What's your point? Poorly-written feats are poorly written?
Let it be noted that raw is god to castys until it is inconvenient to their point. Then it's bad writing.
By that logic, if I personally charge with pounce, I only get one attack, since the charge rules also say I can only make one melee attack, which would overwrite pounce. Remember, specific always trumps general rules.
You gain the bonus of a charge. Pounce is a bonus to a charge, therefore it works.Alternatively, Spirited Charge and Ride by attack do nothing, because they refer to you charging while mounted and not the mount charging with you on it.
Acutally he is right. Mounted combat explicitly forbids that you can make more than one attack if your mount moves further than 5ft.
Pounce only says that you may take a full attack after charging instead of the usual only one attack.
Mounted combat allows you to charge (what is your argument here with the +2 bonus anway?) but forbids the (now possible) full attack after the charge because it is stated in mounted combat.
That you COULD do a full attack after a charge doesn't matter here because it is clearly superseded.
Huh?
Pounce it CLEARLY changes the charge rules for that specific creature.Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
But mounted combat states that you can only make ONE attack if it moves. No matter whether you full attack or charge. It always limits you down to one attack.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
See how it says that "you cannot make a full attack" and pounce also gives you "it can make a full attack".
So you could make a full attack if it wouldn't explicitly say that you can't take a full attack.By your logic everyone can full attack after a charge because you can full attack and only the charge says you can't. So you can because you could if you weren't charging. And in this case you can't because you are mounted.
The rule way is always general->specific rule. Just like in the case of the charge.
Now its general->specific->specific.
I'm not going to search everywhere for all the stats, but what is the HP of this character and his reflex save. Does he have any elemental resistances. SR? I assume he has evasion?
I'mma go with Quickened Illusory Wall and Gate (Planar Travel)
I'm not going to search everywhere for all the stats, but what is the HP of this character and his reflex save. Does he have any elemental resistances. SR? I assume he has evasion?
AM BARBARIAN is the classical case of Schroedinger's Character.
You know so much that it can be said that he can kill you but everything else is never stated ;)
Reflex is ~+35 with a reroll, and evasion. (as always, low estimate) hp str either 387 or 385. Ish.
Reflex is ~+35 with a reroll, and evasion. (as always, low estimate) hp str either 387 or 385. Ish.
Oh: also need touch AC and Dex score.
Rules text.
Charge
Charging is a special full-round action
that allows you to move up to twice
your speed and attack during the action.
Charging, however, carries tight
restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge
You must move before your attack, not
after. You must move at least 10 feet (2
squares) and may move up to double
your speed directly toward the
designated opponent. If you move a
distance equal to your speed or less,
you can also draw a weapon during a
charge attack if your base attack bonus
is at least +1.
You must have a clear path toward the
opponent, and nothing can hinder your
movement (such as difficult terrain or
obstacles). You must move to the
closest space from which you can
attack the opponent. If this space is
occupied or otherwise blocked, you
can't charge. If any line from your
starting space to the ending space
passes through a square that blocks
movement, slows movement, or
contains a creature (even an ally), you
can't charge. Helpless creatures don't
stop a charge.
If you don't have line of sight to the
opponent at the start of your turn, you
can't charge that opponent.
You can't take a 5-foot step in the same
round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard
action on your turn, you can still charge,
but you are only allowed to move up to
your speed (instead of up to double
your speed) and you cannot draw a
weapon unless you possess the Quick
Draw feat. You can't use this option
unless you are restricted to taking only
a standard action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge
After moving, you may make a single
melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the
attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your
AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on
combat maneuver attack rolls made to
bull rush an opponent.
Even if you have extra attacks, such as
from having a high enough base attack
bonus or from using multiple weapons,
you only get to make one attack during
a charge.
Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance
deals double damage if employed by a
mounted character in a charge.
Note that the rules specifically state that you can only make one attack on your charge. Pounce gets around this. Note as well that the charge rules again state 'while you are mounted in a charge.'
Or is that also poorly written?
Reflex is ~+35 with a reroll, and evasion. (as always, low estimate) hp str either 387 or 385. Ish.Oh: also need touch AC and Dex score.
Dex is approx. 18. Currently, touch is estimated at 32 or 26, depending on if reckless is up.
NOBODY LIKES KINETICKILLORBITALSTRIKE?
Note: pounce and iterative attacks already has a thread here:
paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rule s/pounceAndItiteriveAttacks&page=1#31
We could append mounted combat and pounce there, if you wish to continue.
This thread is about dealing damage as castys. While I love ranting about AM, it's disrespectful to the OP.
NOBODY LIKES KINETICKILLORBITALSTRIKE?
The rules for falling objects are sadly quite clear, and your Kinetic Strike is far from the city-ending impact you'd hope for :(
20d6 with a Reflex 15 for half is not killing most high level characters. Especially since you're trying to hit someone, and its a ranged touch with an increment of 20 ft at that point.
seriously max of 20d6? And they claim mages rape the laws of physics?
seriously max of 20d6? And they claim mages rape the laws of physics?
Collosal Objects made of dense material deal 10d6 falling damage, and that doubles after 150 ft. Yeah. Not too much there.
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Why are we assuming AM BARBARIAN starts at 30'? I'd have Contingency up to teleport me away (halfway around the globe, if necessary) when AM BARBARIAN gets within 200'. Ish.
As a Great and All Powerful Wizard, I do not care about trivialities like location. Just keeping myself inconsequential vis-a-vis AM BARBARIAN is enough.
Cast fly. That gives you a hundred rounds or so to figure out what to do. :P
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Why are we assuming AM BARBARIAN starts at 30'? I'd have Contingency up to teleport me away (halfway around the globe, if necessary) when AM BARBARIAN gets within 200'. Ish.
As a Great and All Powerful Wizard, I do not care about trivialities like location. Just keeping myself inconsequential vis-a-vis AM BARBARIAN is enough.
AM may start as close as 30 feet because BATTY BAT is rather fast. The thinking is that he's too far away for you to make a perception check to see him, then all up in your face with Observed State before you can do anything about him.
Also, he's inconsequential to me, not the other way around. I'm sure I matter to him a great deal, as he can't kill me and it keeps him up at night. :)
(sighs).
Name the part of a Contingency spell that has Detect Am Barbarian built into it. I see no Divination in the spell.
Likewise, Detect Person coming within x' range. I don't see any range beyond personal in the spell, or Detect Person spell.
The spell can only sense stuff happening to you. It has no range to detect anything outside your person. It is a REACTIVE spell, NOT a built-in readied action, which mages keep interpreting it as.
==Aelryinth
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Of course I can. I've still got quickened spells.what I tried to say is that combining the movement of the moun and the spell sunder of the barbarian the situation return to the original one.
he can not atack you in that round, but you do not acomplish nothing
an that quicken spell is?
I am not saying that the barbarian will win, or is superior, I just want to know your entire tactic against him.
Well, it starts with a pair of waves of exhaustion, one quickened, so he's done sundering my spells after the first one. Then I kill or disable BATTY BAT. After that, AM is in trouble, because I can throw spells far longer than he can rage. He's bound to fail a save eventually, and then he's done.
Oh, and that's enough of my tactics. The rest is a surprise.
What approximately, is AM's CMD supposed to be by the way (and Batty's)? Quickened true strike + telikinesis stops the pounce certainly.
Somewhere in the 60+ range.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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FWIW, AM does not need to spell sunder any wall spell placed in front of or around him, with the exception of prismatic wall/sphere. All other walls have hardness and hit points. He can use Ride-by Attack to just ATTACK them with his charge, blast a hole through them with sheer unmitigated damage, and keep on charging in a straight line through the hole. Even if the hole is not as big as BATTY, he can move through it without obstruction in his speed due to some power or other whose name I've forgotten (Dragon Style feat I think, not positive) that lets him ignore that kinda stuff when running or charging, so even a partial wall doesn't block his charge.
What approximately, is AM's CMD supposed to be by the way (and Batty's)? Quickened true strike + telikinesis stops the pounce certainly.Somewhere in the 60+ range.
Not including strength surge, ~60 or 54, again depending on reckless. Don't know on the bat, honestly.
(sighs).
Name the part of a Contingency spell that has Detect Am Barbarian built into it. I see no Divination in the spell.
Likewise, Detect Person coming within x' range. I don't see any range beyond personal in the spell, or Detect Person spell.
The spell can only sense stuff happening to you. It has no range to detect anything outside your person. It is a REACTIVE spell, NOT a built-in readied action, which mages keep interpreting it as.
==Aelryinth
Please show me the language you are basing your opinion on.
Contingency does not state that the caster or any other creature need be aware of what is happening. It doesn't state the range at which it can or can't determine states. The problem is that once the conditions are stated, the caster may not have any control in whether it gets triggered. The spell triggered must target the caster as well, so something like Wall of Force is a no-go.
Actually I didn't notice anyone call me on my mistake, max level for contingency is 6th, forcecage is 7th. Resilient Sphere still works though and forces AM to spell sunder if he wants to get in.
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Actually I didn't notice anyone call me on my mistake, max level for contingency is 6th, forcecage is 7th. Resilient Sphere still works though and forces AM to spell sunder if he wants to get in.
Alientude certainly did, and others may have. And it's been mentioned a couple of times in the AM BARBARIAN thread as well.
But all of this is beside the fact that this is a 'do a bunch of damage as a casty' thread.
To put it another way: this is not an AM BARBARIAN thread. We are assuming the target to have AM like defenses, but are keeping RAGELANCEPOUNCE out of the equation except as a possible reference point for damage.
Again: NOT AN AM BARBARIAN THREAD. We have two of those already. They're still perfectly fine.
What have we got so far on dealing damage?
If AM relies on BATTY to fly, I would definitely target BATTY first as a casty. Grounding him gives me the mobility advantage which I desperately need, or even making him rely on a slower form of flight.
Actually I didn't notice anyone call me on my mistake, max level for contingency is 6th, forcecage is 7th. Resilient Sphere still works though and forces AM to spell sunder if he wants to get in.Alientude certainly did, and others may have. And it's been mentioned a couple of times in the AM BARBARIAN thread as well.
Too fast and furious on this posting for me to catch it all, either way, Resilient Sphere still works and is lower level and far less resource intensive to cast, making it a viable option to try and use up spell sunders.
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You're all going about it wrong. A fireball, with just Maximize on it, cast at an area completely filled with fine-size creatures, will do 60 x 40 squares x 100 creatures per square = 240,000 points of damage. And that's just a fireball.
EDIT: And that's if they're all just on a carpet on the floor, like peasants or commoners or some such riffraff. If they're flying and filling a volume, it's...um...carry the 3...infinity damage.
You're all going about it wrong. A fireball, with just Maximize on it, cast at an area completely filled with fine-size creatures, will do 60 x 40 squares x 100 creatures per square = 240,000 points of damage. And that's just a fireball.
I think the intent of the thread is to get the most damage out of a single spell to a single target.
In which case I think the winner is Magus.
I think the intent of the thread is to get the most damage out of a single spell to a single target.In which case I think the winner is Magus.
I don't think you are limited to a single spell. Otherwise you take out the whole point of quickened. (besides I don't see AM being limited to a single attack, as hard as others have tried)
Note that the rules specifically state that you can only make one attack on your charge. Pounce gets around this. Note as well that the charge rules again state 'while you are mounted in a charge.'
Or is that also poorly written?
What you do is Rules as Wanted because you think its cool that its possible.
We have 3 sets of rules here
1) Charging Characters can do one attack and not a full attack
2) Mounted Characters can only attack once as soon as their mount moves more than 5ft.
3) Pounce gives you the ability to do a full attack instead of the one attack only
Pounce clearly changes rule 1). But do you see any connection to rule 2)? Does it state something like "If you are mounted and your mount moves more than 5ft you can do a full attack instead of a single attack only"? No it doesn't.
.
.
.
So we have a new set of 2 rules here
1) Charging Character X can do a full attack while charging
2) Mounted Characters can only attack once if their mount moves more than 5ft.
And since a charge requires you to move at least 10ft I can't really see how you could circumvent rule 2). Rule 2) applies as soon as you are mounted and moving more than 5ft (which you are doing). Rule 2) doesn't care about whether you are charging or not.
Your assumption is (without charge)
1. Characters not moving more than 5ft can full attack
2. 2) Mounted Characters can only attack once if their mount moves more than 5ft.
Mount moves 10ft. FULL ATTACK!!!!!!!!!
But this doesn't work out :P
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(sighs).
Name the part of a Contingency spell that has Detect Am Barbarian built into it. I see no Divination in the spell.
Likewise, Detect Person coming within x' range. I don't see any range beyond personal in the spell, or Detect Person spell.
The spell can only sense stuff happening to you. It has no range to detect anything outside your person. It is a REACTIVE spell, NOT a built-in readied action, which mages keep interpreting it as.
==Aelryinth
Name the part of the Contingency spell that can sense something happening to you. I see no Divination in the spell.
Your interpretation is logically inconsistent.
Halfling (assuming 20 point buy)
22 Dex (14 + 2 Halfling +6 Dex Belt)
Sorcerer (Crossblooded - Water Primal Elemental and White Draconic)
Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 competence)
Greater Rod of Maximize Spell
Greater Rod of Quicken Spell
luck blades with zero wishes
Traits (possibly gained from Additional Traits) - gifted adept (+1 CL on polar ray) and magical lineage (treat polar ray's actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level)
Empower Spell
Spell Perfection (polar ray)
Weapon Focus (ray) (added +2 because of Spell Perfection)
Spell Specialization (polar ray, +4 CL from Spell Perfection)
Point Blank Shot (+2 hit/damage with Polar Ray)
(Craft Rod ideal, but not necessary)
*insert random metamagic feat here*
*insert random metamagic feat here*
Spells precast
- moment of prescience
- contingency - set to cast true strike on yourself after you successfully cast polar ray
Start of combat, cast polar ray applying Empower Spell (using the magical lineage ability) and use greater rod of Maximize Spell. Also use full moment of prescience bonus on attack roll (+20).
Attack +42 touch (10 BAB + 2 WF/SP + 2 PBS + 1 Comp + 1 Small + 6 Dex + 20 insight)
Damage: 150 (25d6 maximized) + 50 (crossblooded sorcerer) + 25d6 / 2 (43.75 avg) + 2 PBS -- average damage: 245.75
Also, target takes 4 + 1d4/2 Dexterity drain (5.25 on average)
After spell is cast, true strike is automatically cast by the contingency spell.
Using the greater rod of Quicken Spell, cast another polar ray applying Empower Spell (using the magical lineage ability).
Attack still +42 touch (target's Dex will be drained as well, so target's touch AC goes down)
Damage: 25d6 (87.5 avg) + 50 (crossblooded sorcerer) + 25d6 / 2 (43.75 avg) + 2 PBS -- average damage: 183.25
Also takes 1d4 + 1d4 / 2 Dex drain (for a total average of 9)
Total damage 429. . . with no saving throw made. . . with a reroll for a possible natural 1. . .
barbarian am dead
For Spellcaster Damage, does anything actually really compete with the Wizard 19/CBSorcerer 1 with Spell Perfection, and Maximized (+3), Empowered (+2), Intensified (free due to Magical Lineage) followed by its pal with free Quicken (and room for MORE metamagic unless I'm missing something) and a lesser maximize rod for a pair of 22d6+44 (176 each) fireballs?
Wont drop AM BARBARIAN, but with doubled Spell Focuses etc. the DC's should be enough to end encounters fairly easily, and if you're hitting multiple targets the damage numbers should be fairly competitive with AM Barbarians at what, 3+ targets?
For Spellcaster Damage, does anything actually really compete with the Wizard 19/CBSorcerer 1 with Spell Perfection, and Maximized (+3), Empowered (+2), Intensified (free due to Magical Lineage) followed by its pal with free Quicken (and room for MORE metamagic unless I'm missing something) and a lesser maximize rod for a pair of 22d6+44 (176 each) fireballs?
Yes. A magus channel striking through his falcata and doing all that.
Alien, it appears the thing at the core of the dispute is if point 2 (can only make one attack while mounted if it moves) our point 3 (pounce allowing a full attack on a charge) is a more specific instance.
Generally, I ascribe to the theory that specific named abilities are more specific than standard combat rules. You are welcome to interpret differently, and I do applaud you for coming up with something better than 'but the mount is charging, not you.'
BUT AGAIN THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CASTYS DEALING DAMAGE. I WANT TO SEE SOME 300D6 FIREBALLS.
Something awesome
Yes. This is what the thread is supposed to be about!
Yes. A magus channel striking through his falcata and doing all that.For Spellcaster Damage, does anything actually really compete with the Wizard 19/CBSorcerer 1 with Spell Perfection, and Maximized (+3), Empowered (+2), Intensified (free due to Magical Lineage) followed by its pal with free Quicken (and room for MORE metamagic unless I'm missing something) and a lesser maximize rod for a pair of 22d6+44 (176 each) fireballs?
Wait. Spell Perfection really works like that?
Magus prepares Fireball (3), Intensified (lineage), Empowered (+2), Maximized (+3, free due to perfection), net level 5, and is valid as its less than spell level 9? Even though Magi can't cast 9th level spells...
Thats... crazy. And... awesome.