirits.

For example Haste made the party members feel their limbs moving before they even thought about it and would occasionally have aspects of the combat triggere memories of ancient battles they were never a part of.

Another example of her style of magic was Remove Curse.
I actually forced the other party members to hold the cursed member down while I carved symbols on his chest with a knife and "Bleed" the foul magicks out of him.

Alot of her Hexes were "Gifts" from nature spirits she had aided. The flight hex was from a Wind spirit she had aid that agreed to return the favore. He allow her to bind him within herself through use of ritual scarring and tatooing. This granted her the flight Hex.

Her Monster Summonings were manifestation of spirits taking form to aid her.

Dominate Person was actually full Possession of the target by an ancestor spirit loyal to her.

She also brewed potions but most of them were pouches of herbs or foul smelling salves. She actually used bull's blood to brew potions of Bull's Strength.

I would often use Divination and other divination spells by animal sacrifice and reading then entrails.


I would have him explain it like this.

Magic draws up on the energies of the cosmos and through various methods and techniques can be shaped into effects.

Arcane magic relies on the energies of the prime plane and also both the astral and ethereal planes. The magic symbols, phrases and components are used as tools to mold and shape this energy. The Recipies we call spells.

Sorceres seem to possess and innate reserve of this energy as well as and ability to channel the energies around them more easily. They still must rely on many of the various tools to shape the energy but do it in a more instictive way than Wizardry. They learn each spell individually as more of a talent than a comprehensive field of study. Its like learning to play separate musical instrements and specific songs without studying the fundamentals of music.

Wizardry addresses and studies the metaphysics of magic and how each of the tools work in relation to each step and aspect of the spells.

Other forms of arcane magic use differing techniques and ritual pratices to shape energies in ways that differ from the practice of wizardy. The "Song Magic" of bards and the primitive magic of witchcraft are capable healing and other manipulations that wizardry does not incorporate. These forms branch away from the primary focus of the schools of wizardry and require abstract techniques that are generally contrary to a greater understanding of arcane magic. Also witches seem to learn tools and techniques from unknown "agents" that are not party of the theories and mechanics of wizardry.

Divine magic draws energy from one or more of the Outer Planes and also uses similar yet different tools and practices. Ones Diety or ethos is a key factor in the rituals and devotion of the energies channels. Due to the innate alignments of the Outer Planes one must himself align his own energies and essence to harmonize with the energies. Most use the faith and teaches of a religion and alignment and connection with a Diety to aid in this connection. Others simple follow a philosophy that shapes their energies to harmonize with the plane itself. The rituals and tools of Divine magic are used to shape the energies into spells just as with Arcane magic.


In the 20+ years I have been playing roleplaying games. We have had many parties consist of family members.

As long as everyone is willing to roleplay and take the character's background and histories seriously I can see it being an amazing game.

As mentioned it can make tying everyone together very easy reducing the need to try and figure out why X character would go along. Sure there may be conflicts but all parties have conflicts the important thing here is the Family Bond.

Friends and coworkers may have fights and end up not being friends any more or changing jobs but most of us have had even worse falling outs with family members yet we still interact with them and they are still a part of our lives.

As far as whether players will react well to being bossed around by mom or dad or grandpa. Everyone should sit down and discuss the social dynamic. No one that is going to have a problem (Out of Character) with being bosses around should play the young son if Bob is playing the Nazi-like father. However some players may want to play the rebelious youth that keeps getting in to trouble.

Basically have everyone share their general character ideas and discuss/work out their relationships with the other family members.

If you are going to play the Parent/Sibling combo be sure you are very familiar with the other players play style and both player and character personality.

I had a female friend that gamed with me and we always played brother/sister combos. We had an amazing dynamic. Even without discussing before hand we could fall into roleplaying just making up stories about our characters backgrounds. When one of us would get stumpped or stumble we could easily cover for the other.


Scrogz wrote:
Squawk Featherbeak wrote:
What kind of mage are you, btw?

The island is VERY small, like 50 sq yards so there is little to no chance it's on any known chart.

You may also be on a time limit. 50 sq yards is tiny. What is her food and water supply like? How is she surviving?

Find the path might be your best bet.


Whether the Kobalds needed to be killed or not really isnt the first issue I would point out in this.

The Paladin ran up and killed SLEEPING HELPLESS DEFENSELESS UNARMED opponents. That is a gross violation of the Paladin Code. It is in no way honorable in any shape or fashion. Not only was it dishonorable it was flat out STUPID. If Kobalds are EVIL UNREDEEMABLY and you happen to have 4 of them asleep and at your mercy. Why on earth would you kill them rather than tie them up and question them. Find out if there are any more in the area. Find out what they are up to or have planned? Are they an advanced scouting party? Are they servants of an evil wizard?

The world will never know. How many kobalds does it take to make a Paladin fall from grace?

The thing about good people is that they feel bad about doing bad things. It may have been neccessary and prevented more harm than it caused but if you are a good hearted person you have to feel bad that it "Had to end that way." Being good is hard and a lot of work. If you dont put in the work and effort you end up feeling guilty about it.

Also the statement was made that Innocent people are not neutral but good. I saw it in a qoute but could not find the original post the qoute was from. I have to disagree. A person can be very innocent and still not be overly protective of life, morals or helping others.

Take the old lady that lives on the end of the street. She doesn't go out of her way to help people and prefers to stay to herself. She doesnt wish ill on others and is always polite when she goes shopping because that is how she was raised. But she also doesnt feel overly compelled to help people. She's not cruel and would definitely call the police and report an accidient but isn't going to run out side to help every child that falls of their bike and skins their knee. She spends her days gardening and doing crossword puzzels. She also spends time watching TV with her cat, Mr. Peeppers. She cares about her daily routine and the things she enjoys but follows the law and doesnt bother anyone at all. She is a very innocent person but is Neutral.


Grumpus wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:

It means you can't have the hex used on you more than once every 24 hours. If it lasts for multiple rounds then yes, you get the benefit every round.

Don't try and read too much into the word benefited.

Then why not use the word "affected" instead of benefited? Would seem to be much clearer.

Also can a silenced witch "Cackle" to extend hexes?

The use of the word "Benefited" might not have been the best choice but it basically is used synonymously with "Affected".

Technically the Cackle Hex is not a sonic or language dependent effect so by RAW can be performed in an area of silence.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Fenrisnorth wrote:

I mostly boils down to the party MUs wanting to do things every round, and not being content with their mace or crossbows.

It may be the 2nd edition player in me, but I never demanded the party sleep after I cast my ONE magic missile.

Thank you all for the advice, honestly I've tried much of it before, and I don't mind PCs sleeping once or twice in-dungeon, it's the 15 room dungeon that takes two weeks to clear that makes my head hurt.

Time limits are a good way to go, I agree; we had a single day to complete the High Clerist's Tower. That was much more intense and fun than if we'd cleared it in a month. The problem, as has been noted, is that doing it too often makes it frustrating and stale.

I guess the PCs will have to deal with solo goblins and whatnot shooting them while they sleep if they leave the dungeon to rest-up.

You don't have to slap a time limit on each quest or adventure, though doing so from time to time would help and would be appropriate. What you can do the other times is simply leave clues that they missed something and if they had been there a few hours earlier they would not have.

Examples.
1) The party takes a rest after exploring the 1st few rooms in a ruined outpost. They fall back to the treeline and find a sheltered spot to camp. When they approach the entrance to the ruined outpost the next morning. They see alot of hoof prints, signs that something heavy was dragged here and then wagon tracks leading away.

***You dont even have to change anything in the dungeon. The PC will be curious what was taken in the middle of the night, etc...with no change to the actually planned adventure. But it creates the feeling that they missed out on something because the rested.

2) The PC are exploring a haunted castle, searching for an ancient tome of lore that is key to moving on to the next part of the campaign. They often spot the figure of a cloaked humaniod. Sometimes through a window running across a slanted section of roof. Sometimes down in the garden and other times peeking out a window down at the PCs. They even come across fresh footprints in the dust on the floor. The rogue notices that some of the locks have fresh scratches around them and someone has recently pick a few of them.

***Other than pointing these things out. Nothing in the adventure needs to change. They never even need to encounter this cloaked figure. But it creates the tension that someone else is also looking for something here and they need to find it first!!! Competition is a great motivator.

The groups I play with are very Roleplaying heavy but we are equally ROLL-players as well. Most of the time we never have the 15 minute day as the roleplaying aspect is what keeps us going.

Noble Cleric stuck in a bog.
"Guys do we really have to rest again?, If I have to spend one more night in this foul swamp with all these bugs and..ugh (swat)...If we press through the night we can be out of the swamp my mid morning."

Dwarven Veteran to an Elven wizard
"Rest? Bah! Tis barely noon laddy and your asking to rest? All ye deed was wiggle your fingers and chant some fancy words, which I'm doubtin you even reckon the meaning of. That tire you out to much? Bah, elves, it takes a dwarf to get the job done. Get your spells back? Huh? Really, you used both your fire spells on the orcs? Yeah was wondering why ya deed that. Me and de barbarian would have finished em off in no time either way. You killed more trees than orcs. Oh, and I have to be askin why you packing around that long sword and Long bow. Aint never seen you draw either one of them. Why dont ye try shootin the orcs next time rather than burning down half de forest and gettin the local druid all up in arms. But go ahead get your beauty rest me and Krogar here will just stay up and tell old war stories. Hope the tales of a true warrior and adventurer dont keep ye up."

1 to 50 of 71 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>