Magus Archetype Feedback


Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion

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Senior Designer

Hey everyone,

We're hard at work on finishing the magus, and one of the things we're working on is the magus archetypes. We have a pretty good list so far, but before the playtest ends, we wanted to ask all of you, what kind of magus archetypes would you like to see in Ultimate Magic and beyond? Post your ideas here!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Something that could emulate the Duskblade, with casting spells thru 2h weapons ?

Dark Archive

How about what the duelist always should have been? Like some means of using Int as an add-on for AC and damage relative to level?

Beyond that, I'd just love it if some buffs were done a la Summoner, made lower level so you can have them earlier. I'm sure you've already thought of some cool touch spells that are potentially magus-only. Maybe previously never arcane buffs like Righteous Might?


I'd like a higher mobility duelist type that trades medium/heavy armor for improved mobility.

I could go for a ranged version more reliant on rays than touch spells. Maybe with throwing weapons instead of a bow as to not overlap too much with Arcane Archer. Knife-knife-knife-SCORCHING RAY!

Dark Archive

I would very much like to see a Magus that sacrifices some of his martial prowess and maybe his heavy armor for the ability to (Eventually) cast two spells (With a casting time of 1 action or less) as a full-round action.


Mustketeer
Swashbuckler
Diabolical aristocrat (will need changed spell list)
Magical dabbler
Multiple personality disorder
Indiana Jones (using arcane pool to place damage abilities on a whip)
Half Orc Rage Mage
Pirate Captain
Staff fighting martial artist


Something that can use 2-handed weapons.

Grand Lodge

I'll agree with a staff fighter.

Spell and pistol
Ritual lord (not so much spell combat, focuses on casting really big spells using the arcane pool)
Mage aristocrat (skills, persuasion, intimidation, leadership and teamwork)
Multiclass magus (10-15 levels with more options to work with other spellcasting and/or mobile martial classes)


A varient that allows me to apply the magic enhancement bonuses to armor.


Midnightoker wrote:
A varient that allows me to apply the magic enhancement bonuses to armor.

That's a good call.

Some archetypes that let you reduce the MAD of the class in different ways.

A Duelist style one (as already mentioned) that is Dex-Int.

A Rage Mage (Str-Con? with Arcane Pool, but not saves bonus spells etc., dependent on Con instead of Int?)

Aristocratic style one is a good idea too, perhaps allowing Int-Cha to work somehow.

+1,000 to the archetype of a Staff fighter who can use spell combat while using a staff to fight with, and gains benefits to the staff while doing so. That would be really cool.

An unarmored more casting based archetype as well as the more armored (earlier) duskblade style archetype.

Magi who specialize in different schools (not gaining bonus spells, but gaining different combat effects based on school?). Illusion Magi could spend points to activate rounds of a "blur" style ability or some other tomfoolery. Some kind of Fire Shield ability for evocation style Magi. Crazy athletic moves for a Transmutation style magi. Some kind of teleporting fighter for a conjuration based magi. These would be SUPER COOL and would lead to certain "schools" of combat and varying styles to differentiate Magi from one another.

Non-related: Since I know you guys are reading this thread...please give the weapon enhancing ability Magi get at first level an actual name so that we all can refer to it more easily.

Dark Archive

Two weapon and two-handed weapon Magi.

A version that focuses more on Arcane Pool (though I think that's better for a prestige class)

A variant with access to Sorcerer Bloodlines (possibly at the cost of most or all of its Arcane Pool?). This archetype would allow it to qualify for Dragon Disciple and any other bloodline related PrC's that come down the pipe.

A variant which focuses less on martial ability and more on skills/social stuff. More skills and class skills. Perhaps lose the ability to enhance weapon to add to skill checks or something.

A mobile archetype that has some kind of better Spell Strike at the cost of Spell Combat. Some kind of Mobile Fighter/Magus hybrid.


I'd like to see an archetype for the magus (and a sorcerer bloodline) that gives healing spells.

I know this does not fit the classic D&D roles, but there are other references (Gandalf/Circle of the Magi from Dragon Age: Origins/probably others).

Grand Lodge

Devout magus (abjuration, anti-undead, demon-fighting and general "white magic" / quasi-clerical focus)


Archer magus?


Since the whole idea behind the magus is mixing martial combat and casting into a stabacadabra, why not try to work on allowing different magus archetypes to enable different styles of fighting? For example, the vanilla magus is highly fightery, so an archetype can make a more stealthy magus that taps into the rogue.


I would also say that making a magus with different fighting styles would be nice, but its tough not to prance around the fighting style scenarios to stamping on fighters and such. A ranged magus could easily make the Arcane Archer obsolete.

I would like to see a boon to casting certain schools as a magus with certain fighting styles.

Perhaps something like these:

Lose a school or some arcana or what have you

Beguiling Blade (enchantment and weapon finesse)
Necrotic Scythe (necromancy and criticals)
Forcful Shielding (abjuration and shields as a weapon)
Fist Mirage (Illusion and unarmed)
Reversing Visions (divinations with reactive combat manuevers)
Element magus (element focused)

ect.

Also an archetype that makes heavy armor optional and medium armor also optional.

Maybe expanding on using magic items as weapons (staffs, wands, ect)


Only because I'm sure you wouldn't honestly consider it without one more person saying it...but a staff/double weapon magus really needs to exsist.

Other than that, an unarmed magus, with a theme sorta like the oathsworn from arcana evolved...using magic to make up for not relying on equipment.

I'm liking the indiana jones/simon belmont whip magus idea...just not sure how to mechanically impliment it.


Fraust wrote:

Only because I'm sure you wouldn't honestly consider it without one more person saying it...but a staff/double weapon magus really needs to exsist.

Other than that, an unarmed magus, with a theme sorta like the oathsworn from arcana evolved...using magic to make up for not relying on equipment.

I'm liking the indiana jones/simon belmont whip magus idea...just not sure how to mechanically impliment it.

Re-print Scorpion Whip from the Arms and Equipment supplement. You could already use that with a Magus, and it might be real effective. Then just make an archetype (ooooooh how I miss the 3.0 Lasher PrC!) that can do cool tricks with a whip in place of Arcana progression.

Lantern Lodge

I'd chime in with a touch-spell Martial artist, something like a monk/sorc, but there aren't that many spells (are there?) that would be a fair fit.

Dark Archive

Here's an expansion of something I saw in one of the other threads on this board.

Start with Magus
Monk Proficiencies
Monk Unarmed Damage
Monk AC Bonus/CMD Bonus (Int Based)
Monk Flurry BAB
Monk Unarmed Strike
Saves: Ref, Will

Adjust as necessary, but basically a monk-styled magus.

Silver Crusade

I always wanted to build a Daggerspell Mage as the idea behind it seemed interesting thematically. The idea that that Magus channels his power through his weapon reminded me of it. So if there were some sort of rogue-like build, I sure would roll one up :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Well, someone has to say it, so it may as well be me...

The Arcane Warrior

(Full BAB. Cantrips at 1st level. Paladin spell progression for 1st- and higher-level spells.)


Epic Meepo wrote:

Well, someone has to say it, so it may as well be me...

The Arcane Warrior

(Full BAB. Cantrips at 1st level. Paladin spell progression for 1st- and higher-level spells.)

And I might as well be the one to state the obvious.

That is not a Magus archetype either. An arcane paladin maybe,but not a archetype for this class as it is a total rewrite.


I have to second the call for a ranged magus. (It doesn't have to necessarily be tied to archery...)

Something that can elegantly flow into arcane archer would be amazing. (or for those games that allows the guns (that are in the world already, albeit extremely rare) allowing a gun mage type magus)

Also: perhaps a magus focused around fighting other casters (which is termed by us as the Spellbinder) -- focuses on the abilities like the Dispelling Strike and Counterstrike features. [For a D&D equivalent look towards Occult Slayer, Suel Arcanamach, or even Spellthief. Other examples are the Chantry's Templars from DragonAge and the Rune Knight class from Final Fantasy IV (Celes Chere).]


Midnightoker wrote:

I would also say that making a magus with different fighting styles would be nice, but its tough not to prance around the fighting style scenarios to stamping on fighters and such. A ranged magus could easily make the Arcane Archer obsolete.

Doesn't the normal magus make the EK as 'obsolete' as a ranged magus would make the arcane archer? I, for one, welco^H see no problem with a ranged variant of the magus. AA would still be a viable PrC for such a character due to the Magus' lousy staying power at 9+. They could have different focus':

A ranged magus would cast ranged touch/touch spells with arrows. He doesn't get the AA's fireball arrows.

Darkholme wrote:


Start with Magus
Monk Proficiencies
Monk Unarmed Damage
Monk AC Bonus/CMD Bonus (Int Based)
Monk Flurry BAB
Monk Unarmed Strike
Saves: Ref, Will

(IIRC: Flurry was replaced with Spell Combat. It wasn't clear if spell combat got the +1BaB or not. I think that might be too powerful. Monk AC Int based is too powerful (for an arcane class? Hell EVERY wizard would dip to get this).)

As I said in that thread, I <3 this idea and hope it is published in UM with the magus and not in X months when they get around to another book. This idea is, IMHO, far more fun sounding than any other I've heard in a while.

I'd like to see archetypes for the following:
Bow/Crossbow, Thrown Weapons, Two Handed weapons, QStaff/Staff, TWF(twin light weapons only; aka Daggerspell Magus), Mounted*

*I think every martial class needs a mounted archetype. In campaigns where being mounted is a viable option, it's nice to have class support for it instead of blowing feats. On that subject, I'd really like to see a 'Cavalier' archetype w/o a mount and don't know why it wasn't a core choice in the class (See: Animal Companion vs Domain|Ranger's Link; mount v holy spirit; familiar v arcane bond). The witch's familiar doesn't bother me as much as it's not as big of an impact in combat/movement as a mount feature is. Still, I think all classes w/fuzzy buddies and all martial classes need mounted and unmounted options. I went off on a tangent there huh?


I'd love to see a wuxia style "Ascetic Magus", who delivers spells through monk-style unarmed strikes, and uses his arcane pool to gracefully zip and jump (maybe even jaunt) across the battlefield.

Another thing I would like to see is a ranged combat magus - perhaps one who can use a hand crossbow (or revolver?) or thrown weapon with Spell Combat, perhaps eventually gaining the ability to deliver touch spells through arrows, bolts, bullets, or what have you.


I'd like to see at least one Golarion specific archetype (similar to Aldori Swordlord and Chelexian Devil Binder).


And an arcane trickster type magus


A way for a magus archetype to access wizard schools abilities


A "sorcerous magus" would be a good option, as well - replace int-based prepared casting with cha-based spontaneous casting, give them the Bard/Inquisitor/Summoner spells known table, and any abilities that key off prepared spell casting are similarly replaced. I think it has a reasonable reason to exist - someone who has a sorcerous bloodline might also choose to split their studies between the martial and magical.

I'd also like to see a master strategist magus, whose studies also extend to tactics. Probably would involve teamwork feats.

Oh! And for the monk-style magus, producing magical blasts or waves of energy from your bare hands by using your arcana pool is a must. An arcana that allows you to project your melee attacks as ranged attacks (as a force effect, using dex to hit, but str for damage, like a thrown weapon) would be awesome for any magus.

Liberty's Edge

an archetype that focuses on his weapon allowing him to increase his weapon properties list to get things like bane added to it


+1 for the sorceror arche-type option, as i remember many calling for the magus to be spontaneous.
Also, i´d like to to have a ligthly and medium armored arch-type, seperatly, as the Full-Plate-Rapier/Schimitar-optimising-combo we would see a lot of seems a little... strange.

The Exchange

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

Hey everyone,

We're hard at work on finishing the magus, and one of the things we're working on is the magus archetypes. We have a pretty good list so far, but before the playtest ends, we wanted to ask all of you, what kind of magus archetypes would you like to see in Ultimate Magic and beyond? Post your ideas here!

Why not let one of the RPG Superstars come up with one? Make that the challenge.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

In addition to many of the above, I would like to see:

A Ghost Warrior Magus that focuses more on the spiritual side of magic as a sort of shaman-warrior. His familiar would be ethereal and can spend his arcane pool points and spell slots to summon ghostly ancestor or nature spirit allies that can fight beside him for a round or two or even buff the magus during the fight.

A Runecaster Magus who casts his spells through runes and can use two-handed weapons like a spear or polearm. The weapon is carved with arcane runes and channels spells through it, making it his focus for the spells. If he loses the weapon, he can create another, but he must carve runes in it first. He can also carve the runes onto armor allowing him to channel spells into the armor and add enchantement bonuses to it like he does his weapon. His spells would focus more on touch spells and buffing and a little less on blasting. He might even have runic tattoos that he can buff himself with.

A Weapon Throwing Magus that would focus on channeling spells through his thrown weapons such as the throwing axe, daggers, hammers, etc. Call him a skirmisher or harrier, maybe?

An Arcane Commander/Warlord/Marshal/Strategist Magus that uses his Intelligence to fight by outthinking his enemies and has abilities to support that. Perhaps an ability or two that allow him to buff allies with his knowledge and advice would be good - like the Guide Archetype for the Ranger.

A Youxia Magus who focuses on fighting unarmed and has high mobility options in his arcane pool, while focusing his magic attacks on using certain energies such as fire, cold, or electricity. The elemetal thing could be sort of like the elemental school-focused wizards in the APG or like the Monk of the Four Winds Archetype.

A Bodyguard Magus who defends against both magical and physical threats to his charge with new arcane pool abilities such as a granting spell resistance to his charge for one round as an immediate action if they are within 10 feet of his position.

The Enchanting Magus whose spells focus on the illusion and enchantment schools. His arcane pool abilities would have some mind-affecting abilities, including a hypnosis ability and a charm ability.

Wizard school style focused Magus (i.e. transmutation, divination, conjuration, etc.)

Element Shaper Magus focused on manipulating a certain element of either air, earth, fire, or water - sort of like the characters in the Avatar, The Last Airbender TV show.

A Shapeshifting Magus

A Mounted Magus


Repeating some of the above suggestions, I'd love to see the following:

Archer Magus
Swashbuckling Magus (only light armour, perhaps gain some rogue-like abilities)
Unarmed Magus
Spontaneous Magus (perhaps several of these, all pact-based?)
Hexblade (curses opponents, like the witch - although give it a different name)

Shadow Lodge

R. Doyle wrote:
Why not let one of the RPG Superstars come up with one? Make that the challenge.

I support this suggestion. +1 Doyle!

I would also like to second the Spell and Pistol suggestion from up-thread. I like that idea.


I'd like to see a Hexblade type for the Magus.
Something that grants a pact like the Witch's patron, and grants a few scaling abilities (bonus points to Arcane pool, pact weapon that can be summoned, that kind of thing).


Arcane Sword Magus. It could get an ability similar to divine bond. This Magus could put enchantments on his blade for so many mins per day.


Definitely like the thought of a Magus being able to emulate the fighting styles of the different melee classes.

A more Roguish Magus for example. It doesn't need Trapfinding necessarily but a blend of class abilities and new arcane pool tricks/spells to allow the archetype to feel more like a Rogue would be very cool.

Same goes for Barbarian...Paladin...

Perhaps kinds that build off of different abilities?

Fast Magus (for some additional synergies with Dex)
Strong Magus (" " Strength)
Tough Magus (" " Con)
Wise Magus (" " Wis)

Not sure entirely what this would be, just throwing it out there.

Or a similar thing but with alignment based themes, such as:

Lawful Magus
Chaotic Magus
Good Magus
Evil Magus

Their spell list could change a bit as well as their Arcane Pool allowing some additional boosts (such as anarchic or unholy wep enhancements).

...Lastly would a Magus with an Animal Companion be too much? Because if that could work out, I would love to see it.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:

The Arcane Warrior

(Full BAB. Cantrips at 1st level. Paladin spell progression for 1st- and higher-level spells.)

That is not a Magus archetype either. An arcane paladin maybe,but not a archetype for this class as it is a total rewrite.

I'm not requesting a paladin or ranger who has arcane spells and a few magus class features. I'm requesting an archetype that has every single magus class feature (no text appearing under the heading "Class Features" changed whatsoever) with a few numbers changed on its advancement table.

According to Sean K. Reynolds, you cannot make what I'm requesting with a paladin or ranger archetype. You can't have an archetype that takes the paladin or ranger chassis, rips out every single paladin or ranger class feature, and then inserts every single magus class feature.

Sean K. Reynolds quote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

I'd say that when an archetyped member of a class no longer really looks like it's part of that class, you've gone too far. Frex, if you take away armor & weapon profs from a fighter, but give him Improved Unarmed Strike and limit his bonus feats to things relating to unarmed combat, is the character really a fighter, or should he instead be an archetyped monk that loses mystical abilities and focuses on the physical combat?

Likewise, a wizard that can't cast spells isn't a wizard, a druid that doesn't have nature powers isn't a druid, and so on.

According to that statement, the archetype I am requesting cannot be done using the paladin or ranger class. At all. That's why I'm requesting it as a magus archetype.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Draco Caeruleus wrote:
Hexblade (curses opponents, like the witch - although give it a different name)

If they also add some witch spells to the spell list, they could call it a warlock. :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
what kind of magus archetypes would you like to see in Ultimate Magic and beyond? Post your ideas here!

Here's one that tweaks the class in the direction of a Cleric/Magus hybrid:

Arcane Zombie Hunter

In the rural villages of Ustalav, those who practice and teach the skills of an undead-hunting cleric live dangerous and often brief lives. In contrast, arcane spell casters are often left to their own devices. As a result, some who wish to challenge the tide of undead in that benighted realm have learned to bend arcane magics to the task. The Arcane Zombie Hunter is one result. Often the product of a horrifying childhood, beset by the undead, these nearly maniacal opponents of the walking dead are capable of abilities often only found in divine spell casters.

Channel Arcane Energy
At 5th level, the Arcane Zombie Hunter gains the cleric Channel Energy(su) 1d6 class feature, but it may only be used to harm undead creatures. This is an arcane effect, but may be enhanced using feats normally available to divine casters who get the Channel Energy ability. Channel Arcane Energy may be used as per Channel Energy to create a wave of damage vs. undead or via Spellstrike against a single target. An Arcane Zombie Hunter may channel arcane energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier. This class feature replaces the Bonus Feat at 5th level. At 8th level, the the Arcane Zombie Hunter gains Channel Arcane Energy 2d6 instead of Improved Spell Combat, which is instead gained at level 9 instead of a Magus Arcana. At 11th level a Bonus Feat is replaced by Channel Arcane Energy 3d6. At 14th level, the Arcane Zombie Hunter gains Channel Arcane Energy 4d6 instead of Greater Spell Combat, which is instead gained at 15th level in place of a Magus Arcana. At 17th level a Bonus Feat is replaced with Channel Arcane Energy 5d6.

True Zombie Hunter(su):
At 20th level, in place of True Magus, the Arcane Zombie Hunter gains this modified version of the ability. The bonuses gained other than the change to concentration checks for defensive fighting are only gained when fighting undead targets. In addition, the Channel Arcane Energy ability is raised to 6d6.


I HATE THIS DAMN SOFTWARE! ANOTHER POST EATEN!

Seriously, throw this junk into the rubbish bin and get something decent.

Okay, my ideas in short, because I won't write it all up again:

  • Have extra magus arcana, stuff like that adds a lot of customising potential to classes.

  • Have a Mobile Magus. Gets no heavier armours, but gets fast movement (or maybe gets medium armour and can move full-speed in it). Also trades in normal spell combat for arcane spring attack, which is spring attack with casting a spell at any time (usually before your attack; can be used with spellstrike). Also add vital strike to weapon damage and later make critical hits to double spell damage in addition to the usual extra damage for the weapon.

  • Spell brawler. Uses combat manoeuvres with spells. Cast a spell and the target is also subject to some combat manoeuvre (a disarming magic missile). Maybe multitarget later (so the fireball will trip everyone). Persistent grapple (that isn't automatically over after a round or so) later with spells that have a duration

  • Metamagus. No knowledge pool or pool spell. Instead, add metamagic to spells by paying arcane pool points instead of extra spell levels. It's all spontaneous, of course

  • The Exchange

    Count me as another voice for both the staff-fighting Magus, and the swashbuckler/duellist/mobile style Magus.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
    ajs wrote:

    Here's one that tweaks the class in the direction of a Cleric/Magus hybrid:

    Arcane Zombie Hunter

    One thing I didn't do was evaluate the spell list. Skewing it toward anti-undead spells would make sense. Possible candidates could include Light Lance (per the spell, but forming any light, no pun intended, weapon), Searing Light, Disrupting Weapon, etc.

    There's endless fun you could have massaging the two classes together, and I figure you could probably fork about 3 or 4 templates from the one idea without too much trouble.


    An elven magic warrior: like one that sings or casts spells while fighting (also good for any mysterious and magical race elite warriors)

    A shieldmaiden: Gain use of a shield, lose heavy armor and maybe some weapon choices


    I'm sure other people have posted these, but these are the main archetypes that I would hope for:

    An unarmed combat magus

    A light armor or no armor magus that gets an Int bonus to AC (similar to a monk or duelist's AC bonuses). Of course, I would want to be able to use this with the unarmed combat one.

    A sneaky version of the magus that can get some sneak attack and some illusion spells would also be amazing.


    I like the idea with the staff magus.

    I would love an idea that allows the combination with the witch class (stacking DC increase, maybe access to hexes), or a variant that gives a limitet access to hexes.
    An arcana that would let you spellstrike with hexes would be the perfect addition.

    Oh and a tank magus that focuses on the defense.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
    Matrixryu wrote:
    An unarmed combat magus

    And while we're at it, a Spellstrike Monk archetype wouldn't be bad, though it would require some careful balance work. In fact, I'd love to see a bunch of the class feature of the APG and UM base classes used to create archetypes for all of the core classes. Can you imagine the Holy Hand Grenade Paladin (Paladin + Alchemist Bomb); Exotic Bloodmaster (Summoners who use the blood of summoned creatures to gain special abilities -- Summoner + Alchemist Mutagen); Wild Combat Master (A teacher from a barbarian tribe -- Barbarian + Cavalier's Tactician and Challenge with slower Rage progression); Interrogation Expert (Rogue with many of the class features of an Inquistor with slower Sneak Attack progression);... there are lots of fun ways to combine these.


    Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
    KaeYoss wrote:
  • Spell brawler. Uses combat manoeuvres with spells. Cast a spell and the target is also subject to some combat manoeuvre (a disarming magic missile). Maybe multitarget later (so the fireball will trip everyone). Persistent grapple (that isn't automatically over after a round or so) later with spells that have a duration
  • +1

    I absolutely love this idea! Combat Maneuver Metamagic Magus class abilities FTW! Combine combat maneuvers like Disarm, Sunder, Steal, Reposition, etc. with certain spells.

    This would work as the ultimate in combining magic with combat, which is what the magus is all about. Perhaps require that they have the appropriate Combat Maneuver feat before they can gain the use of one of these abilities in their arcane pool. The ability should list what spells from the spell list it can work with and when spending a pool point or two they can gain the effect of the spell and the combat maneuver if the spell goes off successfully.

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