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A little surprised nobody hires the Mantis God to deal with the Tyrant. Sure the LG types might not be for it, but some of CG and LN wouldn't care. Given that Iomedae occasionally Asks Asmodeus for advice...maybe asking the Mantis Good to visit her old "friend" might not be such a big deal....or maybe it would.Quite honestly, not stopping him might work out better for Golarion in the long term. As a God, he can't blatantly interfere and if he tries... well, then there are a lot of other "people" (i.e. gods) well on his power level there to slap him on the fingers, as explained in Inner Sea Gods and other products. And you can't tell me he would be worse than Urgathoa somehow.they don't STOP TB, rather, they just slow him down and deny him his fancy nuke.The also stop him from getting to the Startsone and becoming a full on god.
I wonder if the same consideration could be sent to Razmir as well.
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A little surprised nobody hires the Mantis God to deal with the Tyrant. Sure the LG types might not be for it, but some of CG and LN wouldn't care. Given that Iomedae occasionally Asks Asmodeus for advice...maybe asking the Mantis Good to visit her old "friend" might not be such a big deal....or maybe it would.Quite honestly, not stopping him might work out better for Golarion in the long term. As a God, he can't blatantly interfere and if he tries... well, then there are a lot of other "people" (i.e. gods) well on his power level there to slap him on the fingers, as explained in Inner Sea Gods and other products. And you can't tell me he would be worse than Urgathoa somehow.they don't STOP TB, rather, they just slow him down and deny him his fancy nuke.The also stop him from getting to the Startsone and becoming a full on god.
That's true. I bet playing a Red Mantis Assassin through this Adventure Path would make for an awesome and unlikely hero!
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What's the name of the new prestige?What about the new prestige class?You start getting various attributes from different types of pyschopomps (mask, wings) as well as increasing your other class's abilities similar to the Evangelist.
(Don't get too excited by the link, it's just the short description on the wiki page.)
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That's true. I bet playing a Red Mantis Assassin through this Adventure Path would make for an awesome and unlikely hero!A little surprised nobody hires the Mantis God to deal with the Tyrant. Sure the LG types might not be for it, but some of CG and LN wouldn't care. Given that Iomedae occasionally Asks Asmodeus for advice...maybe asking the Mantis Good to visit her old "friend" might not be such a big deal....or maybe it would.Quite honestly, not stopping him might work out better for Golarion in the long term. As a God, he can't blatantly interfere and if he tries... well, then there are a lot of other "people" (i.e. gods) well on his power level there to slap him on the fingers, as explained in Inner Sea Gods and other products. And you can't tell me he would be worse than Urgathoa somehow.they don't STOP TB, rather, they just slow him down and deny him his fancy nuke.The also stop him from getting to the Startsone and becoming a full on god.
Ye!
They even have a thematic Prestige Class for such an endeavor :3
They even have a thematic Prestige Class for such an endeavor :3
What's the best way to qualify for this prestige class? (i.e. anyone knows if a certain class or PrC or archetype gives you these for free: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre) )
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Inquisitor is probably your best bet, due to the high 3rd level spells requirement.They even have a thematic Prestige Class for such an endeavor :3What's the best way to qualify for this prestige class? (i.e. anyone knows if a certain class or PrC or archetype gives you these for free: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre) )
Warpriest with or without the Mantis Zealot archetype gets free proficiency and free Weapon Focus, but won’t get 3rd level spells until 7th level. Still nets more of the prereq feats than Inquisitors, though, and gets bonus combat feats to make up for taking Great Fortitude.
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Warpriest with or without the Mantis Zealot archetype gets free proficiency and free Weapon Focus, but won’t get 3rd level spells until 7th level. Still nets more of the prereq feats than Inquisitors, though, and gets bonus combat feats to make up for taking Great Fortitude.Inquisitor is probably your best bet, due to the high 3rd level spells requirement.They even have a thematic Prestige Class for such an endeavor :3What's the best way to qualify for this prestige class? (i.e. anyone knows if a certain class or PrC or archetype gives you these for free: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre) )
I was going to suggest the crusader cleric archetype. Five levels gets you 3rd level spells and two bonus combat feats (including Weapon Focus at 1st level), and the exotic weapon proficiency for the deity. You'd either have to go Favored for skill points, human Skilled, or have a 12 Int for the third skill point, but then you could go all-in the PrC at 6th.
I have a question, and I have a sinking feeling that the answer is "no".
Do we get the domains/subdomains/favored weapon for Tar-Baphon once he becomes a god? I'd be really interested in what "God-Baphon"'s crunch is and it'd be pretty cool for if I want to run a homebrew where he succeeded in getting the Starstone.
Ugh, thought so. Would've been cool.
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I have a question, and I have a sinking feeling that the answer is "no".
Do we get the domains/subdomains/favored weapon for Tar-Baphon once he becomes a god? I'd be really interested in what "God-Baphon"'s crunch is and it'd be pretty cool for if I want to run a homebrew where he succeeded in getting the Starstone.
Subdomains: Arcane, Catastrophe, Daemon, Fear (BotD), Memory, Undead
Death, Evil, Knowledge, and Magic are largely givens, as far as I'm concerned. Destruction's a nice fit given his embracing artifact-powered super-weapons—and generally solving problems by blasting them to pieces (weren't you a necromancer, buddy?).
For subdomains, I find Arcane and Undead are pretty straightforward. Catastrophe and Fear reflect the ways he leads and tries to get his way in the Lost Omens setting. Daemon's a solid pick, especially given he doesn't seem to shrug at the notion of using daemons to conquer areas. And Memory's an interesting one, particularly since part of his magical prowess seems to come from stealing the knowledge of a runelord. To that end Trickery (Thievery) would be a "creative" pick that just doesn't quite do it for me.
Favored weapon's likely a dagger, as that's his go-to in stat blocks.
** spoiler omitted **I have a question, and I have a sinking feeling that the answer is "no".
Do we get the domains/subdomains/favored weapon for Tar-Baphon once he becomes a god? I'd be really interested in what "God-Baphon"'s crunch is and it'd be pretty cool for if I want to run a homebrew where he succeeded in getting the Starstone.
Thank you so much! Since you're the writer of this module this pretty much counts as being "from the horse's mouth" in my opinion; so I have no complaints now. Look forward to reading about the Tyrant's hijinks and shenanigans in the Lost Omens book!
I have it in my downloads, so it has been shipped some days ago.
I completely forgot about the Warpriest, sorry Warpriest.
Death Slayer appears PFS legal as well...
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The more i think of the ending the more i like it. This ap is defently not for everyone but i teally like how bitter sweet and boderline depressing it is. Plus thematically its great
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This ending was trash. I cannot begin to imagine the rage my players would feel if I sprung that on them at the end of this campaign. Sure, there's an excerpt about "oh but if that's too harsh you can X" but that's baloney. There's one ending in mind.
PF needs to do an announcement about APs "not being for everyone." I am fine with just about anything, but the laziness of endless dungeon crawls, pages of bio for npcs the pcs have literally no reason not to instantly kill - seriously, they're undead monsters who serve the Tyrant, why are they chatting them up - and then to top it off with the Magical McGuffin Magically McGuffining ad infinitum is about the least imaginative end to the PF1e run I can think of. Good thing there are no consequences, Absalom is perfectly fine, and they don't even have to worry about any heroes to recognize in the future!
I would have opted out of this without a second thought.
I feel like as long as you let the players now at character creation that this i a different ap where theres no real happy ending i think itll work,theres defently pepole that would enjoy it. Its defently somthing id let my players know about before hand tho
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They do do an announcement about “not being for everyone”, the Player’s Guide lists this AP’s theme as Survival Horror. That’s not for everyone.
As for “springing” this on players you don’t, they learn about their fate at the end of the previous volume.
As for the NPCs those bios aren’t worthless, not everyone plays a mindless murder machine, this volume is about disrupting the Tyrant’s army before you confront him, so you can interact with the NPCs to sow discord at large to do so.
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As for the NPCs those bios aren’t worthless, not everyone plays a mindless murder machine, this volume is about disrupting the Tyrant’s army before you confront him, so you can interact with the NPCs to sow discord at large to do so.
Just putting it out there, but destroying the leadership structure usually also sows discord. And, if you're a minion of the Tyrant, and undead, chances are you're borderline fanatic so chances are under normal circumstances, maybe betrayal or a coup isn't the go-to strategy. They might not be though. While undeath tends to be a reward for loyal service, it could be a punishment. Maybe they want to usurp the Tyrant. Don't know. Haven't read it yet. Just saying that maybe xeose4 isn't in the wrong to voice an opinion regarding the final book of 1e, and what a standard group of PCs might do. Especially if a paladin or two are in the party, or even someone who worships Pharasma. That'll be on the GM to curb things though. Keep that train on the railroad.
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And, if you're a minion of the Tyrant, and undead, chances are you're borderline fanatic so chances are under normal circumstances, maybe betrayal or a coup isn't the go-to strategy.Not the case here, or rather, his minions may be but his allies are not. Namely those who serve Urgathoa.
While undeath tends to be a reward for loyal service, it could be a punishment.Also the case in this volume.
Maybe they want to usurp the Tyrant.Also the case in this volume.
Don't know. Haven't read it yet.It kinda shows.
Just saying that maybe xeose4 isn't in the wrong to voice an opinion regarding the final book of 1e, and what a standard group of PCs might do.Despite the stereotypes mindless murder machines is not the standard group I will say.
Especially if a paladin or two are in the party, or even someone who worships Pharasma.
They honestly won’t have an issue with this volume from what I’ve read.
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Not a fan of the as written ending myself but easy enough to put in the get out clause they mention previous issue. I will say that after watching the way another Ap does a similair ending Paizo handled it a looooot better.Did one of D&D campaigns do that or what do you mean?
Legendary planets ending is also of the TPK variety and you dont find that out till the last book (Unless I missed something)
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I'm not a fan of the AP myself, but I wouldn't call it bad, just not for me.
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I have to agree with Xeose, this AP has been a disappointment, and IMO has very little to do with actual 'Survival Horror'. I think Last Watch is the only adventure worth mentioning in that regard, and it's also the only adventure which had nice maps and a good plot. I mean, tooth fairies and plants... really?!? And all the tricky parts in the campaign plot are handwaved with vague references to "cosmic coincidence". That is just bad writing and lazy design.
All in all my strongest impression is that this whole AP feels like it must have originated as the script for a canceled CRPG; there is just so much railroading and awkward quests ("Greetings, tralevelers! I'm a glowing ball of light that might be able to help you, if you help me first!"), at least one Deus-Ex-Machina per adventure and all sorts of McGuffins restricting PCs to adventure locale to ensure they keep on the rails.
And the final climax is that the McGuffin empowering the PCs will make them wither and die, which should encourage them to sacrifice themselves in the final adventure... IMO that is once again lazy design.
As for 'Survival Horror', Strange Aeons and Carrion Crown both do that far better tham Tyrant's Grasp!
(BTW, I thought Borne by the Sun's Grace is actually so boring that I'm going to return it to my FLGS to get my money back... :/)
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I have to agree with Xeose, this AP has been a disappointment, and IMO has very little to do with actual 'Survival Horror'.What makes you say that?
And all the tricky parts in the campaign plot are handwaved with vague references to "cosmic coincidence". That is just bad writing and lazy design.?
at least one Deus-Ex-Machina per adventure
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I definitely feel like there is some hyperbole going on, the previous parts I have seen haven't seemed bad, you are more describing subjective "I don't like they used tooth fairies" than objective "its bad they used tooth fairies"
Having watched Hellboy 2 and fought against Pathfinder Tooth Fairies, I can safely say they are legitimately scary critters.
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Tooth fairys can be terrfying, don't know about you but i like my teeth in my mouth than you very mutch
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The problem wasn't with the tooth faeries themselves but where they were placed.
Which wasn't in this adventure, so it's not relevant.
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It's not just about tooth fairies; it's about how this whole AP has been written and designed. It starts with a strong premise, but the whole "cosmic coincidence"-thing and heavy use of MacGuffins with certain elements is (IMHO) just lazy and unimaginative. Tooth fairies are not scary to me, and the illustration in the Bestiary makes them seem like cute little critters. I also think they're a bit silly and would fit better for a more light-hearted campaign than as adversaries in a "Survival Horror" module.
I think it's sad to see the drop of quality in the final AP for PF1. Others may disagree, naturally, but I've been on Paizo's wagon ever since the beginning and I haven't yet felt this way before (although I *do* think the quality has been steadily dropping ever since Hell's Rebels).
I'm fairly sure Age of Ashes will be better, at least based on what I've heard and read of it. :)
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In my books 'Survival Horror' is about (for example) escaping ruined asylums, fighting unimaginable monsters or fleeing from werewolf packs in the middle of a dark forest. Ergo, surviving with very little resources, often in an alien and/or unknown environment.
That is how Dead Roads begins, but it soon turns into a weird computer game-ish mess of running errands for signatures before the (mandatory) final encounter. These quests feel really awkward in the style of "Hello, you Special People, we are two Psychopomps who are inept in our jobs and if you help us we will help you! You need to fulfill three quests to be judged Worthy!" And lo and behold, I can almost see the map of the Dead Roads on my computer screen, with three possible encounter locations highlighted on it.
There are two references to "cosmic coincidence" in the backstory, and one of them concerns how the obols just happened to hit the PCs. Because Mythic rules couldn't be used, this was the "creative" solution to the problem, and the obols also work as an ever-present MacGuffin that eventually kind of force the PCs to sacrifice themselves. If Arazni has some kind of presence in most modules anyway, why not let her secretly choose the PCs as a reservoir of power, granting them the same abilities those obols do? Maybe she could have recognised that the PCs are linked to her destiny, or seen that they're Special People (TM) who will grow in strength and power to rival WT's own advisors? I think there are other ways than random chance to incorporate the proto-Mythic powers in the story.
Another "cosmic coincidence" is that the PCs look like the original Red Shrikes in whose sarcofagi they wake up. That is just a minor detail in the grand scale of things, however.
I also feel that the way Barsakh acts as a Deus-Ex-Machina and MacGuffin is a bit awkward, especially when the PCs wake up in Roslar's Coffer to find themselves as "prisoners" due to another powerful MacGuffin and have to run another set of silly errands for a glowing ball of light. At least I would call them "silly", since I can't honestly think how teaching kids at school or killing plants that are bothering the elderly couple would be "Survival Horror", not in the context they are presented in the adventure. It also bothers me that all the puzzles in this AP are quite childish and trivial, and most exploration or roleplaying encounters are (apparently) meant to be won via series of skill checks. At least that is my impression, and it's a bit sad that convincing the Knights of Ozem to withdraw is just another High-DC Diplomacy check.
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*nods*
It does, so it’s the fact that it combines happenstance and fate. Honestly I wasn’t bothered by that that much happenstance is how pretty much all APs start for the characters.
Very true, and as PCs are always protagonists it's naturally part of the social contract between players and GM; however, I find it annoying if it's presented in such a flagrant manner in the backstory. I mean, it's assumed that the player characters will be central to the story, but underlining that with such an expression is just silly to me.
I would have preferred a more focused and coherent beginning, such as: "All PCs are residents of Roslar's Coffer, whether they were born there or moved into the village at some point of time." Let the players know this and let them work their backgrounds to fit accordingly. Then start the campaign with a short vignette-style encounter, maybe at the local inn earlier during the evening, although it would probably be even better if they had time to complete a couple of short quests before the tragedy befalls.
Anyway, I think that way your PCs will be emotionally more attached to the town and its residents, they might even actually feel like they're part of the community.
If the PCs just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time because they need to be, and it's random chance they're chosen, that just doesn't fly with me. It's lazy design, IMO.
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But then people would have complained about Paizo starting yet another AP off with "you meet at the festival" XD
More seriously I don't disagree in that regard, I would have liked the party being able to interact more with the locals and each other in the opening, but the you all wake up dead approach does have its charm.
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But then people would have complained about Paizo starting yet another AP off with "you meet at the festival" XD
More seriously I don't disagree in that regard, I would have liked the party being able to interact more with the locals and each other in the opening, but the you all wake up dead approach does have its charm.
Heh, maybe not if it started with a quiet evening at an inn after a hard day's work at the temple/homestead/forge/tavern/stables/shop/whatever? No festival, just drinking some beers with your local neighbours, then going to bed to get some rest before another day of toiling. ;)
It does have its charm, although it would probably be even more effective and alarming if they had a chance to interact with the townsfolk and maybe get a quest or two under their belt. But that's my preference.
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But then people would have complained about Paizo starting yet another AP off with "you meet at the festival" XD
More seriously I don't disagree in that regard, I would have liked the party being able to interact more with the locals and each other in the opening, but the you all wake up dead approach does have its charm.
Heh, maybe not if it started with a quiet evening at an inn after a hard day's work at the temple/homestead/forge/tavern/stables/shop/whatever? No festival, just drinking some beers with your local neighbours, then going to bed to get some rest before another day of toiling. ;)
It does have its charm, although it would probably be even more effective and alarming if they had a chance to interact with the townsfolk and maybe get a quest or two under their belt. But that's my preference.
*nods*
That's actually how our GM ran it, had everyone interacting with the festival as we waited for everyone to finish their characters. And by everyone I mean me >_<
You don't even get to fight him?
Eh. I think I'll replace that part with homebrew.
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You do in fact fight the Whispering Tyrant.
Whoever said you don't is incorrect.
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Meanwhile, I just bury my head in the entire thing and read until the end of the adventure before making any real judgment.