Just got my Bestiary 5 in the mail and have been flipping through it. I'm thrilled to see the inclusion of more mythic monsters. I always need more baddies to throw at my demi-god PCs.
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Just got my Bestiary 5 in the mail and have been flipping through it. I'm thrilled to see the inclusion of more mythic monsters. I always need more baddies to throw at my demi-god PCs.
There's some good options for demi-gods. Knocking out one of the pillars of reality seems pretty godlike of an achievement, for instance, assuming they run chaotic in their alignments of course!
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It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.
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It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.
Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
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It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
A Revisited book wouldn't be the worst idea. Another possibility, though...
The greater portion of the two pages that start the Esoteric Dragons section are repeated information from the first Bestiary - this is true for the Primal, Imperial, and Outer Dragons as well. Would it be possible to put lore for all five dragons in that space, and refer dragon-builders to the first Bestiary or the PRD? It's not like building a dragon isn't already a ton of work, and users who don't want to go through all that still have the various sample dragons to work with.
It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
Ok, I'm on board with this idea, so I'll be the first to suggest this... After you of course Mark. Seriously though, this is a great idea. Please make it happen!
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Ok, I'm on board with this idea, so I'll be the first to suggest this... After you of course Mark. Seriously though, this is a great idea. Please make it happen!It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
Sorry, that's not my team's purview. If I ever get a pick for a Campaign Setting, my first one will be a Harrow-focused one that has my original medium, so someone else will have to run with this one.
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It also bears mentioning that the original Dragons Revisited is outdated in a lot of ways. It's 3.5, it's written by someone who hasn't been with the company in years (Mike McArtor; RIP), and it has a lot of stuff that James Jacobs wants retconned out (dragons living among humans as a regular thing).
Maybe we can get a different kind of Monster Codex focusing on non-humanform monsters. The drawback of the Revisited line is that sales are too poor for it to be regularly supported.
3 pages for a new dragon would be fine by me!
Maybe we can get a different kind of Monster Codex focusing on non-humanform monsters.
Many people have requested a Dragon Codex, with an example of each age category for each true dragon. Though, a little part of me wants Draconian Adventures, but that is a very unlikely concept to be made by the design team.
Sorry, that's not my team's purview. If I ever get a pick for a Campaign Setting, my first one will be a Harrow-focused one that has my original medium, so someone else will have to run with this one.Ok, I'm on board with this idea, so I'll be the first to suggest this... After you of course Mark. Seriously though, this is a great idea. Please make it happen!It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
I know its not your area, I'm just putting out the idea for whoever is in charge of this. Also, I really want the original medium put out there too, so go forth and conquer! I love almost everything you guys do, and can't wait to see what's coming next. Thanks Mark and company for making my life more exciting than it normally is. Being blind, the rich descriptions in your products really paint a vivid picture. so, thanks!
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I know its not your area, I'm just putting out the idea for whoever is in charge of this. Also, I really want the original medium put out there too, so go forth and conquer! I love almost everything you guys do, and can't wait to see what's coming next. Thanks Mark and company for making my life more exciting than it normally is. Being blind, the rich descriptions in your products really paint a vivid picture. so, thanks!Sorry, that's not my team's purview. If I ever get a pick for a Campaign Setting, my first one will be a Harrow-focused one that has my original medium, so someone else will have to run with this one.Ok, I'm on board with this idea, so I'll be the first to suggest this... After you of course Mark. Seriously though, this is a great idea. Please make it happen!It is disappointing that because of the large number of examples for each true dragon + art, that you have so little space for flavour text. Thank you Mark for give us another snippet of cut-text.Yeah, it's sort of how the format has been. It's fair to say that dragons are hard enough to build that having only two examples would make them harder for GMs to use (and for published adventures to use, since the Bestiary examples save a lot of wordcount in those), but more flavor would be cool. Who knows, if this is a big enough interest, perhaps you guys should suggest a Revisited Campaign Setting book for the later dragons that don't have as much lore.
I am really glad that we can do so, and I know the others here at Paizo are too!
I would love a "Draconomicon" hardcover type book that covers all true dragons and many of there lesser kin. I would also like a fey based one as well. Maybe we will get more revisited and/or unleashed books for this one day.
I know its "tradition", but i'm a demon and I BREAK through tradition. (like when I cheered when I heard Hugh Jackman stopped playing Wolverine, I had a party with lots of champagne and cheese.)
But why we always have to have 5 new dragons anyway? That is too obvious, so every line of dragons has only 5 types, that is so strange even in a fantasy world.
What if in the next book there are no new 5 dragons, or just 2 new dragons or 3? So the fluff can be bigger, or just do the Ancient Dragon, that is the most important one.
I mean, not every Bestiary has demon lords, and not every bestiary has Proteans, or a zombie on the end, so why only the 5 dragons must be there always?
Also a bestiary without new environment drakes or ditto giants would be fresh for once. Just fill the gasp of the lost 5 dragons with new 2 page unique dragons you make up or take from mythology, there are a lot of dragons left to cover, and there are the Azi.
If we break the "rule" about 5 dragons, environment giants, and drakes, then we can finally have a bestiary without demons or devils. I for one like the 5 dragon "rule" and the environment giants and drakes.
Hmmm... It seems like a good idea for one of the "back matter" articles in an AP, to provide expanded fluff for the non-Bestiary 1 true dragons. That would help, I think.
I'd rather AP-articles were just things that are golarion fluff like the Gods, not setting neutral creatures being given golarion flavour.
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If we break the "rule" about 5 dragons, environment giants, and drakes, then we can finally have a bestiary without demons or devils. I for one like the 5 dragon "rule" and the environment giants and drakes.
Well I wouldn't mind a Bestiary without new Demons and Devils as well.
Rather see new Kyton, Protean, Div and Daemons.
In fairness, they aren't "New" demons and devils, as they all come from books previously released.
That is true, but then that also goes to the Demons and Devils from AP's and all other Abyss-based projects.
I'm not a huge fan of the new Demons from the Wrath of the Righteous AP, so I hope they skip a couple Bestiaries. (not a big chance though, as James Jacobs himself really loves Lovecraft, Dinosaurs and Demons most of all, so there will probably be some in every Bestiary :-p )
I'm still waiting for my favorite Daemons to enter the hardcover bestiary, the bloody Sangudaemon and the Phasmadaemon, it takes so long for them to enter a hardcover, I wonder why, they are eye-catchers and awesome unique horrors that throw big eyes in ANY bestiary.
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I would love a "Draconomicon" hardcover type book that covers all true dragons and many of there lesser kin. I would also like a fey based one as well. Maybe we will get more revisited and/or unleashed books for this one day.
I'd kill for a hardcover Paizo version of the Draconomicon, which fleshes out the background and ecology of all existing True Dragons, with examples of lairs, Famous Dragon NPCS, dragon hoards, etc.
I really wish they would redo the art for the outer dragons.
Moon- Body would look like it was made of moon rock, maybe changing color to match the moon it is currently living on.
Solar- Body Looks like a burning star, color varies by age category.
Time- Body looks like silver mist/clouds with faint pictures of moving gears, clocks, hour glasses, etc.
Void- Body looks like the night sky so black with twinkling stars, possibly body is a map of the stars it was born near or is at currently.
Vortex- Body looks like swirling vortex with the body a lightless void and it's head, limbs, and tail are swirls of color.
I really wish they would redo the art for the outer dragons.
Moon- Body would look like it was made of moon rock, maybe changing color to match the moon it is currently living on.
Solar- Body Looks like a burning star, color varies by age category.
Time- Body looks like silver mist/clouds with faint pictures of moving gears, clocks, hour glasses, etc.
Void- Body looks like the night sky so black with twinkling stars, possibly body is a map of the stars it was born near or is at currently.
Vortex- Body looks like swirling vortex with the body a lightless void and it's head, limbs, and tail are swirls of color.
I actually like the outer dragons the way they are, psychedelic patterning and all
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I would love a "Draconomicon" hardcover type book that covers all true dragons and many of there lesser kin. I would also like a fey based one as well. Maybe we will get more revisited and/or unleashed books for this one day.I'd kill for a hardcover Paizo version of the Draconomicon, which fleshes out the background and ecology of all existing True Dragons, with examples of lairs, Famous Dragon NPCS, dragon hoards, etc.
It's not a hardcover, but you might want to check out Dragons Unleashed. It's similar to what you're talking about.
It's not a hardcover, but you might want to check out Dragons Unleashed. It's similar to what you're talking about.I would love a "Draconomicon" hardcover type book that covers all true dragons and many of there lesser kin. I would also like a fey based one as well. Maybe we will get more revisited and/or unleashed books for this one day.I'd kill for a hardcover Paizo version of the Draconomicon, which fleshes out the background and ecology of all existing True Dragons, with examples of lairs, Famous Dragon NPCS, dragon hoards, etc.
Oh I have it, but I want a hardcover with room to cover all of the existing dragons, not just mostly chromatics and metallics with a random sample of other dragons.
I got mine this week and it's a toss up which I like better as a GM, B4 or B5. It looks like somebody really likes Ghostbusters 2. The anunnaki are just lovely, this is something I hadn't realized I wanted and was especially useful to me as a GM. I'm not sure grays should have the alignment they were assign as the reports on them I have seem to lack the emotional component to be that malevolent. Kudos on the version of the hopkins goblins that made it in here. Now I wonder what the folks at Paizo would do recreate such UFO oriented cryptids as the Flatwoods Monster, the Loveland Frog and the Dover Demon. I really appreciate this volume great. Once again you shown me why despite everything else I keep coming back to Pathfinder.
I got mine this week and it's a toss up which I like better as a GM, B4 or B5. It looks like somebody really likes Ghostbusters 2. The anunnaki are just lovely, this is something I hadn't realized I wanted and was especially useful to me as a GM. I'm not sure grays should have the alignment they were assign as the reports on them I have seem to lack the emotional component to be that malevolent. Kudos on the version of the hopkins goblins that made it in here. Now I wonder what the folks at Paizo would do recreate such UFO oriented cryptids as the Flatwoods Monster, the Loveland Frog and the Dover Demon. I really appreciate this volume great. Once again you shown me why despite everything else I keep coming back to Pathfinder.
Paizo's already done the Flatwoods Monster in AP #61 Shards of Sin, albeit named the Melfesh Monster. ;)
I agree the Greys should have been TN.
While I don't want to see the overall number of monsters cut in half, I would be happy to have five fewer monsters if it meant decent fluff space for dragons.
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Well, that's an odd tangent!
Anyway, I love the Apallie. His art is just so evocative of lively old school animation, I can already hear him saying "Aw shucks, these people think I'm an ooze! Help me break this curse, adventurers!"
Plus, we can finally have a true Castlevania setting now that the Grim Reaper is a potential encounter.
I like the Apallie as well though I do wish there was some good aligned oozes and this one would have been a good choice.
An interesting book overall. If/when I get the time I'll toss up a review.
That said, I'd prefer less monsters and/or smaller artwork and more descriptive material. While some of the beings show up in APs or modules or other material with more information, not everyone collects those and may not have access to them. Stats are nice and all, but they are just jumbles of math without a skeleton to hang them on.
On the side topic of getting rid of creatures that have been a staple of the game for a number of years, I cannot express how irritated I'd be as a customer. It's well and good to want to include other beings; that's great and adds to the world. Removing things that some people believe are boring or old or tired does a disservice to those fans who may like them.
If someone is adamant about absolutely needing whatever these new and interesting things, I'd suggest looking into 3PP, either as a creator or expressing your interests to a company and seeing if they want to fill the gaps that the main Bestiaries aren't filling.