Tired of the ridiculessness of rage-lance-pounce, casters let's show them how it's really done!


Advice

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meabolex wrote:
By the way, cold ice strike is a mistake in the printing of ultimate magic -- it's not a real spell (actually I think it was supposed to be a monk ability). I'm pretty sure if it isn't already errated, it will be.

it was errata'd to a 30ft line, but not the swift action cast time. which is BS i understand, but this is an exorcise meant to exploit rules


Regrs wrote:

Diviner Wizard level 20.

Plays first since he always wins initiative
Time-Stop (extended with rod) (4 rounds)
Mage's Disjunction (area version)
Cast Gate as a horizontal circle above our opponent
Reverse Gravity (area non-target spell, may extend by feat)

Need rule clarification for being able to cast another spell while concentrating on a previous spell.

very interesting combo


I know!

precast ball lightnings can be directed as move actions so

crossblooded sorc elemental (primal) and Draconic (silver)

Intensified and empowered cold ice strike with metamagic rod to maximize it (using magical lineage to lower the metamagic cost for intensify),

magical lineaged polar ray, empowered and maximized with a rod of maximization

Ball lightning with magical lineage for energy sub cold, empowered, and maximized

sadly twin and energy admixture are not RAW for PF so they will not be included

ball lightning spell = 15d6 + 30
polar ray = 25d6 + 50
Cold ice strike = 20d6 + 40
all of which are empowered and maximized

60d6 + 30d6 + 120 + 60

60 dice are maximized for 360, avg of 30d6 is 105
360+105 +180 = 645 cold damage

without ball lightning, subtract 141 dmg


Alienfreak wrote:
TarkXT wrote:


Alienfreak wrote:
+40 is low? How high exactly is his touch AC?

Took me a moment to figure out just who exactly you were talking about.

+42 is high but iirc it still wasn't a guarantee. CAn't recall the exact number but I believe it was actually higher than his normal AC if you can believe that.

Schroedinger much?

There NEVER were actual numbers on his character. You are all still falling for his Schroedinger concept and celebrating it as invincible...

Its not even him who comes up with this. He just lets you do the work and one of his fanboys ALWAYS comes up with an antidote just right for that occasion and ofc AM BARBARIAN happens to just have that one right now...

Technically, until anyone posts something full, we're all arguing schrodinger. However, AM is much closer than any wizard I've seen. We can at least figure out what he had prepared each day.

That sorcerer is really nice, though. I need to plan accordingly.


dragonfire8974 wrote:
Trinam wrote:

People always say that, but I never see a 'how.'

At least I say how you will die. RAGELANCEPOUNCE and all that. It's a little more complex than that but I do want people to keep saying 'I make seventy billion clones!' for the moment because it's more interesting. And funnier.

i think this may kill batty bat

KispyXIV wrote:


For Spellcaster Damage, does anything actually really compete with the Wizard 19/CBSorcerer 1 with Spell Perfection, and Maximized (+3), Empowered (+2), Intensified (free due to Magical Lineage) followed by its pal with free Quicken (and room for MORE metamagic unless I'm missing something) and a lesser maximize rod for a pair of 22d6+44 (176 each) fireballs?

Yes. A magus channel striking through his falcata and doing all that.

Sorry if i making a Scrodinger barbarian, but if a barbarian really depend of his mount he will buy it alot of defensive stuff, and I mean at 20 level energy resitance is not that expensive.

beside with ferocious mount, supertisius and a +5 cloak of resitance, his mount probably make the save (the metamagic do not improve the dc), and the mount have improved evasion so is posibly that it thae 0 damage.
and remenber, the mount is raging, it will have a lot of hps,


Alienfreak wrote:
TarkXT wrote:


Alienfreak wrote:
+40 is low? How high exactly is his touch AC?

Took me a moment to figure out just who exactly you were talking about.

+42 is high but iirc it still wasn't a guarantee. CAn't recall the exact number but I believe it was actually higher than his normal AC if you can believe that.

Schroedinger much?

There NEVER were actual numbers on his character. You are all still falling for his Schroedinger concept and celebrating it as invincible...

Its not even him who comes up with this. He just lets you do the work and one of his fanboys ALWAYS comes up with an antidote just right for that occasion and ofc AM BARBARIAN happens to just have that one right now...

Not really a fan boy. Just in on the joke.

I've been around these kinds of boards a long long time and I'm happy to say these mirror exactly the kinds of threads where one person has AM WIZARD and various martial builds are put before it where the wizard immediately brushes them off with something they JUST HAPPEN to have.

Ironically much of what I point out is simply parroting stuff that's been around since his inception.

Can we kill AM BARBARIAN? Of course we can. It just depends on what extremes you are willing to go, how much gold you want to spend and what sort of minions you've bound, dominated, and leadershipped around you.


Trinam wrote:
nosig wrote:
Or, heck, teleport to the local judicial house and get a restraining order on the Barbarian to keep him more than 80' away from you.
Seoni has proven this a valid tactic.

There may be an issue with that tactic


While typing in allcaps and having a blast.

Don't forget that part. It's important.


I remember that Ravingdork had a good blaster build from one of the Blast vs Control threads. anyone find it?

Edit : FOUND IT!!


Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but in addition to the attcak pattern: BLAST, QUICKENED BLAST

You can also redirect a spell like Ball Lightning, and have a familiar UMD another blast from a wand.

So a full round routine should be
REDIRECT BLAST, BLAST, QUICKENED BLAST, UMD BLAST!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Round 1: Cast wish stating "I wish to do infinite damage"

Thread over, I win.


JMD031 wrote:

Round 1: Cast wish stating "I wish to do infinite damage"

Thread over, I win.

Infinite damage is dealt to a single atom of directly in front of you splitting it in two. The resulting explosion renders you into an ashen shadow on the now bleached white earth.

GM wins.


JMD031 wrote:

Round 1: Cast wish stating "I wish to do infinite damage"

Thread over, I win.

what spell does that emulate?


JMD031 wrote:

Round 1: Cast wish stating "I wish to do infinite damage"

Thread over, I win.

AM DIRTY FIAT.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TarkXT wrote:
JMD031 wrote:

Round 1: Cast wish stating "I wish to do infinite damage"

Thread over, I win.

Infinite damage is dealt to a single atom of directly in front of you splitting it in two. The resulting explosion renders you into an ashen shadow on the now bleached white earth.

GM wins.

The point of the thread was to do more damage than RAGELANCEPOUNCE. So, I win either way.

dragonfire8974 wrote:
what spell does that emulate?

The spell of Awesomeness.

AM BARBARIAN wrote:
AM DIRTY FIAT.

Hate the game, not the player ;).

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A readied action to cast a reached (meta) euphoric tranquility does not allow a save. Then talk with the barb to get his name, make friends...Later cast trap the soul on a properly prepared gem, give as gift later. Lvl 8 spell cast at lvl9. Trap the soul is lvl8.

Don't forget command words take a standard action.

Forget damage and go for no save just die spells.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Spell Perfection does not allow you to double the damage bonus from a sorcerous bloodline or wizard archetype. It works only on effects that stem from feats, not class abilities. Damage bonuses from using Eldritch Heritage stem from the bloodline, not the feat.

So the doubled +1 dmg/CL doesn't apply, i.e. no +50 dmg on that Cold Strike or Polar Ray, it's still just +25.
==============

All spells are capable of knowing what effect they should have on their primary target, and COntingency is no different. Contingency is set up to sense you, target you, and react to you.

It is not set up to sense any and everything around it, react to any random condition, and cast where and whatever you want to. Contingency is NOT A READIED ACTION.

For instance, reacting to AM requires that the spell know what and who AM is. Within 300' could mean on the other side of a dungeon...yet somehow Contingency senses this, because there's no limitations on this 'sensory' ability that is being conjured up. Indeed, he could have mind blank up, and it wouldn't matter, because Contingency isn't a divination, despite this blatantly being sensory magic!

"Go off when enemies approach me" means it somehow has to know what is an enemy...there is NO spell that does that, yet somehow Contingency can sense this, and more perfectly then any divination spell?

No. Target, sense and react to YOU. That's it. Anything else is blatant abuse of the spell. It is NOT that strong.

Can you put Ray Deflection on a shield? Would stop a Ray caster cold.

If this were 3.5 I'd use Magic Missiles, which you could hop up to a thousand damage with enough Meta feats and Arcane Thesis. Arcane Thesis and Spell Perfection together on a Force Missile Mage build would just be sick and fun.

====Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

Spell Perfection does not allow you to double the damage bonus from a sorcerous bloodline or wizard archetype. It works only on effects that stem from feats, not class abilities. Damage bonuses from using Eldritch Heritage stem from the bloodline, not the feat.

So the doubled +1 dmg/CL doesn't apply, i.e. no +50 dmg on that Cold Strike or Polar Ray, it's still just +25.

the crossblooded type Elemental Primal (water) and Draconic (silver), both add +1 per die to damage of cold subtype spells as their arcana which is given by crossblooded archetype

EDIT: fixed the wording on the post

Lantern Lodge

pounce wrote:

Pounce (Ex)
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).

Format: pounce; Location: Special Attacks.

AM can get a full attack on a ragelancepounce.

fullattack wrote:


Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones


Yawn. Okay, you want to eliminate AM BARBARIAN from your presence, my fellow arcanists and priests? The answer is so simple it has been staring you in the face all along.

Presuming that you win initiative, ready an action until AM BARBARIAN and his RAGELANCEPOUNCE have started their charge and cannot stop in time. Cast Gate one inch in front of you--the transport version which requires concentration. Make certain the gateway is facing away from you--and toward AM BARBARIAN.

CRD Says wrote:

Saving Throw: None

Spell Resistance: No

. . . it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

. . . .

The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster's choice) oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other other side.

A gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving throug the gate from the front are transported to the other plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.

Planar Travel: As a mode of planar travel, a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire (a creation effect). Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in the presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. Travelers need not join hands with you--anyone who choose to step through the portal is transported. A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

You may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level), and you must concentrate on doing so, or else the interplanar connection is severed.

They charge through the gate, where upon you stop concentrating, the gate closes, and you can focus your attention on something really important, like what to have for lunch today?

Master Arminas


Everytime I think of someoen porting AM BARBARIAN to another plane I keep getting images of Planet Hulk in my mind.

This is inevitably followed by the second part...


Perhaps we should update and rename the module: 'A Barbarian (and his Bat) In Hell.'

hahahahahah

Master Arminas


Time stop, maw of chaos, maw of chaos, maw of chaos is a good strategy for 3.5. Untyped damage, level damage per round, per spell, and that is without counting metamagic rods. Further, it also immobilizes creatures in it. However, the discussion was specific to pathfinder. The best alternative has to be to massacre his mount and seeing him drop.


master arminas wrote:

Perhaps we should update and rename the module: 'A Barbarian (and his Bat) In Hell.'

hahahahahah

Master Arminas

We knew he was worshiped as a god in at least one version of Golarion. Now we know why.

Some idiot casty gated him into another plane where he proceeded to just tear the crap out of everything in his way until they gave him godhood just so he'd plane shift out of there.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

GeneticDrift wrote:

A readied action to cast a reached (meta) euphoric tranquility does not allow a save. Then talk with the barb to get his name, make friends...Later cast trap the soul on a properly prepared gem, give as gift later. Lvl 8 spell cast at lvl9. Trap the soul is lvl8.

Don't forget command words take a standard action.

Forget damage and go for no save just die spells.

As previously noted when this tactic was suggested, spell turning reflects the spell back onto you, affecting you with no save.

Which is irrelevant to the thread's question of how you plan to inflict mega-damage to a target, but w/e.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

master arminas wrote:

Yawn. Okay, you want to eliminate AM BARBARIAN from your presence, my fellow arcanists and priests? The answer is so simple it has been staring you in the face all along.

Presuming that you win initiative, ready an action until AM BARBARIAN and his RAGELANCEPOUNCE have started their charge and cannot stop in time. Cast Gate one inch in front of you--the transport version which requires concentration. Make certain the gateway is facing away from you--and toward AM BARBARIAN.

CRD Says wrote:

Saving Throw: None

Spell Resistance: No

. . . it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

. . . .

The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster's choice) oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other other side.

A gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving throug the gate from the front are transported to the other plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.

Planar Travel: As a mode of planar travel, a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire (a creation effect). Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in the presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. Travelers need not join hands with you--anyone who choose to step through the portal is transported. A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

You may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level), and you must concentrate on doing so, or else the interplanar connection is

...

Spell sunder the gate, ride-by attack keeps on charging and ends up right next to you.

It does block his attack, though. However, there is the small problem that "cannot stop in time" is a concept that doesn't exist in PF. A moving creature can stop moving or turn at ridiculous angles... or at least, ridiculous in the real-world sense.

Your gate appears, BATTY makes a DC 15 Fly check to turn 45 degrees or more by spending 5 feet of movement, flies parallel to the gate until he gets around it, turns again with another DC 15 Fly check and flies down the back side of the gate where you are, and ends up next to you.

Now, this means the action isn't a charge any more, it's a double move by BATTY. If AM ends up next to you, he gets one non-charging melee attack, which is much less deadly but still not exactly chopped liver. Well, maybe your liver gets chopped, if he rolls well... :)

NOTE: Yeah, I'm just screwin' with you. The above scenario depends upon ruling that you can declare a charge at whatever point it becomes relevant; in such a case, any double movement in a straight line is potentially a charge, but you needn't decide if it's technically a "charge" attack until you attack something or something attacks you. That means it's not a charge by RAW if he has to turn.

What is less clear by RAW is what happens if your charge towards your designated target is blocked or interrupted. Are you literally COMPELLED to finish your movement and resolve the charge? Can you not just stop?

Also, while you do need to designate a specific target to initiate a charge, and you have to move towards that target in a straight line, no intervening obstacles or creatures, etc., the rule doesn't actually require you to *attack* that target. "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Once you have satisfied the 10-foot straight move required for charging, you get your one attack (possibly more, if RAGELANCEPOUNCE actually works), but you aren't obliged to deliver that attack to the person you were originally charging. You do have to stop moving after you attack, but that just means you don't end up getting to the target you originally envisioned, and Ride-by Attack lets you keep on chooglin' after attacking, so you end up where you wanted anyway.

Gate, it's not just for breakfast anymore... :)


TarkXT wrote:

Everytime I think of someoen porting AM BARBARIAN to another plane I keep getting images of Planet Hulk in my mind.

This is inevitably followed by the second part...

The part where he returns to wreak unholy vengeance before giving up before the end because he feels he got his point across? O_O

Dark Archive

Nicos wrote:
Regrs wrote:

Diviner Wizard level 20.

Plays first since he always wins initiative
Time-Stop (extended with rod) (4 rounds)
Mage's Disjunction (area version)
Cast Gate as a horizontal circle above our opponent
Reverse Gravity (area non-target spell, may extend by feat)

Need rule clarification for being able to cast another spell while concentrating on a previous spell.

very interesting combo

The point of this combo is to deactivate any magical item the opponent has that could allow him to ignore Reverse Gravity and Gate (used as a planeshift portal)

Make a gate to a very inhospitable plane and make him fall into it with Reverse Gravity since it allows no saves.

Quite handy, has worked before and it is a creative way to cast a "Ritual"-like "no-save just die" spell.

Advice for the OP, leave damage dice for martial classes if you want something dead and you are quite confident in yourself go for save or die/lose spells


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd rather explain why RAGELANCEPOUNCE is an utter failure in addressing the Caster-Martial Disparity when it comes to dueling, even while at the same time making life on DMs tougher than any wizard could make it.

Why the build fails going one on one versus a wizard:

1. It requires a henchmen and the henchmen, acaster henchmen at that, is more important to success than the barbarian.

2. Barbarians or martial character cannot change their strategy once it is set. Once the AM BARBARIAN build is final, the wizard wins. Wizards are powerful not because of their build, but because of their spell strategy can vary.

We can give the barbarian a year and his strategy won't change.

The wizard can come up with a different strategy on a daily basis until he wins.

3. The entire build is a one trick pony that requires a charge. Defeat the charge, defeat the build. That's not real hard to do for a wizard.

Why the barbarian is a success when addressing the caster-martial disparity versus the environment:

1. The build is as much of a nightmare for DMs to deal with as any wizard build given the average length of combats:

a. Saves as good as any class including monk and paladin.

b.Damage on par with any class including Two-weapon fighter or smiting paladins with Raging Brutality.

c. Pounce ability to make double move and make full attack by lvl 10 gives them the best mobile attack form that only over lvl 15 bards, fighters, and monks can come close to.

d. Come and Get Me raises damage output beyond any other class against single target opponents while striking first. Even 15 point buy can get up to 5 extra AoOs easily. This ability is better than any other ability in the game including the lvl 19 Two-weapon fighter ability.

e. Beast Totem natural armor class bonus cancels Reckless Abandon AC reduction giving a bonus to hit beyond what a fighter gets with weapon groups and specializtion without loss of AC.

d. Strength Surge provides a bonus on CMB and CMD untouchable by any other class allowing better use of Combat Maneuvers than any other class in the game including a monk or fighter specialization in combat maneuvers.

e. Half-level #/- damage reduction with Invulnerable Rager archetype that is better DR than any other class gets far earlier than they get it. Most classes don't get alignment based DR until lvl 15 or 20. The barbarian gets undefeatable DR from lvl 1 on.

f. Ability to break through spells with Spell Sunder. Can destroy prismatic spheres, walls of force, and other such spells better than casters, and much, much better than any other martial class. And does this ability take a standard action? Nope. It replaces one melee attack. So when every other physical damage dealer can't do a thing about spells and every caster must spend a standard or swift action to dispel spells, the barbarian merely needs one melee attack.

The above barbarian build does more damage to the value of other physical damage dealers than it does to casters. Casters still have many things they can do barbarians cannot, while physical damage dealers are overshadowed in every way by the barbarian.

So now instead of only a Caster-Martial Disparity, you have a Barbarian-Other Physical Damage dealer disparity. Fortunately most players don't make it much past tenth level, so they don't see the full power of the above barbarian build. But as a DM that runs characters to lvl 15 and above often, the above build is a nightmare as a DM. And overshadows every other physical damage dealer in the group.

The casters attack from range and their spells debilitate in one round when they work. So they aren't much affected by the barbrian.

But the two-weapon fighter and archer in our group are outdamaged by the barbarian. They miss their saves far more often he does suffering fear and other effects from missed saves. They have no DR. They only get one attack on a full move. Their to hit rolls are lower so they hit less often. And they can't get through spells like fickle wind and mirror image without help from a caster, whereas the barbarian spends on melee attack with Strength Surge to end spells in his way.

I can only say way to make the barbarian far better than any other physical damage dealer in the game. I'm sure all the players of anything other than a barbarian physical damage dealer love playing the barbarian's sidekick.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Regrs wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Regrs wrote:

Diviner Wizard level 20.

Plays first since he always wins initiative
Time-Stop (extended with rod) (4 rounds)
Mage's Disjunction (area version)
Cast Gate as a horizontal circle above our opponent
Reverse Gravity (area non-target spell, may extend by feat)

Need rule clarification for being able to cast another spell while concentrating on a previous spell.

very interesting combo

The point of this combo is to deactivate any magical item the opponent has that could allow him to ignore Reverse Gravity and Gate (used as a planeshift portal)

Make a gate to a very inhospitable plane and make him fall into it with Reverse Gravity since it allows no saves.

Quite handy, has worked before and it is a creative way to cast a "Ritual"-like "no-save just die" spell.

Advice for the OP, leave damage dice for martial classes if you want something dead and you are quite confident in yourself go for save or die/lose spells

I don't think this will work as long as your target is riding on a mount with a natural fly speed:

Reverse Gravity wrote:


Provided it has something to hold onto, a creature caught in the area can attempt a Reflex save to secure itself when the spell strikes. Creatures who can fly or levitate can keep themselves from falling.

Dark Archive

True enough although I would like to know how did a barbarian got a Flying Mount without being a druid/ranger/summoner or even Antipaladin
Also Pounce works while charging and not by charging while being mounted else we could see silly concepts like:

Gargantuan Dire Tiger (under animal growth or something like that) pounces on target while being used by a huge "awakened" dire tiger druid that also pounces, as a mount.
The "Rider" dire tiger acts also as a mount to a large awakened Tiger with Rogue/Scout-Ranger levels (COHORT) that pounces and also acts as a mount for his animal companion tiger that has been extensively trained to act as a rider and had its intelligence improved to justify its bizarre training.


Regrs wrote:

True enough although I would like to know how did a barbarian got a Flying Mount without being a druid/ranger/summoner or even Antipaladin

Also Pounce works while charging and not by charging while being mounted else we could see silly concepts like:

Gargantuan Dire Tiger (under animal growth or something like that) pounces on target while being used by a huge "awakened" dire tiger druid that also pounces, as a mount.
The "Rider" dire tiger acts also as a mount to a large awakened Tiger with Rogue/Scout-Ranger levels (COHORT) that pounces and also acts as a mount for his animal companion tiger that has been extensively trained to act as a rider and had its intelligence improved to justify its bizarre training.

leadership and synthesist cohort, or just a trained dire bat

Shadow Lodge

SILLY CASTYS! DAMMAGE AM FOR MARTIALS!


I'd like to mention that AM BARBARIAN use a synthesist as mount with leadership, therefore I don't see why you don't consider companion or leadership, as you could also take another blaster with you. Still. Get to the point;

Challenge Accepted:

Lvl19 Wizard Evoker / 1 Sorcerer crossblooded Orc/Dragon. Take Magical Knack as trait to avoid the 1 caster-level penalty.

You basically got, with any Spells of your element, 9+2/dice rolled.

Then you need the perfect spells to do so. The starting combinaison of the Contigency Force-cage seems a good way to me to be sure to not die the first round if you are duelling, but the focus of the thread seems to simply outdamage it, not duel it.

So you need to find the perfect build of spells that could outdamage on the FIRST ROUND. There, I don't think it's possible. With the use of some 3.5 content though I think it would (Twin spell ftw), but else, let's just TRY.

First we'll assume that we want to do damages one ONE SINGLE TARGET.

Because I'd like to specify that on multiple target, if you count the damage done in a round, Wail of The Bainshee itself outdamage AM BARBARIAN. So let's say that a blaster will always find is utility anyway. This done;

Scenario 1 : You consider time-stop.
Delayed blast fireball for the win. You delay all your fireball round by round by stacking them. (5round, 4round, 3rounds...) There should have 5 fireball that will blast of the second the timestop... stop. Then prepare yourself to cast IRRESISTIBLE DANCE on a delay action right when the time flow continue. (You might need to empower time stop with a rod) The -10reflex should ensure to keep the DC nearly impossible. You could even add Focused Spell metamagic. With Greater Spell Focus and Spell Perfection, you DC would be something like:
10(base)+10(irresistible dance)+4(spell focus)+2(focused spell)+INT(should be around another 10)+7(spell level) = DC Reflex 43...

So you have 5delayed fireball, all capping to 20d6. You could empower them by prepare them as a 8th spell slot (9th if focused). More, you should take Burning Spells and Spell Perfection. Make it deal 18 damage on the following round. Per fireball.

So you have 5x((30x3,5)+49) as average. Which does around 770 damage instant. A little less assuming he might wins one or two saves. Note that I don't think I'd add bloodlines bonus on empower, but if you do, you can add 20 damage/fireball to go up to 870.

770 seems pretty good to me. But what if you have Rod of MAXIMIZE over it? Cause yeah, we used empower spell normally for those lvl9 delayed fireball. So we could use a rod now.

5x(20x6+10x3,5+49)

That's right. 1020 damages. And again depending of your vision of empowered spells (if those are dice or additional damages), you could add another 20dmg/spells to go up to 1120 damages.

And as I said, if you add Burning Spell Metamagic, if your target EVER SURVIVE to 1120 damages... well, he'll take a little 90damages the following round from the burns. Nothing to puke rainbow, but it just burns his body all over. And this is at the start of his turn, so he doesn't play before those damages, which can than still be counted.

And oh, I almost forgot. You could add a quicken spell on that, why not? Something like spell perfection on Polar Ray or Contagious Flames. Additional 20d6(+49) is always welcome.

Scenario 2 : You really just want to consider damage and nothing special like time stop.

Polar Ray seems to be the best spell for dealing damage to me. May be contagious flames to.

If you want to challenge AM BARBARIAN though, you need to do this on the first round, so we'll avoid stacking some Contagious Flames, I'll let you do the maths with that if you like to. But you can do something like the first scenario without timestop, but need rounds.

So Spell Perfection on Polar Ray.
1) Quicken Polar Ray + Rod of Maximize => 169 damages.
2) Empowered Polar Ray + Rod of Maximize => 169+10x3,5 = 204 damages.

Which does a total of 373 damages. But hey. 373 damages NO SAVES and absolutely no preparation, that requires way less ressources than the first scenario.

Also if your goal is to duel AM BARBARIAN, this is the best way ever. Add Rime Spell Metamagic: AM BARBARIAN is entangled: He cannot charge. You just destroyed his build. If needed, split one polar ray to him and another to the mount to entangle them both.

And keep in mind that you should have something like 5-6 spell slot of 8th and 9th level spell. And that Without Rime spell, your polar ray still 8th level. You can do those 373 damages a LONG time before being out of ressources. And that's assuming you don't have pearl of powers or ring of wizardry.

Also never forget that you are way less build-dependant than he is. You don't need to charge, you don't need leadership, you don't need any friend... and unless you want to get that ring of wizardry 9th, you don't need any other item than some rods. Which cost way less than the AM BARBARIAN stuff for sure.


Amuny wrote:
awesome

i didn't even think about crossblooded sorc + evoker

sadly polar ray cannot be quickened through spell perfection as the effective spell slot cannot be above 9th level.

EDIT: split ray also is only psionic if we're going strictly RAW here


dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:
awesome

i didn't even think about crossblooded sorc + evoker

sadly polar ray cannot be quickened through spell perfection as the effective spell slot cannot be above 9th level.

EDIT: split ray also is only psionic if we're going strictly RAW here

doh you are damn right about polar ray.

Well you can do it with Contagious Flames than. Same maths, just more touch attacks to do :p
And with magical lineage, you could add Elemental Spell (Cold) to use Rime Spell.


Amuny wrote:
dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:
awesome

i didn't even think about crossblooded sorc + evoker

sadly polar ray cannot be quickened through spell perfection as the effective spell slot cannot be above 9th level.

EDIT: split ray also is only psionic if we're going strictly RAW here

doh you are damn right about polar ray.

Well you can do it with Contagious Flames than. Same maths, just more touch attacks to do :p
And with magical lineage, you could add Elemental Spell (Cold) to use Rime Spell.

and you can do crossblooded sorc to get more damage to cold spells too. with the evoker card, i think you found the way to deal the most damage


dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:
dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:
awesome

i didn't even think about crossblooded sorc + evoker

sadly polar ray cannot be quickened through spell perfection as the effective spell slot cannot be above 9th level.

EDIT: split ray also is only psionic if we're going strictly RAW here

doh you are damn right about polar ray.

Well you can do it with Contagious Flames than. Same maths, just more touch attacks to do :p
And with magical lineage, you could add Elemental Spell (Cold) to use Rime Spell.

and you can do crossblooded sorc to get more damage to cold spells too. with the evoker card, i think you found the way to deal the most damage

Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.


Amuny wrote:


Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.

yep, i miscalculated. i thought it was +18 instead of +9

but with spell specialization, spell perfection, and the ioun stone that increases caster level you can get the dmg up to 25d6+59

i think that's what was already calculated, but i could be doing bad math again. bodes well for my test in an hour


dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:


Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.

yep, i miscalculated. i thought it was +18 instead of +9

but with spell specialization, spell perfection, and the ioun stone that increases caster level you can get the dmg up to 25d6+59

i think that's what was already calculated, but i could be doing bad math again. bodes well for my test in an hour

With 25d6+59, you'd be looking at an approximate damage of 146.5. Maximized, this becomes 209. Don't know if that's what's calculated but... thus is math.


dragonfire8974 wrote:

I know!

precast ball lightnings can be directed as move actions so

crossblooded sorc elemental (primal) and Draconic (silver)

Intensified and empowered cold ice strike with metamagic rod to maximize it (using magical lineage to lower the metamagic cost for intensify),

magical lineaged polar ray, empowered and maximized with a rod of maximization

Ball lightning with magical lineage for energy sub cold, empowered, and maximized

sadly twin and energy admixture are not RAW for PF so they will not be included

ball lightning spell = 15d6 + 30
polar ray = 25d6 + 50
Cold ice strike = 20d6 + 40
all of which are empowered and maximized

60d6 + 30d6 + 120 + 60

60 dice are maximized for 360, avg of 30d6 is 105
360+105 +180 = 645 cold damage

without ball lightning, subtract 141 dmg

with evoker levels this goes to 684 cold dmg


Trinam wrote:
dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:


Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.

yep, i miscalculated. i thought it was +18 instead of +9

but with spell specialization, spell perfection, and the ioun stone that increases caster level you can get the dmg up to 25d6+59

i think that's what was already calculated, but i could be doing bad math again. bodes well for my test in an hour

With 25d6+59, you'd be looking at an approximate damage of 146.5. Maximized, this becomes 209. Don't know if that's what's calculated but... thus is math.

25d6+59 is empowered

there is another one that is both empowered and maximized unless rime spell is being added

217+280 = 497 cold damage from 2 polar rays


dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:


Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.

yep, i miscalculated. i thought it was +18 instead of +9

but with spell specialization, spell perfection, and the ioun stone that increases caster level you can get the dmg up to 25d6+59

i think that's what was already calculated, but i could be doing bad math again. bodes well for my test in an hour

I didn't thought that you could have a caster level over your HD. You can?

That could be way better than, because assuming your polar ray reach caster level 25, the Maximized Polar Ray would do 209 damage, and the empowered one 251. (+24 again if you assume empower spell are additional dices)

Which would do 460 instead of 373. But seems to need another way to get quicken polar ray than Spell Perfection. And Contagious flames still cap to 20d6.

But if you can reach caster level25, doing 251damage in one spell seems very easy to achieve. Then you can add whatever flavor you wish to, and a quicken spell over it.

Wonder if we can Dual Wield Rod and use a quicken and a maximized one. Not of the same spell of course I know you can't, but you could do an empowered polar ray with magical lineage (9th level) and grab a quicken rod for swift action and maximize one for standard ^^

Also I just thought about something worst about Scenario 1:
I never used quicken spell. And a rod of quicken could nearly double the number of delayed blast fireball. And we should be therefore able to reach something around 1800damages.


Jason Nelson said wrote:

Spell sunder the gate, ride-by attack keeps on charging and ends up right next to you.

It does block his attack, though. However, there is the small problem that "cannot stop in time" is a concept that doesn't exist in PF. A moving creature can stop moving or turn at ridiculous angles... or at least, ridiculous in the real-world sense.

Your gate appears, BATTY makes a DC 15 Fly check to turn 45 degrees or more by spending 5 feet of movement, flies parallel to the gate until he gets around it, turns again with another DC 15 Fly check and flies down the back side of the gate where you are, and ends up next to you.

Now, this means the action isn't a charge any more, it's a double move by BATTY. If AM ends up next to you, he gets one non-charging melee attack, which is much less deadly but still not exactly chopped liver. Well, maybe your liver gets chopped, if he rolls well... :)

NOTE: Yeah, I'm just screwin' with you. The above scenario depends upon ruling that you can declare a charge at whatever point it becomes relevant; in such a case, any double movement in a straight line is potentially a charge, but you needn't decide if it's technically a "charge" attack until you attack something or something attacks you. That means it's not a charge by RAW if he has to turn.

What is less clear by RAW is what happens if your charge towards your designated target is blocked or interrupted. Are you literally COMPELLED to finish your movement and resolve the charge? Can you not just stop?

Also, while you do need to designate a specific target to initiate a charge, and you have to move towards that target in a straight line, no intervening obstacles or creatures, etc., the rule doesn't actually require you to *attack* that target. "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Once you have satisfied the 10-foot straight move required for charging, you get your one attack (possibly more, if RAGELANCEPOUNCE actually works), but you aren't obliged to deliver that attack to the person you were originally charging. You do have to stop moving after you attack, but that just means you don't end up getting to the target you originally envisioned, and Ride-by Attack lets you keep on chooglin' after attacking, so you end up where you wanted anyway.

Gate, it's not just for breakfast anymore... :)

It has to be a charge to RAGELANCEPOUNCE; isn't the whole thing based around mounted combat and the spirited charge feat? So if he starts, he can't just say, well no, it is a double move, can he?

And as a theoretical exercise, how can he spell sunder the gate? If he swings at the portal, there is nothing there, his weapon just goes through to the plane the wiz selected. Does he just have be adjacent to a spell-effect in order to sunder it? Isn't that a little bit overpowered?

[Of course, the whole RAGELANCEPOUNCE thing is overpowered and crazy, and will never see the light of day in my campaign, so it is kind of a crazy question, I guess.]

Master Armina


Amuny wrote:
dragonfire8974 wrote:
Amuny wrote:


Already included in the maths => 169 damages come from 20x6+49.

yep, i miscalculated. i thought it was +18 instead of +9

but with spell specialization, spell perfection, and the ioun stone that increases caster level you can get the dmg up to 25d6+59

i think that's what was already calculated, but i could be doing bad math again. bodes well for my test in an hour

I didn't thought that you could have a caster level over your HD. You can?

That could be way better than, because assuming your polar ray reach caster level 25, the Maximized Polar Ray would do 209 damage, and the empowered one 251. (+24 again if you assume empower spell are additional dices)

Which would do 460 instead of 373. But seems to need another way to get quicken polar ray than Spell Perfection. And Contagious flames still cap to 20d6.

But if you can reach caster level25, doing 251damage in one spell seems very easy to achieve. Then you can add whatever flavor you wish to, and a quicken spell over it.

Wonder if we can Dual Wield Rod and use a quicken and a maximized one. Not of the same spell of course I know you can't, but you could do an empowered polar ray with magical lineage (9th level) and grab a quicken rod for swift action and maximize one for standard ^^

Also I just thought about something worst about Scenario 1:
I never used quicken spell. And a rod of quicken could nearly double the number of delayed blast fireball. And we should be therefore able to reach something around 1800damages.

well there that is.

yeah, have to use a rod of quicken to quicken a polar ray, spell perfection doesn't do it. spell specialization increases your effective caster level for all level variable effects of the spell, and spell perfection doubles that bonus.

I don't know how ray specialization works or if greater is allowed, but that gets doubled by spell perfection and would add to the damage of polar ray. that damage wouldn't get empowered though


master arminas wrote:
Stuff

The bigger problem is that you put the gate 1 inch in front of you and AM starts his attack iteration from 10-15 ft away depending on if Lunge is involved or not.


LOL I forgot completely about Rime Spell. I looked at it and thought about it, but I totally forgot that it kills charge. Yes, that's clearly the AM destroyer. . . unless AM can become immune to cold.

Edit: D'oh Freedom of Movement. . . .


Trinam wrote:
master arminas wrote:
Stuff
The bigger problem is that you put the gate 1 inch in front of you and AM starts his attack iteration from 10-15 ft away depending on if Lunge is involved or not.

If you ready the gate as soon as he closes in and he charges you your action gets resolved before his is finished. So the Barbarian WILL go into the gate because he can't react to something that has been readied on him.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jason Nelson wrote:
GeneticDrift wrote:

A readied action to cast a reached (meta) euphoric tranquility does not allow a save. Then talk with the barb to get his name, make friends...Later cast trap the soul on a properly prepared gem, give as gift later. Lvl 8 spell cast at lvl9. Trap the soul is lvl8.

Don't forget command words take a standard action.

Forget damage and go for no save just die spells.

As previously noted when this tactic was suggested, spell turning reflects the spell back onto you, affecting you with no save.

Which is irrelevant to the thread's question of how you plan to inflict mega-damage to a target, but w/e.

Please read everything involved before posting, to fact check.

Command words and rage don't mix. It is a standard action to use. It only lasts for a short time so it can't be up with out activation. Spell turning does not stop touch spells.

This well known barbarian character is not subtle, so it's not like his presence is not well known, there is no surprise at seeing him. Maybe some fear due to the many powerful mages who have died to him, but they were red shirts anyway. The wizard is not evil and helps everyone in need, so he has gained a reputation and attracted a large number of followers. AM would never try to hurt this saint. AM is probably visiting him to ask for help traveling to hell to remove all the loot and loose women, and some devil/demon slaying.

AM is ridiculous because he is "unkillable" not because of his damage.


Back with time-stop delayed fireball;

Spell Perfection (Delayed Blast Fireball)
Spell Perfection (Fireball)
Spell Focus (Evocation)
Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
Magical Lineage (Delayed Blast Fireball) - so maximized one is 9th level.

Keep rod of Quicken in hands.

Round 1: Time stop. Emp(sp) Quicken(rod) Maximized(9th level) Delayed Blast fireball (5rounds)
Round 2: QME Delayed Blast Fireball, ME Delayed Blast Fireball.
Round 3: Repeat
Round 4: Switch another rod of quicken (used three times), ME again.
Round 5: Repeat round 2.
Round 6: Time stop Ends. Quicken Irresistible Dance, ME Intensified fireball. Kaboom.

Total spell used: 8x 9th level spell + 1 5th level + 1 8th level. Ok you need that ring of wizardry or a load of pearl of powers. Or a VERY high INT. But it's *possible*.

Damage for a single Empowered Maximize Delayed Blast Fireball:
20x6+10x3,5+49 => 120+35+49 => 204. (224 again depending on your vision of empower)

9x204 => 1836 damages. Problem?

Considering empowered are dices: 2016 damages.

Even if the guy manage to get some of the Reflex Saves DC over 40, I assume it would do around 1500 damages np.

And if the guy have a ring of resist fire 20/-, blast anyway. It will remove 180 damages, which is less than the damages of a single fireball. If he has greater resist than 20/-, than you might want to look into mage's disjunction.

Edit: I'd also like to mention that those damages are done in a 20 ft radius burst area.

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