Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant Shores (PFRPG)

The more I get to know about this setting the better! If I have to get it all in little tidbits, so be it. Either way, I buy everything you all put out, so keep it coming! Looking forward to anything you put out on the rest of the world! AKA... thanks Paizo for a setting I adore and enjoy reading about!

Funny enough, I was just talking to TOZ about how we never see anything outside of the Inner Sea Region, baring minor exceptions in Adventure paths. First he proves me wrong in a PFS scenario, and now I stumble across this... Maybe I should voice my woes more often :-P

In any case, very interested in what is going to be said about Arcadia and Vudra! It'll be good to know more about my Vudrani Wizard's nation of origin!

Has Goka ever been covered in detail? That would be a prime gateway city/port to the Dragon Empires.

I wonder if two or more of these cities is found on the same continent.

About DANG time!!! This is a definite purchase.

Honestly, my big hope is that this is the start of a trend away from additional rules (rules bloat is already approaching DnD levels) and towards fleshing out the Golarion setting more.

As it stands now, Golarion's setting is pretty much like Mystarra's was - one well explored postage stamp in a larger world. The trouble with Mystarra was that they didn't give out information in any systematic method and when they expanded past the 'known world' it was in small tidbits that were never expanded on.

And then they went and created a second campaign world, when they hadn't even begun to explore most of the first. While interesting, it all seemed very "spur of the moment".

Hopefully, Paizo can look back at that setting and learn from it so that they can produce products in a more logical and intuitive order.

DragoDorn wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I wonder if this product might be hint of what kind of AP we will be getting after Hell's Rebels.

We'll be revealing the next AP at Paizocon... but to manage expectations...

No. Distant Shores is NOT a hint about the next AP.

Is it a hint about the adventure path after that?

No.

If folks really really like what we do with Distant Shores... then we might just start doing more with those Distant Shores. Sort of how the result of folks' approval and interest in Distant Worlds resulted in us having an increased presence of outer space stuff in adventure paths like Reign of Winter and Iron Gods.

Sorry to hear that as i had hoped for a new AP out of the Inner Sea Region. Perhaps with the upcoming Occult Adventures we get to see some more of Castrovel as Vudra seems to be out of the race for next year. As one can see here there seems to be quite the demand for further exploration of Golarion or it´s neighbors.

That said i´m really looking forward to this book, finally getting some information about Southern Garund, Arcadia and Vudra.
Have to say i really like the picture of Kintargo in the Blog-Post about the fall 2015 releases so i hope the cities in this book get equally evocative pictures.

Actually, I'm all for letting new rules like Occult Adventures sink in for a year before an AP focuses on them like a Vudra AP would. It will give writers, players and GMs a chance to understand how to use the new rules before a major undertaking with them is begun.

Honestly, my big hope is that this is the start of a trend away from additional rules (rules bloat is already approaching DnD levels) and towards fleshing out the Golarion setting more.

That is kind of what the Campaign setting line has been doing this entire time (X revisted, Book of the X, nation/city books, etc. Rules "bloat" has mostly been mostly a Player Companion and Hardcover Rule book thing.

We've said it before, but one thing about expanding the setting in small, bite-sized chunks rather than huge books covering whole continents is that you get to pour all your energy and creativity into really fleshing out a small section of the world. And then you do it again. And again. Over time, the patchwork becomes a whole, and that whole is WAY more interesting and flavorful because you as the author had the chance to recharge, to consider the interactions of previous installments, to see what people liked, etc. That's actually how we started out building Golarion, back when the Inner Sea was mostly just names on a map and brief paragraphs of info supplemented by gazetteers in the back of Pathfinder, and I think it's one of our artistic choices that I'm most proud of. Biting off too much at a time ends up with too little butter spread over too much bread.

So yeah, I'm really excited about this project, and hope that readers feel the same way. :)

Actually, I'm all for letting new rules like Occult Adventures sink in for a year before an AP focuses on them like a Vudra AP would. It will give writers, players and GMs a chance to understand how to use the new rules before a major undertaking with them is begun.

There's a fairly widespread belief that the lack of such contributed to the issues experienced by many gaming groups at the mid and high end of Wrath of the Righteous. I believe this perception extends even to Mr Jacobs himself.

JoelF847 wrote:

Actually, I'm all for letting new rules like Occult Adventures sink in for a year before an AP focuses on them like a Vudra AP would. It will give writers, players and GMs a chance to understand how to use the new rules before a major undertaking with them is begun.

There's a fairly widespread belief that the lack of such contributed to the issues experienced by many gaming groups at the mid and high end of Wrath of the Righteous. I believe this perception extends even to Mr Jacobs himself.

The ways in which Occult Adventures fundamentally changes the nature of how the game plays is NOTHING compared to Mythic Adventures, which essentially changes the genre of the game from fantasy to superhero.

The problem with bite sized chunks is there gone in one bite and you have to wait years and years for the next one. Besides I am getting less and less interesting in hardcover rule books(other then bestiaries) and more interesting in hardcover campaign setting books. Also it is getting too expensive to keep buying softcover books and I have been getting disappointed with a lot of those in the last couple of years.

Bite sized chunks also run the risk of a patchwork quilt created by a dozen different people at a dozen different times for a dozen different contexts, coming off poorly as a whole. In certain senses a degree of not-fitting-together can make a setting feel organic and non-cliched, but at the same time I'm concerned about the risk to cohesiveness. I will stay in my seat and not panic because of proven track record for quality worldcrafting, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried at all.

And I also wholeheartedly second Dragon78's comment about one bite sized chunk, wait two years, second bite sized chunk, wait three years... I can appreciate a sensible degree of caution but I would also really appreciate getting a little bit more speed.

I'm also a little concerned about this format being the right way to gauge interest. I mean, what am I going to do with one Arcadian city, really, without knowing anything else about the continent? I can't set an adventure there with just one city, without knowing the races, the cultures, the deities, the languages, the geography. As a DM, I need information in a top-down fashion; I need the broad strokes to start things off. Giving me one city without knowing anything else about the continent is like giving me the writeup for an Oracle curse two years before Advanced Player's Guide came out. It's just a disconnected bit and I don't know how to play with it.

But, armchair quarterbacking. I'll just go sit in a corner and chew my nails with a furrowed brow.

Agreed. The patchwork problem is genuine. We saw it a lot in Mystara where we put things off until the appropriate Gazeteer came out and would realize that, in retrospect, things would have happened differently if sourcebooks came out in an order different than they did.

There's a similar problem with old APs - Kingmaker is the biggest one to experience this. It came out before Numinera and we still don't know whats opposite Varnhold. I'm in the middle of GMming a module that explores that area, based on a map and history of my own choosing...

Ideally, where possible, Avistan should degrade into wildlands, before building back up into the civilizations of Casmaron and Garund. I would be disappointed, for example, to find a humongous empire smack dab to the east of Galt, but would be okay with the ruins of an empire, or the place overrun with monstrous humanoids, etc...

So, while patchworking can lead to problems, many of those can be mitigated by having a high level design document that paints whole continents in broad brush strokes. Then, the patchworking is more about fleshing out than starting from scratch.

I´m also against too much "patchworking", sorry.

It would be better to roughly develope one continent in a brainstorming session and subdivide the different parts among 2 or 3 creators each.

Also i think we need to have all parts of Avistan (and Garund) before exploring another continent completely.

But as we seem to get a new Campaign Setting for a new country every 3 to 5 month Paizo is on a good way to do that.

The good thing about this title being called "Distant Shores Gazetteer" is that it will probably only contain cities at the edge/sea of a realm and that fact limits the amount of knowledge needed to run an adventure there.

And i am excited too, James. :-)

The good thing about this title being called "Distant Shores Gazetteer" is that it will probably only contain cities at the edge/sea of a realm and that fact limits the amount of knowledge needed to run an adventure there.

There's also the added bonus that, if they have a much better idea a year or two from now for one of these areas, the single city described might prove to be an outlier, and end up not being nearly as 'representative' as previously expected, sort of like someone landing at Sargava, and basing their expectations of what the rest of the Mwangi Expanse is like on that one city.

Or landing at Kaer Maga after a teleport mishap, and basing your expectations of the rest of Varisia on a city where troll entrail-diviners might not be the strangest sight you'll see.

Limiting our initial sneak peek to a single city allows for some tweaking, later, if an even better idea comes along.

When it comes to developing a game or game world, there is no company I trust more than Paizo. No one else at all. They know what they are doing.
I am looking forward to this no matter how it is done.

I guess I'll just have to buy 10,000 copies of Distant Shores to show support. But where to put them. :(

You could buy 15,000 PDF copies instead. Storage problem solved.

When it comes to developing a game or game world, there is no company I trust more than Paizo. No one else at all. They know what they are doing.

I am looking forward to this no matter how it is done.

While I agree that Paizo is doing well with Golarion, my first reaction to this post was "You're not familiar with Kèthíra, are you?" :-)

Samy wrote:

I guess I'll just have to buy 10,000 copies of Distant Shores to show support. But where to put them. :(

You could buy 15,000 PDF copies instead. Storage problem solved.

Turns out you can only put a maximum of 99 copies in cart. :(

DeciusNero wrote:

And no Casmeron? Or is that under the Vudra entry?

The non-final product description says 6 global regions, and the blurb lists 4. Hoping Greater Casmaron (No Kaladay or Iobaria please, Give us the *REAL* Casmaron, we need the Padishah Empire of Kelesh like a gnome needs adventure!) makes one of the last two slots.

I completely agree! We need the Empire of Great Kelesh. Genies and scimitars. We need more genies and scimitars.

Is there any chance that Sarusan, Tian Xia, or Azlant will get some love in this book?

I may be mistaken but I thought I heard that Sarusan is specifically being left as a blank for the nonce. Tian Xia would seem to make a lot of sense for Distant Shores as the Orient was a very very very significant trading partner during the Age of Sail. As for Azlant, I don't know much about it but I thought it's been destroyed.

Damon Griffin wrote:

Samy wrote:

I guess I'll just have to buy 10,000 copies of Distant Shores to show support. But where to put them. :(

You could buy 15,000 PDF copies instead. Storage problem solved.

Turns out you can only put a maximum of 99 copies in cart. :(

Really? That seems pretty short sighted and negative by the folks at Pazio...I mean they should expect people to want to order over 99 of any of their books. ;)

Well a city in Azlant could be gillmen based, a colony of some other race, or a city from Azlant's past;)

I remember hearing something like that about Sarusan, doesn't mean I can't hope for something from place.

Tian Xia is the most likely of the three but still not a sure thing.

Samy wrote:

Damon Griffin wrote:

Samy wrote:

I guess I'll just have to buy 10,000 copies of Distant Shores to show support. But where to put them. :(

You could buy 15,000 PDF copies instead. Storage problem solved.

Turns out you can only put a maximum of 99 copies in cart. :(

Really? That seems pretty short sighted and negative by the folks at Pazio...I mean they should expect people to want to order over 99 of any of their books. ;)

I imagine that's a relic of the shopping cart only allowing 99 copies of *physical* product. :)

I wonder if two or more of these cities is found on the same continent.

Yes, as Vudra and Iblydos are both in Casmaron.

So Crystal is doing the Southern Garund one, Daigle is writing Arcadia, Do we know who is writing the Vudra and Iblydos cities?

And is Sutter actually writing a city?

And is Sutter actually writing a city?

Ooh. Fingers (tentacles, whatEV) crossed for something that makes Kaer Maga seem like the Juniors Chamber of Commerce.

Justin Franklin wrote:

And is Sutter actually writing a city?

Ooh. Fingers (tentacles, whatEV) crossed for something that makes Kaer Maga seem like the Juniors Chamber of Commerce.

Well if he is I have a theory that it is set in the unnamed Kazakhstan analogue, but that is just a guess.

October seems so far away right now.

Bite sized chunks also run the risk of a patchwork quilt created by a dozen different people at a dozen different times for a dozen different contexts, coming off poorly as a whole. In certain senses a degree of not-fitting-together can make a setting feel organic and non-cliched, but at the same time I'm concerned about the risk to cohesiveness. I will stay in my seat and not panic because of proven track record for quality worldcrafting, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried at all.

And I also wholeheartedly second Dragon78's comment about one bite sized chunk, wait two years, second bite sized chunk, wait three years... I can appreciate a sensible degree of caution but I would also really appreciate getting a little bit more speed.

I'm also a little concerned about this format being the right way to gauge interest. I mean, what am I going to do with one Arcadian city, really, without knowing anything else about the continent? I can't set an adventure there with just one city, without knowing the races, the cultures, the deities, the languages, the geography. As a DM, I need information in a top-down fashion; I need the broad strokes to start things off. Giving me one city without knowing anything else about the continent is like giving me the writeup for an Oracle curse two years before Advanced Player's Guide came out. It's just a disconnected bit and I don't know how to play with it.

But, armchair quarterbacking. I'll just go sit in a corner and chew my nails with a furrowed brow.

I think there is a rough framework hashed out for all the continents...names and bits and pieces here and there may change, but there is some idea of what countries and races are probably involved.

I think we are getting the Distant Shores book as a stepstone to later continent books. James Jacobs has stated that the Tian Xia gazeteer was actually one of the most difficult books they ever had to write, as they essentially had to invent an entire new setting from scratch, in a short period of time, while at the same time making sure they hit the expected themes of the land at the same time as respecting the cultures they were mining for inspiration. I have to imagine Arcadia and southern Garund are much worse, since those places have even less a footprint in fantasy fiction and gaming to draw from, and are also less well known to the public.

Yeah but there already more to go on about Arcadia and Garund then there is with Sarusan. I think every continent at least deserves a 64 page softcover book if not a hardcover book. It has been almost 6 years since pathfinder started, I say it is about time to expand to places beyond the Inner Sea.

Yeah but there already more to go on about Arcadia and Garund then there is with Sarusan. I think every continent at least deserves a 64 page softcover book if not a hardcover book. It has been almost 6 years since pathfinder started, I say it is about time to expand to places beyond the Inner Sea.

No matter what they show us beyond Avistan and Garund, the Inner Sea will always be where my role-playing heart resides. It sounds cheesy, but it has felt the closest to "home" for my rpg character than any other rpg world (and that is saying something! I loved FR.). The diversity in Avistan alone is astounding to me. Vikings, Russian folklore, Ice Age animal realm with barbarians, French Revolution, Devil ruled empire, former empire striving to retain glory, successful democratic society trying to spread freedom (cannot recall when that has been done in an rpg world before), Turk-like culture encroaching, Technologically "ruled" barbarians (a definite Thundarr-feel there!), barely contained demon infestation, Gothic horror...I cannot imagine it getting better than that. And there is still so much potential in Avistan!

There is even more potential everywhere else since we already know what is in the Inner Sea. You are completely basing your like of the Inner Sea on the fact you know what is there. If we knew the other places as well then we could make a more accurate decision on wich one we like best.

There is even more potential everywhere else since we already know what is in the Inner Sea. You are completely basing your like of the Inner Sea on the fact you know what is there. If we knew the other places as well then we could make a more accurate decision on wich one we like best.

To each their own, really. How would you know what I am basing my 'like' on? You assume too much. I base it on cultural preferences and the Inner Sea (particularly Avistan) have the cultures I prefer, thank you. Will I buy other continent focused works? Perhaps, if I 'like' them.

Fourshadow wrote:

When it comes to developing a game or game world, there is no company I trust more than Paizo. No one else at all. They know what they are doing.

I am looking forward to this no matter how it is done.

While I agree that Paizo is doing well with Golarion, my first reaction to this post was "You're not familiar with Kèthíra, are you?" :-)

They have no idea at all how to price their products. It all evens out.

(I love Harn. I cannot afford Harn.)

Will anything more about this book be reveled during Paizo Con?

(I love Harn. I cannot afford Harn.)

There is that. OTOH, I've probably spent at least a couple grand on Pathfinder over the last year or so. :-)

Maybe we'll see hints of a non-human empire somewhere? Perhaps a reptilian realm in the Arcadian subtropics that human Arcadian kingdoms trade with, or wage war against...? (Just brainstorming some wishes :-D)

Maybe we'll see hints of a non-human empire somewhere? Perhaps a reptilian realm in the Arcadian subtropics that human Arcadian kingdoms trade with, or wage war against...? (Just brainstorming some wishes :-D)

IIRC, Arcadia is supposed to be the stomping grounds of the Syrinx, an evil flying humanoid owl-people race. They could have a traditional country of their own, or, like Pazuzu, think of all these lands as under their dominion, even if the clumsy walkers down there have their own notions about states and nations.

But yeah, more non-human nations would be cool. The lizardfolk nation south of the Inner Sea map sounds promising.

Iblydos might be a good place to see a functioning Cyclops or Centaur nation. (Or Minotaur or Myrmidon ant-peeps, or whatever.) Although it might be less a case of 'nations' and more like a dozen city-states scattered across the lands and islands, as Giants Revisited, IIRC, suggests that there are *multiple* Cyclops civilizations in Iblydos.

Vudra? VUDRA?!?

I KEEP THROWING MONEY AT THE MONITOR BUT NOTHING IS HAPPENING!

Seriously though this is awesome.

"Arcadia, Iblydos, southern Garund, and Vudra are presented for Game Masters and players alike. Explore one city in each of six global regions,"

http://pathfinderwiki.com/mediawiki/images/a/a3/Golarion_world_map.jpg

ARCADIA: "the Arcadian city going into this book is not one that has been mentioned before. It will be new and not a colony."

AZLANT: could be "the sun temple colony"

CASMARON: a city in Vudra is confirmed (see above) and also Iblydos the island nation in an archipelago off the coast of Casmaron in the Obari ocean is featured somehow.

CROWN OF THE WORLD: i doubt it.

GARUND: could be the dinosaur-riding lizardfolk of Droon or the azata-worshiping Dehrukani or the people of Nurvatchta who transform into spider-like monsters at night.

SARUSAN: not likely

TIAN-XIA: could be

I doubt that they're going to redo the Sun Temple Colony - Brandon Hodge's work in Lost Cities of Golarion was pretty definitive. ^_^

As far as southern Garund goes, I was hoping it would be those warrior maidens or a catfolk city.

The shores part of Distant Shores may suggest that whatever city they use, it will probably be coastal. That may also narrow down options.

You might be right about them being coastal towns.

I doubt that they're going to redo the Sun Temple Colony - Brandon Hodge's work in Lost Cities of Golarion was pretty definitive. ^_^

You´re right - i forgot that one. ;-)

The hobgoblin capital of Hongol in Tian Xia has been confirmed.

Well it looks like Tian Xia will get some love in this book after all.