Pathfinder Lost Omens: Firebrands

I want Lost Omens to stay Lore, it specifically what I read them for.

Be...be real nice if we could uh...go South though, to a place that rhymes with Boon, maybe??

But since the Dark Omens book keeps getting brought up, I didn't care for it very much at all, as it was nothing like what I expected. I wanted more info about the Occult not just rules and scenarios. Like I wanted lore about Cryptids...and that wasn't really there are all. I know it was a rule book, but I would hate to see the Lost Omens books end up looking like that in any fashion.

I liked the mini-adventures but I can understand why others would want something else in it's place. To me, content is content, and therefore inspiration.

I'm in the "more lore, fewer adventures" group.

I'd like to replace them with 'bar room tales' and 'stories told around the fire'. More folklore, tall tales, things that convey the culture with fables, ghost stories, 'believe it or not' personal accounts of meetings with legendary figures and dieties.

I'm in the "more lore, fewer adventures" group.

I'd like to replace them with 'bar room tales' and 'stories told around the fire'. More folklore, tall tales, things that convey the culture with fables, ghost stories, 'believe it or not' personal accounts of meetings with legendary figures and dieties.

Oooo yeah

Oooo yeah

There's a good example of this in "The Fall Of Plaguestone". Bort Bargith, of Bort's Merchant Caravan, is described this way:

The sidebar gives "a sample of the outlandish stories told by the traveling merchant Bort Bargith" and includes a couple long paragraphs that convey some of these 'outlandish stories'.

One of those stories is about how, one day, while crossing the waters of Lake Encarthan, he and his crew almost drown during a storm. Pharasma is hesitating about their fate because her hair is being blown about by the wind. Bort digs through his lockbox, and hands her a silver comb to hold it in place. She is so impressed that she returns the dwarf and his entire crew to the shores of the lake, alive and well.

Lost Omens settings books seem to be an obvious place to insert some folk lore along with the setting Lore.

ye!

I'm in the "more lore, fewer adventures" group.

I'd like to replace them with 'bar room tales' and 'stories told around the fire'. More folklore, tall tales, things that convey the culture with fables, ghost stories, 'believe it or not' personal accounts of meetings with legendary figures and dieties.

Would be apt for the Firebrands book too since they're fundamentally unserious yarn-spinners, only not so much "tales told by the fire" and more "tales told in the middle of derring-do." Two tales for the price of one.

Dark Archive adventures were some of best adventures I've seen, so that did kind of turn me biased :'D

While I appreciate the feedback I've seen on the matter of adventure content for Lost Omens (and recognize that I'm the one that asked the question that got the conversation going in the first place), I think it might be time to move the topic to its own thread. I'd love to keep the conversation going, but let's bring back the focus on the Firebrands here.

Here's something that might get people talking: Like with Knights of Lastwall, this book features a number of deity entries that fit with the themes of the organizations. Some of these gods are getting stats for the first time. Who could they be?!

If they're getting stat blocks are they Empyreal Lords then? Or "stats" as in like Domains and Boons and whatnot for 2e? Which...is still probably Empyreal Lords, what with how many of them have yet to make the jump to 2e lol Been dying to see Dalenydra get the 2e treatment

I can't believe I've never heard of the Firebrands till now. Chaotic Good is my favorite (and the best) alignment! They sound right up my alley! Gotta say I'm very excited for this book

Luis Loza wrote:

While I appreciate the feedback I've seen on the matter of adventure content for Lost Omens (and recognize that I'm the one that asked the question that got the conversation going in the first place), I think it might be time to move the topic to its own thread. I'd love to keep the conversation going, but let's bring back the focus on the Firebrands here.

Here's something that might get people talking: Like with Knights of Lastwall, this book features a number of deity entries that fit with the themes of the organizations. Some of these gods are getting stats for the first time. Who could they be?!

If they're getting stat blocks are they Empyreal Lords then? Or "stats" as in like Domains and Boons and whatnot for 2e? Which...is still probably Empyreal Lords, what with how many of them have yet to make the jump to 2e lol Been dying to see Dalenydra get the 2e treatment

I can't believe I've never heard of the Firebrands till now. Chaotic Good is my favorite (and the best) alignment! They sound right up my alley! Gotta say I'm very excited for this book

I am pretty sure we are getting new diety statblocks, which is divine font, diety spells, favourite weapon etc.

The only diety (tho also a pretty weak one) we have stats for is Treeraze (lvl 25 demon lord), I believe.

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

Milani hasn't gotten a 2E writeup yet, so that seems pretty obvious. Neither has Chaldira. Cayden and Desna probably get their existing writeups expanded. Everybody else relevant has hitherto been an Empyreal Lord as far as I can tell.

GGSigmar wrote:

The only diety (tho also a pretty weak one) we have stats for is Treeraze (lvl 25 demon lord), I believe.

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

Milani hasn't gotten a 2E writeup yet, so that seems pretty obvious. Neither has Chaldira. Cayden and Desna probably get their existing writeups expanded. Everybody else relevant has hitherto been an Empyreal Lord as far as I can tell.

Milani and Chaldria have both gotten one page write ups in Gods and Magic though? And Milani got another one in Lastwall. She's definitely going to get one for Firebrands too so that'd make it three for her.

We do know that Calistria, Grandmother Spider, Besmara and Ashava are getting write ups at least.

I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.

GGSigmar wrote:

The only diety (tho also a pretty weak one) we have stats for is Treeraze (lvl 25 demon lord), I believe.

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

Milani hasn't gotten a 2E writeup yet, so that seems pretty obvious. Neither has Chaldira. Cayden and Desna probably get their existing writeups expanded. Everybody else relevant has hitherto been an Empyreal Lord as far as I can tell.

Let me introduce you to Treerazer's diety statblock then: https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=26. Mechanically, he is a diety. You can literally be a cleric or a champion of Treerazer.

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

GGSigmar wrote:

The only diety (tho also a pretty weak one) we have stats for is Treeraze (lvl 25 demon lord), I believe.

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

Milani hasn't gotten a 2E writeup yet, so that seems pretty obvious. Neither has Chaldira. Cayden and Desna probably get their existing writeups expanded. Everybody else relevant has hitherto been an Empyreal Lord as far as I can tell.

Let me introduce you to Treerazer's diety statblock then: https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=26. Mechanically, he is a diety. You can literally be a cleric or a champion of Treerazer.

He's strong enough to grant powers to followers, thus making him a deity, but he's still not quite a god (Unless 2e changed that). In 1e he's a Nascent Demon Lord, not even a demigod yet. Once he hits demigod status, that statblock will likely no longer be relevant.

From the Wiki, for those curious on Nascent Demon Lords

Luis had mentioned a new deity in this a while back… I want to say she had a Tian name?

I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.

Arshea, Besmara, Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Chaldira, Desna, Grandmother Spider, Jin Li, Lubaiko, Marishi, Milani, Nivi Rhombodazzle, Picoperi, Thisamet, and Yelayne each get major entries. :)

Oh, and there are four new pantheons!

Patrickthekid wrote:

I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.

Arshea, Besmara, Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Chaldira, Desna, Grandmother Spider, Jin Li, Lubaiko, Marishi, Milani, Nivi Rhombodazzle, Picoperi, Thisamet, and Yelayne each get major entries. :)

Oh, and there are four new pantheons!

"Nivi Rhombodazzle"

Also, we need one off these Pantheon to be the "Pantheon of the C", with Calistria, Cayden Cailean, and Chaldira... just because... gods, that's a lot of "C"s. xD

Patrickthekid wrote:

I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.

Arshea, Besmara, Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Chaldira, Desna, Grandmother Spider, Jin Li, Lubaiko, Marishi, Milani, Nivi Rhombodazzle, Picoperi, Thisamet, and Yelayne each get major entries. :)

Oh, and there are four new pantheons!

That looks like there's some empyreal lords getting some love as well as a couple new deities. Nice.

Milani and Chaldria have both gotten one page write ups in Gods and Magic though? And Milani got another one in Lastwall. She's definitely going to get one for Firebrands too so that'd make it three for her.

My bad. I should've known better than to check the wiki pages of the gods alone.

OH I am hyped for that deity list :3

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

That is not exactly correct. The lore about this changed a bit in 2e, but in pathfinder there are 3 types of deities. Gods, Demigods and Quasi-Deities (now called Lesser Deity).

In 1e (info from Planar Adventures):

Gods never have stats and have 5 domains (e.g. Lamashtu).
Demigods are CR26-30 and have 4 domains (e.g. Demon Lords).
Quasi-deities are CR21-25 and have 1 to 4 domains (e.g. Nascent Demon Lords).

In 2e:

Gods never have stats and have 4 domains.
Demigods don't have stats yet (their avatars do and are LVL 21-25) and have 4 domains like normal gods.
Lesser Deity are LVL21-25 (we also have seen the avatar of one, and it was LVL 17) and have 4 domains like normal gods.

For lesser deities with stats, we have the Treerazer (who is a Nascent Demon Lord) and the Conqueror Worm, maybe some more I don't know about.

Also in 2e there are some previous demigods that are just called gods now, like Nivi Rhombodazzle.

Hooray for a write ip on Calistria and Cayden.

While I understand that divine entities can be important to dofferent nayions and organizations and aome arw going to natirally be more popular in Golarion than others,is it possible to spread the love? Some gods jave like 3 or 4 write ips already.

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

That is not exactly correct. The lore about this changed a bit in 2e, but in pathfinder there are 3 types of deities. Gods, Demigods and Quasi-Deities (now called Lesser Deity).

In 1e (info from Planar Adventures):

Gods never have stats and have 5 domains (e.g. Lamashtu).
Demigods are CR26-30 and have 4 domains (e.g. Demon Lords).
Quasi-deities are CR21-25 and have 1 to 4 domains (e.g. Nascent Demon Lords).

In 2e:

Gods never have stats and have 4 domains.
Demigods don't have stats yet (their avatars do and are LVL 21-25) and have 4 domains like normal gods.
Lesser Deity are LVL21-25 (we also have seen the avatar of one, and it was LVL 17) and have 4 domains like normal gods.

For lesser deities with stats, we have the Treerazer (who is a Nascent Demon Lord) and the Conqueror Worm, maybe some more I don't know about.

Also in 2e there are some previous demigods that are just called gods now, like Nivi Rhombodazzle.

Nivi Rhombodazzle was always a goddess, was she not? I remember she was even among the gods of Inner Sea Faiths.

I'm really happy to see more about the "gnome" goddess. I really like gnomes, but their faith is something that I do feel like it needs more attention in the lore.

Zullock wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

That is not exactly correct. The lore about this changed a bit in 2e, but in pathfinder there are 3 types of deities. Gods, Demigods and Quasi-Deities (now called Lesser Deity).

In 1e (info from Planar Adventures):

Gods never have stats and have 5 domains (e.g. Lamashtu).
Demigods are CR26-30 and have 4 domains (e.g. Demon Lords).
Quasi-deities are CR21-25 and have 1 to 4 domains (e.g. Nascent Demon Lords).

In 2e:

Gods never have stats and have 4 domains.
Demigods don't have stats yet (their avatars do and are LVL 21-25) and have 4 domains like normal gods.
Lesser Deity are LVL21-25 (we also have seen the avatar of one, and it was LVL 17) and have 4 domains like normal gods.

For lesser deities with stats, we have the Treerazer (who is a Nascent Demon Lord) and the Conqueror Worm, maybe some more I don't know about.

Also in 2e there are some previous demigods that are just called gods now, like Nivi Rhombodazzle.

Nivi Rhombodazzle was always a goddess, was she not? I remember she was even among the gods of Inner Sea Faiths.

I'm really happy to see more about the "gnome" goddess. I really like gnomes, but their faith is something that I do feel like it needs more attention in the lore.

Halflings as well.

I do appreciate Golarion's pantheons.

Nivi Rhombodazzle was always a goddess, was she not? I remember she was even among the gods of Inner Sea Faiths.

In 1e she had 4 domains (so not a full god), and was referred either as a Godling or a Demigod. The last rulebook in 1e, Planar Adventures says in page 132: “Nivi Rhombodazzle: Worship of the demigoddes of gambling gems and stealth is popular among many gnomes”.

She wasn't in the Inner Sea Faiths book, but in Inner Sea Gods and Faiths of Purity.

In Inner Sea Gods it was in the section “Gnome Deities” where it says that she achieved divinity thanks to Torag (traded a gem for it) and in Faiths of Purity she is referred to as a Godling.

The term Godling is not used anymore, as far as I know, instead using the term demigod, queasi-deity or lesser deity to refer to those individuals that obtain divinity thanks to a deity intervention.

In Gods and Magic (2e) she was in the section “Gods of the Inner Sea” instead of “Demigods & Other Divinities” so she either ascended in some untold way or is still a demigoddess but was put in the section with the other gods.

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

Nivi Rhombodazzle was always a goddess, was she not? I remember she was even among the gods of Inner Sea Faiths.

In 1e she had 4 domains (so not a full god), and was referred either as a Godling or a Demigod. The last rulebook in 1e, Planar Adventures says in page 132: “Nivi Rhombodazzle: Worship of the demigoddes of gambling gems and stealth is popular among many gnomes”.

She wasn't in the Inner Sea Faiths book, but in Inner Sea Gods and Faiths of Purity.

In Inner Sea Gods it was in the section “Gnome Deities” where it says that she achieved divinity thanks to Torag (traded a gem for it) and in Faiths of Purity she is referred to as a Godling.

The term Godling is not used anymore, as far as I know, instead using the term demigod, queasi-deity or lesser deity to refer to those individuals that obtain divinity thanks to a deity intervention.

In Gods and Magic (2e) she was in the section “Gods of the Inner Sea” instead of “Demigods & Other Divinities” so she either ascended in some untold way or is still a demigoddess but was put in the section with the other gods.

Also worth noting, in 2E many demigods, godlings,etc. have gotten a soft retcon establishing them as full gods, just with a smaller influence on Golarion. That seems to possibly be what has occurred here. Demigods seem to largely be limited to entities like emperyal lords, archdevils, etc. The 5 domains vs. 4 domains does not appear to define full god vs. demigod status.

Also worth noting, in 2E many demigods, godlings,etc. have gotten a soft retcon establishing them as full gods, just with a smaller influence on Golarion.

I wouldn't go that far, spoiler for kingmaker:

Maybe in the future we get the 2e version of mythic adventures and we can fight them, something not possible with full gods in 1e.

Demigods seem to largely be limited to entities like emperyal lords, archdevils, etc. The 5 domains vs. 4 domains does not appear to define full god vs. demigod status.

As I said in a previous comment, yes, there was a soft retcon but for now it's mostly about the number of domains of a deity. Right now most deities are presented ambiguously, not stating in which category they fall under.

Brinebeast wrote:

Also worth noting, in 2E many demigods, godlings,etc. have gotten a soft retcon establishing them as full gods, just with a smaller influence on Golarion.

I wouldn't go that far, spoiler for kingmaker:** spoiler omitted **

Maybe in the future we get the 2e version of mythic adventures and we can fight them, something not possible with full gods in 1e.

Brinebeast wrote:

Demigods seem to largely be limited to entities like emperyal lords, archdevils, etc. The 5 domains vs. 4 domains does not appear to define full god vs. demigod status.

As I said in a previous comment, yes, there was a soft retcon but for now it's mostly about the number of domains of a deity. Right now most deities are presented ambiguously, not stating in which category they fall under.

Hmm, I can see that Avatar of Latern King in PF2 Kingmaker is lvl 24. Where is the lvl 29 coming from?

Zullock wrote:

Brinebeast wrote:

Also worth noting, in 2E many demigods, godlings,etc. have gotten a soft retcon establishing them as full gods, just with a smaller influence on Golarion.

I wouldn't go that far, spoiler for kingmaker:** spoiler omitted **

Maybe in the future we get the 2e version of mythic adventures and we can fight them, something not possible with full gods in 1e.

Brinebeast wrote:

Demigods seem to largely be limited to entities like emperyal lords, archdevils, etc. The 5 domains vs. 4 domains does not appear to define full god vs. demigod status.

As I said in a previous comment, yes, there was a soft retcon but for now it's mostly about the number of domains of a deity. Right now most deities are presented ambiguously, not stating in which category they fall under.

Hmm, I can see that Avatar of Latern King in PF2 Kingmaker is lvl 24. Where is the lvl 29 coming from?

GGSigmar wrote:

Zullock wrote:

Brinebeast wrote:

Also worth noting, in 2E many demigods, godlings,etc. have gotten a soft retcon establishing them as full gods, just with a smaller influence on Golarion.

I wouldn't go that far, spoiler for kingmaker:** spoiler omitted **

Maybe in the future we get the 2e version of mythic adventures and we can fight them, something not possible with full gods in 1e.

Brinebeast wrote:

Demigods seem to largely be limited to entities like emperyal lords, archdevils, etc. The 5 domains vs. 4 domains does not appear to define full god vs. demigod status.

As I said in a previous comment, yes, there was a soft retcon but for now it's mostly about the number of domains of a deity. Right now most deities are presented ambiguously, not stating in which category they fall under.

Hmm, I can see that Avatar of Latern King in PF2 Kingmaker is lvl 24. Where is the lvl 29 coming from?

** spoiler omitted **

Yep that tracks with my previous statement. The Eldest, just like Empyreal Lords and Demon Lords, remain Demigods.

"The Lantern King is one of the Eldest - a pantheon of demigods..."
Kingmaker Adventure Path pg. 600

Tales of Lost Omens: Tall Odds and Broken Bones, flash fiction inspired by Pathfinder Lost Omens: Firebrands!

Tales of Lost Omens: Tall Odds and Broken Bones, flash fiction inspired by Pathfinder Lost Omens: Firebrands!

Thanks be to Comrade Mullen for finally giving the protagonists of Vidrian's revolution a name! Salt Breakers, I like it.

ohhh my order is currently pending. Super excited.

Got my copy! Time to read.

*Looks at the changes in Cheliax* That….is quite unexpected.

Got my copy! Time to read.

*Looks at the changes in Cheliax* That….is quite unexpected.

Well that sounds super curious :O

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

If we have stats for him he ain't a deity. Nor was he ever one.

That is not exactly correct. The lore about this changed a bit in 2e, but in pathfinder there are 3 types of deities. Gods, Demigods and Quasi-Deities (now called Lesser Deity).

In 1e (info from Planar Adventures):

Gods never have stats and have 5 domains (e.g. Lamashtu).
Demigods are CR26-30 and have 4 domains (e.g. Demon Lords).
Quasi-deities are CR21-25 and have 1 to 4 domains (e.g. Nascent Demon Lords).

In 2e:

Gods never have stats and have 4 domains.
Demigods don't have stats yet (their avatars do and are LVL 21-25) and have 4 domains like normal gods.
Lesser Deity are LVL21-25 (we also have seen the avatar of one, and it was LVL 17) and have 4 domains like normal gods.

For lesser deities with stats, we have the Treerazer (who is a Nascent Demon Lord) and the Conqueror Worm, maybe some more I don't know about.

Also in 2e there are some previous demigods that are just called gods now, like Nivi Rhombodazzle.

There is also The Norn lvl. 20 and the Green man lvl. 24

Got my copy! Time to read.

*Looks at the changes in Cheliax* That….is quite unexpected.

Can I ask what the other regions profiled are? I assume Old Cheliax and the High Seas at a minimum.

Knights of Lastwall spared a paragraph or so each for operations in Arcadia and Tian Xia; do the Firebrands get the same here?

There is a sidebar mentions some NPCs and activities in Goka, Iblydos, Nar-Voth, Quain, Segada, Western Ghats. Trying to compare the info in Lastwall to this one but couldn't find the exact Lastwall info you're referencing

A section also gives a bit more on activities in the Eye of Dread, New Thassilon, Nex, Numeria, Osiria, Qadira, River Kingdoms and Taldor

There is a sidebar mentions some NPCs and activities in Goka, Iblydos, Nar-Voth, Quain, Segada, Western Ghats. Trying to compare the info in Lastwall to this one but couldn't find the exact Lastwall info you're referencing

A section also gives a bit more on activities in the Eye of Dread, New Thassilon, Nex, Numeria, Osiria, Qadira, River Kingdoms and Taldor

Iblydos, Numeria, and Segada are all incredibly exciting!

Rude_ wrote:

There is a sidebar mentions some NPCs and activities in Goka, Iblydos, Nar-Voth, Quain, Segada, Western Ghats. Trying to compare the info in Lastwall to this one but couldn't find the exact Lastwall info you're referencing

A section also gives a bit more on activities in the Eye of Dread, New Thassilon, Nex, Numeria, Osiria, Qadira, River Kingdoms and Taldor

Iblydos, Numeria, and Segada are all incredibly exciting!

Yes indeed. I only skimmed it but there are a few Numerian references as well as art.

VerBeeker wrote:

Got my copy! Time to read.

*Looks at the changes in Cheliax* That….is quite unexpected.

Can I ask what the other regions profiled are? I assume Old Cheliax and the High Seas at a minimum.

Knights of Lastwall spared a paragraph or so each for operations in Arcadia and Tian Xia; do the Firebrands get the same here?

The Expanse, Old Cheliax, The Shackles, Galt and Katapesh get larger sections detailing current activities

But the thing about Cheliax that caught my eye initially and then gets expounded upon us in the History sidebars.

But the thing about Cheliax that caught my eye initially and then gets expounded upon us in the History sidebars.

Is it Cheliax banning chattel slavery but replacing it with de facto debt slavery and other predatory practices? Like the forums heavily speculated would happen?

VerBeeker wrote:

But the thing about Cheliax that caught my eye initially and then gets expounded upon us in the History sidebars.

Is it Cheliax banning chattel slavery but replacing it with de facto debt slavery and other predatory practices? Like the forums heavily speculated would happen?

That was also outright said to be happening in an interview a while back.

What Order is that Hellknight on page 21 a part of? The Sparklypoo?

The Expanse, Old Cheliax, The Shackles, Galt and Katapesh get larger sections detailing current activities

Do all of them involve being more or less explicit agents of state foreign policies, or only most of them?

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