Is this because of the religion fact? Many other forums told me that Mantis-monsters can't be made because its against some form of american religion?
I highly doubt someone told you that. So far as I know the mantis plays no role in Christian, Islam, or hindu religions which are the three largest in the world. In America christianity is the largest and having grown up catholic I can say with certanty the the insect has never been mentioned in any of its teachings
If someone did tell you that, then they obviously dont know a thing about the various religions out there. Let alone the United states of America
Now for what its worth, some mantis creatures would be a nice addition I had never really considered them before because we dont really think of them in this country. Spiders, bee's, and scorpions are what we tend to think of when we think dangerous insects thus why everyone wants more of them
Just because spiders, scorpions and killer bees are dangerous to humans in the real world (and mantis not so) doesn't mean that a mantis the size of a horse or with the ability to teleport/camouflage or any other magical properties isn't dangerous to humans in the RPG-world...
I rather be caught by a scorpion or wasp than by a mantis, scorpion is one hit kill and quick death, a mantis eats you upside down and enjoy eating slowly.
Dodo's aren't dangerous to humans as wel, and look! The jubjub bird!
I'm really curious for the REAL reason all RPG-games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder (and what not?) doesn't use mantis monsters in their games, as there are enough possibilities with them and they aren't gentle at all.
I still can't believe the mantis is getting no attention at ALL.
Everyone wants more scorpions, spiders and beetles but nobody actually cares for more unique mantis monsters at all...
There isn't an insect as cool as the mantis, and only one mantis monster (I don't count indestructable gods as creature) is really a shame compared to the many spiders and scorpions in the books.
Is this because of the religion fact? Many other forums told me that Mantis-monsters can't be made because its against some form of american religion?
This is the first I've heard that mantises are somehow unclean in anyone's religion. The closest I ever even heard hinted at was to be warnd that it was bad to kill them because they eat bugs that'll ruin your garden otherwise.
Well, there is that whole Organization of Mantis-Men/Kamen Rider Assasins.
That's sort of like a Mantis Monster. They have their own prestige class even.
You mean the Red Mantis Assassins?
This is the first I've heard that mantises are somehow unclean in anyone's religion. The closest I ever even heard hinted at was to be warnd that it was bad to kill them because they eat bugs that'll ruin your garden otherwise.I still can't believe the mantis is getting no attention at ALL.
Everyone wants more scorpions, spiders and beetles but nobody actually cares for more unique mantis monsters at all...
There isn't an insect as cool as the mantis, and only one mantis monster (I don't count indestructable gods as creature) is really a shame compared to the many spiders and scorpions in the books.
Is this because of the religion fact? Many other forums told me that Mantis-monsters can't be made because its against some form of american religion?
For a second, I thought Sincubus was answering his own post O_o
I'm so confused.
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Read: "There's a group of Kamen Rider assassins in Pathfinder"
Thought to self: "There's a WHAT!? Stratagemini and Eric better be joking..."
Then I go to look it up, and sure enough. That's hilarious!
Back on topic for me: I would actually like to see a few more Good Outsiders and similar creatures. It doesn't have to be a ton of them (I know they're not very useful to most DMs), I just enjoy seeing more of the warm and fuzzy side of the planes sometimes.
Well, there is that whole Organization of Mantis-Men/Kamen Rider Assasins.
That's sort of like a Mantis Monster. They have their own prestige class even.
Humans dressed like mantis? Nah not good enough.
I'd like to see some monsters used for warfare, especially for the common races and non-evil cultures. I mean evil creatures have a lot of potential war-beasts, not so much for good or even neutral creatures.
In general I'd like to see more powerful good creatures that aren't outsiders.
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Humans dressed like mantis? Nah not good enough.Ah, but what if their leaders were changed by the power of Achaekek to have mantis-like qualities, hidden under a human guise, making them mantises dressed like men dressed like mantises?
Ah! but what if then he had to go unnoticed? Would he be a mantis dressed like a man, who is dressed like a mantis dressed like a man?
Where is the line between Man and Mantis now?
Read: "There's a group of Kamen Rider assassins in Pathfinder"
Thought to self: "There's a WHAT!? Stratagemini and Eric better be joking..."
Then I go to look it up, and sure enough. That's hilarious!
Yeah, I did a spit take when I first saw it too. When my GM showed me the picture when we were playing Crimson throne he introed them as follows: "You hear a Loud Bellow as a red form Drops from the sky. It sounds like they blur is yelling "MANTIS KICK!"
I think Mantises might have religious significance in some African mythologies, although I doubt that would bother Paizo, Given that Paizo has devils and angels which have a much larger significance for a much larger percentage of it's potential customer base.
I think we get so many spiders simply because so many people have arachnophobia or just don't like spiders. Same reason why there are more killer spider movies than killer mantis movies. Personally I like spiders and am just not scared of them. Centipedes and stinging insects are much more likely to get a "KILL IT WITH FIRE" reaction from me.
Still waiting for the awesome:
Sickle Weasel
Mukade (or Centipede Demon)
Buggane (or earth/mole giant)
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I am thinking that A-Senee-Ki-Wakw would make good additions to the ranks of the titans. These Native American giants were said to be so large that they injured the earth with their weight. A colossal giant like this would truly make an epic opponent.
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I'm really curious for the REAL reason all RPG-games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder (and what not?) doesn't use mantis monsters in their games, as there are enough possibilities with them and they aren't gentle at all.
I just told you the real reason. Mantis are not a dangerous kind of insect in North america so we dont tend to think about them in terms of dangerous monsters
Its not some huge conspiracy like you make it out to be
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I'm really curious for the REAL reason all RPG-games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder (and what not?) doesn't use mantis monsters in their games, as there are enough possibilities with them and they aren't gentle at all.I just told you the real reason. Mantis are not a dangerous kind of insect in North america so we dont tend to think about them in terms of dangerous monsters
Also, most monsters in games like Pathfinder/D&D tend to come from mythology of some sort. Our ancient ancestors in cultures like Egypt, Greece, and central Africa believed that the mantis was a symbol of good luck. The bushmen of central Africa even viewed them as divine messengers and psychopomps. Since they are very helpful creatures, combined with the lack of danger to humans they were never imagined as evil beings and so the collective human psyche never created any mantis monsters. I did a little digging and the only mantis related monsters I could find were simple variations on the giant mantis, ala the first Bestiary and most of them were from video games.
Just because spiders, scorpions and killer bees are dangerous to humans in the real world (and mantis not so) doesn't mean that a mantis the size of a horse or with the ability to teleport/camouflage or any other magical properties isn't dangerous to humans in the RPG-world...
I rather be caught by a scorpion or wasp than by a mantis, scorpion is one hit kill and quick death, a mantis eats you upside down and enjoy eating slowly.
Dodo's aren't dangerous to humans as wel, and look! The jubjub bird!
I'm really curious for the REAL reason all RPG-games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder (and what not?) doesn't use mantis monsters in their games, as there are enough possibilities with them and they aren't gentle at all.
Er . . . thri-kreen? I distinctly remember butchering hundreds of them on my 486 playing Shattered Lands.
The man is keeping the mantis lovers down! Row row fight the powah!
America is such a strange country...
What doesn't kill you in America isn't worthfull of being made a monster? What kind of sillyness is that?
Anyway I never seen Dodo's, House Kittens and Beetles kill humans, and look there they are in the bestiaries!
And especially for the spider lovers:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2933065059_e944f0538f.jpg
I'm also pretty sure the scythe got its roots from the mantis.
Honestly, the real reason the mantis probably isn't as well represented is that spiders and scorpions are poisonous and in most people's heads, poison = scary = awesome to throw at people. Plus, at least with spiders, there are so many spiders that do some crazy things that you can make a lot of monsters for them. You have spiders that jump, spiders that build crazy webs, spiders that hunt on foot, spiders that hide in traps, spiders that swim, spiders that look like ants... see where I'm going with this?
But hey, the mantis is pretty well represented in Golarion with the Red Mantis Assassin group.
Plus there is that "Mantis god" that the red mantis worship, I find it strange that it is male though. They did his stats in 3.5 though but I think he was like CR30.
It would be nice to have something like the She-mantis from Buffy the Vampire Slayer stated up for Pathfinder.
America is such a strange country...
What doesn't kill you in America isn't worthfull of being made a monster? What kind of sillyness is that?
Anyway I never seen Dodo's, House Kittens and Beetles kill humans, and look there they are in the bestiaries!
And especially for the spider lovers:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2933065059_e944f0538f.jpgI'm also pretty sure the scythe got its roots from the mantis.
Stop taking what I say out of context. I didnt say a mantis wouldnt be worth making into a monster (in fact I agreed that they would be a nice addition). I said we just dont tend to think about them in terms of dangerous insects and monsters.
There's no reason mantis monsters cant be included in a bestiary they are just overlooked
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beyond the giant mantis what sort of mantis monsters could you make? there's already a mantis god, but it works alone so mantis outsiders might be a bit odd. I suppose you could make a Demon or Devil mantis. And of Course a Magical beast and an undead mantis.
Mantis Golems with Scythes instead of Claws could be cool. And there are probably some Fey mantises about. But what after that?
beyond the giant mantis what sort of mantis monsters could you make? there's already a mantis god, but it works alone so mantis outsiders might be a bit odd. I suppose you could make a Demon or Devil mantis. And of Course a Magical beast and an undead mantis.
Mantis Golems with Scythes instead of Claws could be cool. And there are probably some Fey mantises about. But what after that?
After that there are at least 8 different types of mantis monster and it becomes time to move on to something else. :P
beyond the giant mantis what sort of mantis monsters could you make? there's already a mantis god, but it works alone so mantis outsiders might be a bit odd. I suppose you could make a Demon or Devil mantis. And of Course a Magical beast and an undead mantis.
Mantis Golems with Scythes instead of Claws could be cool. And there are probably some Fey mantises about. But what after that?
There are many possibilities with their scythes, colours, praying status, camouflage and gruwesome eating voracity.
I never liked Phase Spiders, I think mantis would be a better one with teleporting abilities, also impaling ones and demonic/undead mantis, mantis that restrict teleporting by having some magical anchor aura.
The mantis dragon http://www.elfwood.com/art/d/d/ddionne/mdragon.jpg
But one mantis-monster would be enough, I just don't like monster-gods that are one of a kind, mantis-men (are good but not what i'm after) and the NORMAL giant mantis is okay but a bit boring and non-monstrous next to all the magical spiders and scorpions.
Just a monstrous giant mantis with strange abilities would be cool, or some demonic mantis, like bebilith gone-mantis.
Or a she-mantis monster from the Inuyasha series.
Of all the types possible, my least favorite is Construct, so I rather have a undead, outsider or magical beast mantis.
Kaiju
Kaiju
Oh god yes. Unfortunately JJ said that they scrapped the template for Kaiju because he wasn't happy with it. If anything, they are just going to be unique monsters, like the Spawn of Rovagug.
Oh man, Kaiju would be awesome. Even if they ARE unique monsters they'll be cool. there's only so much you can do with Behemoths and Spawn. They're pretty much tied up in the divine. I want my God Lizards. I suppose tehre's a big moth Herald of Desna already too...
What would a Kaiju have? Regeneration? DR Epic?
It'd be cool to see how they are created. LIke, a lizard nearby arcane weapons of mass destruction testing or something...
I'd like to see more Daemons... much more daemons! Daemons to fill the void!
I think they based Tarrasque on that Kaiju-thing anyway, big and destructive...
I wanna see some magical skunk, clam and HermitCrab monsters.
BTW Mothra = Extreme LOL
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Another request: that each and every monster published in the adventure paths that haven't yet made the jump into a bestiary gets added into the 4th one.
Some earwig magical beast or demon, maybe a vermin lord-type creature.
We don't even have just plain old giant earwigs yet so I am adding them to the wishlist.
Another request: that each and every monster published in the adventure paths that haven't yet made the jump into a bestiary gets added into the 4th one.
On that note, I'd like to see the lava child from misfit monsters redeemed make the cut.
I'd love to see some of the types of mimics they mention in Dungeon Denizens Revisited.
1 - Magical Beast Mantis creatures, or demonic/undead/aberration mantis monsters.
2 - Hound of ill omen
3 - Some Spawn Toad (spawns small toads from back) monster or demon, maybe subspecies of Hezrou or hydrodeamon.
4 - Something magical beastisch with Piranha monsters.
5 - The chesire cat from Alice in Wonderland
6 - The other (more awesome in my opinion) Leshies based on carnivorous plants and cacti that were mentioned in the third bestiary. (but not with childisch art, more like the fungal leshy)
7 - Ghost Ship
8 - More moth-based monsters
9 - Cactus based monsters
10 - Urchin based monsters (not just GIANT urchin, more magical variants)
11 - A creature that controls gravity
12 - A creature that absorbs metals/stuff into its skin.
13 - More magical and strange oozes.
14 - Argus
15 - Hyakume (the asian eyeball monster)
16 - IF there HAVE to be more dragons... then 5 more chromatic dragons, purple, brown, orange, grey and yellow.
17 - Spirit Sword based monsters, possessed swords or whatever, just a sword spirit.
18 - Magical Beast Chameleons
19 - Dunkleosteus (the plate-armor fish)
20 - Some evil Thrae creatures, maybe humanoid wasp.
21 - Domovoi
22 - Some twin monsters that can merge and split from eachother.
23 - Magical Clam monsters
24 - Magical Skunk monsters
25 - Buggane the mole/earth giant
26 - Antaeus the greek earth-based giant
27 - Abaia the giant eel that likes to flood land areas
28 - Tooth Fairy (evil, scary version, like from a nightmare)
29 - Drop Bear
30 - Mudman
31 - Bakeneko (the asian demonic cat)
32 - I don't care how you call it, but a nine-tailed fox with cool artwork.
33 - Mukade the giant demonic centipede from asian legends. (or any demonic centipede you can think off)
34 - Bloody Bones
35 - Sickle Weasel (forgot its asian name)
36 - Therizinosaurus
37 - Gorgonopsid (prehistoric beast just like dimetrodon)
38 - Some dragonfly magical beasts or dragonfly folk. (much like swordwing from D&D)
39 - More special bat monsters
40 - More strange beetles (like the deathwatch and a special bombard beetle)
41 - Stegocentipede
42 - Namazu (the earthquake catfish)
43 - Earwig monsters (but not only swarm and giant earwig)
44 - Some evil Couatl variant
45 - Fomorian Giant
46 - Firbolg
47 - Lorelei
48 - Petchuchos the egyptian crocodile monster
49 - Some creature based on the horror movie the thing
50 - Baboon based horrors
Well that's all for now.
Has anyone mentioned the Annunaki? If not, then I throw them into the ring for consideration!
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Yeah. I tried doing that a week or two ago and I gave up a few pages in. If you're still on one of the first three or so pages, I could send you the Excel sheet I was whipping up, but I'll note that I wasn't checking for multiple posts by the same people, so some people's votes may be counted twice on it.
Edit: Actually, I'm having to leave for a mother's day dinner and am not sure if I can wait for a reply. I'll just post what I have so far in case it helps. I don't guarantee perfect accuracy, but it will hopefully at least assist.
Undead 1
Skeletons and Zombies that retain skills but are at base power level 1
Undead sailors 1
Undead that retains powers from life and can be reanimated with create undead 1
Variant vampires 1
Elder vampire 3
Nosferatu 1 Exist A
Variant mummies 1
Nonevil undead 1
Undead vermin 1
Undead dragon that breathes flaming skulls 1
Demodands 1
Azatas 2
Angels 3
Agathions 1
Archons 2
Qlippoths 1
Rakshasha 1
Titans 1
Oni 2
Positive Energy Plane Denizens 2
Proteans 2
Proteans: CR 20 1
Aeons 2
Inevitables 1
Demons 1
Demons: Manes 1 Exist C
Nightshades 1
Nightshades: Lower CR 1
Elementals 4
Elementals: Fire-and-water-but-not-steam 1
Elementals: Alchemical / periodic table 1
Elementals: Life 1
Elementals: Time 1
Darkness-focused celestials / good shadow-related monsters 1
Alien / ugly celestials 3
Plane of time denizens / temporal monsters 4
Goatmen 1
Berbalang 1 Exist B
War apes 1
Demonic idol from cover of PHB 1 Exist C
Jackalope 1
Frost Salamander 1
El Tunche 1
Apu 1
Yawar Supai 1
Alicorns 1
Caerbernog 1
Squonk 1
Hodag 1 Exist A
Dingonek 1
Wolpertinger 1
Mooncalf 1 Exist C
Sentient Diseased Mold 1
Shapeshifting cyborg robots 1
Chitine 1
Sentient rolling stones 1
Monsters from The Thing 1 Exist C
Shadow-replacing monsters 1
Sentient objects 1
Large slugs 1
Slender Man 2 Exist C
Zombie-werewolf-lich-vampire hybrid 1
Person-eating water 1
Mind flayer 2 Exist C
Dire weasel 1
Beholder 1 Exist C
Carrior Crawler 1 Exist C
Rusting swarms 1
Snake Dragon 1
Raw divine energy 1
Intelligent ooze that possesses 1
Construct that seeks humanity 1
Dire chihuaha 1
Feathered dragon 1
Wearable armor construct 1
Spider that spins webs of blood 1
Sword-tail scorpion 1
Cerberus 2 Exist A
Sidhe 2
Slaugh 1
Fairy Godmother 1
Cordyceps-based creature 1
Ouroboros 1
Giant Rodents 1
Sentient disease 1
Remnants of an earlier existance 1
Gorgimera 1
Guivre 1
Gorynych 1
King Kong 2
Kercpa 1 Exist C
Achiyalabopa 1
Almiraj 1
Greys 1
Orthrus 1
Alraune 1 Exist B
Cait Sith 1
Cu Sith 1
Puca 1
Alp Luachra 1
Drop Bears 1
Barong 1
Bakeneko 1
Ninetails 1
Ladon 1
Argus 1
Gogmagog 1
Nemean Lion 1
Teumessian Fox 1
Fenrir 1
Voydanoi 1
Animal Lords 1 Exist B
Jack o Lantern 1
Jack Frost 1
Zemu 1
Bugul Noz 1
Urubus 1
Deer Woman 1
Flying Snake 1
Empusa 1
Fir Bolg 1
Genbu 1
Byakko 1
Suzaku 1
Seiryu 1
Nilbog 1
Ushemoi 1 Exist C
Ogrekin 1 Exist B
Half-Halflings 1
Half-Linnorms 1
Half-Dragons 1 Exist B
Variant Hydras 1
0HD Anything 1
0HD Ponies 1
0HD Nonhuman-looking 1
0HD Wolffolk 1
0HD Plants 1
0HD Rabbitfolk 1
0HD Mousefolk 1
0HD Tiny Race 1
0HD Race that grows in size as it levels 1
Mythological Creatures 5
Mythological Creatures: Not Europe 1
Mythological creatures: Peruvian monsters 1
Mythological creatures: Egyptian monsters 1
Cryptids 2
Creatures from earlier editions 1
Creatures from the Adeventure Paths (particularly 3.5) 2 Exist A
Creatures from literature 2
Animals 3
Vermin 2
Original creatures 2
Robots 4
Robots: Cyborgs 1
Urban legends 1
Colossal monsters 1
Mutants 1
Gremlins 2
Fey 4
Fey: Fae of Cities 1
Dragons 3
Oriental Dragons 1
Linnorms 3
Linnorms: Low Level 1
Giants 1
Golems 1
Tane 2
Lamiae 1
Creatures that mimic objects 1
Plants 2
Spawn of Rovagug 2
Epic Monsters 2
Hags 2
Monsters from the Diablo series 1 Exist C
Nagas 1
High CR melee monsters 1
Monsters that move through mirrors 2
Jellyfish 2
Shadow monsters 2
Lovecraftian monsters 3
Lovecraftian: Familiar 1
Curse-inflicting creatures 1
Cats 1
Familiars 1
Horrific Abominations 1
Constructs 2
Constructs: Low Level 2
Non-ooze alchemical monsters 1
Romantic monsters 2
Dire animals 1
Magical monsters that can be pet 1
Real-world sea creatures 2
Space-related monsters 1
Monsters from other planets 1
Bio-robots 1
Small dragons 1
Symbiotic creatures 1
Monsters that feed on emotion 1
Monsters made by Eric Meepo 1 Exist C
Urban monsters 1
Creatures that deal mental damage 1
Luck-based monsters 1
Nonundead that create undead 1
Swarms of new subtypes 1
Monsters that require specific methods to kill 1
Templates 1
Swarm Template 1
Multi-Headed Template 1
Wow that took a lot of work with 18+ pages to look through. I see a lot things on that list that I voted for;)
Good effort! Thanks!
I got through the first page so far, but in the course of that I revised my categories a bit so I had to switch up the spreadsheet.
Here's a repost on some of the more New World ideas I posted based on Mayan, Aztec and Taino mythology to help out a bit, including revised descriptions.
Coatlicue: A beautiful lady with a skirt of serpents, like Apostle of Gygax said, she is a force of life and death. Mixing the classic mythology with her appearance in Golden Sun, I'd make her a beautiful fey or outsider with the skirt of snakes and a large water jug filled with healing water.
Xmulzencab/Ahmuzencab: A 'swarm of bees' demon. Looking through the bestiaries, we don't have any 'living swarm' type of monsters, except maybe the Worm that Walks. The first name is Aztec while the second is Mayan and more named after a bee deity.
Cipactli: A massive underground primordial fish-caiman monster. Similar to the tarrasque in sheer terror and danger, it has maws on it's elbows and knees and multiple legs. Perhaps it could have tongues that try to grasp people and pull it into it's many jaws. Would make a great Tarrasque-like monster. A subterranean caiman-like monstrosity with mouths on its knees/elbows.
Nagual: In recent times, it is a witch that transforms into an animal (usually jaguar) to drink the blood of people, spread curses, and give diseases. In the past though, they were spirits of nature that lived side by side with people and protected them.
With the first one, it's not so much a monster as a template update to the Animal Lord in the Bestiary 3. Essentially, add an ability for it to drink blood and curse and BOOM, instant Nagual :)
Jaguars: Because Jaguars are awesome! I'd imagine they would be similar to Leopards but with a greater jaw strength. Plus, jaguar animal companion would be cool.
Totochtin: From Centzon Totochtin, they were 'rabbit deities' that were immortal and enjoyed alcohol quite a bit. Imagine an Aztec version of the Tanuki, minus the giant scrotum ;)
Itzli: Itzli and many gods prefixed by the word Itz- all have to do with obsidian. I'm sure we can use this for obsidian golems.
Flayed Ones: A bit of an original creation here. Imagine a ghost or rotting corpse that wears the flayed skin of it's last victim and it goes after people to take their skin. I've based it on the practices of priests of Xipe Totec (Our Lord the Flayed One) who would flay people alive as part of their sacrifice.
Xiuhcoatl: A terrifying fire serpent of epic proportions. Like Cipactli, I'd say tarrasque levels of danger for this one.
Cemi: Like I said a bit earlier, they admittedly have similarities to kami. I'd like to imagine carvings (bone, wood, stone) given life.
Toa: Spirits of abandoned children left by their mothers at riversides and lake shores. Frog-like in appearance (i'd imagine like a tree frog), they constantly cry out 'toa toa' to their lost mothers. In the Folklore, there is a story of a man that tricked all the women into leaving their villages and children. Without anyone that could breastfeed them (since only the fathers were left), the children would continue to make a 'toa' sound until they all unfortunately 'died' and became frog creatures.
For Pathfinder, I think it'd be an interesting type of aquatic/jungle undead. Have Small sized humanoid frogs that are thin and constantly cry out their name, trying to lure women (usually mothers) to their doom. Whether it's out of malice or want of a mother... is up to the GM of course :)
Opia: A form of undead that look as they did in real life, minus their naval. Sleep in caves all day and come out at night to devour fruit. Corporeal unless attacked, and they use fear to drive people away. Hitting them in the stomach would probably stun them.
That's all I can muster at the moment. I think I'll come up with a list of beasts and monsters from North and South America later.