There are things that dwell in the dark places of the world, in long-abandoned crypts or musty attics—terrible things that can destroy your body and shatter your mind. Few individuals would think to seek out such nightmares, but those drawn into the darkness often find it infecting them, corrupting them in ways both subtle and disgusting. Some believe those who die facing such horrors are the lucky ones, for the survivors are forever scarred by their experiences.
Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures gives you everything you need to bring these nightmares to life. Within these pages, you'll find secrets to take your game into the darkest reaches of fantasy, where the dead hunger for the living, alien gods brood in dreams, and madness and death lurk around every corner. Rules for players and GMs alike pit brave champions against a darkness capable of devouring mind, body, and soul. To prepare to face such torments, the heroes can take new feats, learn powerful spells, and even acquire holy relics—for they'll need every edge possible to survive!
Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures includes:
Corruptions that can turn your character into a powerful monster, from a blood-drinking vampire to a savage werewolf. The only cost is your soul!
Character options to help heroes oppose the forces of darkness, including horror-themed archetypes, feats, spells, and more!
A detailed system to represent sanity and madness, giving you all the tools you need to drive characters to the brink and beyond.
Tips and tools for running a genuinely scary game, along with an in-depth look at using horror's many subgenres in a Pathfinder campaign.
Expanded rules for curses, diseases, environments, fleshwarping, haunts, and deadly traps.
New templates to turn monsters into truly terrifying foes, from creatures made of living wax to a stalker that can never be stopped!
... and much, much more!
ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-849-6
Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:
I am in love with this book. The themes for archetypes are spot on and everything goes beyond horror basics, it's much more than vampires, werewolves, and zombies (though they are included). Some of my favorite elements are the Deep One corruption (corruptions in general are sweet, this seems like a well balanced mechanic for horribly warping the PCs into monsters, while still giving them a way to fight it) and the Gingerbread Witch. The Deep One corruption is a great example of the depth of horror this book includes, this plays on a less often used horror theme of the paranoia of harming oneself (in this case, by drowning). This reminds me so much of elements from the book The Boy Who Drew Monsters, and the mom's terrible fascination with people who drowned in a shipwreck a hundred years ago. You could adopt this same corruption for vertigo or even a bodily harm thing. On a lighter side, the Gingerbread Witch made me so, so happy. It's a well thought out archetype, I'm not sure they'd be great as a player character (but there aren't evil restrictions, so have at!) but I can't wait to insert a horrible Gingerbread Witch near some unassuming town, with her creepy haunted gingerbread house and evil delicious familiar.
I just can't say enough good things about the mechanics. They are flexible enough that you don't have to have a horror specific campaign to use elements from this book. The fear and sanity rules can be used with any campaign to add realism or more of a gritty fantasy feel. If your level 1 characters just killed a person for the first time, maybe they should lose some sanity and wrestle with that emotion. If they are in a dank, creepy dungeon with skeletons, maybe some of them would be spooked. The rules for adapting fear resistant characters like Paladins are also nicely balanced and I appreciate that attention to detail - your paladins don't have to yawn at the sideline, they're vulnerable too, just in a way less debilitating way that actually paints them as more of a hero around evil and undead.
Lastly, the warning about needing consent before using this book in a campaign was a very nice touch. That totally hooked me when starting to read this book. I kind of thought I'd just have spooky themed elements, but that paragraph inspired me to try to take this to the next level. How fun would it be to have a session that turns your actual living room into a haunted house, or to be the director of the scariest experience your friends have had all year?
If Halloween is your favorite holiday or you love low, gritty fantasy, I highly recommend this book. I will be reading this one cover to cover and am excited to use its elements for many, many sessions.
This massive hardcover clocks in at 255 pages - if you take away editorial, index, etc., you still arrive at 249 pages of content, which is A LOT.
I was gifted a copy of this book for the purpose of a fair and unbiased review. My review is based on the hardcover of this book.
Now, the first thing I'd ask you to do, is to read the series of Miscellaneous Musings I wrote on horror gaming in general. Or least the last one. Why? Because it is my firm conviction that one has to establish realistic expectations in order to review a book such as this.
(The articles are fully linked on my page.)
Alternatively, if you already own it, there is a sentence in the advice chapter on running horror games that should be taken to heart: "Pathfinder is not designed with horror in mind." I'd like to elaborate on this, at least briefly. As I have established in my long, long rants on the subject matter, it is my firm conviction that you can run horror in PFRPG, even purist horror, but that the base system per se is more conductive towards playing the angle of pitting horror against the angle of heroism, of allowing PCs to have a shot against the darkness. While you can modify PFRPG to play akin to CoC, the game is simply more conductive towards the heroic angle.
It is a testament to PFRPG's versatility that horror of any way works in the first place, in spite of the focus of the game. Now secondly, I'd like to address two aspects of the game and what we can expect, with the first being character options. We are all aware of the vast array of built-options available for PFRPG and thus, it should come as no surprise that yes, we do receive a significant array of player- (or at least character-)centric options. Which would bring me to the first observation: It is my firm convictions that players should stay out of this book.
No, really. You see, quite a lot of the new class options, like the blood alchemist, elder mythos cultist, hexenhammer or medium spirit-variants like the butcher or lich (for champion and archmage, to give two examples) scream "NPC" for me. I know, it is perhaps not what you'd expect me to do, but ultimately, I consider the material here to be mostly intended for the GM. Yes, we have martyr paladins with stigmata and bloody jake slayers and serial killer vigilantes. Yes, some players will want to play these...but from my experience as a horror-GM, it may actually make sense restricting these...or simply not telling the players about the rules. Before you're asking, btw.: From a min-maxing perspective, you'll probably find better options anyways...but if that's a consideration for you when playing in a horror game, I'd strongly suggest thinking about priorities and of what makes for a fun game for everyone - see my long, long posts on the necessary contract/gentlemen's agreement between the GM and player.
That being said, there is one aspect I am holding against this book, in spite of the aforementioned previous considerations, and that would be that there is no dividing line between content obviously designed for players/good guys and that for villains - it does show in the archetype-section and, more than that, in the feat-section, where we can find REALLY cool Story-feats alongside a bunch of feats intended for evil characters or monsters - in the latter case often enhancing universal monster abilities and providing further numerical escalation - which would be less of an issue, if PFRPG didn't have this many options to gain access to precisely these abilities. In short, we are catering to a mindset here that kinda undermines the horror premise the rest of the book is trying hard to set up. In short: We also get a lot of alternate racial traits for the core races, which generally fit with the themes of horror, though the fortification they offer against these challenges don't really fit my personal vision of what I like to play in the context of such a campaign, but your mileage here may obviously vary. These are my least favorite aspects of the book.
But let's move back to the very beginning: The advice given for players when making characters for horror adventures is extremely sound and should most certainly be read carefully - the book spells pretty much out what I did, minus the advice on Achilles heels, but I guess you can't have everything. The notes on making a compelling personality etc. makes sense, and so does the advice of roleplaying fear. I am a big fan of the note that the book emphasizes conspiration and communication with the GM here.
One of my favorite parts herein would be the more diversified take on Fear: We are introduced to a 7-step progression tree of various states of fear, including rules on immunity to fear and how it should be used in conjunction with this system. It works pretty seamlessly, though I honestly wished the already widely in use cowering condition had been implemented here as well - considering the effects of the highest fear-level "horrified", the differences are not that pronounced. And yes, I am aware that this adds a bit of potential complexity to some options, but here at least, I consider the trade off worth it.
Sanity...is a bit more clunky. We get a relatively simple system: Add mental attributes together and you have the sanity score; half of that is the sanity edge. This determines the severity of the madness incurred when something exceeds your sanity threshold - which is equal to the bonus of the highest mental attribute bonus. When you incur a sanity attack and its damage exceeds the threshold, you gain a madness - simple, yes...but it does ultimately reward characters that are SAD on a mental attribute, whereas in my opinion, sanity-shattering effects often are made worse by understanding them properly, perceiving them properly, etc. The system is not bad per se, but it requires managing three scores and for that, it doesn't deliver the results I'm personally looking for in such a system. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but yeah.
The star-subsystem here would be basically PFRPG's take on dark powers-checks, so-called corruptions. These tie in with character flaws of the PC and represent a dark and malevolent stain on the character that slowly mutates them, granting benefits, while at the same time driving them further down the dark path. Where previously, in Ravenloft, you ultimately became a darklord, corruptions now have 3 stages, with the final stage usually turning you NPC. Progression along this path is via a variety of actions and they generally have a catalyst to first spring them on a character. These corruptions also feature tempting powers, so-called manifestations, which also come with a stain, a drawback, that is in relation to the behavior in question.
Now, first things first: At one point, I wrote a pretty long essay on how to tempt both players and PCs at the same time with horrific power and the psychological reasons to do so - while it has been cut and never been published, let me summarize: I argued that a weakness of the monster-transformation aspect championed by Ravenloft was, that on the one hand, the PC should be horrified by what he does, while craving the power in question. Similarly, the player should feel the same.
If there is a disjoint between player and PC, roleplaying suffers. The corruptions, when looking at them, are surprisingly tame - not in their visuals, mind you: The hive, for example, is really icky. Still, it is somewhat surprising to see the heavy penalty of corruption stage 3...and at the same time, the significant array of manifestations each corruption offers. Now, some folks have complained about the risk of being turned NPC being too high (it's a sort of game over, after all), but from a meta-design perspective it can be a motivator for munchkins to take heed.
There is another aspect to the system pretty much every review I read did not pick up on - and I don't get why. In my third essay on horror gaming, I talked about the realities of being a big publisher and not one of the underground one-man operations. I also talked briefly about the witch hunts our hobby is subject to, one that continues in some regions and circles. More than that, moral and aesthetic limitations vary within persons - more so between folks. As the big dog that Paizo is, it is pretty hard to sell "play a monstrously vile thing and the descent into evil" to a part of their demographic - though, in particularly the hardcore horror fans will want exactly that, the teetering on the edge of damnation experience, for from this precipice, the best redemption stories are woven.
Here's the beautiful thing about the corruption system: The increase of manifestations is not tied to the corruption stage progression. At all. You can retain the whole save mechanics, variants and the whole rest and just throw out the three stages. You can introduce as many stages as you'd like (perhaps 7 or 5, as previous editions of the game did - perhaps 13, if you want to go an occult angle...) - the system's validity remains. And yes, I'll confess, my kneejerk response was like that of many out there, to complain and curse about the 3 stages - but know what? This is by far the best and most detailed (and balanced) such system I have seen for a d20-based game. It covers the company and at the same time, easily allows for PCs and NPCs, for GMs and players alike, to enjoy a system I never expected to see in this shape or form from a big publisher. Now personally, I would have actually increased the potency of the corruptions if you're running with the stage-limit and NPC-threat...but, once again, that is if you're planning on playing a relatively tame campaign. The fact that each manifestation has its custom gifts and stains, completely divorced from the stages, means that you retain maximum control when tweaking the system to your needs. The fact that the save to resist progression is tied to compulsive behavior means that even it, as an aspect, remains valid, its tie to further manifestations in the save-calculation providing a roleplaying catalyst even without the presence of the threat of NPCdom.
The chapter on magic provides a wide array of thematically fitting spells that range from the subtle to the in-your-face blunt - sleepwalking suggestions, massive, gory blood effects and cursed terrain generally make sense and even otherwise pretty standard damage spells included herein sport nice visuals: Screaming flames? Yes, I can see that working. I am honestly more in love with the fact that we get a 5 pretty neat occult rituals here that all are amazing in their own way, with each having the potential to act as a proper plot-cornerstone. I wished we got more of them!
Now, I mentioned that I consider this to be a GM-book and indeed, the GM-section is a bit of a treasure trove in some aspects: We get a couple of new curses and advice on making more, as well as notes on cursed lands and items - if the topic interests you: Both Legendary games and Rite Publishing have released whole supplements dealing with curses, often in really creative ways, but that as an aside. Curse templates allow for the customization of curses herein. Now, the disease chapter gets my full-blown applause for disease templates - and e.g. the one named "incurable." It actually does what it says on the tin! (minus the usual wish/miracle-caveat) - this is amazing. I mean it. Diseases have, in pretty much every d20-based system, been afterthoughts, crippled, lame and ultimately were the lame brothers of poison. This changes that. The sample diseases like "brain moss" or "gore worms" also make me tingle and twitch in a good way.
Speaking of things I like: We get a vast number of cool terrain hazards, haunted spots and the like to add to encounters, allowing for quick and easy eerie customizations. Domains of Evil can also be found. You know. Domains. With dread fog. That modify how magic works. With hazards and potentially different flow of time. That are haunted. Yeah, let's stop teh pretense here: If you're like me and a sucker for Ravenloft, then this chapter will have you smile from ear to ear, even before the rules on nightmares and the couple of traps. These, btw., unfortunately are the roll to see and disable kind - particularly in a horror game, team effort, complex traps that require multiple tasks make for the more compelling option, but I digress.
Now, the next section of rules is something that I was looking forward to, since it had been featured, but never codified properly in rules at least not by Paizo (there are a couple of 3pp-forays into that territory)- fleshwarping! And yes, it is cool. It sports a ton of nice effects, but the system is, to a degree, a double-edged sword: On one hand, fleshwarping works really well and on the other, its price is perhaps a bit too high: Let me elaborate: Fleshcrafts can either be permanent grafts or temporary mutations, instilled by an elixir that requires succeeding a Fort-save to gain the benefits. The temporary prices and benefits and being keyed to slots etc. makes sense for the elixirs, but since the effects also sport a penalty, the price for the respective fleshcraft grafts is still pretty high when compared to magic items - baseline for the grafts seems to have been 1/2 of a comparable item's base price to make up for the drawback. Considering the disfiguring nature of these options, that may still be pretty high, though. It depends a bit. Chaotic fleshwarping mutations can also be found - and unlike the chaositech mutations of yore, these generally are detrimental.
The extensive section on haunts that follows includes templates for them (called haunt elements) as well as variants like dimensional instabilities, maddening influence, magical scars and psychic haunts. The array presented ranges from humble Cr 1/4 to CR 20, including classics like being buried alive or the twisted wish. Madnesses are codified in lesser and greater madnesses - big plus here: For once, a supplement does not confuse schizophrenia with dissociated identities. (Seriously, if I had a buck whenever I saw that being confused...)
Now, one of the most useful sections regarding GM-considerations would be the massive chapter that deals with running horror games - which not only classifies and quantifies horror sub.genres, their tropes, etc., but also mentions all the classics like lighting, music, creating an undisturbed environment, etc. - tricks for dealing with various snags, how to encourage horror roleplaying etc. - and it is sad, but obviously necessary that, beyond talking about what does and does not fly with individual players, overdoing it does not work. HOWEVER, I do actually disagree with one aspect - involving outside people. To have an unrelated accomplice like a spouse play with the light on e.g. a stormy evening - not all the time, but once or twice, can be rather effective...but I generally get why these disclaimers are here. This section, obviously, is targeted at less experienced GMs in the genre - and in particular such GMs will also appreciate the section on improvising rules for e.g. being buried alive, crumbling structures, etc.
This book has a lot of systems, mechanics, archetypes, feats, spells, environment challenges, haunts, curses, etc. While most of it is clearly presented and has enough flavor text to give you some ideas on how to use it, everything just seems to fall flat.
My two biggest gripes (I have more than just two):
1) The sanity system is horribly balanced, heavily penalizing martial characters, and it's effects are easily cured by powerful spells. Really poorly executed, why make the gap between martials and casters even worse?
2) Most of the Archetypes are realistically for GM use only, as they are very niche. I wanted to give my players a lot of cool horror themed archetypes to play with, instead they got a scant few.
This book really could have been SO much better. Disappointed.
Paizo reviews come in two forms: players that whine because they wanted something other than what was in the book (^^^)and then gamemasters/players that actually review the material provided. This is a review from the latter.
Paizo has created some of the best horror themed adventures for Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons over the course of their existence. In this book, they round it all up and spell out all of the tricks and tips they use to make it happen.
I have written everything from adventures to comic books to film scripts and I would easily hand this book over to a non-gaming writer that needed advice on how to create horror. This book goes to great lengths to provide players with archetypes for classes to use in horror themed adventures as well as giving gamemasters tools they need to create horror in session after session.
Players get archetypes, feats, spells and new gear with which to battle the horrific forces of the multiverse. GMs get a ton of new tools including a nifty new Bestiary that brings us Pathfinder versions of Alien-style xenomorphs called the Hive AND a nice analogue for the Slender Man called the Unknown. Horror requires more than monsters, so you also get new rules on corruptions, curses, diseases, horrific environments, fleshwarping, haunts, madness and more!
Creating horror is more than giving players more 0's they can add to their attacks. It involves setting, tone, atmosphere and management of expectations. If you want to run a game that makes your players fear for their characters lives, then pick up this book and give it a read. Follow up with the recommended reading and required viewing and you'll get a feeling for how to instill dread in everyone sitting at your table.
This book feels more like Pathfinder's version of the Book of Vile Darkness then horror themed adventures. Also this is a very DM heavy book though I thought it would be 70% player 30% DM but is actually the other way around.
The Good
-I loved the Dread Lord, Hive, Trompe L'Oeil, Unknown, and Waxwork Creature.
-I like the Corruptions.
-I like the reprint/expanding of madness rules.
-I like some of the magic items like mantle of life, monster almanac, and elder sign.
-I liked a few archetypes like the two for witches.
The Bad
-Too many evil archetypes, spells, etc.
-Do not like the sanity rules.
-Do not like the fleshwarping rules for characters.
-Most of archetypes were lacking or unusable for players.
-Very few interesting spells that are player friendly.
-Very few interesting feats.
-Not enough character options related to specific class features like wild talents, bloodlines, rogue talents, oracle curses/mysteries, etc.
I feel this book was a missed opportunity for same great horror based player character options. Such as expanded options for void kineticist like fear effects, controlling/creating undead, etc. new psychic disciplines, sorcerer/bloodrager bloodlines, oracle curses/mysteries, hexes, phantom emotion focuses, etc. I could even see some interesting ideas for rogue talents, rage powers, slayer talents, etc. I would have been fine with reprints like the pestilence sorcerer bloodline, kineticist void element, and other fitting options from past books.
Anyone know anything more about the Undead Master? How does the bone object bond work? Also do you need to be in the necromancy school to take it and/or can you be take one of the necromancy subschools?
Corpse Bond either lets you bond with object but it must be made out of bone (no other change from normal arcane bond) or they can get a corpse companion like the Undead Lord Cleric archetype.
Interestingly enough for the school it actually says most Undead Masters specialize in Necromancy and they can't have it as an opposed school. So you don't even have to take it, you just can't have it opposed. So subschools are definitely okay.
Awesome Someone posted that it changes necromancy spell levels? How's that work?
They have a certain number spells that are automatically added to their Spellbook and can be spontaneously cast by sacrificing another spell, the 4 creating undead line of spells can be cast as one spell level lower.
Rysky, one last question about the Elemental Whispers. What level are those talents? I cannot wait 7 more days to find out!!! Must have Horror books... Now!
Rysky, one last question about the Elemental Whispers. What level are those talents? I cannot wait 7 more days to find out!!! Must have Horror books... Now!
Rysky, one last question about the Elemental Whispers. What level are those talents? I cannot wait 7 more days to find out!!! Must have Horror books... Now!
Hey there all, the archetypes and wild talents for the kineticist are now listed in Mastering the Elements, so if you want more info on them as well as their rating, go check it out!
So N. Jolly. I'd advise increasing the greater elemental whispers to green (or blue if you select wysps)
Essentially, you can get wysps or a utility to give you +1 attack/+1 damage along with +2 attack/+2 damage if you're an elemental race with an elemental(fire, earth, air, water) subtype.
But the +1 attack and +1 damage alone should be worth it, plus wysps combined with the ability to make an elemental as a kineticist, it also buffs the elemental as well by providing +2 dmg and attack.
2) For the Mythos Cultist would this be a reasonable summary?
GAINS
+2 on certain knowledge skills
Ability to cause WIS damage (? per day)
Better at channeling (higher uses and DC) via CHA as casting stat
LOSES
One entire domain
Restricted 2nd domain
Alignment restriction
Worse at Will saves... etc due to CHA as casting stat
Channeling itself is worse as it now only affects 'flesh and blood'
Spontaneous heal/harm
Autofails on confusion, insanity and nightmare
So N. Jolly. I'd advise increasing the greater elemental whispers to green (or blue if you select wysps)
Essentially, you can get wysps or a utility to give you +1 attack/+1 damage along with +2 attack/+2 damage if you're an elemental race with an elemental(fire, earth, air, water) subtype.
But the +1 attack and +1 damage alone should be worth it, plus wysps combined with the ability to make an elemental as a kineticist, it also buffs the elemental as well by providing +2 dmg and attack.
That's worth a blue imo.
Personally, I think it'd be better to discuss that here as to avoid cluttering the thread. I will say that I could see putting it blue, but the versatility of an unrestricted improved familiar is something impressive, so that's why it was admittedly (high) green for me.
The Sanity rules aren't quite what I had hoped for, but are close enough (a point-based system that takes Charisma into account). They're also a little more on the complicated side than I would like. The recovery time and processes on Sanity are downright brutal, so I'll probably change that to something quicker and less tedious for my home game.
Unless i have a player that really wants Corruption or I make the linchpin of a campaign, I'm probably not going to use those rules. They're more complicated than i want to deal with.
Throw in the Wound Threshold rules and I've got much of what I've been missing.
2) For the Mythos Cultist would this be a reasonable summary?
GAINS
+2 on certain knowledge skills
Ability to cause WIS damage (? per day)
Better at channeling (higher uses and DC) via CHA as casting stat
LOSES
One entire domain
Restricted 2nd domain
Alignment restriction
Worse at Will saves... etc due to CHA as casting stat
Channeling itself is worse as it now only affects 'flesh and blood'
Spontaneous heal/harm
Autofails on confusion, insanity and nightmare
Mythos cultist can deal wisdom damage at level 5.
It gets +2 profane to certain skills.
They get a channel that can ONLY harm BUT it can harm ANYTHING that has flesh. *Corporeal undead except skeletons, living creatures, flesh golems etc* So when you decide to harm everyone in an area, you can deal damage to both undead and living creatures. So I wouldn't classify it as 'worse'. It can't heal, but it's better than negative energy as long as you're not owning an undead army.
They have only one domain. No 2nd domain.
Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil
Their charisma APPLIES to their will saves except against mind effecting effects, they get a -2 AND they auto fail confusion, insanity and nightmare.
They lose spontaneous casting.
So all in all you're very close.
The one thing you didn't realize is they apply charisma to will saves and lose spontaneous casting.
Their charisma APPLIES to their will saves except against mind effecting effects
Yep; they're kind of like derro in that they built themselves a new will out of pure madness! It actually works for all Will saves, even mind-affecting, you just get some other drawbacks to those (which is still better for a Cha caster than using Wis).
I actually just made a character for a game. Chaotic neutral elder mythos cleric that is focused on madness domain. Lvl 1. Selective channeling and channeling variant feat which focuses on madness. At lvl 3, I will take the channeling variant feat again so that all my channels deal half damage, but I confuse my enemies.
They get a channel that can ONLY harm BUT it can harm ANYTHING that has flesh. *Corporeal undead except skeletons, living creatures, flesh golems etc* So when you decide to harm everyone in an area, you can deal damage to both undead and living creatures. So I wouldn't classify it as 'worse'. It can't heal, but it's better than negative energy as long as you're not owning an undead army.
They have only one domain. No 2nd domain.
Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil
Their charisma APPLIES to their will saves except against mind effecting effects, they get a -2 AND they auto fail confusion, insanity and nightmare.
They lose spontaneous casting.
So all in all you're very close.
The one thing you didn't realize is they apply charisma to will saves and lose spontaneous casting.
Cheers for the info
Hmmm.... bit of a let down IMO, a real missed opportunity...oh well! Leaving aside other probs, mind affecting effects do make up a big chunk of Will based saves!
What is the other cleric archetype about?
What do you reckon to the book overall? Am still waiting to get my hands on the hardback here in the UK! :((
They get a channel that can ONLY harm BUT it can harm ANYTHING that has flesh. *Corporeal undead except skeletons, living creatures, flesh golems etc* So when you decide to harm everyone in an area, you can deal damage to both undead and living creatures. So I wouldn't classify it as 'worse'. It can't heal, but it's better than negative energy as long as you're not owning an undead army.
They have only one domain. No 2nd domain.
Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil
Their charisma APPLIES to their will saves except against mind effecting effects, they get a -2 AND they auto fail confusion, insanity and nightmare.
They lose spontaneous casting.
So all in all you're very close.
The one thing you didn't realize is they apply charisma to will saves and lose spontaneous casting.
Cheers for the info
Hmmm.... bit of a let down IMO, a real missed opportunity...oh well! Leaving aside other probs, mind affecting effects do make up a big chunk of Will based saves!
What is the other cleric archetype about?
What do you reckon to the book overall? Am still waiting to get my hands on the hardback here in the UK! :((
Ps I hear the Cult Hunter is pretty funky!
Clerics only get one archetype. I will say, you might think it's a letdown, but it looks super fun flavor wise. Even if it's a slight downgrade in power.. the ability to have stronger channels, having less MAD and more SAD (dont need wisdom), makes the archetype worth it for those who want a DPS or crowd control based class (depending on how you make him)
Clerics only get one archetype. I will say, you might think it's a letdown, but it looks super fun flavor wise. Even if it's a slight downgrade in power.. the ability to have stronger channels, having less MAD and more SAD (dont need wisdom), makes the archetype worth it for those who want a DPS or crowd control based class (depending on how you make him)
Only one archetype? I thought everyone was supposed to get 2?
We'll have to disagree on this one I fear... its quite a significant downgrade IMO
The problem with the channeling "boost".... is that channeling is a pretty dire ability in the first place, even with CHA as casting stat!
At 20th level with variant channeling this guy will be dealing on average 15.5 hp damage and possibly causing confusion for 1 round....hmmmmm scary stuff! One for the NPC only pile I think.....
We have a saying where I come from in England...."You cant polish a &^%$."
Oh well....moving on - is the Gingerbread Witch as fun as it sounds? And I gather we have an INT based Inquisitor?
Just one further question about Death Druid: do they have to be evil or can they be any alignment?
Death druids are not necessarily evil. They have no alignment restrictions (other than needing to still be neutral in some aspect) and part of the description says they are continuously trying to find ways to bring their phantom to the afterlife.
Hope that gives you a gist of what they are all about.
Clerics only get one archetype. I will say, you might think it's a letdown, but it looks super fun flavor wise. Even if it's a slight downgrade in power.. the ability to have stronger channels, having less MAD and more SAD (dont need wisdom), makes the archetype worth it for those who want a DPS or crowd control based class (depending on how you make him)
Only one archetype? I thought everyone was supposed to get 2?
We'll have to disagree on this one I fear... its quite a significant downgrade IMO
The problem with the channeling "boost".... is that channeling is a pretty dire ability in the first place, even with CHA as casting stat!
At 20th level with variant channeling this guy will be dealing on average 15.5 hp damage and possibly causing confusion for 1 round....hmmmmm scary stuff! One for the NPC only pile I think.....
We have a saying where I come from in England...."You cant polish a &^%$."
Oh well....moving on - is the Gingerbread Witch as fun as it sounds? And I gather we have an INT based Inquisitor?
Gingerbread witch is surprisingly not restricted to evil. You can even be good aligned and they get the cook people hex at level 10!
They can create confections and candies and pass them out to the party as well as create goodberries which have certain effects.
I just wanted to make sure I could make a phantom that a druid would have an a kind of animal companion that's not undead but still not alive either. Not an automaton/golem/construct either.
What does the elder mythos scholar archetype get/lose?
They get arcane bond
Two uses less of his arcane school ability. If he does not have this ability, he cannot take the archetype.
When confusion, fear, insanity or madness is cast on him, he can use his int modifier rather than wis for his will save.
However he experiences a nightmare the next time he sleeps.
This replaces 1st level arcane school ability.
He gets a +2 increased caster level check and a +1 DC with all spells against specific abberation types. They are listed.
He loses scribe scroll, 5th and 10th level bonus feats.
At 8th level they get an ability similar to a mutagen with other effects as well. It replaces the 8th level school ability
Sounds kind of weak. No? Any redeeming qualities?
When against those specific abberations *it's a huge list* they are quite strong, since ALL spells get +2 casting level and +1 dc.. Which is pretty nice. Plus, they get better resistance against confusion, fear, insanity and madness.
If you're looking for an arcane school wizard, this guy, I think, is an upgrade if you're against those abberations or a slight downgrade if you aren't.
They are focused on fighting off the old Gods and that's what those specific creatures are servants of.
It's actually a pair of templates: the Dread Lord template and the more powerful (but imprisoned in its realm) Cursed Lord. As you'd expect, these creatures are deeply and intrinsically tied to a parcel of land that makes up their domain (which grows in size as their HD increases). I won't give the full run-down here, but they get some tasty defensive abilities, significant attribute boosts, and a fear aura while in their lands, and little goes on within the domain that they don't know about, whether through various speak with _____ spells or through other magical divinations they are gifted with. Their power and malign influence extends to the animals, plants, and even weather within their lands, and they can haunt the dreams of trespassers within their realm and possibly dominate them. Dread Lords can leave their lands at the cost of all that power (they lose all benefit when out of their realm), while Cursed Lords are trapped within their realm, unable to die and unable to leave by any means unless very specific conditions are fulfilled to alleviate the curse.
My favorite part of the templates, however, is the One with the Land ability, which allows the Lords to customize their domain to suite their individual natures by seeding them with a host of environmental effects and supernatural hazards you can choose from any source, including all the creepy and dangerous new threats found in the Environment chapter (it's 12 pages of godless voids, zombie-animating fogs, haunted battlfields, and sentient bloodthirsty forests!). Furthermore, the Environment chapter contains an entry for Domains of Evil, which morphs the land in other ways depending on the power of its lord, so that just as creatures taking the template change to reflect their lands, so, too, does the land change to reflect their corrupt master. This symbiosis between rules mechanics makes the template incredibly flavorful and thematic, with tons of options to get a lot of mileage out of those pages. And, yes, there's a dread fog supernatural hazard that will be eerily familiar to some folks.
When against those specific abberations *it's a huge list* they are quite strong, since ALL spells get +2 casting level and +1 dc.. Which is pretty nice. Plus, they get better resistance against confusion, fear, insanity and madness.
If you're looking for an arcane school wizard, this guy, I think, is an upgrade if you're against those abberations or a slight downgrade if you aren't.
They are focused on fighting off the old Gods and that's what those specific creatures are servants of.
I guess it depends on how you value a +1 DC on all spells targeting specific enemies vs. an equivalent spell focus that works on all enemies, but only with your chosen spell school. I think spell focus is going to be better. And the +2 CL is up against Spell Penetration. Are an extra two rounds of debuff against aberrations worth more than +2 to SR penetration against all enemies? It's hard to say that they are. Yet they give up three feats (including Scribe Scroll) for these two abilities that are only very situationally better than equivalent feats. I don't think that's a great trade off.
That doesn't make this a bad archetype, though, it makes it a pretty typical Paizo archetype. They usually give marginal benefits in a highly specialized field at the cost of big general power and flexibility.
When against those specific abberations *it's a huge list* they are quite strong, since ALL spells get +2 casting level and +1 dc.. Which is pretty nice. Plus, they get better resistance against confusion, fear, insanity and madness.
If you're looking for an arcane school wizard, this guy, I think, is an upgrade if you're against those abberations or a slight downgrade if you aren't.
They are focused on fighting off the old Gods and that's what those specific creatures are servants of.
I guess it depends on how you value a +1 DC on all spells targeting specific enemies vs. an equivalent spell focus that works on all enemies, but only with your chosen spell school. I think spell focus is going to be better. And the +2 CL is up against Spell Penetration. Are an extra two rounds of debuff against aberrations worth more than +2 to SR penetration against all enemies? It's hard to say that they are. Yet they give up three feats (including Scribe Scroll) for these two abilities that are only very situationally better than equivalent feats. I don't think that's a great trade off.
That doesn't make this a bad archetype, though, it makes it a pretty typical Paizo archetype. They usually give marginal benefits in a highly specialized field at the cost of big general power and flexibility.
Spell focus and spell pen stack with the archetype.
When against those specific abberations *it's a huge list* they are quite strong, since ALL spells get +2 casting level and +1 dc.. Which is pretty nice. Plus, they get better resistance against confusion, fear, insanity and madness.
If you're looking for an arcane school wizard, this guy, I think, is an upgrade if you're against those abberations or a slight downgrade if you aren't.
They are focused on fighting off the old Gods and that's what those specific creatures are servants of.
I guess it depends on how you value a +1 DC on all spells targeting specific enemies vs. an equivalent spell focus that works on all enemies, but only with your chosen spell school. I think spell focus is going to be better. And the +2 CL is up against Spell Penetration. Are an extra two rounds of debuff against aberrations worth more than +2 to SR penetration against all enemies? It's hard to say that they are. Yet they give up three feats (including Scribe Scroll) for these two abilities that are only very situationally better than equivalent feats. I don't think that's a great trade off.
That doesn't make this a bad archetype, though, it makes it a pretty typical Paizo archetype. They usually give marginal benefits in a highly specialized field at the cost of big general power and flexibility.
I recommend waiting to read the whole archetype (for instance, the +2 caster level checks +1 DC is part of an "alters spellbook" and doesn't replace anything). You actually gain the ability to spontaneously cast some useful spells (including one that usually isn't a wizard spell) at the levels you lose those bonus feats.
Yeah, got to say the Environments section was one of my favorites, a lot of pretty fun options there, and the Dread/Cursed Lord were definitely my favorite templates, just for the stories they allow. Some pretty fun spells, I'll admit I thought decollate was particularly hilarious, and spells like barbed chains, hedging weapons, holy javelin, sacred nimbus, straitjacket, and verminous transformation were all pretty neat, and some of them definitely had style, like death clutch, maze of madness and suffering, and temporary graft. I think the corruptions are fairly interesting too, though I like the Useful Corruption variant the most...but lots of plot seeds sprinkled throughout them, I particularly liked the notion of being - perhaps unwillingly, or unaware of the method - brought back to life via Prothean...
Mark, why didn't you include a ritual to provide the stalker template on a target creature with, as part of the ritual, that the creature must kill his targets and wont stop until those targets are all destroyed? *Using a piece of their clothes, hair, blood or the like.
I recommend waiting to read the whole archetype (for instance, the +2 caster level checks +1 DC is part of an "alters spellbook" and doesn't replace anything). You actually gain the ability to spontaneously cast some useful spells (including one that usually isn't a wizard spell) at the levels you lose those bonus feats.
SEVEN DAYS!!! Well, seven-ish days until the book comes out! So ready for this book to be out. And then... just a few weeks later... Strange Aeons comes out.
It's actually a pair of templates: the Dread Lord template and the more powerful (but imprisoned in its realm) Cursed Lord. As you'd expect, these creatures are deeply and intrinsically tied to a parcel of land that makes up their domain (which grows in size as their HD increases). I won't give the full run-down here, but they get some tasty defensive abilities, significant attribute boosts, and a fear aura while in their lands, and little goes on within the domain that they don't know about, whether through various speak with _____ spells or through other magical divinations they are gifted with. Their power and malign influence extends to the animals, plants, and even weather within their lands, and they can haunt the dreams of trespassers within their realm and possibly dominate them. Dread Lords can leave their lands at the cost of all that power (they lose all benefit when out of their realm), while Cursed Lords are trapped within their realm, unable to die and unable to leave by any means unless very specific conditions are fulfilled to alleviate the curse.
My favorite part of the templates, however, is the One with the Land ability, which allows the Lords to customize their domain to suite their individual natures by seeding them with a host of environmental effects and supernatural hazards you can choose from any source, including all the creepy and dangerous new threats found in the Environment chapter (it's 12 pages of godless voids, zombie-animating fogs, haunted battlfields, and sentient bloodthirsty forests!). Furthermore, the Environment chapter contains an entry for Domains of Evil, which morphs the land in other ways depending on the power of its lord, so that just as creatures taking the template change to reflect their lands, so, too, does the land change to reflect their corrupt master. This symbiosis between rules mechanics makes the template incredibly flavorful and thematic, with tons of options to...
Brandon, I've always been a fan of your work, especially since you shared your knowledge and expertise of occult topics at Paizocon '15. Once again, you show great talent and imagination when it comes to turning fantastical and mythological concepts into rules and mechanics.
By the way, I do understand what this domain/cursed lord is a pretty direct reference too...other then the Fisher King, I believe there is a more recent inspiration. But I have to say that this is a pretty good adaptation of it. :)
Ah, sounds good but the important think I guess is...can I make people more scared than just shaken with the same skill, or with an extra feat or something?
Scratch that, can I get a general, bare bones description of the fear system, please? :)
It takes the trio of existing fear-based conditions and expands them into a spectrum of seven different conditions. And there are guidelines for multiple fear effects overlapping and at times stacking to increase the overall severity against a given PC. There's also a sidebar about house-ruling fear immunity into a fear resistance (using that spectrum) for games where it'd be appropriate.
Oh god the Domain Lord templates sounds like exactly what I need right now for my character that's turning into an Unseelie Fey King.
Paizo can be so wonderful sometimes, some of the stuff you guys produce is just so full of potential for fun.
Brandon, I've always been a fan of your work, especially since you shared your knowledge and expertise of occult topics at Paizocon '15. Once again, you show great talent and imagination when it comes to turning fantastical and mythological concepts into rules and mechanics.
Thank you for the kind words there, Axial. Between Occult Adventures last year and Horror Adventures this year, I've had a great time playing around with my favorite topics for Paizo, cross-pollinating my interests between esoteric history and game design, so it's been a lot of fun. It's awesome when the design team just unlocks the cell door and lets you roam the asylum to write things like Inquisitors who whack enemies with holy books and Occultists who collect haunted artifacts. Hahaha. I also had the privilege of collaborating with Alex Riggs on both the Environment chapter and the Dread Lords template discussed here, and we tossed that template back and forth a couple dozen times to dial it in just right to make that symbiosis with our Environment chapter and my Domains of Evil section work as well as it does. The template's Hit Dice-based Special Attacks menu was a particularly brilliant bit of design Alex envisioned that restructured how spell-like abilities can be awarded to creatures, and I think it will serve as the pattern for a lot of future template design. Great stuff, and I am glad to hear it's being well-received so far!
