Pathfinder Player Companion: Armor Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

Yikes. Sounds like we have a new competitor for ugliest feat tax. Spring-Heeled Reaping seems like it would actually be pretty good if you really want to play a hyper-mobile character but the feat cost of going all the way up the Spring-Heeled Style chain and all the way up the Spring Attack chain makes it functionally impossible to utilize.

Note that there is a feat in here that counts as both Dodge and Mobility. It requires Shield Focus, but characters with armor training can ignore that requirement.

Still... not 100% ideal.

Another couple of questions here for those with the PDF:

Just who are these 'Kortos Cavalry' and 'Horse Tribes' that apparently get mentioned in the 'Armor Masters of the Inner Sea' section?

And, just what is the Aldori Dueling Armor like? And it sounds odd for it to be a medium armor, as I always thought that the Aldori Swordlords were supposed to be more like swashbucklers and used light armor.

Reading on here that the style requires a move action specifically for movement makes me sad with thinking about the Outslug style giving the ability to 10 ft step. My brain lit up when I read that it was 10 ft. then I read "as a move action" which I think is unfortunate.

What is the feat called to access the alternate armor training features?

What is the feat called to access the alternate armor training features?

I for some reason read over the very first feat on the list provide. Doh! Thanks.

Armor focus and improved armor focus I imagine just give you +1 to ac each feat when wearing any armor?

Armor trick is just one thing, or are there multiple specific tricks to pick, like in weapon masters handbook? Can anyone provide some details on the tricks?

I read through the thread and found a review to get some answers I just asked.

Light, medium armor tricks I'd love to know more about if someone wouldn't mind.

I read through the thread and found a review to get some answers I just asked.

Light, medium armor tricks I'd love to know more about if someone wouldn't mind.

Too busy to give the full breakdown, but:

Sorry about the brevity. ^_^

I appreciate whatever I can get, and especially for posting when you're busy. I'd love more detail, but I don't expect anyone to go out of their way to do it.

I usually go for a medium armor with mithral, so it's bugging me on how certain things in this book would work. An faq was mentioned before, so I'm going to do some research.

If anyone could give a better breakdown of the light and medium tricks, that would be great. Also, I read there were things specific to armor materials. Is there one for mithral, and is it just some one a day thing?

First: The mithral FAQ.

There are a few things in the book that explicitly specify that you can't apply/use them with armor that is considered lighter due to magic or materials. It's all rather confusing. ^_^

Yes, indeed it is rather confusing. Like you'd want it to count as the heavier in some cases, and lighter in others. Maybe one of the designers can point out how they intended things like mithral to work with advanced armor training and armor tricks.

A few uses a day are typically uninteresting for me, and limiting things to something so specific like a material and a certain kind of school of magic don't really make me interested too. Again, thanks for posting!

Someone got in touch with me, and I got to hear about the tricks. They were deeply disappointing ):

Style feats have big taxing prereqs, like the traditional combat expertise and improved unarmed strike?

Bulette Charge Style only requires 13 Strength, proficiency with heavy armor, and access to Improved Overrun and Power Attack. Its upgrades require 15 Strength, but no other feats beyond the Bulette feats themselves.

Spring-Heeled Style requires 13 Dexterity, proficiency with light armor, BAB +4, and access to Dodge, Mobility, and either Spring Attack or Shot on the Run. Spring-Heeled Sprint requires 15 Dexterity and +7 BAB, while Spring-Heeled Reaping requires 17 Dexterity and +11 BAB.

Swift Iron Style only requires 13 Strength, 13 Dexterity, and proficiency with medium armor. The same is true of its upgrades.

Mobile Bulwark Style requires 13 Strength, proficiency with tower shields, +1 BAB, and Shield Focus. Mobile Fortress requires 15 Strength and +4 BAB. Mobile Stronghold requires 17 Strength, and +7 BAB.

Shield Gauntlet Style requires proficiency with bucklers and small shields, and Weapon Focus (gauntlets or spiked gauntlets). The same is true of its upgrades.

Upsetting Shield Style only requires 13 Dexterity and proficiency with bucklers. Upsetting Strike requires 15 Dexterity, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Shield Bash. Oddly, Upsetting Vengeance only requires 13 Dexterity, but doesn't require anything else.

Vanguard Style requires proficiency with light or heavy shields, Bodyguard, and Combat Reflexes. Vanguard Ward is the same, but Vanguard Hustle requires Combat Patrol and Saving Shield.

Just who are these 'Kortos Cavalry' and 'Horse Tribes' that apparently get mentioned in the 'Armor Masters of the Inner Sea' section?

Kortos Cavalry are Absalom's only mounted troops, who protect the hinterlands as well as the Westgate District.

The Horse Tribes are the nomads of Karazh (in Casmaron).

And, just what is the Aldori Dueling Armor like? And it sounds odd for it to be a medium armor, as I always thought that the Aldori Swordlords were supposed to be more like swashbucklers and used light armor.

They're armored coats that grant a bonus on initiative checks and attacks of opportunity with an aldori dueling sword, and allows the wearer to parry an attack once per day. Interestingly, there's a trait in this book that allows you to treat an armored coat as if it were light armor (though you still need medium armor proficiency to avoid ACP to attacks and such).

This sounds like a pretty dire product. Perhaps the Inner Sea Faiths-induced delay should have been longer.

I thought it was pretty good, myself. ^_^

Indeed, as I said, I think it's pretty nice...I think people just had absurdly high expectations from Weapon Master's Handbook. There are certainly some annoying bits - like Spring-Heeled Style not working with Shot on the Run/Spring Attack - but there's certainly a decent bit of material worth using that can allow some new things and make some things a bit more viable, which is more than I can say about some products.

Is there anything in this that makes heavy-armor-wearing Swashbucklers, Brawlers, etc. more viable?

How are the combat tricks (stamina) options?

Any new mobility options for heavy armor wearers? (Doesn't have to be exclusive).

I'm obviosly missing something, what's the issue with the Spring Heeled Jack chain of feats?

I'm obviously missing something, what's the issue with the Spring Heeled Jack chain of feats?

The problem is, Spring-Heeled Style requires you to have either Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but only provides any benefit to someone moving 10 feet or more as a move action, while Spring Attack and Shot on the Run are both full-round actions. Furthermore, Spring-Heeled Sprint and Spring-Heeled Reaping only function when you're using Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, so you can't actually get the benefits from Spring-Heeled Style while using its upgrades, much less its prerequisites. So, basically, most of the time you will only use Spring-Heeled Style to gain the benefits of the other feats, barring maybe a few corner cases. Personally, I would probably houserule it so that it does function with Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but as written it doesn't work that way.

*nods*

Whirlwind Attack has the same problem.

Guardian Armor
-- can you only cast it on allies?
-- also I am thinking I'll be casting this on some one needing my armor. Usually is they are not wearing armor like mine it is for a reason (Eveyone Min/Maxes) For this reason the person I give the armor to (Rogue or even worse wizard) will most likely not do too well in my armor. (This is more for the people in the forum.) How can I get the armor off quick. I'm thinking "Imbue with Spell Ability" and give them Guardian Armor but that is 2 1st & 1 4th for if effect and takes 10 prep work. Are there any other ideas?

Cat-thulhu wrote:

I'm obviously missing something, what's the issue with the Spring Heeled Jack chain of feats?

The problem is, Spring-Heeled Style requires you to have either Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but only provides any benefit to someone moving 10 feet or more as a move action, while Spring Attack and Shot on the Run are both full-round actions. Furthermore, Spring-Heeled Sprint and Spring-Heeled Reaping only function when you're using Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, so you can't actually get the benefits from Spring-Heeled Style while using its upgrades, much less its prerequisites. So, basically, most of the time you will only use Spring-Heeled Style to gain the benefits of the other feats, barring maybe a few corner cases. Personally, I would probably houserule it so that it does function with Spring Attack or Shot on the Run, but as written it doesn't work that way.

Hmm, actually does the text explicitly say this or "as part of a live action"?

Either way just going off what I can see since I don't have the book it could apply to SA and SotR since they still contain move actions as part of the Full Action.

It's explicitly stated.

Hmm, there's moving as part of an action, and then there's the Move type of actions. Might just be poor wording?

I expect that could be corrected soon. Doesn't seem like the intent of the feat.

Guardian Armor

-- can you only cast it on allies?

Effectively, yes. You can only cast it on a willing target. If an enemy is a willing target for this spell, he probably knows something that you don't.

Hmm, there's moving as part of an action, and then there's the Move type of actions. Might just be poor wording?

It specifically states, "as a move action to move", so probably not, since both types are mentioned.

Souphin wrote:

Guardian Armor

-- can you only cast it on allies?

Effectively, yes. You can only cast it on a willing target. If an enemy is a willing target for this spell, he probably knows something that you don't.

Alternatively, they could be unconscious, and thus automatically considered willing. I suppose it could be an oddball way to force someone whose class is hindered by armor into armor after knocking them out if you're in a hurry (such as arcane spell failure, noqual armor for any spellcaster, a monk in armor, a druid in metal armor, and other such), but since you've already got them knocked out, that's also a very niche tactic.

@Luthorne, Dang, that's annoying.

I am rather disappointed that they gave the Guardian Armor spell a somatic component. Just think how useful it would have been to have the party wizard keep watch in the party tank's plate mail. When their camp is attacked, he could then cast that spell to move the armor from himself to the party tank, who then does not have to either spend time putting on armor hastily or do without armor for that fight.

As it is, he could still try that tactic, but he would run a significant chance of having the spell fail.

I am rather disappointed that they gave the Guardian Armor spell a somatic component. Just think how useful it would have been to have the party wizard keep watch in the party tank's plate mail. When their camp is attacked, he could then cast that spell to move the armor from himself to the party tank, who then does not have to either spend time putting on armor hastily or do without armor for that fight.

As it is, he could still try that tactic, but he would run a significant chance of having the spell fail.

Or prepare a Still Guardian Armor. That's only a 2nd level spell...

David knott 242 wrote:

I am rather disappointed that they gave the Guardian Armor spell a somatic component. Just think how useful it would have been to have the party wizard keep watch in the party tank's plate mail. When their camp is attacked, he could then cast that spell to move the armor from himself to the party tank, who then does not have to either spend time putting on armor hastily or do without armor for that fight.

As it is, he could still try that tactic, but he would run a significant chance of having the spell fail.

Or prepare a Still Guardian Armor. That's only a 2nd level spell...

Psychic Bloodline Sorcerer. No somatic components at all.

I will definitely have to keep those options in mind for some future character(s).

Are there any new alternatives to Shield Slam for making shield bashing more desirable (especially for those whose GMs rule that the bull rush is not optional in Shield Slam)?

It sounds like that gauntlet style could be a good pickup for Avenger Vigilantes who like to punch dudes.

It sounds like that gauntlet style could be a good pickup for Avenger Vigilantes who like to punch dudes.

Agreed. Seems like my vigilante won't have to invest in brawling armor anymore if I go that route instead of purely unarmed.

Are there any new alternatives to Shield Slam for making shield bashing more desirable (especially for those whose GMs rule that the bull rush is not optional in Shield Slam)?

Yes. There are options for a free trip at -5 or inflicting a -2 to AC on a successful bash.

There are also options for making a Tower Shield useful that can be used by anyone, not just that one fighter archetype.

Am I correct in interpreting that the Advanced Armor Training option Armored Juggernaut would actually do nothing for an Armor Master Fighter? That'll make one of my players very sad since it looks like they can't be stacked.

Am I correct in interpreting that the Advanced Armor Training option Armored Juggernaut would actually do nothing for an Armor Master Fighter? That'll make one of my players very sad since it looks like they can't be stacked.

Correct, they would not stack.

Yeah that's how I interpreted, just kinda sad that a really nice armor focused option doesn't work with an armor focused archetype to make a hyper focused armor character. Since armor is kinda lackluster mid-late game.

edit: minus a few things where I feel stacking should have been relaxed to let a character who dedicates themselves to a rather sub-optimal route become mega badass at it this book has been rather ok. It's got some cool things in here I know my table will definitely use, but I'm getting pretty tired of seeing "This DR option doesn't stack with any similar DR thing ever!" just feels unnecessary to prevent nice things from becoming nicer.

Could anyone share what the prerequisites of Shield Brace are?

Could anyone share what the prerequisites of Shield Brace are?

Prerequisites: Shield Focus (or armor training); base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.

BardWannabe wrote:

Are there any new alternatives to Shield Slam for making shield bashing more desirable (especially for those whose GMs rule that the bull rush is not optional in Shield Slam)?

Yes. There are options for a free trip at -5 or inflicting a -2 to AC on a successful bash.

There are also options for making a Tower Shield useful that can be used by anyone, not just that one fighter archetype.

What, pray tell, are these useful Tower Shield options and what do they do? I know there's the Mobile Bulwark Style line (which I'd also like details for), but I'm curious about anything else for tower shields.

Imbicatus wrote:

BardWannabe wrote:

Are there any new alternatives to Shield Slam for making shield bashing more desirable (especially for those whose GMs rule that the bull rush is not optional in Shield Slam)?

Yes. There are options for a free trip at -5 or inflicting a -2 to AC on a successful bash.

There are also options for making a Tower Shield useful that can be used by anyone, not just that one fighter archetype.

What, pray tell, are these useful Tower Shield options and what do they do? I know there's the Mobile Bulwark Style line (which I'd also like details for), but I'm curious about anything else for tower shields.

Well, Shield Brace, as noted, allows you to wield a tower shield (or a light or heavy shield) while wielding a two-handed polearm or spear. But the main one is probably Tower Shield Specialist, which requires Shield Focus, BAB +11, or fighter level 8th, and reduces the ACP for tower shields by -3 as well as allowing armor training to modify their ACP and maximum Dexterity as if they were armor. There's also a +1 Shield Special Ability that allows you to transform the shield in question between buckler, light shield, heavy shield, and tower shield, so long as the chosen shield is one you're proficient with.

What do the mental focus and spirit-bonded armour qualities do?

What do the mental focus and spirit-bonded armour qualities do?

Mental focus grants you a +2 enhancement bonus on concentration checks. If you have the mental focus occultist class feature, you can get an extra point of mental focus by spending an hour attuning yourself to the armor; lose the armor, lose the point of mental focus.

Spirit-bonded gives you a +1 untyped bonus on saves against psychic spells and effects from incorporeal creatures. If you have the spirit bonus medium class feature, it increases by 1.

Is the Artful Dodge feat in this book the same as the one from Melee Tactics Toolbox? (I'm nervous about reprints ever since they changed Fencing Grace.)

BardWannabe wrote:

Are there any new alternatives to Shield Slam for making shield bashing more desirable (especially for those whose GMs rule that the bull rush is not optional in Shield Slam)?

Yes. There are options for a free trip at -5 or inflicting a -2 to AC on a successful bash.

I finally got my PDF tonight and I see that the feats you were referring to where Stumbling Bash and Toppling Bash. They are the type of thing I was hoping to see. Unfortunately they require Shield Focus, making them more expensive to get to than Shield Slam for someone trying to make a Two Weapon Fighter. Alas, I think the cost will be too high for my Cavalier. :(

Is the Artful Dodge feat in this book the same as the one from Melee Tactics Toolbox? (I'm nervous about reprints ever since they changed Fencing Grace.)

Artful Dodge wasn't reprinted in this book. It did receive a Combat Stamina trick, though; I'm guessing that's the source of the confusion.

Your Dex Int-based prerequisites are safe... for now. ^_^

Alex Mack wrote:

Could anyone share what the prerequisites of Shield Brace are?

Prerequisites: Shield Focus (or armor training); base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.

Thank you Imbicatus. Gotta say that's one hell of a feat...both thematically very appropriate and very strong mechanically considering that Darkwood easily negates ACP of heavy shields.

Samuari with NoDachi and Shield should be awesome...

Gisher wrote:

Is the Artful Dodge feat in this book the same as the one from Melee Tactics Toolbox? (I'm nervous about reprints ever since they changed Fencing Grace.)

Artful Dodge wasn't reprinted in this book. It did receive a Combat Stamina trick, though; I'm guessing that's the source of the confusion.

Thanks! An earlier post listed it without that detail.

Your Dex Int-based prerequisites are safe... for now. ^_^

Cue evil laugh. ;)