Depends on the situation and area the game is set in.
Basically, it depends entirely on the setting/'type' of slavery, it's a thing that exists and the players are free to interact with it or not as per their characters attitudes.
I'd put it like this.
Lawful Good attempts to create a system that benefits everyone and protects those that need protecting, they put structures in place that help others and work within them to drive out misuse or abuse as well as destructive forces that might damage that system and attempt to change rather than destroy systems that harm others.
Two decent examples off the top of my head;
2: Bandits are attacking trade caravans, turns out they're basically poor and impoverished farmer types who are being pushed to banditry by the heavy taxation of a particular lord, with some bad apples mixed in who are just cruel and doing it for kicks
LG tends to think more long term basically, because they're thinking in terms of the future as well as the now, its a slower, more difficult process than just rocking into town, kicking the evil lord in the teeth and wandering off again leaving a power vacuum.
Also, check out the last book, one of the variant options is a vampire-orientated version of a certain hero from the game.
To be honest it sounds to me like your player is having fun playing the classic terrible Big Bad Guy, who can enact slaughter on an army level scale.
Group of Paladins? Guess they're now divine guardian Paladins or Celestial Paladins, or riding golden wyverns.
But whatever you do, don't arbitrarily depower the player character, it never goes well and it always feels cheap if you're on the other end of it. If you really can't handle then talk to the player on the quiet out of session and ask him if he's cool with a knock down so you can rest easier, maybe you can give him something else cool instead.
Personally I always preferred the option of Swiss cheesing the Abyss with rivers of holy water, cascading down from above to fill the unknowable depths slowly over the aeons. My character even designed a special spell that causes any body of water to turn into holy water, then created an item of it meaning that any body of water touched by the rapidly growing pool turned into Holy Water (The Holy Goo Scenario)
Needless to say, that plan worked both great and poorly, good news! Heavy Demons sink! Dretch can't even teleport! Teleportation isn't much use when you keep teleporting into places filled with holy water! Quippoth race drowns! Total disorganization in the ranks and Demon Lords falling due to lack of waterwings! Dagons entire sea has been purified and boy is he salty about it!
Really it went quite well in hindsight, in my opinion.
My two suggestions would either be make healing a weakened Corruption (Check out Ragnorra in Elder Evils) or have scars remain despite healing.
Its very easy to forget just how much damage heroes get through in games, but describing the gristling mass that is the shoulder of a fighter after being chewed over by a Gug now and then can keep things fairly horrific without hurting the PCs survival chances.
To be fair, I honestly don't think you were baiting and I don't mean to imply so.
I do think it'd be best to talk to him out of character, if you believe its an out of character problem. Sit down, get a couple of beers and basically say 'Lusty is totes fine, playing hide the sausage with a skull raises eyebrows man, you don't have to go to the complete extreme to play up how he's lusty'
Unless it is totally in character for him to do so in which case we could totally have the wrong end of the stick and he could explain the logic behind it to you and you could totally realize he's playing it legit, who knows.
I'd say talk to the player about it out of character, don't have anything happen in character just yet (Except maybe a warning dream or two.)
More importantly though, I'd say the player isn't taking the role seriously and that's where the problem is coming from, if he can explain it all perfectly as IC logic then fair enough, but if you want a player to play things straight and they've opted not to, no amount of in character warnings are going to change things, because its only people that are taking things seriously and care about in character consequences, that get bothered and react to in character warnings.
He assaulted a skull. Have his half-undead child show up later.
While this would be hilarious, it'd probably only drive the player more down the road of treating things like a comedy.
You managed to post a thread with a first post and title which was guaranteed to bring out the local Paladin Defence League, and then you throw down what really happened!
You mean he didn't give full details and was initially vague, then more detail was supplied and it turns out things were worse than people expected."Being Lustful" isn't a reason for a Paladin to fall, its not being Chaotic.
"Desecrating the dead" is a different kettle of fish.
The reason people feel the need to defend Paladin players is because there are GMs out there who think that a Paladin is a Challenge, that only by making them fall can you have an interesting story. Which is absurd (See above for people suggesting he should be put in a situation where he either leaves the party forever or instantly falls - you could have a girl turn up pregnant who wants the child. The most honorable thing for your paladin to do is stay with her, effectively ending his adventuring career. If he leaves her, that isn't the least bit "good" and might even cause a fall.)
When I ran the game, I kept the children from the Fish house around as a gang that the PCs had close contact with, the Lambs, they basically became a group of street children/cult led by the low level oracle 'The Lamb'
Best scene with the Lambs was them bringing back a dead horse killed in one of the riots and taking the entire thing apart for meat, the players thought something terrible had happened when they returned to their den and found a huge bloodstain on the floor only to end up getting dinner presented to them by a bunch of shy, desperate for approval children. That and one of the more benevolent players explaining to a little girl that they don't have to steal any more to avoid being hurt, that they'd look after them because they cared, after the girl presented them with a watch they'd stolen, having to actually convince the younger children was a great scene.
Think Gavroche from Les Miserables.
Basically? Fighters lack options.
Everything they could, logically, choose to do to spice up combat has its own feat, they lack skill points and skill boosting abilities and above all they lack a disposable resource that they can use to improve their base line abilities.
Clerics and Druids can fighter better than a fighter because they can increase their power, Wizards have more options because they have a cornucopia of spells that can suit any situation depending on what they pick in the morning.
In my personal experience best way to improve the lot of the Fighter is to use Path of War for their combat and give a disposable out of combat resource that renews, stamina or mythic are good underlying mechanics, the surge ability of Mythic is a perfect example of the kind of 'Grit your teeth and use your last surge of strength to come to an epiphany about your investigation/swing across the chasm and save the Princess/uncover the secret door and escape' skill resource that Fighting men types need on hand.
Kingmaker, I'd love to see a honest to god full sandbox Kingmaker book, I feel that the AP layout really kicked what Kingmaker could've been out from under it.
God, it'd be so good.
The Bane of Sorrow is a mirror, given from one lover to another, originally given by a courtier to the Queen as a gift.
The mirror, according to legend, shows the person how they truly are, or when gifted by another how they see you and so is the ultimate tool for lovers to see true how they perceive each other.
The mirror shows you how you see yourself, all your imperfections and the things you see as good about yourself shown without shame nor malice. Its a tool of self-reflection, to help a person realize and admit their own flaws and improve on them. The Bane of Sorrow isn't love, its self-assurance and self-confidence, being happy with who you are and the courtier believed the young Queen would benefit from the strength that being able to look yourself in the face and see those flaws slowly fade would bring.
Of course, things didn't quite go to plan.
So, the Courtier gave the Queen the mirror and rather than realizing what it was, she assumed that the aloof Queen of Ice that appeared before her was how the world (Even her wooer) perceived her and obsessed over it, growing colder and colder until her heart literally froze over and she withdrew from the world.
The Knights of Winter don't realize this and think that the mirror is the reason for the 'Winter of the Queens heart', that if they break the mirror it will free her from the curse of the mirror when in reality all it will do is lead her deeper into a spiral of self-loathing and alienation.
Olgrimm meanwhile brought his army not to challenge the Queen but to woo her, his intention being to unite their forces and so on, so forth.
She found this adorable, that anyone could love one such as her and basically froze him to avoid the disappointment once he found her of her 'winter frozen heart and to let his love live forever (In a very fey definition of live)
As for the Crown of Envy and the Star of Wrath, two equally valuable artifacts for spiritual benefit, the former showing us the flaws of others and how their lives aren't perfect either (Basically perception of others) and the latter showing the damage that ones anger causes to those around them (Basically how actions influence others)
I'd solidly say reward them maybe by picking up the Downtime rules and possibly even the Kingmaker rules.
Starting an opposing front in Darkmoon Vale won't be easy, the Consortium are the kind of mustache twirling capitalist 'Oh its such a shame our rival had that accident where he went out into the forest and managed to somehow stab himself in the back' types that they'll probably face corrupt opposition constantly.
But, on the other hand have the actual people of the area warm to them, going from hard and cynical to cheering them on as they realize maybe these guys are an alternative, a better chance.
That plus having the fey in the area perfectly willing to work with them could result in some fun involving a mix of high octane Capitalism as they fight the Consortium for Merchant contracts (And throttle them one inch at a time with their own purse strings) and sneaky behind the scenes gang warfare as the more illegal arm of the consortium tries to get rid of them only to run up against the good people of the land and the fey.
You could straight up run such a concept through to level 20 easily enough, with the Lumber Consortium just being the first crooked company (Then leading through into the Aspis and their allies once it falls)
I'd say the best starting point is to make it clear over time just how miserable and messed up things are in the Vale, how cynical and broken the people are, what an amoral force the Consortium is as a whole and then have the PCs make an impact on it.
My GM has changed systems midway through a game from Pathfinder to 5E, the character I'm playing is fairly non-standard and I have never played 5E before.
I have no idea how to create him, we're going to probably suffer a huge hit in ability meaning some of the things he'd done previously make no sense and a bunch of his equipment is now basically vestigial fluff. I can totally sympathize with him wanting to switch systems but I have no idea how to bring him across and I can't complain since the rest of the party are also pretty down with it and it might help a game that was going incredibly slowly speed up and smooth out.
But, a character I really enjoyed playing and don't really want to retire might end up mechanically not viable, as in I literally cannot make him.
Is Auzmezar (The Master of the Circle of Hierophants Siabrae and leader of the Siabrae in the Worldwound) still considered the head of the Green Faith in Golarion?
If so, how could a PC make claim upon the position of Master of the Circle if they wanted to replace him with a less bitter and skeletal head of the druid faith?
I've had a character cry in a game.
Bit of a side mission involving our teams utility white necromancer (NG Pharasman cleric), Pharasman Inquisitor and monk that puts down the dead buddy copping it in Abalsom to stop a 10 year curse before it can claim any more victims and to get the soul of a hanged man on their side (Hangman's Noose), the monk ends up trapped in the Court house.
When the Monk tracked him down he found him sitting on the corpse of a Koblak, crying his eyes out, surrounded by attic whisperers, dozens of them who were all nuzzled up to him and listening to a hoarsely whispered bed time story.
He's basically aiming for the good ending of Bioshock, except with the undead, if things go well. If not, well.
Have you considered having outsiders trying to tempt them from both sides as they gain power?
Or they get quietly approached by someone that wants to hire them on to guard a ritual at a temple, only to find out its a cult of the Old Ones, after all they're a known neutral quantity, they get paid, they guard. Do they stop it? do they stand in the way of heroes who are coming to try?
Alignment is choice, as much as it is mechanics
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
It...kind of seems like you just said the same thing twice. You just gave the flavor text the first time and the rules text the second.
Of course we have curses. We have a f~+*ton of curses. And they all do all sorts of different things.
The major difference is the first involves choice on the part of the King (In this case the player character)Its something he opts to do each step of the way, rather than it being done to him.
To put it in neater terms, Curses are/should be something someone else does to you, Corruption is/should be something offered/that taints you and then you do it all to yourself.
For that to happen the power offered has to be, well, tempting.
That and a difference in scale.
Edit: Minor additional thought, Corruptions would be, if done better, a fantastic way to introduce horror elements into your game, they're power at the simple cost of ones soul, moral decency, sanity and loved ones and Players are naturally inclined to accept any offer of power they get.
Simple.We already have a thing for curses. They're called curses.
Corruptions are, by their name and nature, meant to be corrupting, they're meant to be game changers, to twist your character in new, interesting directions.
For example, imagine a corruption that lets you become a kind of Fisher King only to slowly turn you into a Dread Lord. There are perfectly good, in character reasons why even a good aligned king could be tempted by that sort of power, being able to guard his subjects better through accepting that from now on he's going to be just a touch closer with the land.
War comes and he's suddenly in a position where the land is being wracked and looted, so he accepts that the only option is to kill the invaders, bury them in the land, to feed it and grow strong again.
That's far, far more interesting than just 'so your character has been cursed to eat 1 HD of hearts a week in return for a +2 to cha checks with his subjects (Once a day)'
I'd sincerely say that the corruptions are the second most disappointing part of Horror Adventures in my eyes.
The fluff is mildly interesting, I love the Hive one for example, but the mechanical side of it is basically uninteresting, gives niche powers for painful drawbacks, built for one specific 'story' (Oh no, you got dipped in alien goo/poked by a hag/fiddled by a golem, better do something about that before it consumes your soul) when Corruption should be more about the temptation of power and dangerous offerings for great strength, for example any horror sorcerer or dangerous cult leader in literature ever.
And the 'become an NPC, do not pass go, do not collect £200' is just absurd, part of horror has always been terrible things happening and living with the consequences. As it stands the consequences are the GM taking away your character and you make a new one, you're effectively dead, move on.
Meanwhile the current corruptions are more along the lines of 'meager power for huge drawbacks, oh and become an NPC if you're weak willed or play a character that becomes a lich/werewolf/shadow tainted'
Considering all four elemental planes in Golarion are run by creatures of abject evil I'd suggest that the implication is that taking away some of their potential tools and weapons isn't such a bad thing to do.
Either that or in terms of mortality, Elementals just think in different terms, being immortal creatures. So the imprisonment passes fairly quickly for them even if its aeons.
So its less like being hauled into a van and dragged off to The Happy Funtime Dungeon (tm) that someone has in their basement for the rest of your life and more like being nudged into a taxi, driven around for 5 minutes and then left within walking distance of your home, mildly irritating rather than horrific.
Wait until he inevitably slips up then kill him. Make sure to be stronger than him at all times, make sure to be careful never to be within the one hit death zone in terms of HP.
And when he knackers it up, as he already has by letting you know OOC, destroy him.
What else can you do really. He's made his bed, he can lie in it while he bleeds to death.
The Mordant Spire would be fascinating to deal with.
Or the Blighted Fey Forest, I can't remember the exact name of it.
The Valley of Fire, cleansing the ghosts of a thousand lost souls would be pretty interesting and on that note Heibarr involves the same sort of theme.
The Ground of Lost Tears has some fascinating implications, in that its a place filled with incorporeal undead who follow Pharasma and sing her praises when they awaken, but haven't yet been destroyed by her or her Psychopomps, why? Maybe they're guarding something for her or maybe it implies she isn't as hardline on undead as she first appears.
The Boneyard Spire has some fascinating implications as well, hints of an entire pantheon who are unknown in the current day bar Groetus and Pharasma, maybe hints of a world before this one? Or of the incredible losses that Rovagug inflicted on the multiverse?
Oh, much more recently than the evil sword?
The screaming, bloody skull of Malyas, Dark Lord of Kronquist torn from his living flesh by our local white necromancer and turned into a semi-living Pharasman variant on the Dark Skull (Hallow rather than Desecrate with Anti-undead powers), which acts as host to his chained soul, trapped for all eternity until Pharasma herself cares to come collect him.
Needless to say, the Vampire isn't particularly happy about the situation, but he deserves every inch of it all things considered.
Only one specific enemy. The Whispering Tyrant to be specific.
The dragon is the mother of the dragon that was made into the Horns of Naraga; Karamorros is her name I think.
Oddly one of the things the circle does is that she doesn't have to eat anymore. She's in this bizarre state of not dead when she should be having spent aeons trapped in the Wizards Pit.
And I'm not gaining much by freeing her, she's one of many potential allies in this particular fight and one of the more risky ones to make contact with at that. In fact I won't even really benefit from picking a fight with the Tyrant.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
In order:1: He's fairly evens on it, on the one hand Black Dragons are Bad and she's old, canny and terrible. On the other hand she lost her two children and has been in the dungeon a very, very long time and probably hates the Whispering to a degree that'd even worry other Black Dragons, so using him as a directing point was a good call in his eyes.
He's solidly neutral on the idea of recruiting her.
2: Golarion setting, according to Dragons Revisited Chromatics can be redeemed, its just hard.
4: Fairly well I like to hope.
6: Not the sort of player that'd know or offer if he was. I prefer doing things legit.
Can Chromatic dragons be redeemed?
One of my characters currently has a bit of a captive audience in the form of an imprisoned Great Wyrm Black Dragon Matriarch (Trapped by a mutual foe aeons ago), locked in a magic circle so complex that he honestly can't unlock it yet.
So I'm planning to use research on the circle as a cover to talk to the beast. Mechanically my character is smarter and more charming (But not as wise, otherwise he wouldn't be trying this) than the dragon.
What are my chances in all honesty? My most likely angle of attack far as I can tell is starting with a NE philosophy of the benefits of using others, then working up to TN its good to work together/you benefit personally in the long run from not eating villages then up to NG.
Anyone else got any amusing stories of unlikely allies or redemption.
Go outside the box. Contract that his consorts will be spared(Honest contract, not 'lol you didn't read clause 152631') if he submits. Works better if some of them got snagged beforehand.
Pretty much what my group did.We have a guy that can pull peoples hearts out while they're still living ala that guy from temple of doom.
We collected the hearts of his consorts and didn't even have to fight him, because the negotiator we sent in had the hearts hanging around his neck and the Consorts following behind him, we stated clearly we wouldn't trade his heart for theirs.
But we wouldn't make him choose one heart to be returned (While they all watched, letting them know which one he truly loved over the others), if he gave us his heart to keep with theirs.
It was a pretty fantastic session.
Then they rode him back to meet their Black Dragon 'friend', slaughtered him and had a good aligned dragon kill the King, thus cementing in the minds of the populace that he deserved it somehow.
what attracts this player to being a lycanthrope? is it the curse? the power? the shape changing?
I'd say its the chance to play something non-standard.If you want an interesting way to waste time, grab a book of templates, flick to a random page and consider just how cool it'd be to play a character with that template.
Imagine all the fun you could have playing a creature that changes its nature with the seasons, or an escaped experiment with the head of a moose, or even just a basic dude that's been touched by the fey.
Know what could be a really fun twist to suggest to the GM?
If he does try to tone down the ritual and uses rapists or devil souls or only eats a really Evil Baby (Half fiends, they exist) then suggest to the GM that he turn into an Arch-lich, not a lich.
Suddenly he has good alignment and is sat there wondering what on earth happened as Urgathoa declares he's no fun anymore and wanders off to go snort powdered dragon horn off the Maelstrom or whatever she does in her spare time.
That could be very amusing.
Totally useless for OP of course unless your GM likes the idea, but could be amusing.
We had an arc in our kingmaker game involving the characters trying to matchmake for their far too serious sorcerer/Magister who claimed he was 'married to his work' which everyone assumed was just because he was too shy/awkward to talk to girls.
Rom com shenanigans ensued as they tried to set up dates, arranged marriages, there were rumors he was a play boy after he danced with half the single young women of the upper class in one night due to all the PCs vouching for different partners.
Things eventually came to a head when it came to light that someone had seen him riding a unicorn, so everyone naturally assumed he was still a virgin.
Turned out he was friends with the Unicorn and it was taking him off most nights to visit his Nymph lover, the Bard-Kings reaction was amazing.
So what you're saying is that in character your party betrayed someone who implicitly trusted them, to the point where they could ambush and subdue him despite him apparently having loads of minions and then handed him over for certain death by execution when there was a Runelord awakening and they needed all the help they could get.
There's two sides to every story, if you flip the alignments you'd certainly think it was an unacceptable thing for the party to do and more than slightly unfair when the guy was by the sound of it playing fairly legit with them.
As someone playing a minion happy necromancer in a fairly heavy online game the main thing any minion-master needs to learn to do at a table is to know when to step back and have their character find a wall to prop up and have a smoke behind.
Look up the term Godzilla Threshold on TVTropes, basically you only break out your minions when you've reached this point and before that you maybe goof about a bit and let others be more in the spotlight than you.
A Dragonmech campaign I was in had a LG Gun that was possessed by the soul of a Paladin who had utterly failed to save his homeland when the Moon came down.
My LE character ended up carrying it after buying it from a desperately nervous merchant. It was polite, it was charming, it was convinced she could be better than the amoral bountyhunter she was at the start of the game.
And if she couldn't be better it fully intended to force an ego roll, jam itself into her mouth and pull the trigger. Straight up fire and brimstone Paladin who didn't take any prisoners and believed in hard justice, was happy to manipulate and bluff people into doing good deeds and basically worked with the forces of the divine to play events around the team to the benefit of all. In the end my character spent half the time keeping it in a lead lined holster (Upgraded later to a lead lined box in a bag of holding) to stop it reading her mind and intentions.
It was like carrying the LG version of Stormbringer, constantly manipulating and playing a game greater than the character could ever imagine, absurdly dangerous to its user and powerful enough that sometimes you didn't have a choice but to call on it.
What would a planet want exactly?
Its mentioned in the Worldwound campaign book that there's a secret well below Greengrave where those who re so inclined can get in touch with the spirit of the world of Golarion, or at least whatever it is that drives the Green Faith.
He's hoping to become Heirophant/Pope of the Green Faith by doing its will.
What on earth would a planet even want?
How would the spirit of an entire world act?