Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight (PFRPG)

More on Order of the God Claw please! I'm playing an Order of the God Claw Hellknight in Rise of the Runelords. :) He is loosely based upon Javert from Les Miserables. It's been a lot of fun.

This will be in my cart for sure, I like the Hellknights and find them intriguing.

Nice. Javert is CERTAINLY the major inspiration behind the whole group.

After I first wrote about these guys in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide folks started mentioning "Oh, like Judge Dredd." To which I've always been like, "Oh, yeah, I guess him too." :)

Info on how the newer Occult classes may/may not fit into the organization would be awesome.

I would love to see traits that help various classes feel more "hellknight"...

Seems reasonable.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

Will there be more info in the book on Paladins and Hellknights?

Like, what did you have in mind?

I would love more information on how a paladin is able to join a group knowing it supports an evil government and how a paladin is able to get around the paladin code. To me Hellknights and Paladins just don't mix and how there are Paladins in the Hellknights has just not been explained to my satisfaction.

As an example your opening line for the blurp of this book

"Merciless, black armored enforcers, Hellknights care nothing for good or evil, only the order’s absolute, unflinching vision of law."

does not fit what a paladin is. A paladin is more then just law they care about good and evil.

Fringe cases are always going to be fringe cases.

Most Hellknights are not paladins. Some paladins are Hellknights. The overlap on that venn diagram is not especially large, but it canonically does exist.

Hellknights are fanatics. Paladins are also fanatics. In some orders, some members are capable to making their fanaticisms align. This is not commonly the fast track to the echelons of paladin or Hellknight power, but it can happen. Those that can straddle both worlds are uncommon exceptions, but interesting for being exceptions. They are also likely to face unique challenges to both their faith and their allegiance.

If you can imagine exceptional ways in which a Hellknight might also be a paladin, go ahead and add paladin-Hellknight to your roster of characters to play.

If you can't or otherwise don't like that idea, don't.

It's your game, include/exclude whatever you want.

Tons of neat ideas and suggestions.

I'll see what I can getcha. ;)

Wonder if this supplement will have Hellknight Armiger archetypes of common classes for entry (including spellcasting classes)? Also wonder if it will update the Hellknight prestige classes to work well with more recently released material (including said archetypes, of more classes than were around when the prestige classes were written).

There's probably not going to be a competing new Hellknight PrC, but there might be a few tinkers and ways in.

Hellknights care nothing for good or evil? Funny, I think the Signifiers pretty much qualify as border line Diabolists.

Depends on the signifer... but yeah, overall signifers have a higher likelihood of leaning toward an evil extreme than most rank-in-file Hellknights.

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

Fringe cases are always going to be fringe cases.

Most Hellknights are not paladins. Some paladins are Hellknights. The overlap on that venn diagram is not especially large, but it canonically does exist.

Hellknights are fanatics. Paladins are also fanatics. In some orders, some members are capable to making their fanaticisms align. This is not commonly the fast track to the echelons of paladin or Hellknight power, but it can happen. Those that can straddle both worlds are uncommon exceptions, but interesting for being exceptions. They are also likely to face unique challenges to both their faith and their allegiance.

If you can imagine exceptional ways in which a Hellknight might also be a paladin, go ahead and add paladin-Hellknight to your roster of characters to play.

If you can't or otherwise don't like that idea, don't.

It's your game, include/exclude whatever you want.

I had a long discussion about this with my GM. Mechanically Paladin/Hellknight is awesome! I nearly made my Hellknight a Paladin with the idea that I would be playing him as a Lawful good paladin instead of the more classic lawful good paladin.

I'm not sure that made sense. Essentially, the conclusion we came to was that a Paladin that joined the Hellknights would be significantly more focused on the Lawful aspect of his alignment than the good aspect, to the point that he would be borderline neutral. Ultimately, I decided to make Fighter the base class.

I'm glad we have the oath against chaos option for paladins that seek this path. ^_^

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

That actually sounds intriguing...but may smack too much of the Blood Wars of D&D for Paizo.

I know that James Jacobs had a knee jerk reaction of that sort when I brought up a similar idea -- but there is a big difference between an eons long war between devils and demons and a nation such as Cheliax that is really big on the law vs. chaos theme and thus would gladly summon devils to fight demons.

rank-in-file

Imagine looking at a military formation from the reviewing stand in front of which they're formed. The lines of troops from left to right are the ranks. The lines from front to back are the files. "Rank and file" not "rank-in-file".

Sorry, pet peeve. One of many. :-)

Leg o' Lamb wrote:

Tons of neat ideas and suggestions.

I'll see what I can getcha. ;)

Thanks, Wes; that is all I can ask.

I am a huge fan of the Hellknights and would love to see a more clearly defined difference between them as a LN organization than a LE one. I understand that they support Cheliax, but if the government started acting outside of the law or against the interest of continued stability, I would like to see the Hellknights painted as protectors against Chaos.

What the APs really need is more occurrences of the Hellknights as allies of the PCs against Chaos and less as mooks the players are meant to fight. I hope we get a more 'gentler' Order or at least see from a Golarion perspective why they are the 'good guys' without being Good.

I am a huge fan of the Hellknights and would love to see a more clearly defined difference between them as a LN organization than a LE one. I understand that they support Cheliax, but if the government started acting outside of the law or against the interest of continued stability, I would like to see the Hellknights painted as protectors against Chaos.

What the APs really need is more occurrences of the Hellknights as allies of the PCs against Chaos and less as mooks the players are meant to fight. I hope we get a more 'gentler' Order or at least see from a Golarion perspective why they are the 'good guys' without being Good.

Hm, maybe the Order of the Torrent might be interesting for starters, then. It's in Hell's Rebels.

Otherwise: I didn't even know a minute ago that this book was in line. Now that I know about it: can't wait!

*dottingdrooling*

Ruyan.

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

My understanding is that that is how the Order of the Godclaw actually got founded. IIRC, the Godclaw was fighting the Worldwound for decades before they withdrew (or got recalled?) to Isger.

Axial wrote:

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

My understanding is that that is how the Order of the Godclaw actually got founded. IIRC, the Godclaw was fighting the Worldwound for decades before they withdrew (or got recalled?) to Isger.

Makes sense, since the Godclaw is composed of worshippers of Iomedae and Torag, Abadar and Irori, in addition to Asmodeus. Iomedae, in particular, is pretty strongly motivated to address the problem of the Worldwound, and *none* of those five gods are big fans of demons.

Whether or not it's Golarion canon or not, I'd be very much inclined to pit a Godclaw presence against the demons of the Worldwound, not out of a desire to 'redeem' the Hellknights involved, so much, as to play with the dramatic potential for a group of Iomedae worshippers stuck in the middle of two factions of Iomedaens on opposite sides of the probably inevitable resulting friction.

Is there no "Campaign Setting" product in july?
All other product lines have been actualized for that month.
I reckon the "Hell's Vengeance poster map folio" should be the july product.

I would love to play a hellknight kimeticist, will there be any options for them in here?

Extremely excited for this. I built/played a Hellknight for Wrath of the Righteous, and he was absolutely fantastic. I drew on the history of the Order of the Godclaw and its roots in the Medevian Crusades and built up from there.

When we captured Citadel Drezen, my character met with the other Lictors to request permission to found a new order, dedicated to the eradication of the demon kind - the Order of the Lesion (named for the Worldwound.)

In time, as a Heirophant taking Divine Source, my Vicarius' goal is to become god of the Hellknights.

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

My character in our Wrath of the Righteous campaign founded that *exact* Order - the Order of the Lesion.

He agrees with you wholeheartedly.

I'd be happy to share details with you if you'd like to steal them for your campaign.

Axial wrote:

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

My character in our Wrath of the Righteous campaign founded that *exact* Order - the Order of the Lesion.

He agrees with you wholeheartedly.

I'd be happy to share details with you if you'd like to steal them for your campaign.

I'd certainly love to hear about it. ^_^

(PMs are fine.)

Axial wrote:

It's probably too much to ask at this point because of the lore ramifications, but I thought it'd be really cool if there was a Hellknight order that specialized in taking down demons. Essentially, a faction of ruthless enforcers who crack down on Demons and their cultists with all the fervor of a 40k Inquisitor. They would probably be based near the Worldwound and nominally allied with the Mendev crusaders. After all, if the demons were victorious over the crusades and the Worldwound expanded, then it would result in extraplanar chaotic forces spreading across the Inner Sea like wildlife...which is probably something a Hellknight would want to prevent.

My character in our Wrath of the Righteous campaign founded that *exact* Order - the Order of the Lesion.

He agrees with you wholeheartedly.

I'd be happy to share details with you if you'd like to steal them for your campaign.

I think I remember reading your post.

Doesn't his order have a war razor as it's favored weapon?

You did!

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qx6l?Order-of-the-Lesion-Founding-a-Hellknight -Order

"The Order of the Lesion is stationed at and named for the Worldwound. Its members believe that infection, corruption, and decay - both physical and moral - must be cleansed, cauterized, or amputated to stop its spread. Though seen by some as more altruistic than other Hellknight orders as members of the Order of the Lesion provide healing and treatment to the sick and injured, this is done out of pragmatism, not mercy. The Order of the Lesion sees the Worldwound as a metaphysical representation of the moral infection and decay of the world, and views demons as just another plague to be purged.

The Order's penance will be to be bled followed by cauterization. The War Razor is the Order's favored weapon. The Order's crest is a razor over a bowl."

My early plans ended up changing slightly as my character evolved (and I realized Mythic Leadership was 3rd party.)

Gulthor ended up going Heirophant rather than Champion; I still inflated my Leadership score as much as I could.

At the moment, I have Divine Source II, planning on going all the way to DSIII. I did end up with Law and Healing, followed up by Community, Redemption, and Torture, then DSIII will be Fire, Judgment, and Resurrection.

His holy symbol is a spiked chain link, which ended up finally providing inspiration for the unique appearance of the Order's armor (in addition to the crimson cloaks) - the armor is decorated to appear wrapped in razor wire (treat as spiked armor.)

Words cannot properly describe how happy I am to see this in the offing :)

I have 2 PFS Hellknights (well, one Hellknight and one Signifer), but I've always wanted to learn more about them even more than what was published in Council of Thieves and the ISWG!

PS... is it Signifer or Signifier? The blurb above says the latter but other books have it as the former?

I also have a few Hellknights in PFS. I am really looking forwards to the art in this, and I hope they reference the Ice Devil plate, and how it interacts with the various orders and their traditional armor. I would love if they also have other types of devil armor like say bearded devil armor or the like.

This is great. I mentioned wanting a book with more info on the Hellknights in a few wish list threads not long ago.

PS... is it Signifer or Signifier? The blurb above says the latter but other books have it as the former?

Signifer.

This is great. I mentioned wanting a book with more info on the Hellknights in a few wish list threads not long ago.

Just. For. You! :D

Tell your friends.

As a Hellknight of The Order of the Godclaw, I approve of this book. I look forward to use the new materials in this book to smite down and punish those who would flaunt and break the laws of Gods and Men.

can't wait to get this book

dot

I like how this *might* be the start of a new series within the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line, this one focusing on the various organizations in the Pathfinder setting.

Path of the Mendevian Crusader
Path of the Red Mantis

I agree with path of the red mantis. hope one days a full assassin class of red mantis or ultimate evil if is going to happen one days.

I wonder if it will include any information on the Order of the Crux.

Path of the Mendevian Crusader I would definitely purchase. This one? Eh, I will have to see it first.

Hellknights care nothing for good or evil? Funny, I think the Signifiers pretty much qualify as border line Diabolists.

I wouldn't read that as "They avoid good and evil" but rather "They don't care whether they do good or evil, either is fine, as long as it is in service of law." Any diabolists they have, borderline or even literal, are acceptablly evil in promoting and enforcing law.

Actually that would be pretty cool.
Could detail a number of groups and organizations that have been mentioned previously in the past once or twice and go into further detail on them.

I like how this *might* be the start of a new series within the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line, this one focusing on the various organizations in the Pathfinder setting.

Path of the Mendevian Crusader
Path of the Red Mantis

I'd like to see Path of the Swordlord if that were to be a thing.

Path of the Mendevian Crusader I would definitely purchase.

Path... road, same thing :]

Fourshadow wrote:

Path of the Mendevian Crusader I would definitely purchase.

Path... road, same thing :]

Yep, purchased that too--my favorite Tales book ever. I was very pleased to see Stackpole write one...would love a sequel to it, but that would belong in a different thread.

I am a huge story > rules guy, but I'm looking forward to seeing more things on each of the Orders (favored weapons, powers for Hellknights and gazes for Signifers), and hopefully some clarifications on some of the past language for the prestige classes! :)

I'm also curious to see if there will be any guidelines for character level vs. Hellknight rank (in PFS scenarios, at least, even some of the Master/Mistress of Blades and/or Lictors don't have tons of levels in the prestige classes themselves).

Yea...I am *really* looking forward to this book! :)

Will there happen to be images be some of the lesser-known orders in here? I want to see what the Orders of the Pike, Scar, and Coil's respective armors are supposed to look like!

Well it depends really. Some of the Orders could be seen as less evil. Order of the Pike hunts monsters, heck Order of the Gate could be quite good depending. I mean think about it how many fantasy stories have some holy order guarding a gate that something bad is on the other side of?
Actually discussion of the weird good Hellknight and their counter parts could be interesting.

Will there happen to be images be some of the lesser-known orders in here? I want to see what the Orders of the Pike, Scar, and Coil's respective armors are supposed to look like!

Between our Taldan home and our preference for rapiers, I envisioned our armor looking something like this.

OOOOOOoooo something I just realized that I really, really, really, REALLY want to be in this book that would also help combat the common misconception that the Hellknights are one singular uniform entity.

In WoD game books in detailing each Clan/group they have a sidebar for each one with their common perception of all the other clans in it. So I think it would be neat for each Hellknight Order to have one in regards to all the other Orders since they actually don't always see eye to eye.

So say for the Order of the Torrent section they could list what they think of Order of the Chain, Order of the Rack, etc.

Here's hoping ^w^

My Dread Vanguard Tyrant Antipaladin is going to love playing with this in Hells Vengeance.

Updated with final product image and description!

The new cover reminds me of the Justice League opening. Oh, they're delivering justice alright! Just maybe not the kind you were hoping for!

Oh, man I love the cover is showing so many orders already. Lets see we have an going left to right, Order of the Pyre, Order of the Scourge, Order of the Rack, Order of the Godsclaw, and Order of the Nail.

The Godclaw one actually threw me, I had pictured it more as a claw going over the persons face, not as a helm with a claw like crown on the top. Though the Godclaw is also a *big* quite obviously a big guy.

Not sure what Ennead Star is refering to here, but Ennead generally means a group of nine. So maybe it is like the Godclaws five fold path and represents nine lawful deities, or perhaps it is a belief that the various points on the alignment chart are demonstrating an overall system of law?