Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory 2 (PFRPG)

Rysky wrote:

Alchemaic wrote:

shaventalz wrote:

Alchemaic wrote:

So, is there anything particularly broken about the Dazzled condition? Like is there some way to upgrade it to Blinded or something that I don't know about? Dirty Trick Master can upgrade it to Dazed, but that only applies if the original condition came from another Dirty Trick.

Well, Huntmaster Cavaliers with a bird companion can get a free dirty trick (blind) attempt if the target is already dazzled. Other than that, I've got nothing.

So, why is the Burnished armor mod 1/day? It's not like a -1 to attacks/sight-based perception is more than a drop in the bucket at the level you could afford it.

It's not 1/per day, a creature can only be affected by it once per day. The ability itself is always on.

Okay, same thing. Why can a creature only be affected 1/day?

Does it last a few rounds? If so, maybe the designer assumed they'd be dead before it wore off.

Is it at least fairly cheap? Because I'm having real problems justifying plans to pick up Spear Dancer on my debuff fighter.

Disclaimer: I don't have the book, and am just guessing here.

Alchemaic wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Alchemaic wrote:

shaventalz wrote:

Alchemaic wrote:

So, is there anything particularly broken about the Dazzled condition? Like is there some way to upgrade it to Blinded or something that I don't know about? Dirty Trick Master can upgrade it to Dazed, but that only applies if the original condition came from another Dirty Trick.

Well, Huntmaster Cavaliers with a bird companion can get a free dirty trick (blind) attempt if the target is already dazzled. Other than that, I've got nothing.

So, why is the Burnished armor mod 1/day? It's not like a -1 to attacks/sight-based perception is more than a drop in the bucket at the level you could afford it.

It's not 1/per day, a creature can only be affected by it once per day. The ability itself is always on.

Okay, same thing. Why can a creature only be affected 1/day?

Does it last a few rounds? If so, maybe the designer assumed they'd be dead before it wore off.

It lasts for exactly 1 round, triggers automatically in bright light (and only bright light as it turns out after re-reading it), and if the creature succeeds OR fails they can't be affected again.

Also it costs 500 gp (or 750 gp for magic armor), adds 5 pounds to the weight of the armor, and reduces stealth checks in bright or normal light by 10.

doc the grey wrote:

The thing sounds much closer to the spiral rapier or like a few sickles soldered together end to end...

This is probably the best way to describe the Irriseni sickle-sword (and is, in fact, why it's called that). Make sure to stick a handle in there somewhere, so you can twist it without losing fingers. ^_^

So the sickle sword isn't based on any specific weapon in particular then?

Weapons and armor, armor and weapons.

Seriously who would use a gnome ladder as a weapon?

Weapons and armor, armor and weapons.

Seriously who would use a gnome ladder as a weapon?

A Gnome?

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Weapons and armor, armor and weapons.

Seriously who would use a gnome ladder as a weapon?

A Gnome?

Jackie Chan?

Gnome jackie chan?

I feel like gnome Jackie Chan probably invented the ripsaw glaive after being attacked while trimming hedges.

I apologize. How can I delete it?

You barely missed the 1 hour edit window. I've removed the post at your request.

Shaventalz,

It's entirely possible. I still think gnome Jackie Chan also invented the war ladder just for the lolz.

Shaventalz,

It's entirely possible. I still think gnome Jackie Chan also invented the war ladder just for the lolz.

For real though, those Ladder Tricks are actually great.

Dazzled is always lackluster. There are a lot of cool ways to apply it, such as spear dancer, mirror tricks, and so on, but a -1 to attacks just isn't worth it.

If Dazzled > Blind scaled more like Sickened > Nauseated or Shaken > Frightened, the Dazzled condition should probably have been -2 to hit and 20% miss chance (as if all foes have partial concealment).

But that ship sailed long ago.

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Shaventalz,

It's entirely possible. I still think gnome Jackie Chan also invented the war ladder just for the lolz.

For real though, those Ladder Tricks are actually great.

Thanks!

Imbicatus wrote:

Dazzled is always lackluster. There are a lot of cool ways to apply it, such as spear dancer, mirror tricks, and so on, but a -1 to attacks just isn't worth it.

If Dazzled > Blind scaled more like Sickened > Nauseated or Shaken > Frightened, the Dazzled condition should probably have been -2 to hit and 20% miss chance (as if all foes have partial concealment).

But that ship sailed long ago.

Sickened does NOT stack to Nauseated, I'm not sure why people think it does. Only fear effects stack, and not all of them.

Sickened only stacks to nausea if the ability that causes sickened says it does.

Am I missing something?
The inside back cover lists "Nalinivati's kiss" under alchemical tools, but I can't find a description of it anywhere inside.

Sickened does NOT stack to Nauseated, I'm not sure why people think it does. Only fear effects stack, and not all of them.

As yourself pointed out, shaken doesn't even always stack to frightened, so I'm not sure why 'people' would think I said it did, or that sickened progressed to nauseated, which I also didn't say.

One is simply a more common 'lesser' version of the other, just like dazzled is a lesser condition than blind, but dazzling someone twice doesn't blind them and staggering someone twice doesn't necessarily stun them, even if staggered sometimes is used as a lesser result to a stun effect.

As yourself pointed out, shaken doesn't even always stack to frightened, so I'm not sure why 'people' would think I said it did, or that sickened progressed to nauseated, which I also didn't say.

Fear

Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. In most cases, the character makes a Will saving throw to resist this effect, and a failed roll means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.
-
Shaken: Characters who are shaken take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
-
Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can. They can choose the paths of their flight. Other than that stipulation, once they are out of sight (or hearing) of the source of their fear, they can act as they want. If the duration of their fear continues, however, characters can be forced to flee if the source of their fear presents itself again. Characters unable to flee can fight (though they are still shaken).
-
Panicked: Characters who are panicked are shaken, and they run away from the source of their fear as quickly as they can, dropping whatever they are holding. Other than running away from the source, their paths are random. They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers. Once they are out of sight (or hearing) of any source of danger, they can act as they want. Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing.
-
Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

And then Paizo basically went out of their way to say that most Player Options outside of spells DO NOT actually allow you to escalate the level of Fear.

Intimidate:

Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

Am I missing something?

The inside back cover lists "Nalinivati's kiss" under alchemical tools, but I can't find a description of it anywhere inside.

Huh, that's a good catch, since it seems to just not exist at all in the book. And I don't know of any alchemical items with "Kiss" in the name apart from some poisons, which would have been listed in a separate location.

Must have gotten cut. ^_^

I don't have the book with me at the moment, but what happens if I try to create a mithril double plated chain shirt?

My personal, unofficial inclination would be to apply modifications' drawbacks after special materials. (One of them, slumbering, already officially does so; it could be taken as a precedent for adjudicating the others.)

In the absence of an official ruling, however, discuss the matter with your GM. ^_^

K can someone explain the appeal of the Varisian Dancing Scarves for any character that isn't a dedicated spellcaster? As it stands, they seem like something that's pretty worthless mechanically for most builds with a martial bent while simultaneously op for any fullcaster who can't wear armor.

Does anyone see something that works here that I'm just not seeing, or are these really just something for the Sorcerer that GMs are likely not going to be liking here in about 2 months?

Doc,

I could see it working for some inquisitors and vigilantes. I mean especially if you want to do Ragman for Vigilante...

I think the Varisian Dancing Scarves would be fun for a Kapenia Dancer Magus.

I think the Varisian Dancing Scarves would be fun for a Kapenia Dancer Magus.

Fun, but not terribly practical. The problem is that you have to move at least 10 feet to gain any protection from the dancing scarves -- which will provoke opportunity attacks if you are in melee and do not have reach. This archetype has an arcana that lets you spend an arcane pool point for reach, but you will quickly run out of points if you use that arcana too much.

Hmmm... I'm reading polar opposed reviews for this booklet...

I'm a little disappointed that so many of the clothing spells aren't on the Witch list, they, plus poppet familiars, would seem thematically very flavourful for a Tatterdemalion.

So, can the Battle Ladder be the ladder for the Ladder equipment tricks?

Edit: cleaned up wording.

The dancing scarves are good with outslug style, but not until seventh or 8th level when outslug sprint comes online. Even then, you need an extraordinary dex score to make it worthwhile.

So, can the Battle Ladder be the ladder for the Ladder equipment tricks?

Edit: cleaned up wording.

Considering that the description calls it out as a ladder, I would say it seems reasonable.

Yeah I'd figure the battle ladder could be used for equipment tricks.

Are the dancing scarves useful for Monks ?

Are the dancing scarves useful for Monks ?

No they still count as light armor.

Hmmm... I'm reading polar opposed reviews for this booklet...

People have different tastes, standards, and preferences. For me, it was a combination of this one containing next to nothing that I found interesting and useful. It was also a little more disappointing because Armory 1 seems such a stark contrast to Armory 2.

Other folks might enjoy it, want to support the contributers no matter what, or find that this book align better with their preferences for how to play.

I find this book also begins to touch on some rather terrible potential precedence.

Now that we have a "authorized" Masterwork Item list, it could be seen that, especially in things like PFS, we know exactly what skills can benefit from an item and what exact items can be purchased. <Granted, PFS already has a guideline on this, but this is the sort of thing that might change that, and even make it confusing>

A lot of people detest Teamwork Feats, namely because they are even more restrictive than a normal Feat, (generally requiring multiple people to have the same Feat and be in the right circumstances for it to work), AND then because most of them are either actually weaker than a normal Feat, or start to boarder on things you should just be able to do without a specific feat.

In my opinion, this is sort of the same mentality behind the Armor/Weapon Modifications. You have to pay for them, and also suffer a drawback, AND also take Feats? That's just too much, and again, in my opinion, essentially makes a good portion of the book outright pointless.

We get a lot more things like Item Tricks, which once again, similar to the Team Work Feats, a lot of folks just wish would go away and never return. Granted, there are those that like them, and there is nothing wrong with that, but well, that's most of the book right there.

There are a few spells I would probably never use, and sort of feel like they should have been in other books, and honestly, might have just gotten cut and needed stuffed in. We have a few mundane items, but a good portion of those are reprints, some even from Armory 1, some stuff very few Classes can use, a chapter about Improvised weapons/equipment, and then Poppets. The art didn't stand out, although, the last picture looking like Orco was kind of cool.

Pretty much the one stand out for this book, for me, and it also seems for a lot of the other folks that reviewed it was the Equipement Packages. Think "kits", but costs your trait in order to have basically everything bought as a single whole package for all of your starting monies. You do get a handful of monies afterwards, and generally you would walk away with the majority of the stuff you want, and couldn't normally afford at start. But, it also sort of locks you into some stuff you might not want. Good idea, could have used more thought, and much more about swapping things out. It reminds me a lot of how 5E handles starting gear.

Gisher wrote:

I think the Varisian Dancing Scarves would be fun for a Kapenia Dancer Magus.

Fun, but not terribly practical. The problem is that you have to move at least 10 feet to gain any protection from the dancing scarves -- which will provoke opportunity attacks if you are in melee and do not have reach. This archetype has an arcana that lets you spend an arcane pool point for reach, but you will quickly run out of points if you use that arcana too much.

Yeah, and that's my problem with them. Combine that with the difficulty of moving more the 10ft and trying to full attack and these feel like something that even the most flavorful version of the Varisian fighter is likely to avoid.

Conversely, they are like THE PERFECT armor for any full caster you can think of. +2 armor bonus with no max Dex AC penalty or spell failure. It's basically all you can ask for for any wizard that throws spells no longer than a standard action since he's basically got a free AC pump any time. Sure, mage armor is better but he can sleep in these and since it has no downsides you can just wear em' all the time and get the buff when the spell wears off or before you get a chance to cast it. And since you can buff it up with all the other armor bonuses you can just buy all your favorite armor mods you couldn't put on them before. Like, I seriously don't get who this is for.

Hmmm... I'm reading polar opposed reviews for this booklet...

There's a lot of fun stuff in here but as mentioned above YMMV. The mods system is and the options are pretty cool as are the feats, but they suffer from steep pricing that is unnecessary when looked at in tandem with the drawbacks built into the system presented in the book. Bleed 3 potential is really cool but I don't know if it's 2 grand cool and that's one of the better ones.

The pile of reprints from the old dwarves and gnomes book is nice but it feels odd and kind of like stuff that people either aren't that interested in or moved on from for the most part. That said, having the Ripsaw Glaive reprinted again is great and hopefully we'll see more of them soon.

The new alchemical items like the concoctions are awesome and the randomness table is cool as hell and definitely something I want more of alongside the Tincture Tonic (think that's the right name) which might be one of the best grenades in the game atm. But, there are a lot of old reprints that are either forgettable or were in desperate need of some rebalancing that didn't happen and turn them into a waste of paper like the Troll Stypic. I loved that stuff in Kingmaker but its pricing makes it something that will never end up in anyone's inventory unless it is picked up as loot or the PCs end up in some sort of very selective circumstance.

The whole price overnerfing certain options when they already have specialized restrictions thing is kind of a repeating problem throughout this book. About the only items that seem to walk out okay are the concoctions, which are pretty solid for the price you're paying, well drawn, and have a cool side effect system.

But, it's not bad. It's like $10 okay.

Conversely, they are like THE PERFECT armor for any full caster you can think of. +2 armor bonus with no max Dex AC penalty or spell failure. It's basically all you can ask for for any wizard that throws spells no longer than a standard action since he's basically got a free AC pump any time. Sure, mage armor is better but he can sleep in these and since it has no downsides you can just wear em' all the time and get the buff when the spell wears off or before you get a chance to cast it. And since you can buff it up with all the other armor bonuses you can just buy all your favorite armor mods you couldn't put on them before. Like, I seriously don't get who this is for.

Both Haramaki and Silken Ceremonial armor already exist. You can sleep in those, throw enhancements on them, AND it works if you're still prone because the fighter you left on lookout failed his Perception check.

It's just too bad that there aren't images in the book for all of the new weapons. Some of them sound very interesting, but I'd like to see what they actually look like as opposed to just a description.

OK. Maybe someone clarified this and I missed it, but I scanned all the posts and didn't see this.

Does Versatile Design ADD a weapon group to a weapon or CHANGE the group the weapon falls into?

Also, wouldn't a warpriest taking Modified Weapon Proficiency instead of the bonus Weapon Focus feat fail to qualify for several class features until they finally took Weapon Focus?? A kensai just limits himself severely on which feats he qualifies for, but a warpriest cripples himself with this choice!

OK. Maybe someone clarified this and I missed it, but I scanned all the posts and didn't see this.

Does Versatile Design ADD a weapon group to a weapon or CHANGE the group the weapon falls into?

Also, wouldn't a warpriest taking Modified Weapon Proficiency instead of the bonus Weapon Focus feat fail to qualify for several class features until they finally took Weapon Focus?? A kensai just limits himself severely on which feats he qualifies for, but a warpriest cripples himself with this choice!

I'd say it counts as both.

No, Sacred Weapon still applies to their Deity's Favored Weapon even if they don't have Weapon Focus for it.

At 1st level, weapons wielded by a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat

What she said. ^_^

You have to pay for them, and also suffer a drawback, AND also take Feats? That's just too much, and again, in my opinion, essentially makes a good portion of the book outright pointless.

This isn't really correct. You either suffer the drawbacks or take the feats, not both. The armor modifications give you drawbacks - the feat negates the drawbacks. The weapon modifications don't apply any drawbacks other than the proficiency thing, which might or might not actually even affect you.

I still see that as a pretty hefty cost for what they do. It seems like the overall intent was to keep them restricted without outright restricted to some classes.

In the end of the day you do have to pay for them and suffer drawbacks, and also take a Feat, (which removes the drawbacks/proficiency).

It's no more hefty than spending a Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

It's no more hefty than spending a Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

...except how many exotic weapons cost an extra 1k gold for a damage die increase (razor-sharp)?

On the armor side of things, you can generally do better than +1 AC when getting heavier armor (double-plated), and you're paying 1k for the substandard armor. Alternatively, you're paying 1k, 20 lbs, +2 Dex, AND the proficiency feat in exchange for Armor Focus.

2k is a pittance if we're talking about upgrading weapons.

And for Armors, you can take both the profiency Feat and Armor Focus.