I've been hoping for a ninth level alchemical caster for a while, so it'll be really nice if that is what's coming with this book.
They don’t release new classes in these books, and that seems beyond what an archetype could pull off.
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I don't think it'd be out of the question to get an alchemically inclined witch archetype, but I doubt it'd be a full alchemical caster.
I'm hoping we see some good new rogue talents in this one to go with the archetype!
I know there are already a bagilion, but I always like seeing new Rogue talents and archetypes that improve poison use.
The Ranger Toxic Herbalist archetype is one of my favorites out of Ultimate Wilderness and it seems like a similar class archetype could fit here.
I am all for any class option that isn't a feat, spell, or archetype. Not that I don't value those, it is just I value the others more.
That's simply too much content for a 32-page book, IMO. I could see something like that showing up in one of the PFRPG rule books, maybe even a Campaign Setting, but not a Player's Companion.
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I'm with Alchemaic. Poisons are nerfed enough as it is, having laughably low save DCs in nearly every case. Poisons are no longer anything to be feared like they were in 1e and 2e.
It would be nice to have some means to increase poison DCs. That would solve most of the problem (though I acknowledge the power of poison still pales to what it was in 2nd Edition).
I'm looking forward to the Vishkanya feats/Archetypes. I have a Vishkanya character that I'm not 100% sure what to do with, so I'd welcome some odd new Archetypes for classes that go a bit afield of roguish sorts, like Bloodrager or Swashbuckler. A heavily-adulterated "psychic warrior" sort of Mesmerist would be nice, too.
Pulpy though it might sound, I question the concept of a "Scorpion" Bloodline - why not a "polluted/toxic waste mutant" kind of thing? And a Bloodrager analogue while they're at it?
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I hope it will come with some clarification for the Harvesting Poison rules from the Ultimate Wilderness manual, which, as it is, is unusable (the time to craft to preserve is incompatible with the 24 hours duration of the poison), with the much-needed rules for poison market price calculation (necessary to preserve poisons of monsters from Bestiary), with some addendum to the Foraging & Salvaging rules of Ultimate Wilderness to draw raw material from the environment, with some cheap and useful poison and with some nice rule for the custom creation of new poisons and alchemical items...
But frankly I have the impression that lately the trend is towards overpriced poisons and alchemical items, restricted or nerfed feats and not-so-inspired archetypes which is a pity! :(
Skarm
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New ninja tricks and rogue talents would be nice also...
...ninja seems to not have many options!
Skarm
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I hope it will come with some clarification for the Harvesting Poison rules from the Ultimate Wilderness manual, which, as it is, is unusable (the time to craft to preserve is incompatible with the 24 hours duration of the poison), with the much-needed rules for poison market price calculation (necessary to preserve poisons of monsters from Bestiary), with some addendum to the Foraging & Salvaging rules of Ultimate Wilderness to draw raw material from the environment, with some cheap and useful poison and with some nice rule for the custom creation of new poisons and alchemical items...
But frankly I have the impression that lately the trend is towards overpriced poisons and alchemical items, restricted or nerfed feats and not-so-inspired archetypes which is a pity! :(
Skarm
If we go by the basis of assuming a craft check represents a weeks work then we clearly would have major problems preserving poisons. and doing a lot of alchemy. the thing is alchemy is more of a daily check. with the raw ingredient cost removed its should be a simple roll vs to preserve. you really only get a few attempts to preserve each day, depending on the poison, but its better than "the rule mechanic that also governs crafting objects and items, including ones of METALS, STONE, and naturally more complex set ups like ships and buildings, clearly prevents me from doing this thing that i should have no problem with."
as i would say above all, Ask your gm. normally they will be the final arbiter in such matters. as for me, i would say daily, with some careful work. after all, if the game lets you make healing wands with a bunch of troll livers, then i'm sure you can use alchemy to preserve the spider venom you just harvested.
EDIT:Turns out alchemy can be done in minutes, and poisons especially so since there are also feats specifically designed to maximize poison crafting output to the point of thousands of doses crafted in a short space of time. limited only by supply, which naturally means what you can harvest and process.
so in short, please be more aware. you are right that we do need some rules for making new poisons and combining older poisons with alchemy for composite toxins. who doesn't want to make a poison that causes a mixture of symptoms rather then simply one very strong poison.
EDIT:Turns out alchemy can be done in minutes, and poisons especially so since there are also feats specifically designed to maximize poison crafting output to the point of thousands of doses crafted in a short space of time. limited only by supply, which naturally means what...
Wait...from which manual or developer answer or FAQ you have found this?? :-?
Is it a standard thing or a specific class feature/alternate rule?
Skarm
EDIT:Turns out alchemy can be done in minutes, and poisons especially so since there are also feats specifically designed to maximize poison crafting output to the point of thousands of doses crafted in a short space of time. limited only by supply, which naturally means what...
Wait...from which manual or developer answer or FAQ you have found this?? :-?
Is it a standard thing or a specific class feature/alternate rule?
Skarm
Spontaneous Alchemy from the Alchemy Manual allows you to make alchemical substances rapidly with the right—relatively expensive—alchemical substances on hand.
It would be nice to have some means to increase poison DCs.
There are some feats about it:
1) Powerful Poisoning is based on Power Attack
2) Pernicious Stab relies on sneak attack, as its close sibling Treacherous Toxin
3) Insightful Delivery works for investigators
4) Poisoner's Channel indirectly increases DC by lowering the saves by 4 (needs level 5 and worship of Norgorber, though)
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Anyone have a copy yet?
Yes, so frame your questions! I'll try to get to them in the morning (it is late here and I have had a long day!)
:)
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If someone has the chance to list the archetypes and character options at some point that'd be awesome. :)
Anyone have a copy yet?Yes, so frame your questions! I'll try to get to them in the morning (it is late here and I have had a long day!)
:)
What are the feats looking like in this? Also, is the Alchemist archetype any good?
What do witches get in terms of hexes or archetypes? Thank you.
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well...
familiar gets a witch scaling dex poison on bite or claw. if they dont have claws or bite, the familiar can spit poison. they lose their level hex for this. they suffer no ill effects from milking venom from their familiar which replaces their 2nd level hex. and they can poison people that inflict bleed on her, and also deliver their poison through her fortitude based spells. she loses her 6th level hex for that.
Hex wise is where they got a rather good set.
Poison touch is nails,, but can been given also to allies, delivers a scaling str poison, and if the target already have claws, you keep the poison bu the dc get higher by 1 for witch level in minutes.
as for major hexes...
And finally withering... 30ft target moved up and age catagory(cannot go past vulnerable), while witch gains temporary hit points and an extra +2 enhancement bonus to strength, con, or dex for hours equal to int mod. the affected can negate the effect with a fort save, and once succefully saved, they cannot be affected again. keep away from dragons unless you want to do some rather amusing dragon buffing shenanigans.
They also got some spells but best to let other people cover the spells in depth.
Can you tell us what the Alchemist and Investigator gets? Any new Talents/Discoveries of interest?
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Investigator
RECKLESS EPICURAN
Loses trapfinding and 2 discoveries
Gets the ability to identify potions, the ability to prepare 1 or more extracts they don't know with some wild magic risks, 13th level+ on drinking a potions gets save vs spells of the same school
TOXIN CODEXER
Poison Lore at 1st level
Poison extracts - lose a discovery and trapfinding can replace extract slots with poisons whcih get a save DC based on Level and intelligence
Modify toxins- replaces keen recollection and trap sense, can modify poison effects for both benefits or damage by using inspiration
Discoveries
Anathama and greater Anathma- when preparing a poison pick a ranger favored enemy and reduce its DR, SR , energy resistance, movement or fast healing
Lingering venon
your poisons take one more save to cure
So what is the scorpion sorcerer bloodline like?
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Scorpion sorceror
gets poison based spells and Vermin form (scorpion only)
Bloodline arcana lets them use poison without hurting themselves]
At level 1 they get the ability to apply a poison which scales with level to their own or an ally nearbys weapon, at level 11 + all allies
Level 3 they can change a poisons onset time, at level 9 they can poison someone and activate it as a swift action within the next week
level 9 full action in a suprise round and sla Accelerate and delay poison
Level 15 burrow speed and tremor sense
Level 20 automatically attempt to poison 3 people who move adjacent to you on success they die
The thing I like best is the Vishkanya racial feats which allow them to use their poison to dispel magic, or give themselves a Ghost weapon ability and ultimately create a forbiddance effect with their venom
Any cool wizard class options? If nothing else is there at least a few spells they can use?
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If someone has the chance to list the archetypes and character options at some point that'd be awesome. :)
Bard: Disciple of the forked tongue
Druid: Mantella
Fighter: Venomblade
Investigator: Reckless epicurean, Toxin codexer
Rogue: Needler, Rotdrinker, Swamp poisoner
Witch: Venom siphoner
Dispelling Blood
Ghostbane Ichor
Healing Potion
Hemorrhaging Venom (Combat)
Lengthy Potion
Noxious Touch
Poison Resin
Toxic Secretions
Toxic Spray (Combat)
Unraveling Blood
Vaporous Potion
Virulent Venom (Combat)
Viscous Venom (Combat)
Warding Blood
Enduring Toxin
Lasting Tinctures
Gossamer Veil
Hush
Inspiration Dust
Keleshite Coffee
Magesight
Oblivion
Old-mage
Ruk tar
Serpent's Kiss
Sting's Savor
Vigilance
Elixir of Countless Eyes
Elixir of the Infernal Familiar
Elixir of Vicious Magic
Fiery Maw Elixir
Healer’s Aid
Steelsheen Elixir
Spirit Rush
Swarmform Elixir
Wraith’s Sight Elixir
Fleshcraft Elixirs:
Adhesive Slime
Ring of Eyes
Webbed Appendages
Band of Efficacious Death (Ring)
Blight Kickers (Wondrous—Feet)
Death’s Will (Wondrous—Hands)
Harvester’s Kit—Mundane, for use with poison harvesting rules from Ultimate Wilderness
Miasmatic Mask (Wondrous—Head)
Poisoned Locket—Mundane (a classic)
Poisoned Quill—Mundane (cute double entendre, though)
Poisoner’s Goblet—Mundane (the vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true. :D )
Reaper’s Wisdom (Wondrous—Shoulders)
Shroud of Venom (Wondrous—Shoulders)
Stalker’s Oil—Mundane (reduces the sound armor and equipment makes while moving)
Toxic Censer—Mundane (breathe it in)
Anti-Poisoner’s Gear:
Aegis of Recovery, Greater (Wondrous—Neck)
Alchemist’s Aspergillum (Weapon)
Apron of the Careful Chemist (Wondrous—Chest)
Band of Toxin Nullification (Ring)
Eye of Crystallized Venom (Wondrous—Neck)
Forbearer’s Grace (Wondrous—Neck)
Gloves of Restrained Death (Wondrous—Neck)
Harvester’s Bindings (Wondrous—Wrists)
Headband of the Tainted Ouroboros (Wondrous—Headband)
Periapt of Proof Against Paralysis (Wondrous—Neck)
Venombane Lozenges (Alchemical)
Vest of Resonating Fortitude (Wondrous—Chest)
Greater Gift of Consumption
Poison Touch
Major Hexes: Restless Slumber
Withering
Witch Spells: Antitoxin touch: alchemist 1, druid 1, ranger 1, shaman 1, witch 1
Poisonous cloud: bloodrager 4, magus 4, shaman 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, summoner 4, witch 4
Toxic blood: alchemist 3, bloodrager 3, cleric 3, druid 3, investigator 3, magus 3, ranger 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3, witch 3
Investigator Talents: Anathema
Greater Anathema
Lingering Venom
Rogue Talents: Accurate Poisoner
Lingering Poison
Signature Poison
Toxic Regurgitation
Slayer Talents: Focused Poison
Redirect Poison
Diplopic serum—Injury
Gelidburn oil—Injury
Hydrofluoric acid—Contact
Insecticide—Inhaled
Juvebloom—Ingested
Nerveblast—Injury
Ossivane—Injury
Pupil’s friend—Ingested (Fred and George Weasley’s Puking Pastilles!)
Tongue twist—Injury
Clay skin: alchemist 3, bloodrager 3, inquisitor 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3
Glimpse the hidden: alchemist 3, inquisitor 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3, witch 3
Identifier’s eye: alchemist 2, bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner 2, witch 2
Phase Step: alchemist 3, bard 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3, witch 3
Undeath Sense: alchemist 2, cleric 2, inquisitor 2, paladin 2, shaman 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Alluring philter
Artistic ale
Brawler’s brew
Dodger’s draught
Explorer’s emulsion
Leaper’s libation
Liquid courage
Mage’s assistant
Mirage mixture
Nimble nectar
Prowler’s palliative
Sorcerer’s spirits
Starlight juice
Stout solution
Thinker’s tipple
Titan’s tonic
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Spells
Antttoxin touch. 1st level lets you handle poisons safely
Poisonous cloud 4th level version of Cloudkill
Toxic blood 3rd level similar to caustic blood but poison instead of acid damage
Clayskin 3rd level version of Stoneskin, potions can be made
Glimpse the hidden 3rd level version of see invisible, can be cast on others
Identifiers Eye 2nd level lets unskilled people identify magical items, can be made into a potion
Phase step 3rd level version of Dimension door, shorter range can be a potion
Undeath Sense 2nd level, as detect undead but can be cast on someone else
If someone has the chance to list the archetypes and character options at some point that'd be awesome. :)Delayed Potion
Dispelling Blood
Ghostbane Ichor
Healing Potion
Hemorrhaging Venom (Combat)
Lengthy Potion
Noxious Touch
Poison Resin
Toxic Secretions
Toxic Spray (Combat)
Unraveling Blood
Vaporous Potion
Virulent Venom (Combat)
Viscous Venom (Combat)
Warding Blood
How many of those are racially locked? I can see at least 6 which look like they're tied to Vishkayna and Grippli.
No
But I have never heard of this as an issue before.
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3 Grippli, 4 Vishkanya and 4 Nagaji feats. Basically the potion feats are not racial
3 Grippli, 4 Vishkanya and 4 Nagaji feats. Basically the potion feats are not racial
Well, those are basically getting written off now. That's disappointing.
Wow! Those spells seem really cool. Eagerly awaiting my shipping notice now....
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I'm very impressed by what the witches are getting here from your guy's descriptions.
3 Grippli, 4 Vishkanya and 4 Nagaji feats. Basically the potion feats are not racial
Cool more love for grippli.
What does each spell do?
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Oooo, I wonder what the Blood feats do...
Dispelling Blood: your blood can dispel magic instead of poison
Unraveling Blood: your blood can act as a break enchantment spell instead of poison (Dispelling Blood is a prereq)
Warding Blood: your blood can create a magic barrier like forbiddance (Ghostbane Ichor is a prereq)
As a GM, lots of juicy items for my npcs and monsters.
I really like the greater Aegis of Recovery. A +5 resistance bonus on all saving throws to recover from continuing effects, even things like hold person, and a 5d8+7 HP heal when dropped below 0 HP. Best part, it crumbles to dust after the HP heal, perfect for a one time use npc in fight vs the PCs.
So is there actually anything that improves the DCs for poisons in here? I'm guessing one or two of the archetypes have an ability for that purpose (assuming they don't have a special class-locked poison like the Scorpion bloodline), but the equipment seems to be mostly poison preventative or just has alternative ways of delivering poison.
So is there actually anything that improves the DCs for poisons in here? I'm guessing one or two of the archetypes have an ability for that purpose (assuming they don't have a special class-locked poison like the Scorpion bloodline), but the equipment seems to be mostly poison preventative or just has alternative ways of delivering poison.
Alchemist and Slayer get non-archetype options for it. Investigators get a non-archetype way around poison immunity and an archetype that can give higher DCs to certain poisons.
Rogues also get an option, but it only applies to a single type of poison. That said, since there's a trait that gets you immunity to a single injury poison, you can get a pretty efficient setup.
Rogues also get an option, but it only applies to a single type of poison. That said, since there's a trait that gets you immunity to a single injury poison, you can get a pretty efficient setup.
Wouldn't Poison Use be the better way to get around that?
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All right, so! Stuff I liked.
Trait for immunity to a specific injury poison with some other benefits is really nice.
The Nagaji Spit Venom feats are a well-designed feat chain. Each feat in the chain not only improves the effect, but also gives you another use per day. Only one of the feats has an extraneous prereq apart from earlier feats. The archetype supporting it is pretty cool, too. Am I going to play a Nagaji? Maybe not, but this gives me a reason to consider it.
Scorpion bloodline is nice- I particularly like it as something to pick up through feats. It's nice to see a poison ability that doesn't require personally entering melee as a 1/2 BAB class.
Those Witch hexes. First time I've seen something for them that felt comparably broken to Slumber, and this is split across two hexes. That said, two hexes to be better at fort saves than the Paladin? Dang.
What I consider the very best thing in the book, though, is the Toxin Codexer Investigator. You prepare a variety of free poisons with your extract slots. The DC is based on the slot and your Int mod. You can still prepare regular extracts. And, to top it off, you can use inspiration to attach no-save riders (either debuffs or buffs/cures!) to your poisons. The addition that makes it all work is a discovery that allows you to get around creatures' poison immunity if you plan for it. I think this is the poisoner archetype a lot of people have been waiting for.
Some of the poisons and drugs are pretty cool. Hydrofluoric acid is present, and as terrifying as it should be. (There's a conflict between the entry and the table- it's either 1 strength drain or 1d2 strength drain, along with several other effects.) The comic-book levels of dissolving the entire body afterward are amusing. The drug that grants constant Detect Magic for at least ten minutes at a trifling sum of 15 gold is the first drug I've seen in Pathfinder to be convincingly addictive on a mechanical level.
Rogues also get an option, but it only applies to a single type of poison. That said, since there's a trait that gets you immunity to a single injury poison, you can get a pretty efficient setup.Wouldn't Poison Use be the better way to get around that?
… No? Poison Use takes a talent. Full immunity to one injury poison is a trait, and it comes with a save bonus vs. the most common poison category. The talent to increase DC only applies to one type of poison, so you can get an efficient poisoning setup for a talent and a trait.
If you want to use lots of different poisons, you need to spend one talent per poison you want to boost the DC of. But at that point, yeah, you'd need Poison Use.