aether kineticist

aether is elemental force in and of it's self, correct? so why does an aether kineticist need objects to use his elemental blast or kinetic blade? magic missle is composed of force only, so is it not essentially a form of aether? and a aether kineticist can pick up water with pure force alone, so why can't he use the blast and blade techniques without a form of focus? it seems to me a little limiting and short sighted, none of the other elements require material components to use their blast or blades.

Flagged for incorrect forum (this should be in the Pathfinder RPG Discussion forum since there is not an actual rules question here).

Also, there is a force option: Force Blast.

Not really a rules question, the rules are unambiguous, flagged to move.

Aether is more telekinesis than an elemental force of it's own, for the most part at least. It is very much fitting that it damages by using matter than being an independent energy effect

The answer to the initial question "aether is elemental force in and of it's self, correct?" is "No". Aether is to elemental planes as ectoplasm is to the Material Plane; it's the substance that builds up at the boundaries between the Elemental Planes and the Ethereal as elemental energy infuses the Ethereal into a strange new element. Extremely skilled telekineticists can weave aether against aether in intricate patterns to create pure force attacks, but it's usually easier to just use strands of aether on an object.

Answer- they wanted a telekinetic character for their big flashy psychic class, and they felt this was the appropriate element.

They already have plenty of blasts that appear to just 'pure force'- wind blast and gravity blast. Not the force element...but you probably aren't looking for that because the image is compelling but because it basically faces no defenses ever other than concealment.

I didn't intend an automatic hit like magic missle just a comparison of how it is a projectile of force only. And page two of Occult Origins states aether is pure force, so I was puzzled as to why I need a core object for my blast or kinetic blade?

The concept of object is very loose in the system. What deals the real damage is the enveloping aether anyway (the type/weight of the object does not change the damage). In my group, we allow aether kinetic blast to be used with anything, a single hair or just a mass of air. There is always something to be thrown.

Interesting, I didn't know about that tidbit. Page 2 of Occult Origins is an introduction to the book rather than an actual entry on aether, however, and it's incorrect. Aether isn't pure force. It's elementally saturated matter from the Ethereal Plane, sort of like the counterpart to ectoplasm (which forms the veil between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane).

My character bought 20 darts that she will use with her blast, and she will gather power to extend the range (with the talent).

I have used three thus far.

The really neat thing is that, most of the time, there is something around for the Telekinecist to pick up and throw around. The only thing that hampers this particular build is the fact that the character is going against regular AC instead of Touch.

I will be getting the Archer feats.

The concept of object is very loose in the system. What deals the real damage is the enveloping aether anyway (the type/weight of the object does not change the damage). In my group, we allow aether kinetic blast to be used with anything, a single hair or just a mass of air. There is always something to be thrown.

We could probably use a blog on what counts as an object and what counts as an unattended object.

For instance, you should be able to shoot coins out of your own hand. Or, how small does an object have to be to not be an object? I assume throwing individual atoms isn't intended.

I have an Aether using Kineticist that simply carries a bag of 100 copper coins. At the start of each fight, drop it as a free action and then fire coins at people. It's easy to use and a gold mine for puns.

"A copper for your thoughts?"
"You forgot your change!"
"Allow me to share the wealth."
"I'd say your life is worth about... three, no, two copper. Let's see if I'm right!"

Finding ammo is easy enough. Coins, rocks, or the piles of mundane weapons and gear in PFS that tend to get passed up by all but the startingest of the starting characters. With just a minimum ammount of effort, Aether is as easy to maintain as any other element.

"I am a master of weapons! I can use and sword.... once."

In our regular PFS group, we have an aether kineticist called "the garbage man" because he runs around picking up garbage all the time, carrying huge piles around in a sack tied to his back. Nobody thinks very highly of him until he get riled up and starts throwing things, then he usually has everyone's attention.

In our regular PFS group, we have an aether kineticist called "the garbage man" because he runs around picking up garbage all the time, carrying huge piles around in a sack tied to his back. Nobody thinks very highly of him until he get riled up and starts throwing things, then he usually has everyone's attention.

I took my 4th level aetherkineticist through the PFS module City of Golden Death. I forgot to buy any junk items to use as weapons. So, as soon as we killed our first snake, I started using the snake corpse as a weapon. I used it to cut another snake in half. Then, using that same snake corpse, I scored a critical hit on some sort of weird helldog thing, at which point the snake flew down its throat, and split it open in a giant gore pile. By that point I had some random loot, and was throwing that around. Then, for poops and giggles and

Aetherkineticists are hilarious.

Aether Kineticist Kinetic Blade:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s

Another possible example.

My telekineticist bought a 2lb bag of marbles (for 1sp) which my google-fu told me is approximately 80 marbles. Also bought a bag of caltrops in case of piercing damage. Finally, for a real weapon, I keep a Cestus equipped since it keeps the hand mostly open and I don't want to have to use actions to deal with draw/drop/pick up weapon actions when swapping between Kinetic Blade and Gather Power'd Kinetic Blasts.

It just occurred to me that chalk doesn't have weight in pathfinder, and you can buy one hundred pieces for just one gold. What are the chances you'd ever run out after buying them?

Does anyone know if Aether is visible? If not, you could pretend to be the best weapon throwing around. Ow, those shuriken really hurt when that guy throws them!

It just occurred to me that chalk doesn't have weight in pathfinder, and you can buy one hundred pieces for just one gold. What are the chances you'd ever run out after buying them?

Does anyone know if Aether is visible? If not, you could pretend to be the best weapon throwing around. Ow, those shuriken really hurt when that guy throws them!

Things are going to get dusty up in here real quick.

As to the second, if you have elemental overflow active, it's pretty apparent that something "kinetic" is going on. It has a visual effect unless suppressed. Charging your kinetic blast also has a visual and audible effect. "Gathering power creates an extremely loud, visible display in a 20-foot radius centered on the kineticist, as the energy or matter swirls around her." is actually written into the ability (it's hard to be a sneaky kineticist).

That being said, if you have neither of those things active (not recommended but who am I to say you can't), I imagine aether doesn't have to have a visual effect.

I'm playing a protean worshipping, android telekineticist so I'm going with the prismatic effect the aether elemental's art work had with a major circuitry vibe as it swirls about my character when she charges up.

Or buy a few bags of sling bullets. They're cheep, easy to acquire, and oh so satisfying when the BBEG mocks you for pulling out a small metal sphere instead of a weapon.

If you want to be meta, buy a component pouch. They have a virtually inexhaustible supply of "objects".

If you want to be meta, buy a component pouch. They have a virtually inexhaustible supply of "objects".

Bat Guano. Bat Guano everywhere.

Speaking of aether kineticists, why is the dev team so harsh with at-will force (read: non-elemental) damage of any kind? The fact that you have to pour a lot of growth potential to get a basic force attack is really disheartening (it's my favorite "element", by the way).

Speaking of aether kineticists, why is the dev team so harsh with at-will force (read: non-elemental) damage of any kind? The fact that you have to pour a lot of growth potential to get a basic force attack is really disheartening (it's my favorite "element", by the way).

And virtually nothing resists it, so this is exactly the reason why the dev team is so harsh with at-will force damage of any kind! I am certain it is a LOT of people's favorite damage type or element.

Yes, but spell resistance still applies and they could have made the force blast deal d4s instead of d6s. That way the composite blast would have still done double dice damage like the rest. Besides we have a kineticist element with a negative energy blast that effects all but constructs, undead, and a select few living creatures.

There is an awful lot of undead and constructs, which means a lot of opponents resist or are immune to negative energy. Many BBEG's minions are in these categories.
Most magic attacks (spells and spell-like) have to deal with SR. Kineticists can opt for physical damage if they want. It's all about choices the player makes.

I wonder, does a Shield spell block a kinticist's force damage too?

Only if they miss...

Yup. The force blast isn't magic missile or have wording like the Evoker's force bolts ability saying it's completely blocked by a shield.

Wouldn't that have been annoying if it happened though. I mean, think about it. You build up to it, finally your kineticist can fire bolts of pure force. Aaaand the BBEG is unharmed because they have a level 1 spell cast.

Talk about performance issues. :)

Better than the other energy elements though, right? Things with immunity don't even need to use a spell slot. :p

True, but often the expanded element gives you an option for if they're immune to your element. Course Fire is SOL if they take Fire again at level 7 and encounter anything immune to fire.

Which brings up the point of having a backup in case things go badly. My Goblin Kineticist uses Dervish Dance to deal with things he can't otherwise hurt. For scouting Aetherkineticists, it's not a bad idea for some form of Finesse combat.

My Way of the Wicked TK uses a deck of cards.
Before we escaped the jail and actually got some gear, he was using bits of the guards.
A headbutt here, backhand there, then a flying kick......

My Way of the Wicked TK uses a deck of cards.

Before we escaped the jail and actually got some gear, he was using bits of the guards.
A headbutt here, backhand there, then a flying kick......

Nice! Yeah, it should be easy to find something to TK; finding something stylish and cool is the real trick.

I like the component pouch. It handles the situation with a beautiful bluff/disguise check. Make it abundantly clear that you have a spell component pouch, people think you're a wizard. Sure it's less surprising when you throw a fireball if they know it's coming... the first three or four times... until you're *still* walking through their base casually torching everything in sight with what looks exactly like Fireball over and over. At which point they start to wonder just how high a level you are and whether you have the diamonds and contingencies to back up your claim to godhood.

(Aether/Pyro for offense and utility, not a perfect combo but it does have some nice options)

Or buy a few bags of sling bullets. They're cheep, easy to acquire, and oh so satisfying when the BBEG mocks you for pulling out a small metal sphere instead of a weapon.

Plus, you can do this.

I bought a lot of different stuff for my character, but his decks of cards are his main weapon. I imagine that his kinetic blade is him holding the base of the deck with a bunch of cards sticking out, and then his kinetic whip is all of the cards end to end. :)

Of course, at present, I'm having way too much fun with him to resort to something as pedestrian as dealing damage in combat :D That's what the big dumb fighter and gunslinger are for. I take out the clerical lich by stealing his holy symbol and stop the evil wizard by taking his material components :D

Kahel Stormbender wrote:

Or buy a few bags of sling bullets. They're cheep, easy to acquire, and oh so satisfying when the BBEG mocks you for pulling out a small metal sphere instead of a weapon.

Plus, you can do this.

This would be cooler though, don't you think?

Imbicatus wrote:

Kahel Stormbender wrote:

Or buy a few bags of sling bullets. They're cheep, easy to acquire, and oh so satisfying when the BBEG mocks you for pulling out a small metal sphere instead of a weapon.

Plus, you can do this.

This would be cooler though, don't you think?

Cooler, perhaps, but...

Somehow this discussion brings this movie clip to mind.

Well I remember in Mummy's mask we found a huge gold scorpion statue. My GM decided it was within my weight limit for telekinetic haul so I would basically sit on it while it was moving around. When we would find enemies it was the first thin I would fling in there face. Then I'd reach for enemy or corpses, whichever I had under the hand after my first blast.

HHHHhhhhmmmmm... A Gambler Telekinetist.

"They didn't know I had an Ace up my sleeve."
"Your playing with the Queen of Hearts."
"Just don't know when to fold, do you?"
"Have the Jack of Spades, you knave!"

Sigh, I missed the card game with that one.

Hey guys, anyone ever consider the physics of the aether kineticist? Please consider the following: extreme range, telekinetic haul (+1burn for 1000lbs per lvl), open space, a 45 degree angle and the little line in the telekinetic blast that lets you loosen the aether to throw the object (or at least it can be interpreted as such if you turn your head and squint) gravity is your friend.