Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of the First World (PFRPG)

The new eidolon evolutions (Shared Evolution, Shared Slot, and Extra Feat) are REALLY good. Shared Evolution lets the eidolon temporarily transfer one its evolutions to its master. The other two are exactly what you would expect from their names.

The new eidolon evolutions (Shared Evolution, Shared Slot, and Extra Feat) are REALLY good. Shared Evolution lets the eidolon temporarily transfer one its evolutions to its master. The other two are exactly what you would expect from their names.

Worth mentioning that they're archetype/subtype-locked, and are taking the place of all the evolutions that work for specific subtypes. Nice to see that considered!

The Shapechanger sorcerer bloodline's ability to extend time in an altered form comes from a bloodline power rather than its arcana, so it is available to other spellcasting classes via VMC or the Eldritch Heritage feat chain. Also, it applies to any Transmutation spell, so you could eventually use it to give yourself an all day +4 enhancement bonus to any ability score that you have the appropriate spell for.

My future Spirit Dancer Medium could have a lot of fun with this one.

Are both Miserable Pity and Crushing Despair on the bonus spells of the Sorrow discipline?

No and yes.

First off, I'm super excited for the new Slayer archetype, it's great to see something that is both very strong and very flavorful. I'm curious to know if the writer played Horde in Warcraft 3, haha.

On a more topical note, I'd like to know if there is anything that allows you to use charisma for atypical purposes other than the already mentioned Witch archetype?

First off, I'm super excited for the new Slayer archetype, it's great to see something that is both very strong and very flavorful. I'm curious to know if the writer played Horde in Warcraft 3, haha.

On a more topical note, I'd like to know if there is anything that allows you to use charisma for atypical purposes other than the already mentioned Witch archetype?

The Nornkith Monk archetype is charisma based instead of wisdom based.

Nornkith Monk archetype, I must of missed that one, looks like I will have to take a second look.

Mikko Kallio wrote:

I'm glad to see people like some of the stuff I designed for this one, such as the twinned summoner and the sorrow discipline. ^_^ Can't wait to get my contributor copy!

The twinned summoner gave me a great idea for a character. Outflank. Paired opportunist, improved out flank, broken winged gambit...

And have combat reflexes, two weapon fighting, and exotic weapons profile cycle, wakizashis. 18-20 critical range soon to be 15-20 with keen. Two AOO with every critical and two AOO if attacked... plus my AOO get a +8 bonus due to flanking and paired opportunist...

Sounds like an awesome build. :) Melee-focused summoners are a lot of fun.

Brew Bird wrote:

Could I get a little more info on the new sorcerer bloodline? What makes it such a great shapeshifter?

** spoiler omitted **

I also designed the shapeshifter bloodlines, so I'm very glad to hear you like the sorcerer bloodline. :)

First off, I'm super excited for the new Slayer archetype, it's great to see something that is both very strong and very flavorful. I'm curious to know if the writer played Horde in Warcraft 3, haha.

On a more topical note, I'd like to know if there is anything that allows you to use charisma for atypical purposes other than the already mentioned Witch archetype?

There's also a pretty cool trait that lets you use Charisma for one of a few skills in place of the usual ability score, mostly Intelligence or Dexterity, with some neat flavor of being able to hear the voices of objects.

... id be all in for a wizard archtype that didnt..... blow.

was hoping the chronomancer was going to be it, but from the sounds of it, its going to blow chunks too.

Could someone outline the fey mutagen? I'm going to buy the PDF as soon as I can, but the 31st is sadly far away.

Could someone with the PDF outline the Feykiller Hunter?

I am excited, but also worried it gets dumb things like Favored Enemy.

Favored Enemy is awesome!

That being said the Feykiller gets alternate Animal Foci and eventually their Animal Companion's natural attacks overcome Cold Iron DR.

Could someone outline the fey mutagen? I'm going to buy the PDF as soon as I can, but the 31st is sadly far away.

It improves Dex and Cha, grants DR, and penalizes Str.

Garlicmaster wrote:

Could someone outline the fey mutagen? I'm going to buy the PDF as soon as I can, but the 31st is sadly far away.

It improves Dex and Cha, grants DR, and penalizes Str.

Huh, interesting. Thanks! :)

Yeah, I like the fey mutagen, you can finally have a "nutty professor" type character.

Yeah, I like the fey mutagen, you can finally have a "nutty professor" type character.

Did they put in the craft DC for alchemist's rubber?

I was thinking of the Jerry Lewis movie of the same name.

Any feedback on what the dwarven alternative racial trait, "Wanderer," provides in lieu of "Hardy?"

Very interested in that alternative racial trait.

If feedback on the others could be provided, too, such would be greatly appreciated!

Standout stuff:

• Sorrow Psychic Discipline
• Gathlain Kineticist FCB (LOL)
• First World Minstrel Bard archetype, especially the Echoes of the First World bardic performance (move action teleports and/or spell resistance are the key take aways)
• Chronomancer wizard archetype (it's fun, not overpowered)
• The temporal spells
• Ankou's Shadow slayer archetype
• Seducer Witch archetype
• Conduit Casting teamwork feat (I'm not sure it works in practice, but in theory it's cool)
• Threefold Form (horrible spell, hilarious focus cost of 9x9x9 gp)
• Rod of the Thriceborn (probably a cheaper and just as good version of a Persistent Spell rod given some assumptions about successful saving throw range, I enjoy the idea of the math required to figure it out)

Question to whomever designed/developed the Nornkith Monk:

1. I simultaneously love and hate this because it's not for UC Monks. If it were, it'd be nearly damn close to my ideal archetype.

2. Was it intended NOT to work with UC Monk, because of its mechanics, or was it a matter of space? As far as I can tell, it seems like it could have been easily adapted (diamond soul, quivering palm and empty body just become replaced by ki powers at 12th/16th/18th levels). So was it a power-level or an editing choice? Or did it just not come up?

3. I actually don't know Paizo's stance on this... any chance we could see this reprinted with an UC Monk option?

I was the freelancer who wrote the nornkith archetype, so the development leads of the book are the final arbiters on the project, not me. I intentionally gave it a high power level, as I felt that allowed for some seriously powerful abilities from the norn that felt more like becoming a norn. As such, I realized it was going to be overtuned for an Unchained monk archetype. I looked at the version in my toolbox that worked for both monks and this one just seemed cooler. Like many of the very strong CRB-monk archetypes, it should hold its own with an Unchained monk just in a different way (Unchained monk can put out more damage but nornkith can do some nice reroll and utility powers).

Question to whomever designed/developed the Nornkith Monk:

1. I simultaneously love and hate this because it's not for UC Monks. If it were, it'd be nearly damn close to my ideal archetype.

2. Was it intended NOT to work with UC Monk, because of its mechanics, or was it a matter of space? As far as I can tell, it seems like it could have been easily adapted (diamond soul, quivering palm and empty body just become replaced by ki powers at 12th/16th/18th levels). So was it a power-level or an editing choice? Or did it just not come up?

3. I actually don't know Paizo's stance on this... any chance we could see this reprinted with an UC Monk option?

Mark already mentioned it's something that he had in mind in design, and I had it in mind in development. The mismatch of level powers meant too many words to adequately explain a dual-monk archetype here (and what seems like not many words might still result in getting another cool bit cut, alas!), so the unchained option didn't make the cut. I don't know that a reprint is likely, but I've learned to never say never (see, e.g., the Adventurer's Guide). For a non-organized play option, though, the swaps you suggest seem just fine to me.

I also note that the 11th-level power should replace diamond body (which monks get at 11th level) rather than diamond soul (which they don't get until 13th level). Blame where blame is due: that's my error, not Mark's.

I was the freelancer who wrote the nornkith archetype, so the development leads of the book are the final arbiters on the project, not me. I intentionally gave it a high power level, as I felt that allowed for some seriously powerful abilities from the norn that felt more like becoming a norn. As such, I realized it was going to be overtuned for an Unchained monk archetype. I looked at the version in my toolbox that worked for both monks and this one just seemed cooler. Like many of the very strong CRB-monk archetypes, it should hold its own with an Unchained monk just in a different way (Unchained monk can put out more damage but nornkith can do some nice reroll and utility powers).

I fully agree on the power budget thing, thanks for letting me know <3

One more question about the Seducer. Well, okay, two.

1) Do they still get a familiar?

2) Since their spellcasting is controlled by Charisma, do they have the more limited 'spells known' list of casters like the sorcerer and bard, or do they still get the spells per day/spells known of the base witch class?

One more question about the Seducer. Well, okay, two.

1) Do they still get a familiar?

2) Since their spellcasting is controlled by Charisma, do they have the more limited 'spells known' list of casters like the sorcerer and bard, or do they still get the spells per day/spells known of the base witch class?

1) Familiar is not affected.

2) Sadly, they do not become spontaneous casters, so their spells/day is not affected...and they certainly don't go down from being a 9th-level spellcaster to being a 6th-level spellcaster.

Trying to wrap my head around the Shadow Scion rogue rules.

So basically targeting the Shadow Step ability works like a splash weapon except you always automatically miss and have to determine where you end up?

Also, it looks like it's designed to be specifically different from the Shadowdancer's Shadow Jump ability; presumably this means that it's also incompatible with the whole Dimensional Agility chain.

A slightly technical question around the Rod of the Thriceborn - How would this work if the person you target has reroll abilities?

Example: BBEG is an Enchantress with high DCs and a Rod of the Thriceborn. She uses it to cast Dominate Person on the Inquisitor (Spellbreaker), who always rolls twice and takes the higher against Mind Affecting things.

Do the two powers just cancel out? Or what happens?

(Loving the companion, by the way - so very much stuff I am still processing).

A slightly technical question around the Rod of the Thriceborn - How would this work if the person you target has reroll abilities?

Example: BBEG is an Enchantress with high DCs and a Rod of the Thriceborn. She uses it to cast Dominate Person on the Inquisitor (Spellbreaker), who always rolls twice and takes the higher against Mind Affecting things.

Do the two powers just cancel out? Or what happens?

(Loving the companion, by the way - so very much stuff I am still processing).

I think they should cancel out, as with the Threefold Sight spell. Use of the rod expended, roll one die normally.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

One more question about the Seducer. Well, okay, two.

1) Do they still get a familiar?

2) Since their spellcasting is controlled by Charisma, do they have the more limited 'spells known' list of casters like the sorcerer and bard, or do they still get the spells per day/spells known of the base witch class?

1) Familiar is not affected.

2) Sadly, they do not become spontaneous casters, so their spells/day is not affected...and they certainly don't go down from being a 9th-level spellcaster to being a 6th-level spellcaster.

Thank you, Luthorne, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

In spite of having the iconic druid on the front page, this book doesn't seem to contain a lot of options for druid beyond a few spells and general caster feats. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have only looked through a friends copy before a play session.

I'm glad to see people like some of the stuff I designed for this one, such as the twinned summoner and the sorrow discipline. ^_^ Can't wait to get my contributor copy!

To put it honestly, I think this the best Summoner archetype I have seen.

I have a question about the Hooded Knight's feytouched mount ability. Unless I am missing something, the Cavalier bestows a template to their mount while riding it, but the mount "cannot use its change shape ability while ridden." This mention of the words "while ridden" seemed a bit superfluous, as the mount only has the template under those circumstances. That got me thinking, though: was the mount originally intended to have access to the template at all times?

In "Legacy of the First World", the spell "Threefold Form" is listed as a spell from the school of Divination. However, the text says that it functions as "Bilocation" (OA 158), which is from the school of Conjuration. Since the caster is conjuring images of himself/herself, presumably there is a typographical error in "Legacy of the First World" and in fact "Threefold Form" is also from the school of Conjuration. Is this correct?

It might have been intended to function as Divination given Magdh's theme, just with mechanical similarities to Bilocation. Bilocation creates a duplicate body, which sounds like Conjuration. Threefold Form could be viewed as pulling your younger and older selves out of some alternate timeline, which could be Divination, I suppose.

Both are bad spells, though, don't use them. Terrible action economy in return and extra vulnerability for short duration and a high level spell slot in return for some very limited flexibility. No thanks.

So...when will this be included in the Pathfinder Society Additional Resources page?

I'd like to be able to consider converting my Cavalier to the Order of the Blossom.

Review posted!

Another question about the Seducer archetype (now that I actually have the book) -- they can take the Extra Hex feat at 1st level, right? Their being required to take the Charm hex doesn't change that, does it?

I don't see why it would, it's a hex, so I'd say they have the prerequisite of the hex class feature.

Thanks, Plausible. I thought as much myself but I wanted to see what others thought about it.

Mark Seifter wrote:

I was the freelancer who wrote the nornkith archetype, so the development leads of the book are the final arbiters on the project, not me. I intentionally gave it a high power level, as I felt that allowed for some seriously powerful abilities from the norn that felt more like becoming a norn. As such, I realized it was going to be overtuned for an Unchained monk archetype. I looked at the version in my toolbox that worked for both monks and this one just seemed cooler. Like many of the very strong CRB-monk archetypes, it should hold its own with an Unchained monk just in a different way (Unchained monk can put out more damage but nornkith can do some nice reroll and utility powers).

I fully agree on the power budget thing, thanks for letting me know <3

Incidentally, I was getting the nornkith confused with another monk archertype that I wrote that couldn't be Unchained the other day when I posted this, and in looking it up more carefully, I discovered that I had done so (as I said before, I had various versions in my toolbox, and seeing it wasn't for Unchained, I had thought I submitted that version). Ron is correct that he removed the Unchained monk adjustments for space (and it must have seemed weird that I thought I hadn't included them at all), but I realized I had managed to fit them in there (at too high a cost in words). You can use them with Unchained by replacing 4th, 12th, 16th, and 18th level ki powers (and gaining the corresponding abilities at those levels) with my blessing as well; it's a bit strong, especially the reroll, but it steered enough away from pure offense to work on both.

The explanation I gave is still probably my most thorough written explanation to date of why wemight not write a given monk archetype for Unchained monk (and why zen archer, sohei, and friends are troublesome if you port them over), it just didn't apply to the archetype I was actually writing about at the time!

So, does Introspective Performance synergize with the Sorrowsoul's (Ultimate Intrigue) Lyric Sorrow ability?

I'm going through this book and it feels like it doesn't have enough options for players that aren't starting at the ground floor. I'd like to have seen some of the alternate rules like "shaping" that showed up in the First World Campaign Setting book. At the very least, having the named Eldest clearly mentioned in their respective section would have been nice. Instead, it feels like you are expected to play connect the dots to whomever each chapter is dedicated.

A bit torn on this book. It seems like it will be great for players building a fey influenced character at level one, but for someone like me running a fey based campaign with higher level characters, I am struggling to find anything we can use in this book.

I'll have to try to read over the archetypes a bit more before I do a review.