Just finished my entry for round 2, and it was tougher than I expected. Fairly early on, even before I knew that I had made the Top 32, I had a list of details for the country, very much like the opening of the entries in the LG Gazetteer, on paper. As I read through those details and shared them with a friend though, I realized that they did not do justice to the big picture I was trying to convey. I am now status post one heck of a rewrite and I am very pleased. I hope that I will be just as pleased after getting a few hours of sleep and rereading it all.
Chad
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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I hope that I will be just as pleased after getting a few hours of sleep and rereading it all.
Chad
Oi. Yeah, that's been my bane, too.
I crank out fifteen-hundred words, I stare at it for six hours, I sleep. I wake up, I stare at the page, delete half of it, re-write. Now I'm up to two-thousand words. I stare at it for a few hours, I go to bed. I wake up, I delete 95% of it.
At least now I'm under maximum word-count. Unfortunately, my country reads:
"Country Name". "Alignment." "Other."
Sigh.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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I'm mostly done, I just need to do some editing later tonight with a fresh set of eyes. However, the hardest part is yet to come - the waiting. I'd rather write anything than wait and wait and wait some more to see how it all turns out.
Clinton, I feel your pain. There were several times over the last few days when I had one document open that read...
[Name of Country]
"evocative phrase"
Alignment:
Capital:
Notable Settlements:
Ruler:
Government:
Description:
DM Secrets:
and a separate document filled with a lot of those details and more, yet for some reason, I couldn't make the details from the one document create a cohesive picture in the other blanket document. For some reason it reminded me of a surgeon standing over his patient with an anatomy book propped up across the table crying out, "nothing in there looks like anything in here."
Joel, as for the waiting, I wish I could say that I didn't agree, but the truth is that I got rather antsier last round than I should have liked. I suspect this round will be even worse, as now it seems that I have more at stake.
Chad
Why only 1000 words? WHY?
I'm at 950 and I still haven't written down everything I think is important. But cutting things out is even harder. The horror!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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Joel, as for the waiting, I wish I could say that I didn't agree, but the truth is that I got rather antsier last round than I should have liked. I suspect this round will be even worse, as now it seems that I have more at stake.Chad
This round will be worse for me. Witht the open call, I didn't really expect to make the top 32, so it wasn't really waiting for anything specific, just to see what cool items make the cut. Now that I'm here at the big party, every minute will seem like an eternity!
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I am wonder how the entries shall be displayed in round two? Will they be handled in the same fashion as the items; with people posting under each topic, which would be one of the 32 countries, or will they all be displayed in one post area and the public not able to comment directly into the thread area. I am not sure which is the best way to have either I like the idea of 32 country posts but I am not sure I would like to have everyone’s opinion directly involved in my thought/decision process. I am happy I do not have to make the call. I am looking forward to when the submission are cleared and posted so that I may start the review after all 32 in a few days with work and all shall be time consuming.
Just my thoughts before I go to work today.
aka Robert G. McCreary
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I hear what y'all are saying. I've been working on this non-stop all weekend, and editing it down to fit under the word count is definitely the most frustrating and nerve-wracking part of the process.
Personally, I'm starting to think that 1000 words is the worst possible word count to require. If it was 200 words (like the first round, and like the entries in the 3e Greyhawk Gazetteer), you know you don't have room to say anything, you just have to hit 'em with a short, concise, and pithy description that captures the imagination (look at the entries in Hook Mountain's Varisia gazeteer, for example). And of course, if it was longer, say 2000-5000 words, you'd have plenty of room to expand on things and add lots of juicy details. I think most country descriptions in published products are well over 1000 words.
Of course, we're not actually writing up countries for inclusion in a published world, we're writing for a contest to get to the next round, so I guess the point is moot.
I'm not complaining, mind you, just venting my frustrations. I actually hope that by subjecting it to such a brutal editing process my final product will be that much more concise and "tight". And I'm really enjoying the whole process. But it's made me really interested in seeing the Golarion gazetteer next month and the Pathfinder campaign setting later on.
Wow, that was a ramble. I should get back to it - I'm 9 hours ahead of Paizo-land, so it's already Sunday evening for me, and I have to work tomorrow. Yikes!
Good luck, everyone. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar
aka Leandra Christine Schneider
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Oh my, that was really, really difficult.
I think I've never had such a hard time to come up with some lovely RPG stuff. I agree that 1000 words weren't easy to match...
At first (a few nights and days ago), I thought that I might not come up with enough great ideas to fill the space. (I've never even thought about designing a country of my own out of an adventure context before). As soon as I got something and started writing, the exact opposite happened and I found myself with far too many ideas with too little words :-S.
I think I spent most of today with trimming and correcting evil mistakes (especially English capitalization rules are so very different to those in German).
I thank all the gods that this round is nearly finished and I guess I'll find the waiting to be pleasant, as it allows me to rest in my sarcophagus.
@ Rob McCreary: Welcome to the hordes of the undead :P
Rest? I think you will only be thinking of the villain you'll have to design when you make it to the next round. No rest for the wicked (and the superstars).
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The word count is supposed to be a difficult aspect of this challenge. Game design (and professional writing) is about more than just good ideas, so the tight word count is a way to see if you can convey all the information you need to convey in a short amount of space without sacrificing the "cool" factor that obviously played a huge role in Round 1.
Incidentally, we based the 1000 words roughly on our outline for the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer, which contains something like 50 countries done up at this length.
So, I feel for you guys, but I know from experience that this is possible.
I am super excited to read these entries.
In fact, I think I'll go read the first couple of them now.
Out of curiosity, can we see an example of a good 1000 word country write up?The word count is supposed to be a difficult aspect of this challenge. Game design (and professional writing) is about more than just good ideas, so the tight word count is a way to see if you can convey all the information you need to convey in a short amount of space without sacrificing the "cool" factor that obviously played a huge role in Round 1.
Incidentally, we based the 1000 words roughly on our outline for the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer, which contains something like 50 countries done up at this length.
So, I feel for you guys, but I know from experience that this is possible.
I am super excited to read these entries.
In fact, I think I'll go read the first couple of them now.
Not until after Round 2 is due, at least. If they wanted us to have a whole template, they'd have expaned the Absalom entry on the rules page.
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aka Robert G. McCreary
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The word count is supposed to be a difficult aspect of this challenge. Game design (and professional writing) is about more than just good ideas, so the tight word count is a way to see if you can convey all the information you need to convey in a short amount of space without sacrificing the "cool" factor that obviously played a huge role in Round 1.
Oh, I understand completely. I hope you don't think I was complaining. You are looking for a Superstar, after all, and I'm very happy to have made it this far.
Incidentally, we based the 1000 words roughly on our outline for the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer, which contains something like 50 countries done up at this length.
I was really curious about that. But now it makes me want to see it even more! January has never seemed so far away...
I am super excited to read these entries.
Me too! :D
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8
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I'm almost done with my entry as well. Final editing and such, I'm at 999, I was almost to 900 before the DM Secrets section so I had to go back and edit so that I had at least 200 words to play with. Cutting down the history was tough as to know why it is as it is you must know how it came to be. I had to put my normal campaign on hold just to get ready for this.
But this is new and fresh, so hope ya'll like it.
I hope that I will be just as pleased after getting a few hours of sleep and rereading it all.
Chad
Oi. Yeah, that's been my bane, too.
I crank out fifteen-hundred words, I stare at it for six hours, I sleep. I wake up, I stare at the page, delete half of it, re-write. Now I'm up to two-thousand words. I stare at it for a few hours, I go to bed. I wake up, I delete 95% of it.
At least now I'm under maximum word-count. Unfortunately, my country reads:
"Country Name". "Alignment." "Other."
Sigh.
That's about where I am except I have "Government." :)
I agree with all of you. I submitted mine a couple of days ago, since I've been busy with things like Wargames conventions all weekend, so I made an early start. I spent most of the time tweaking words around, taking them out, re-phrasing and then realising that - after the feedback on the Talisman - long rambling sentences, while word efficient, are perhaps not the best way to win people over (rather like I'm doing now!) In the end, I cut out a whole slew of stuff about the government structure, since I needed to free up some words and I figured ultimately, adventurers are probably likely to care very little about it unless it's like the whole theme of the setting.
What bugs me is if I'd had but another few words - even as few as 20, I think I could have done a better job, just with another sentense of two. As it is, I've been a bit briefer than I would like on some aspects, since I was concentraing on the hyberbole a bit. I was working from the assumption that the best way to go is making people say "wow, I really want to go adventure there!" (Whether I'm right or not, I guess I'll find out!)
I actually took my stylistic cue from the most recent 3.5 Ravenloft PHB, because I found I go back and re-read the gazeteer time and again - that and the heady influence of Stewart Cowley's Spacecraft 2000-2100AD which always invoked a feeling of awe and chill in me since I was was knee-high to a dead Kobold. By contrast, the other week during a session running the Lost Caverns module, we had cause to look up something in the 3.0 Greyhawk 'sourcebook' (if you can call something that thin a real source book, but it's the only material I can find on Greyhawk) and even the player reading was falling asleep. About the only thing I can remember (and I'm the DM!) was something about Highland or some such 'sometimes' fights Iuz...
On the other hand, the last country write up I did was for the Validus Empire - based very heavily on the Romans - for my own homebrew world was 7300-odd words, of which about 2000 was about the Legion! (Not including much histroy either, sicne that falls into the general campiagn world history!) Even my briefer countries (which were not nearly so detailed - bloody Romans, being difficult) come to about 1600. So, not exactly used to writing so little. I took the approach of being fairly sweeping, rather than specific, so I hope that was the right way to go. I'll find out soon enough, I guess!
You no doubt can see this tendancy in that I've already written about as much in this one post as in the whole of the rest of the thread put together!
It's a racial idiosyncrasy of Liches, you know, stemming from the innate compulsion to monologue to good-doers...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Last night, I got rip-roaring drunk, sat down at my document and started slapping the Undo Typing command (which brings back deleted text) until I had a thousand words.
Then I submitted it. Ha-HA! Done, and with a day and a half to spare!
At least, I HOPE that it was a thousand words.
Probably should have hit 'word count' . . .
(KIDDING!)
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Chief Technical Officer
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I am wonder how the entries shall be displayed in round two? Will they be handled in the same fashion as the items; with people posting under each topic, which would be one of the 32 countries...
That's correct. The submission will be followed by the judges' initial comments, and then the public discussion will begin.
I am not sure I would like to have everyone’s opinion directly involved in my thought/decision process.
No problem—just stop reading after the first post of each thread, and then cast your vote!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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No problem—just stop reading after the first post of each thread, and then cast your vote!
That's the best way to avoid that, certainly, but I would hope that the discussions about the individual countries were really interesting, creative, critical, intelligent and intense.
Certianly, some of the opinions will be less useful than others to specific voters, but I'd like to think that there will a strong spirit of design interpretation and discussion occuring below every single country.
I, for one, intend to weigh in philosophically on every damn country and wait for feedback both from the creators and from other users before casting my vote - which, I'll admit, might not be for my own.
Mine went in friday. When I finished writing it on thusday it was at 1055 word count. Of course it was at the moment I got it winnowed down under 1000 that I started having second thoughts on the country. I went back through my world documents looking for one that would be better or more appealing. By late thursday night I was a mental wreck trying to decide! Finally I just closed everything up and went to bed. The next day I looked over my first country and sent it in.
I imagine 'second guessing' is something that's gonna be a chronic condition for everyone involved in this contest, from contestants to judges to voters.
Ah well we must all suffer for our art! :)
*sighs* I really need to just decide on an messageboard icon/avatar/pic.
Edited... Still too long.
Edited... Missing vital information.
Edited... Too long again.
(sigh...)
Edited... It'll have to do.
Away it goes! Good luck, little country submission!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Mine went in friday. When I finished writing it on thusday it was at 1055 word count. Of course it was at the moment I got it winnowed down under 1000 that I started having second thoughts on the country. I went back through my world documents looking for one that would be better or more appealing. By late thursday night I was a mental wreck trying to decide! Finally I just closed everything up and went to bed. The next day I looked over my first country and sent it in.
My experience exactly, and best of luck.
For the record, you are one of the (many) contestants that I'm quite nervous about facing in a pure-description battle: you've got a firm grasp of slick flavor-text and a command of brief, evocative fluff that gets the blood flowing. And so do the vast majority of the others.
Oi. For me, it's like stepping up to the mic for a rap-battle against a guy you've overheard practicing backstage, thinking to yourself: "Damn, I wish I'd thought of that."
(times 31, obviously)
Now, that's exactly the sentiment I want to get from a game-product that I buy, so I'll say this: all the best to every one of us, and may the Paizo community (and the wider D&D community, just to overstate out importance a bit) be richer for this experience.
Rockstar.
First off, good luck all.
Second, I hear you all on the writing. It has been a great experience though. i have learned to really try and make the most out of the least if you all know what I mean.
Third, i thought the reason we had to a thousand words was obvious. we can't draw a map, and well, a picture IS worth a thousand words (please don't hurt me)
Again good luck all. I can't wait to see the final results that you have all laboured so hard to create. Cheers.
WC
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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I just sent mine in, and what a relief. I thought I'd never stop finding minor tweaks to make! Good luck to everyone else, and I can't wait until Wednesday to read all of the entries.
Mine just went in as well. Good luck all.
Chad
I had the same sentiments. It was both exciting yet extremely frustrating to stay within that 1,000 word limit (assuming I did, since the number was different between five different word counters).
I wound up breaking my submission down into six key sections. When the rough draft of the first section added up to 500 words, I knew I was going to be in for a few long nights. Combined with the juggling of real life events (Thanksgiving/Christmas season, end of college semester... gah!), I'm surprised I haven't gone bald yet.
Good luck to the rest of you during this next round. I'm really excited to read what the rest of you came up with. I was very impressed by the round 1 submissions you all submitted, and I look forward to being just as impressed by the submissions this round. Best of luck!
...and well, a picture IS worth a thousand words (please don't hurt me)
Oh man, that was punny.
Wait, will I get hurt for saying that? ;)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Since most of what I do in my own games is work on countries, I'm very keen to see what the 32 submit. I can't wait to read them all. Good luck to you all!
That makes two of us. In another thread, I expressed hope that the various countries would actually work as a build for an entire world - 32 empires, city-states, island nations, tribes and duchies, all interlocking.
That would, in fact, be pimping cool. An entire new world for Paizo to play with.
Well, we're at t-minus twelve hours until they're all due, and I'm actually more excited to hear what the judges have to say about the opening of round two than I was about round one.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Third, i thought the reason we had to a thousand words was obvious. we can't draw a map, and well, a picture IS worth a thousand words (please don't hurt me)
God help me, I laughed at that. Fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Oi. I gotta go to bed. This contest is killing my sleep schedule.
This round will be worse for me. With the open call, I didn't really expect to make the top 32, so it wasn't really waiting for anything specific, just to see what cool items make the cut. Now that I'm here at the big party, every minute will seem like an eternity!
I know exactly what you mean. I too did not expect to get picked for the 32; there were some really great items, not just the 32 but items posted on the losing thread, in the 850. So, I was not what you would call prepared for the Make a Country part of the contest.
But I did finally get something submitted.......and now the waiting.|
aka Robert G. McCreary
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And I'm in.
I basically finished yesterday, then decided to sleep on it before taking one last look. Wow, I can't believe all of the editing and tweaking that had to be done. 1000 words sounds like a lot, but it gets used up fast.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the other 31 countries. I feel like I'm in very good company.
Good luck, everyone!
(I'm not so much worried about waiting for the results - waiting until Wednesday when they're all posted is what's gonna do me in...)
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka catdragon
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Yeah, I had a real hard time winnowing down my text. I wanted to describe the country so it felt like a real place at the same time incorporating magical and fantastical elements. I went from 750 words -> 1500 words -> 1100 words -> 1020 words -> 950 words -> 1005 words. I attempted to read it out loud to myself and managed to find six or seven superfluous words that way.
Then I passed it to my mom and asked her to proof it. She doesn't play RPGs and really has no concept of role-playing despite me playing for almost 30 years. However, she was a geography teacher so she helped, Finally she said that it seemed like "a real place."
So I left it at that. And now, the waiting.... I hate the waiting.... :)
However, I think I produced something in the top 10 percentile of what I can do so hopefully it will pass. But even if it doesn't boy did I learn things about how to write. Which makes this contest really really worthwhile.
Thnaks Paizo (and the judges)! You're tops in my books!
The word count makes it extremely difficult to convey the multitude of adventerous possibilities and cool flavorful parts of my country. The lack of being able to put the map up makes giving a clear picture of the cool geography nearly impossible within 1000 words. So I chose a different approach and I hope it pays off. I was about 1200 words when I figured it was time to cut my losses, clean it up and make it look good for the tid-bits I wanted to share.
I ish everyone luck!!
On a similar but different note, I have to ask, what are each of you going to do about questions? We are expected to talk to the people who are looking at our countries and answer questions, yet we can not extrapolate further on our countries in case of disqualification. How do each of you intend to handle this? I am going to try and answer all design decision questions (i.e. why did you use x), but any specific questions (what is the architecture of q like) I'll answer after the voting. What are your thoughts on this.
WC
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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On a similar but different note, I have to ask, what are each of you going to do about questions? We are expected to talk to the people who are looking at our countries and answer questions, yet we can not extrapolate further on our countries in case of disqualification. How do each of you intend to handle this? I am going to try and answer all design decision questions (i.e. why did you use x), but any specific questions (what is the architecture of q like) I'll answer after the voting. What are your thoughts on this.
WC
That's a good question. I'll probably handle the questions as you suggest, answering design related ones, and holding off on questions for further detail.
On a similar but different note, I have to ask, what are each of you going to do about questions? We are expected to talk to the people who are looking at our countries and answer questions, yet we can not extrapolate further on our countries in case of disqualification. How do each of you intend to handle this? I am going to try and answer all design decision questions (i.e. why did you use x), but any specific questions (what is the architecture of q like) I'll answer after the voting. What are your thoughts on this.
WC
Honestly, I think I'm going to try and stay out of the conversation altogether, unless what I'm answering clearly doesn't add to my submission. Even if someone asks a "why" question, there's a chance that the explanation will give away too much.
I was done Saturday, but wanted some input from some friends before I sent it in today. I actually like the word count. I'm a rambling man and need that kind of structure to stream-line my writing. I very interested to see how many city-states there are over large countries. Also its going to be a rough 7 days till we know who made it through, then back to the salt mines again searching for the greatest villian "ever".
Just remember everyone, you don't have to be the best. Just better that half. Course we all are still reaching for that mithral ring. Good luck and soon may the posting begin.
Go forth, little country, child of my mind. Fair thee well. (Translation: Submitted.) I finished it too late last night (read: this morning) to get others to proofread it. Instead I slept on it, edited a bit, and turned it in.
Poetics aside, I plan to deal with the discussion issue by prefacing each post in my own discussion thread with a small disclaimer. It will serve to remind me not to say anything that could get me DQed, but also as a reminder to those in the discussion that just because I haven't answered their question doesn't mean I'm being evasive. Mostly, to remind me not to say anything that could get me DQed.
Also, right after voting closes, I will post a complete response to unanswered questions and misunderstandings.
Also, right after voting closes, I will post a complete response to unanswered questions and misunderstandings.
Likewise.
I think we might need to get the Paizo judges to give us some clear guidelines as to what it is okay to talk about, because I'm not crystal clear. Obviously, I'll err on the side of caution, but it would be nice to have some clearly defined boundries so we don't overstep them.
30 minutes till deadline, for any of my fellows who haven't submitted. (Somehow, I still feel tense, despite having turned mine in already.)
I submitted on Sunday evening and then took a break to watch football. I had a great time with the challenge of making each sentence rich with possibility and hoping that the description elicits a response of the reader wanting to visit, but not building in too much restriction.
As far as responding to questions, it seems clear that a discussion of design decisions is encouraged, ie, "I wrote more about x than y because I wanted to emphasize adventure/role play/politics, etc" is encouraged. But saying that "I left out this really neat city that is so cool because blah-blah..." is not.
I entered this contest on a lark, even though writing for gaming is one of my loves and is a career choice I have seriously considered, I didn't figure on it going anywhere. The first idea for a wondrous item that jumped into my head was the Beacon of Hope. And I kept thinking I needed something more flashy such as the Brooch of Bard-like Charisma or Really Swank Shoes of Blue Suedeness. But I stuck with my first impulse and here I am. The thing I love most about this so far is the discussion that this has engendered. I have rarely had this much fun around gaming without actually playing. Thanks to the judges, voters and the other winners. I am looking forward to reading the entries.
peace,
Darth Frodo
The lack of being able to put the map up makes giving a clear picture of the cool geography nearly impossible within 1000 words.
I had an interesting experience with this. Normally, I draw the map, and the map then guides my thinking about a country. At several times during drafting my entry, though, I would think "But this description doesn't fit the map." Then, I'd realize that I could adjust the map to better fit the description.
The hardest part for me, though, was coming up with all of the names that I needed. That was a real block, until I worked out some naming conventions.
Apparently one potential Superstar flaked and missed the deadline (not sure which one yet), so it's a good thing we picked those alternates!
Ouch. Now I'm worrying whether my submission went through and posted correctly.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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Also, right after voting closes, I will post a complete response to unanswered questions and misunderstandings.Likewise.
I think we might need to get the Paizo judges to give us some clear guidelines as to what it is okay to talk about, because I'm not crystal clear. Obviously, I'll err on the side of caution, but it would be nice to have some clearly defined boundries so we don't overstep them.
I agr-izzle, fo' shizzle. Not a one of us wants to be DQ'd.
A question like "Is this from your home campaign?" should be answerable - "Yes."
But is that about it? All that we can REALLY say? Because beyond that answer, I'm talking more and more about the country and how the Adjective-Nouns of Noun verbed the Noun of Adjectives, Nouning. Won't be able to help myself.
Arrrrgh.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Apparently one potential Superstar flaked and missed the deadline (not sure which one yet), so it's a good thing we picked those alternates!
Not it!
I got mine in with 9 whole minutes to spare!
I hadn't had a chance to work on it until this weekend, finished a first draft last night, got a few comments from a friends, slept on it, got a few more comments, worked on it a couple more hours this morning. About 11:30 figured it was time to send it off and then had about 20 minutes of panic trying to find the link for submission.
Turns out, like a dummy, I hadn't logged in to *my* account, I was just on paizo as a guest. But all's well that ends well, figured it out, got it in, and now we wait. I'm pretty happy with my country. I think it came out well and that I was able to craft the entry to convey what I wanted, including some specific adventure hooks. As to whether the voting public will love it, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Jason
P.S. Like others have mentioned, I do hope we get some feedback from the judges on question-answering guidelines in the discussion threads.