Pathfinder Player Companion: Armor Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

I was really looking looking forward to this book because like many of us I got excited thinking of items I'd like to see and was disappointed when seeing the truth...
I just have to ask if this book addressed some of the game issues people have had with armor

Is there a way to not be a fighter and get full speed in med or heavy armor (I know there is mithral but i am looking for traits, feats,or new equipment)

Is there an fix for Arcane Spell failure with heavier armor ( I know there are feats but the remove only a portions of the chance. I was looking re-rolls for ASF , bonuses, or again traits, feats,or new equipment)

Feats or traits to make shields better than just bashing

I think some expectations were way too high. Look at it for what it is not what it isn't. It is not Weapn Master's Handbook...there can be only one, anyway (pun intended). Just in my brief perusal I really find most of the shield feats/styles intriguing as well as Spring-heeled Style. The light armor magic properties looked like fun as well. Phantasmal? Phase-locked? Yes, those look like fun.

Is there a way to not be a fighter and get full speed in med or heavy armor (I know there is mithral but i am looking for traits, feats,or new equipment)

Isn't already bad enough that everyone has the ability or potential to have what the Fighters have? They don't have much of their own as it is, which is why it ends up being the least desirable class.

Removed some posts and their responses.

Some of the shield feats sound interesting.

The feat that lets you bash with a buckler... can you then also attack with a weapon held in the hand for the same arm the buckler is on? Can you get Shield Slam and use the buckler to bull rush targets? I'm thinking along the lines of; 'bash + bull rush to wall, bash + bull rush into wall, oh look he's prone, stabbity, stabbity!'

No PDF yet. I think the shipping gods hate me. :[

Also a feat to allow bucklers to not count as using the hand they are on, allowing Swashbucklers, Magus and Monks etc to use them (Unhindered Shield, needs Shield Focus)

Wait, WHAT? Bucklers already don't count as occupying the hand.

I think some expectations were way too high. Look at it for what it is not what it isn't. It is not Weapn Master's Handbook...there can be only one, anyway (pun intended). Just in my brief perusal I really find most of the shield feats/styles intriguing as well as Spring-heeled Style. The light armor magic properties looked like fun as well. Phantasmal? Phase-locked? Yes, those look like fun.

Yeah, honestly, I don't think this can be expected to be as good as the WMH simply because of the subjects. In numbers alone, there's MUCH more you can do with weapons than you really can with armor. With weapons you have to consider stuff like ranged, melee, slashing, bludgeoning, peircing, etc. Armor...it hopefully stops you from getting hurt.

That said, no one has said anything about a feat or the like that let's you get the bonus to AC from two shields. That's really disappointing to me. :(

THAT said, I haven't gotten my PDF yet, but I'm still looking forward to it because a lot of what's mentioned here sounds REALLY cool. :)

JohnHawkins wrote:

Also a feat to allow bucklers to not count as using the hand they are on, allowing Swashbucklers, Magus and Monks etc to use them (Unhindered Shield, needs Shield Focus)

Wait, WHAT? Bucklers already don't count as occupying the hand.

No they don't.

JohnHawkins wrote:

Also a feat to allow bucklers to not count as using the hand they are on, allowing Swashbucklers, Magus and Monks etc to use them (Unhindered Shield, needs Shield Focus)

Wait, WHAT? Bucklers already don't count as occupying the hand.

As written, this is a much stronger version of "doesn't occupy the hand." You are literally not counted as using that hand for anything, so it allows buckler use with, for instance, Dervish Dance.

There is no feat which allows the AC from 2 shield for which I am grateful :(. Others may disagree.
There is a feat allowing the historical Polearm and shield style (without the fighter archetype)

No they don't.
They use of a buckler prevents Slashing/Fencing grace, spell combat and it interferes with weapon finesse(penalty to hit) if you actually want to get the benefit from buckler AC.

Yes, they do. This also implies they would work with Spell Combat, though using the hand the buckler is on to cast the spell would negate the AC bonus. You are correct that Bucklers apply ACP to Finesse, but that is easily rectified by purchasing a Masterwork Buckler (ACP: 0)

I am merely describing what the feat does. It is possible that I and the author are wrong and the feat does nothing. You can have that argument when you get the pdf , I was just helpfully providing information

My only guess without looking directly at the source would be that it was supposed to affect other shields at one point as well? I will have to see for myself when my group has access to it.

Lukas Stariha wrote:

JohnHawkins wrote:

Also a feat to allow bucklers to not count as using the hand they are on, allowing Swashbucklers, Magus and Monks etc to use them (Unhindered Shield, needs Shield Focus)

Wait, WHAT? Bucklers already don't count as occupying the hand.

As written, this is a much stronger version of "doesn't occupy the hand." You are literally not counted as using that hand for anything, so it allows buckler use with, for instance, Dervish Dance.

Quoted for actually solving the problem people are freaking out about.

Bucklers are, by default, already fine with Fencing Grace and Slashing Grace. They aren't fine with Dervish Dance. There are probably a number of other abilities that fall into the Dervish Dance category that this Feat opens up as options combined with a buckler.

Don't freak out without reading the actual Feat, folks.

Especially when someone has already explained why you don't need to.

It appears that the Unhindering Shield feat does have an error in regard to the Swashbuckler's Precise Strike deed -- it already makes an exception for bucklers, so this feat provides no benefit for that deed. However, it would be quite useful for the Duelist's Precise Strike class feature, which lacks that exception.

It is difficult to see a good application of that Guardian Armor spell other than as an emergency save that solves an immediate problem at the cost of creating issues for the rest of the battle. I was hoping that a squishy character on watch could wear a suit of heavy armor and then cast that spell to teleport it onto the sleeping party tank, but the problem with that is that most characters who would otherwise rather not be wearing armor would risk arcane spell failure for casting this spell.

I guess it could work well for an Oracle with one of the Cha to AC revelations if his charisma is so high that he would just as soon wear Bracers of Armor instead of actual armor.

Overall, I feel fairly positive about Armor Master's Handbook.

Overall, not as awesome as Weapon Master's Handbook, but still liked it, certainly enough neat things for me to enjoy.

Why would Revenant Armor not work with being put to sleep? A sleeping character is unconscious and not paralyzed or held.

Yay! The shipping gods are kind. My PDF has arrived.

LOL! Shield Gauntlet Style allows you to use a gauntlet as if it were a buckler for all feats and abilities... and Upsetting Shield style allows you to use a buckler as if it were a light shield for all feats and abilities... take both along with Shield Smash and you can bull rush opponents with a backhand from your gauntlet. :]

Other nice things I saw on a quick skim through;
Armored Juggernaut - Can get up to DR 11/- with adamantine heavy armor.
Steel Headbutt - Appears to be an extra attack... not requiring an off-hand like armor spikes.
Defended Movement - +2 AC against AoO, but more importantly counts as both Dodge & Mobility. Two feat tax reduced to one.
Unhindering Shield - Retain buckler AC bonus while using the arm to attack or take other action. Likewise no penalty to weapon attacks with the buckler arm and treated as if no shield were present (e.g. Monk abilities that do not function with a shield can be used).

That said, no one has said anything about a feat or the like that let's you get the bonus to AC from two shields. That's really disappointing to me. :(

An additional source of AC (here: second shield) can easily break combat. For example another heavy shield +3 would turn a 30% hit chance into 5%. Sounds awesome, but becomes dull fast. Or might make the GM send monsters which hit better - and they will not just hit Mr Two Shields, but also the rest of the party.

Of course there are battles where AC doesn't matter that much. But there is a reason the usual power level for a feat is 'just' +1 AC. Or something like +2 if it's situational.

About the book: I guess I will check out the content on other pages, then decide whether to buy it. Nate Z (and probably others) already made a good point: Armor is a less interesting topic than weaponary, for most (?) of us.

So, to write a book perceived as positive as Weapon Master's HB, the authors would have a) to reach the same level of quality, then b) increase the level further to compensate the less interesting topic and c) increase it even further to compensate the raised expectations. Sounds a bit unrealistic, eh?

Why would Revenant Armor not work with being put to sleep? A sleeping character is unconscious and not paralyzed or held.

...no, a sleeping character is merely helpless, not unconscious. Both in real life and in the game.

Edit: @CBDunkerson: Remember you can't normally have two styles going simultaneously, though.

Huh, I can't find my post where I asked about iron tyrant and legate archetypes .-. Did I respond to a post that was removed in same post I asked about them? I can't remember anymore X-x;

It is difficult to see a good application of that Guardian Armor spell other than as an emergency save that solves an immediate problem at the cost of creating issues for the rest of the battle. I was hoping that a squishy character on watch could wear a suit of heavy armor and then cast that spell to teleport it onto the sleeping party tank, but the problem with that is that most characters who would otherwise rather not be wearing armor would risk arcane spell failure for casting this spell.

I guess it could work well for an Oracle with one of the Cha to AC revelations if his charisma is so high that he would just as soon wear Bracers of Armor instead of actual armor.

Right. I noted earlier that Guardian Armor is practically useless. I feel like it didn't go through proper editing, and I am sure the writers here can't say anything until the street date release but I do hope they offer insight into this spell. Cause it's a cool spell and one of my players wanted to make use of it for his fighter/cleric but upon reading it, it's going to cause more harm than good for the party.

We originally thought the spell teleported the armor onto the ally either for one attack or maybe an entire round, and then teleported back onto the caster. Basically a spell that "Grants your armor, its abilities and its armor bonus, to another character instantly to gain all its benefits before returning back to the owner." Which would be a sweet spell, he planned on (in emergency situations) send his +10 armor bonus from his +2 full plate to an ally in a dire situation and then it comes back.

But the spell is, instead, going to take off +10 AC from him, and grant it to an ally who is stuck with the armor check penalty, reduced speed, and even attack penalties if he is not proficient in heavy armor, along with arcane spell failure if its an arcane caster. And they would have to take it off and the caster don it back on to get the armor back.

Just...a bad spell.

The other spells are pretty decent and cool however.

Huh, I can't find my post where I asked about iron tyrant and legate archetypes .-. Did I respond to a post that was removed in same post I asked about them? I can't remember anymore X-x;

I suspect this to be the case. Give me a few minutes and I'll have the info for you. ^_^

Guardian armor is, and was always designed to be, a corner-case spell. It's primarily designed for divine preparation casters, who have access to it with no opportunity cost (unlike arcane casters or any spontaneous caster), and its inclusion on other class spell lists is for those few players who enjoy a tactical challenge.
It's a 1st level immediate action. For a cleric who could turn it into a cure light wounds, it's a very low cost to prepare one you assume you'll sacrifice to cure someone unless you absolutely need it. It's only useful if you have a reasonable expectation for an ally to need much more armor than you do. Occasionally (though not often) that happens. For example, a cleric or paladin might use it to armor a friend who is about to be executed, and expect to use instant armor to take care of their own AC need.
It's not designed to be general use, and it functions exactly as intended.

So the Yojimbo's designated squishy can benefit from Resolve? That's pretty neat. How does the Bodyguard class feature work? If it's similar to the feat we may finally have a tank class.

Yes, the yojimbo can use resolve on the person he is guarding - as well as greater resolve and true resolve when gained.

CorvusMask wrote:

Huh, I can't find my post where I asked about iron tyrant and legate archetypes .-. Did I respond to a post that was removed in same post I asked about them? I can't remember anymore X-x;

I suspect this to be the case. Give me a few minutes and I'll have the info for you. ^_^

I actually like some of the different Armour design elements. things like clockwork armour appeal to the minor steam tech fixation i have, and the ability to have a gun built into the Armour is a really cool idea(granted one i have seen a few times but that doesn't stop it being really cool.)

One thing I admit is that I am not the most knowledgeable pathfinder player. I haven't had the opportunity to play directly(most of my experience is running a Skull and Shackles adventure path.) Still that doesn't stop me liking this book and it opening up a world of possible Armour styles to incorporate in the future.

I am more than a bit fond of the balanced medium armor special ability. Enhancement bonuses to saves are surprisingly rare, and I can easily see trading out a few points of AC for a boost against an important Will save.

Arachnofiend wrote:

So the Yojimbo's designated squishy can benefit from Resolve? That's pretty neat. How does the Bodyguard class feature work? If it's similar to the feat we may finally have a tank class.

Yes, the yojimbo can use resolve on the person he is guarding - as well as greater resolve and true resolve when gained.

And yes, of course you have to be adjacent to someone to use abilities than can automatically remove up conditions, roll twice and take the best on s ave, remain conscious and stable when KO'd, and (at higher levels) automatically turn crits into normal hits and even prevent death.
Otherwise the ability would be amazingly unbalanced, instead of just extremely strong.

I have to disagree that allowing a larger range would make the ability overpowered, since I feel that limiting it to 1 party member already keeps it in check. The Yojimbo miiiight be a useful tool in a party with another melee character that sacrifices defense entirely to pump their offense to the limit, but I feel like I'd rather just have a DPR character that can handle their own defenses. The Yojimbo will probably be a great choice for high-optimization players to pick up in a low-optimization group, I suppose.

Also, regarding Unhindered Shield: do you still lose the shield bonus if you use that hand? A friend of mine was wondering if a 2-handed weapon user could use the feat to boost their AC a bit without losing their ability to 2-hand. That would actually be worth a feat.

The gauntlet style let you have shield AC from the gauntlet? Can you enhance the gauntlet to get more AC, and if so, does it allow an armor enchantment, or would it be based off weapon enhancement?

The buckler style just lets you bash? Does it give you any defensive things like DR, less chance to get crit, stop precision damage, more AC?

The DR Armor training is like a set amount of DR/- (depending on light medium or heavy armor) for every x levels of fighter you posses?

Unhindering Shield lets you still gain your shield bonus to AC even when using your shield hand for other purposes.

Shield Brace also allows you to to use a two-handed weapon from the polearms or spears weapon group while using a light, heavy, or tower shield, but you take its ACP penalty as a penalty on attack rolls while doing so.

Shield Gauntlet Style lets you get a +1 shield bonus to AC with a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet with the same usual stipulations as a buckler, while counting as Improved Unarmed Strike for for taking Deflect/Snatch Arrows. Shielded Gauntlet Attack lets you deal damage with a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet as if is was the sacred weapon of a warpriest of a level of your BAB - 4, as well as getting a bonus attack of opportunity that can only be used to attack with the gauntlet, disarm, or steal, even though you couldn't normally steal as an attack of opportunity, and you don't provoke while disarming/stealing in this manner. Shielded Gauntlet Master lets you not lose your shield bonus to AC when attacking with the gauntlet, and you add its enhancement bonus (as a weapon) as a shield AC bonus.

Upsetting Shield Style lets you use your buckler as if it were a light shield to shield bash with and gain the benefits of any feats that normally apply to light shields, and when you shield bash someone and deal damage, they take a -2 penalty on attack rolls against you until the start of your next turn. Upsetting Strike lets you make an attack of opportunity against someone who is currently taking that -2 penalty and misses you by 5 or more, but only once per round. Upsetting Vengeance makes the -2 penalty apply to attack rolls against any target, and triggers the attack of opportunity whenever they attack anyone and miss by 5 or more.

Unfortunately, as usual Paizo is very conservative with the damage reduction. It's DR 1/- in heavy armor only at first, at 7th level it's DR 2/- in heavy armor and DR 1/- in medium armor, at 11th level it's DR 3/- in heavy armor, DR 2/- in medium armor, and DR 1/- in light armor, and at 19th level, if you have the armor mastery class feature, they all increase by 5. However, they do stack with DR from adamantine armor, but not DR from anything else.

Shielded Gauntlet Master lets you add the enhancement bonus of your gauntlets to the shield bonus that they grant to your AC. Of course, that is the 3rd feat in that feat chain. Shielded Gauntlet Strike (the second feat in that chain) grants increased punching damage (as a the sacred weapon of a warpriest 4 levels lower).

Does Guardian Armor have a duration, or does it permanently resize your armor to your ally's specs? Or is it magic armor only.

Nate Z wrote:

That said, no one has said anything about a feat or the like that let's you get the bonus to AC from two shields. That's really disappointing to me. :(

An additional source of AC (here: second shield) can easily break combat. For example another heavy shield +3 would turn a 30% hit chance into 5%. Sounds awesome, but becomes dull fast. Or might make the GM send monsters which hit better - and they will not just hit Mr Two Shields, but also the rest of the party.

Of course there are battles where AC doesn't matter that much. But there is a reason the usual power level for a feat is 'just' +1 AC. Or something like +2 if it's situational.

While I'm a *huge* fan of dual-wielding shields, thanks to an old Green Ronin product that included a section on that, the *enhancement bonus* to the shields didn't stack in that version, IIRC, so you could get, at most, a +1 (light shield) or +2 (heavy shield) extra AC over sword-and-board. Granted, you could make one shield +3 and the other have properties like arrow catching or spell resistance, that you normally couldn't stack onto a single shield as cheaply, but dual-wielding two +5 heavy shields for a total +14 to AC wasn't the purpose of the style.

That seemed a decent balance compromise, and probably made more sense for 3.0, when there was a 'shield bonus' to AC, separate from the armor bonus from armor, unlike the 'stackable armor bonus from armor and shield, that doesn't stack with the armor bonus from a second shield or even more armor' of 3.5 and Pathfinder.

What happens if you have mithral breast plate with the DR armor mastery? Does that count as light or medium for the purposes of the ability? It seems very underwhelming, but at least it's an alright option for someone who doesn't need the additional abilities that it normally gives.

Is there an armor mastery that just affects ac, and how does that work?

More details on the armor styles? I heard there's one that rewards people for moving, or helps them move around.

Thanks for the info thus far everyone!

Owen, I think there might be a bit of a slip-up. Shield Focus, despite being referenced quite a bit, doesn't actually appear in the book. (Unless I missed it, which is possible.)

Feat Index:

It's also missing in the combat tricks section.

Does Guardian Armor have a duration, or does it permanently resize your armor to your ally's specs? Or is it magic armor only.

It does not resize the armor at all, The target must be the "same size and general shape as you".

And the spell is instantaneous -- once you cast it, your armor is on your designated ally and you are unarmored.

Owen, I think there might be a bit of a slip-up. Shield Focus, despite being referenced quite a bit, doesn't actually appear in the book. (Unless I missed it, which is possible.)

Feat Index:
** spoiler omitted **
I double-checked where it should show up in the shield section, and it's not there either. Since Armor Focus is in there, it's pretty obvious what it should do, but I thought I'd mention it.

Shield Focus is from the Core Rulebook. ^_^

QuidEst wrote:

Owen, I think there might be a bit of a slip-up. Shield Focus, despite being referenced quite a bit, doesn't actually appear in the book. (Unless I missed it, which is possible.)

Feat Index:
** spoiler omitted **
I double-checked where it should show up in the shield section, and it's not there either. Since Armor Focus is in there, it's pretty obvious what it should do, but I thought I'd mention it.

Shield Focus is from the Advanced Player's Guide. ^_^

Ooooh… Thanks! That makes a lot more sense. XD

Shield Brace - Use a 2-handed polearm/spear while using a shield.

Does this mean that we can finally make proper spear & shield fighters?

Kalindlara wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Owen, I think there might be a bit of a slip-up. Shield Focus, despite being referenced quite a bit, doesn't actually appear in the book. (Unless I missed it, which is possible.)

Feat Index:
** spoiler omitted **
I double-checked where it should show up in the shield section, and it's not there either. Since Armor Focus is in there, it's pretty obvious what it should do, but I thought I'd mention it.

Shield Focus is from the Advanced Player's Guide. ^_^

Ooooh… Thanks! That makes a lot more sense. XD

Sorry... I forgot they put new feats in the Core Rulebook. Oops. ^_^

Skeld, PDF Prophet wrote:

Shield Brace - Use a 2-handed polearm/spear while using a shield.

Does this mean that we can finally make proper spear & shield fighters?

Yes! Super excited for this feat. ^_^

What happens if you have mithral breast plate with the DR armor mastery? Does that count as light or medium for the purposes of the ability? It seems very underwhelming, but at least it's an alright option for someone who doesn't need the additional abilities that it normally gives.

Probably depends on how your DM rules it, I guess. Mithral says, "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations." So, it's lighter than normal, so you'd think you'd get Medium, but says for the purpose of movement and other limitations, which means it might still count where it's not a limitation, but rather favorable. I can see it being argued either way.

Is there an armor mastery that just affects ac, and how does that work?

Yes. It's called Armor Specialization, and lets you add +1/4 your fighter level to your armor's AC bonus, maximum +3 for light, +4 for medium, and +5 for heavy. It only applies to one specific kind of armor, though, and it doesn't count as being higher for various rules interactions.

More details on the armor styles? I heard there's one that rewards people for moving, or helps them move around.

Bulette Charge Style is for heavy armor, and gives you a +4 bonus on overrun attempts (magic abilities and materials that reduce ACP reduce this bonus...presumably not feats/traits or masterwork since those are nonmagical nor special materials). Bulette Leap lets you add your Strength in addition to your Dexterity on Acrobatics checks to jump and you can attempt multiple overrun attempts with a penalty for each attempt after the first. Bulette Rampage lets you essentially trample enemies you overrun, dealing a certain amount of damage boosted by your armor bonus to AC and your Strength.

Spring-Heeled Style is for light armor, and gives you a +2 bonus to attack rolls when you move more than 10 feet as a move action, and lets you get your bonus from Mobility against attacks of opportunity provoked by loading or firing a ranged weapon. Spring-Heeled Sprint lets you move twice your normal speed when using Spring Attack or Shot on the Run. Spring-Heeled Reaping lets you, when using Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, make two attacks at your full BAB at any point during your movement, and neither of your targets get an attack of opportunity due to that movement.

Swift Iron Style is for medium armor, and reduces your ACP by 1 and makes your armor's Max Dex bonus 1 higher. Swift Refuge allows you to reduce damage from weapons, unarmed attacks, and natural attacks 1/day, with an additional use at BAB +8 and BAB +16. Swift Sprint makes it so that when you run, charge, or double-move, your armor doesn't reduce your speed.

For all of these styles, someone with armor training can use them with any armor instead of only heavy/medium/light, though the bonus from Bulette Style is reduced for lighter armors.

I didn't know if it was specific on the issue of mithral and stuff, but generally the armor remains what it's listed under. Example is if you don't have medium armor proficiency, then you'll suffer the armor check penalty even if your armor is mithral.

I have mixed feelings, but I do have a society character that likes to shield bash, wear heavy armor, and will soon take the fighter archetype levels to overrun, so maybe it might work out.

Style feats have big taxing prereqs, like the traditional combat expertise and improved unarmed strike?

Best thing I read so far is the armor specialization, which I figure you can take in place of your normal armor training.

Is there a feat you can take to get a armor mastery ability or whatever they're called? I imagine you normally take one of the abilities in place of when your class would normally get armor training, but I believe weapon master handbook had a feat that let you every 5 levels or bab be able to take the feat and select an ability.

Question for you, Mr. Stephens.

The new magus archetype, armored battlemage, gets the ability to add armor abilities to his armor. One of these is balanced, from Ultimate Equipment. However, this book also includes a different armor ability called balanced.

The words written are clear, but I'm curious. Was this intentional? Were they intended to get access to the balanced special ability from this book? (I'm guessing two different freelancers worked on the sections, so probably not.)

Just curious. Thank you! ^_^

I didn't know if it was specific on the issue of mithral and stuff, but generally the armor remains what it's listed under. Example is if you don't have medium armor proficiency, then you'll suffer the armor check penalty even if your armor is mithral.

I believe there's an FAQ somewhere about this, but I can't remember off the top of my head which way it goes. I think the armor acts as light for character abilities (like feats and class features) but stays medium for enhancements and such (like the brawling ability).

Is there a feat you can take to get a armor mastery ability or whatever they're called? I imagine you normally take one of the abilities in place of when your class would normally get armor training, but I believe weapon master handbook had a feat that let you every 5 levels or bab be able to take the feat and select an ability.

There sure is! Available once every three levels, even. ^_^

Spring-Heeled Style only gives the attack roll bonus on a move action? Then... it's completely worthless while using the other two feats. Am I understanding that right?

Spring-Heeled Style only gives the attack roll bonus on a move action? Then... it's completely worthless while using the other two feats. Am I understanding that right?

You've got it right. I was wondering about that decision myself.

Yikes. Sounds like we have a new competitor for ugliest feat tax. Spring-Heeled Reaping seems like it would actually be pretty good if you really want to play a hyper-mobile character but the feat cost of going all the way up the Spring-Heeled Style chain and all the way up the Spring Attack chain makes it functionally impossible to utilize.