Hexblade (curses opponents, like the witch - although give it a different name)
Like this. A lot. Admittingly, could be done just putting the Evil Eye and Misfortune hexes as Arcanas.
And, the Monk/Magus, as said by TOZ. If not in an archetype of the class, in a prestige class.
In response to a lot of the ideas, I think some are better suited to hybrid PrCs than archetypes.
I hope that Ultimate Magic comes through on the PrC front, and since PrCs at this point are really mainly used for allowing hybrid characters, here's hoping that we see a class that allows Sorc/Monk (what many people are asking for essentially as an archetype of magus), Witch/Fighter (there's your hexblade), Paladin/Alchemist, Barbarian/Wizard...etc. Rather than hugely retooling base classes, use the (as of now largely under utilized) PrCs to make these kind of combos possible.
Sorry that's a little off topic, but for many suggestions here I feel that hybrid style PrCs would work much better than shoe-horning an archetype onto a base class.
Edit: +1 to new message board system, the eating posts thing has to go, and the inability to edit posts hurts the handbook making process greatly.
I really like the idea of the unarmed magus, but I would do it a little differently. I would probably not give anything but the improved unarmed strike feat for free, so no scalable fist attacks. Then I would not give any monk weapons because a normal magus can just exotic weapon proficiency for that. In a sense this magus would always have his/her hands free even though it will only do a d3 but in return the magus can put a spell on BOTH fists.
Also an roguish magus is good but i wouldn't want a duelist concept because a magus practically already is one. If nobody will use heavy armor anyway taking it away for extra abilities makes no sense.
I also really like the combat maneuverer magus but I would make sure that it is extremely viable. To the point, where I would hit all of the other magus combat ability for this. I would see a maneuver magus less as an arcane warrior and more as someone very good at using spells as weapons. Like a master of using ray spells to knock objects out of people hands or other such effects.
I was also thinking of maybe an antimage type of class.
Things I'd really like to see;
Sentient Sword Wielder - Lets do an elric class basically. I'm not sure about any of the balance or mechanical changes, but let the magus REALLY invest in their weapon, maybe stat bonuses when held, and penalties when not on their person.
Thrown Weapon Magus - Maybe letting them use spell strike on javelins, throwing axes, NETS?!?!?
One archetype in particular for me --- a way to play a two-weapon or two-handed weapon Magus!
At all. That's why I'm requesting it as a magus archetype.
Archtypes do not change BAB, HD AND SAVES, they do not change the class framework.You are not asking for an archetype. Your asking for a whole new class with all the ability of another class.
And even then your asking for something beyond the scope of what we have seen as a better progression then a half caster but not a 3/4th caster.
That is a whole new class.
One archetype in particular for me --- a way to play a two-weapon or two-handed weapon Magus!
That is easy, give up spell combat and replace it with something else.
Spell brawler. Uses combat manoeuvres with spells. Cast a spell and the target is also subject to some combat manoeuvre (a disarming magic missile). Maybe multitarget later (so the fireball will trip everyone). Persistent grapple (that isn't automatically over after a round or so) later with spells that have a duration
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I absolutely love this idea!
I concur. The class needs options like this by default.
I concur. The class needs options like this by default.Spell brawler. Uses combat manoeuvres with spells. Cast a spell and the target is also subject to some combat manoeuvre (a disarming magic missile). Maybe multitarget later (so the fireball will trip everyone). Persistent grapple (that isn't automatically over after a round or so) later with spells that have a duration
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I absolutely love this idea!
I liked your other ideas as well KaeYoss but this one really stands out.
The spring attack one is awesome.
As for the archer magus, sure I would love to see one. But it is going to be difficult to make (the magus right now comes close to stepping on the EK's feet but tip toes just slightly in my opinion) but if they can do it, please do.
Also a mounted magus caster would be interesting.
A defense specific magus. Gets and extended duration on shield spell, 1hr/lvl. Instead of enhancing your weapon you can enhance your armor like one of the paladin archetypes.
Hey everyone,
We're hard at work on finishing the magus, and one of the things we're working on is the magus archetypes. We have a pretty good list so far, but before the playtest ends, we wanted to ask all of you, what kind of magus archetypes would you like to see in Ultimate Magic and beyond? Post your ideas here!
I would love to see a Magus that focuses on weapon enhancement or focuses on one particular weapon to increase it's potency at the expense of some of his casting flexibility. And vice versa an archetype that gets more spell casting at the cost of weapon enhancements.
I second the unarmed magus!
Archetype time!
Ascetic Magus:
Replace weapon and armor prof's with monk, add unarmed damage, add wis to AC. NO FOB...spell combat becomes your FOB.
Instead of fighter training, add monk CMD bonus.
Replace ability to cast in armor with ki pool as per monk, but uses current arcane pool to fuel ki pool abilities.EDIT: HA DO KEN!!!!
:P
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I agree with some of the ones people have already posted, so I'll add my two cents. I would like to see:
-A shapeshifting magus, this idea could also encompass the natural weapon fighing style like the one given in the new ranger archetype from the APG, it would be especially handy for monstrous races
-A two weapon fighting/two handed weapon magus
-A magus with a more defensive mindset who focuses on armor enhancement/defensive and buffing spells
-A ranged magus, possibly using traditional ranged weapons or thrown weapons, would allow a lot of versatility and seems to go with the mindset of "fight smarter not harder"
-A magus who specializes in using spells instead of traditional weapons, gaining bonuses and combat abilities with touch spells, rays, etc., possibly having a few minor magical attacks he can use without depleting his spells per day or arcana pool
-A more swashbukler type magus who loses access to medium and heavy armor in exchange for other benefits
-A hexblade type would be interesting as well, but might be too large a change to the class (though some of the other archetypes from the APG did make just as sweeping changes)
I am also looking forwards to seeing new archetypes to the classes from the APG in Ultimate Magic. The archetype system is a great way to add variety to the base classes and ensure that no two characters are exactly the same, so I am eager to see the directions the system can be taken in.
I love the idea of
Staff Magus - Iconic concept
Spell Brawler - Maybe a little DBZ but still a great idea
Runeblade Magus- Fits the pathfinder setting well maybe have a different one for each rune school
Bladeshifter - A magus that can use his arcana abilities to add unusual properties to his weapon like reach, trip, ect.
Dart throwing drunken magus. His arcane pool adds to all darts thrown for the pools duration.
I agree with some of the ones people have already posted, so I'll add my two cents. I would like to see:
-A shapeshifting magus, this idea could also encompass the natural weapon fighing style like the one given in the new ranger archetype from the APG, it would be especially handy for monstrous races
-A two weapon fighting/two handed weapon magus
-A magus with a more defensive mindset who focuses on armor enhancement/defensive and buffing spells
-A ranged magus, possibly using traditional ranged weapons or thrown weapons, would allow a lot of versatility and seems to go with the mindset of "fight smarter not harder"
-A magus who specializes in using spells instead of traditional weapons, gaining bonuses and combat abilities with touch spells, rays, etc., possibly having a few minor magical attacks he can use without depleting his spells per day or arcana pool
-A more swashbukler type magus who loses access to medium and heavy armor in exchange for other benefits
-A hexblade type would be interesting as well, but might be too large a change to the class (though some of the other archetypes from the APG did make just as sweeping changes)
I am also looking forwards to seeing new archetypes to the classes from the APG in Ultimate Magic. The archetype system is a great way to add variety to the base classes and ensure that no two characters are exactly the same, so I am eager to see the directions the system can be taken in.
I like all of these aswell.
The whole I want two handed weapons and two weapon fighting thing is kinda ish to ask for, maybe instead of the armor proficiencies (make them either medium or light armor mages)
Allowing two-weapon fighting or two-handers with spell combat is not a good idea - just being able to full attack and cast a spell in the same round is already good enough. I see the one-hand restriction as a balancing factor.
That being said, a Two Weapon Fighting magus would be cool if they got something else instead of Spell Combat. I propose they gain the ability to cast spells even with their hand full with a light weapon, as well as apply their arcane pool to both weapons they are carrying at once. That would probably make up for the lack of Spell Combat.
Not sure for a two-hander magus - maybe empower spell damage with power attacks or something similar?
Another magus archetype I'd like to see is one who forms his own weapons out of magic, using his arcane pool to manifest shimmering blades of force.
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A spell thief archetype...akin to the bard sandman archetype.
Though an alternate caster type might be interesting, such as spontanious (arcane or divine), or even alchemists extract based.
Another throwback to WoC CA, Arcane Devote style feature giving the Magus access to domain spells, but not powers. Sort of an inversion to the Inquisitor's trick.
Last thought, a use magic device focused archetype. Perhaps using scrolls more efficiently, applying metamagic to USD items, or quickend UMD abilities. Two Weapon Fighting with Wands, Rods, or both ends of a staff in place of spell combat.
That's my 2 cents.
A spell thief archetype...akin to the bard sandman archetype.
Though an alternate caster type might be interesting, such as spontanious (arcane or divine), or even alchemists extract based.
Another throwback to WoC CA, Arcane Devote style feature giving the Magus access to domain spells, but not powers. Sort of an inversion to the Inquisitor's trick.
Last thought, a use magic device focused archetype. Perhaps using scrolls more efficiently, applying metamagic to USD items, or quickend UMD abilities. Two Weapon Fighting with Wands, Rods, or both ends of a staff in place of spell combat.
That's my 2 cents.
Oh i like the items deal. Maybe they could allow a magus to burn Arcane Pool points from a staff instead of it's charges? Or use them to recharge the staff in addition to spells?
This would be cool for a magus who fought sword n magic staff, or even more cool has a sword-cane like item that incorporates both!
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To have the Magus ability 'Close Range' use spells that have multiple targets target one creature when Spellstrike is used. Instead of waiting till sixteenth level to use this cause that is when you get disintegrate.
there was fear of putting too many enhancement pluses on a weapon for damage with Arcane Strike. I don't believe so, here is my example.
To allow Arcane Strike feat to be used in conjunction with Arcane Pool. Let's say my Cleric buddy has a magic Item that boosts his caster level by five and an Ioun Stone that boosts one more level for a total of six. If he is seventh level normally and boosts himself to thirteenth level, that is a plus three greater magic weapon spell. That plus two with Arcane strike at seventh level is a total of five, and using Arcane Pool with an additional plus two is seven for damage only. Going on from that plus seven with my strength of plus four is 11. Adding power attack with a plus four at seventh level is a total of 15. Let's say I have a long sword which does an average of four point five points of damage per hit. Adding that to the 15 I have 19.5 points of damage per hit. That is about what I would suspect a character hitting for that level if he were a Barbarian or a Fighter. Not broken in my view. Let's say we add a plus two for a total of 21.5 a hit. That is not an overpowering great amount of damage to do per hit. These numbers go down if these characters were three more levels lower or less.
Another note: having these magic items at seventh level is highly unlikely in any campaign, especially for Pathfinder Society. Subtracting two from the Greater Magic Weapon spell the 19.5 you get 17.5. About the damage of a Barbarian or a Fighter for that level. Having Arcane Strike puts the Magus up with the Fighter and the Barbarian in damage.
I would like to see a Magus that can specialize in a spell school like the wizards do. It wouldn't be necessary for every single school (no point for enchantment, for example) but specializing in abjuration, evocation or whatever and getting some nifty abilities would be pretty swell.
I would love to see a spell-channeling rogue, something similar to the daggerspell mage PrC from 3.5.
A 2 Weapon fighting Magus would be nice (similar to the old daggerspell mage).
Also a Magus whos more tomb robber style (disable device from distance etc.). I think the treasure hunter theme fits very good for a magus, not searching for gold but for ancient wisdom.
Also a racial archetype - who doesn't think of elves if he hears "weapon and magic bend together" ;)
Spell brawler. Uses combat manoeuvres with spells. Cast a spell and the target is also subject to some combat manoeuvre (a disarming magic missile). Maybe multitarget later (so the fireball will trip everyone). Persistent grapple (that isn't automatically over after a round or so) later with spells that have a duration
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I absolutely love this idea! Combat Maneuver Metamagic Magus class abilities FTW! Combine combat maneuvers like Disarm, Sunder, Steal, Reposition, etc. with certain spells.
This would work as the ultimate in combining magic with combat, which is what the magus is all about. Perhaps require that they have the appropriate Combat Maneuver feat before they can gain the use of one of these abilities in their arcane pool. The ability should list what spells from the spell list it can work with and when spending a pool point or two they can gain the effect of the spell and the combat maneuver if the spell goes off successfully.
I also really like this idea, i'd love to see a magus that can use combat manuever through spells.
In addition I'd like to see an unarmed magus, and possibly one that focuses on using created natural weapons (similar to some of the sorc bloodlines claws) instead of normal weapons.
Deathblade
The deathblade focuses his magical attention on the magics that end life... and extend one beyond it.
Lose: spell strike -- Gain Deathstrike. The deathblade may choose to may any weapon he uses gain the viscious enhancement. In addition he may use any necromancy spell with a range of "touch" through his weapon as if he had the spellstrike ability. This ability only works with necromancy spells.
Lose: Spell pool
Gain: Pale Vigor -- When reduced to negative hit points the deathblade is staggered instead of unconcious additionally the deathblade is immune to bleed damage. While at negative hit points the deathblade gains a +2 morale bonus to hit, damage, skills and save throws. The deathblade adds half his level to his Con to determine when he dies.
Lose: Improved Spell pool
Gain: Improved Pale Vigor -- When reduced to negative hit points the deathblade is no longer staggered. In addition his morale bonuses increase to +4 and he doesn't die until his negative hit points equal his Con plus his level.
Lose: Greater Spell pool
Gain: Pale Mastery -- When reduced to negative hit points the deathblade's morale bonuses increase to +6 and he gains a +2 to the DC of any necromancy spell he casts. The deathblade doesn't die until his negative hit points equal twice his level plus his Con.
Spellward Guardian
Alter: Arcane Pool -- the spellward guardian may spend a point from his arcane pool as a swift action to gain a +1 deflection bonus to their AC and a +1 resistance bonus to his save throws for one minute. These bonuses increase by +1 at level 5 and every 4 levels after that. At level 5 the spellward guardian may choose to give up this bonus to instead gain energy resistance 5 per +1 against one energy type. At level 10 he may instead choose to gain DR 2/- per +1 given up. This ability replaces the magus's ability to improve his weapons.
Lose: Spell Pool
Gain: Ward -- The spellward guardian may choose to spend an arcane point when he prepares his spells for the day. If he does so he may choose one ally to be affected by the share spell ability (as per the familiar's abilities). The only spells that may be shared this way are abjuration, illusion, and conjuration(cure) spells and may share his arcane pool ability.
Lose: Improved Spell Pool
Gain: Improved Ward -- The spellward guardian may use the share spell ability from on his ward out to thirty feet. Using the ability this way costs an arcane point spent at the same time the spell is cast. In addition the spellward guardian may have more than one ward at a time but each additional ward costs another arcane point. Spells shared with this ability can only affect one target. If the spelward guardian wants to affect all his wards he must cast the spell once per warded creature at the normal casting time for the spell.
Lose: Greater Spell Pool
Gain: Greater Ward -- When using his arcane pool ability the spellward guardian may affect everyone that he currently has warded. Doing so requires the expenditure of additional arcane points equal to the number of creatures he has warded.
Arcane Initiate
Lose: Spellstrike
Gain: Divine Training -- Choose a deity and one domain that deity grants access to. The arcane initiate may add spells from that domain to his spell list as if they were magus spells.
Lose: Spell Pool
Gain: Energy Channeling -- The arcane initiate may channel energy like a cleric of his deity with a cleric level equal to his arcane initiate level -3. Using this ability cost an arcane point but otherwise isn't limited on the number of times per day it may be used.
Lose: Knowledge Pool
Gain: Divine Knowledge Pool -- The arcane initiate may spend an arcane point to treat a spell from a domain his deity grants access to as if it was in his spell book and on his spell list for the purposes of preparing that spell for the day. Doing so cost an arcane point. The arcane initiate may spend additional points to choose additional spells.
Lose: Fighter Training
Gain: Clerical Training -- The arcane initiate gains the domain abilities of the domain he chose at first level. His clerical level for these abilities is 1/2 his arcane initiate level.
Lose: Improved Spell Pool
Gain: Improved Energy Channeling -- The arcane initiate may spend an additional point when he channels energy to channel the opposite type of energy than he normally would. He must pay this cost each time he wants to channel that type of energy.
Lose: Greater Spell Pool
Gain: Greater energy channeling -- The arcane initiate can channel either type of energy (positive or negative) without spending an extra arcane point. In addition he may increase the number of dice the channel energy will do by paying an additional arcane point per additional dice he wishes to have. These extra points must be spent each time the arcane initiate wishes to channel extra dice.
Elementalist
Alter: Arcane Pool -- The elementalist may spend a point from his arcane pool to alter an energy spell of the fire, cold, acid, or electric type in one of the following ways: increase the DC of the spell by 1, increase the dice of damage done by 1, change the energy type to either fire, cold, acid, or electric.
At level five he may affect a spell by two of the above choices, or the same choice twice (with the exception of changing the energy type). Every four levels after fifth the number of choices he can add increases by 1.
Lose: Knowledge Pool
Gain: Elemental Pool -- The elementalist may choose a spell that has the fire, cold, acid, or electric energy type and treat that spell as if it was on his spell list and in his spell book for the purposes of preparing that spell. This costs an arcane point to do, but maybe done for more than one spell at a time (at the cost of additional arcane points -- 1 per spell). The spell is prepared at the highest spell level it is available for any other caster (so if the spell is normally a druid 2 spell but is also a wizard 3 spell then the elementalist must prepare it as a third level spell).
To come:
Knowledge seeker, Sympathic Magus, War Magus, Spell Raider
One archetype in particular for me --- a way to play a two-weapon or two-handed weapon Magus!That is easy, give up spell combat and replace it with something else.
I should've quoted "while keeping spell combat" ;)
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I really like the ideas for a mounted magus and for a staff-fighter. I came to this thread to post the suggestion of debuffer, but I guess all this witch/hexblade talk kind of beat me to the punch. A debuff-focused magus would be a ton of fun to play, though: weaken their spirit and then beat it out of them. I vote for those three archetypes: mounted, staff-fighter, debuffer.
I should've quoted "while keeping spell combat" ;)One archetype in particular for me --- a way to play a two-weapon or two-handed weapon Magus!That is easy, give up spell combat and replace it with something else.
Grow four hands? :)
Spell combat is damned good, allowing that and two handed weapons is a bit tow good.
A Stealthy Magus, maybe one that replaces Medium and Heavy Armor proficiencies for increasing the Save DC and Caster Level Check against flat-footed opponents (like the beguiler). Or maybe sneak attack.
A Jedi-Magus. Maybe replace all Martial Weapons with Exotic Weapon proficiency in Bastard Sword?
A spellthief-like magus that steals ki/rage/channel/lay on hands, etc. to renew his Arcane Pool?
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I like the fighter/mage concept, it goes back to first edition. The length of time for the Magus Arcane Pool ability should be either a minute a level or half the Magus level a minute minimum one.
The Pool abilities at 4th, 7th, and 11th level need to be a little bit more exciting than what they are now. Maybe, something to do with the weapon the Magus is using along with the bonus spell use. Free combat maneuvers anyone when using points from the Arcane Pool?
righteous rant
First off the ability you focused on is a core ability of one class which in every archtype keeps said ability. No archtype to date changes the BAB, saves, skill points, spell casting ability or hit dice of the class it alters. In addition the only archtypes to date that eliminate or completely changes a key mechanical ability are bard archtypes and the bard is noted for being such a generalist that this is possible without breaking from being a bard.
Finally if such a change is going to happen I would rather see it happen to either the ranger (which is already a full bab 4 spell level class) or be built off of the fighter.
I'm honestly a bit leery of the idea one should label something that because something doesn't do exactly what you want it to do "a complete failure". Especially an idea like archtypes which are the exact opposite -- (meaning a complete success).
What you are asking for is something that changes the entire class completely from the ground up into something that doesn't even resemble the base class it came from. What you want is a new class -- not an archtype built on the magus class (which would use most of the same abilities possibly replacing a few while leaving the basic mechanics as they are).
Just a quick comment, I think a staff fighting magus should be able to use is staff as a two handed weapon, but not a double weapon.
Here's what I'm thinking for the staff fighter:
Modify spell combat: Can use the staff two handed but only gets one attack. At level 8 the attack does double damage and at level 14 it deals triple damage.
Lose Spell Pool, improved spell pool and greater spell pool:
Gain Staff Pool, improved staff pool, and greater staff pool: Add charges to a staff -- each charge costs a number of arcane points equal to the highest level spell in the staff. Improved staff pool allows you to spend arcane points to modify spells cast from the staff with metamagic feats you know (one point per level adjustment of the metamagic feat) while greater halves the cost to charge the staff.
Lose Knowledge Pool:
Gain Staff Knowledge: Prepare spells on a staff as if they are on the magus list and in your spell book. All spells must come from the same staff but you may prepare more than one spell this way at a time. Each such spell costs an arcane point.
Lose fighter training
Gain Staff crafting: Gain craft staff and become able to create temporary magical staves. The staff has a number of spells in it equal to your intelligence modifier with a number of charges equal to the number of arcane points you spend on the staff (maximum 10). The spells must be spells you have in your spell book.
Bad ass archetype examples that I for the most part agree with
sweeeet.
Well said Abraham. There are many fine ideas in this thread. Rewriting to be something totally different with the same name is not one of them
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righteous rantFirst off the ability you focused on is a core ability of one class which in every archtype keeps said ability. No archtype to date changes the BAB, saves, skill points, spell casting ability or hit dice of the class it alters. In addition the only archtypes to date that eliminate or completely changes a key mechanical ability are bard archtypes and the bard is noted for being such a generalist that this is possible without breaking from being a bard.
For me, the greatest problem with adding such a change to an archetype is that such a dull mechanical background effect could never justify the violence done to the class to allow it. Archetypes, by definition, are about story. They should do things that are dramatic and descriptive. "Here is Merlin, child of an incubus, immortal, soothsayer, kingmaker, famed throughout history for his d8 hit dice." No. That's the wrong way to use the mechanic.
If there is no two-weapon or two-handed magus archtype, then I guess the only real way to have one is to use multi-armed characters then, eh? I mean, you only need one hand free...and keep the other 3 to 5 filled with whatever :D
If there is no two-weapon or two-handed magus archtype, then I guess the only real way to have one is to use multi-armed characters then, eh? I mean, you only need one hand free...and keep the other 3 to 5 filled with whatever :D
Actually the archtype I'm working on for two weapon is pretty simple -- I keep thinking there needs to be more but I'm just not coming up with anything so here it is:
Two weapon Magus
Modify arcane pool -- You may use the weapon enhancement ability on both ends of a double weapon but doing so costs an additional arcane point.
Drop spellstrike, gain still spell.
Modify spell combat -- You may attack with both ends of a double weapon while using spell combat -- if you do so you take all penalties from fighting with two weapons and the penalty from using spell combat. Any spell you cast in a round where you use both ends of a double weapon cannot have somatic components (either because the spell doesn't require them or because you are using still spell with the spell).
Some Archetypes in the APG removed spellcasting from paladin and ranger so changing it to arcane wouldn't be too big a step i would think.
That being said i would never allow a blanket can cast wizard spells but possibly a ranger that could use illuisions or a paladin with limited bard spells wouldn't be too far outside the box.
I prefer a lightly armored, pretty mobile spell 'n' sword type. Buffs are not my interest so much as some battlefield control and dealing out ranged damage until being able to close with the enemy.
War Magus
Modify spell combat: When using a full round action to charge a war magus can cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action or less. The magus must have a hand free and takes a -2 to attack...(so on and so on like normal spell combat).
Lose: Spellstrike, Spell Pool, Knowledge Pool, Improved Spell Pool, Greater Spell Pool
Gain: Mount (as per the cavalier's mount). At level 4 gains a +2 competence bonus on concentration checks made while riding his mount and may ignore armor check penalties on ride checks while riding his mount.
I was thinking about this the other day...
What about an archetype that grants sneak attack and trapfinding, adds disable device as a class skill?
I dunno what you'd remove...more than likely at the very least casting in full plate, maybe spell pool...
Or maybe these things are better served as Arcana?
I think it'd be neat to provide something that fit the flavor of the old F/M/T from 2nd ED.