
Kudaku |

Any word still on whether the gillman and fetchling illustrations are intentionally so thin, or if it's a horizontal scaling error of some kind?
Also, post 1000.
Wow, I never noticed that. I think I've seen the gillman illustration elsewhere and she didn't look quite as thin then. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Edit: Ah, found it - the gillman picture was first shown in the preview blog post, and can be found here. I was mistaken earlier.

![]() |

I'm more curious on what sort of treatment Aasimar get.
Also, lets assume that someone already owns a lot of or all the material for the Setting that already looks at different races and cultures in Golarion: Andoran book, Osirion book, all the original 5 Factions, Inner Sea World Guide, People of _______, the various ______ of Golarion, etc, etc, etc. . .
Just how valuable is this book? (outside of consolidation)
I'm a lot more inclined to take the 2 star detailed review seriously than the 5 star one that's pretty general.

Kudaku |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

The main focus of this book is on the core races and especially human ethnicities.
The human section is 64 pages, with each ethnicity getting four pages of background text. The other core races get about eight pages each, the uncommon races (aasimar, geniekin etc.) get about six pages, and the rare races (android, gillmen etc.) get two pages. Some of these are collapsed into sections - all the geniekin share six pages, the various aliens share two pages, and the Dragon Empire Races - kitsune, nagaji, samsaran, tengus and wayangs - all squeeze together on two pages. That's about 190 pages total, with the fourth chapter adding an additional 60 pages of racial options.
A fair amount of the information that is given is repeated from previous material - for example they spend most of a page in the six-page aasimar section relisting the various racial heritages.
I'm not a huge fan of this book, but it does have its strong sides. The consolidation is very handy - I'll likely refer to this book rather than dig through my various Blood of X books in the future.
There is a lot of genuinely cool new information here, like how Ulfen admire lycantrophes, that kobolds brought magic and fire and rulership into the world, or that half-orc merchants may add gems to or plate their tusks in gold as a display of wealth.
There are "cheat sheets" included for how you can roleplay a race entirely different from yourself, these are really handy for new players.
The rules section is a bit hit and miss (90% of the new feats are Teamwork feats with race requirements, blegh), but it does have some really handy stuff. I love Mark's alternate racial trait for changelings, for example.
On the flip side I'm a little peeved they spent a lot of space on adding mostly high-price magical items but didn't bother including mundane racial gear. The Dorn-Dergar, ripsaw glaive, piston maul and elven branched spear seem like highly relevant additions to this book. I also really liked ISG's focus on primarily low-cost magical items since I find they're much more likely to actually be used. I really don't need a neck-slot one-target-only Sending clasp priced at 60k. Why is the kobold-specific race item a 70k mithral crowbar?
I think two stars is too harsh, I think five stars is far too generous. While a good read, this book is nowhere near as interesting or useful for me as the Inner Sea Gods was. Personally I'd put it at three stars.

Luthorne |
Depends what you want, really. I think the flavor text is pretty nice, there were I believe some new tidbits (like the origins of hobgoblins), there were a lot of interesting little bits and pieces that would probably be of interest to people portraying the race, whether as a PC or a GM (such as the goblin obsession with pickling), and so on and so forth. Getting some answers for other races, even those gone into in brief, is generally nice, such as where wyvaran are in Golarion, the true name of catfolk, where trox originate from, and so on and so forth.
The crunch is generally weaker; as mentioned, many of the feats are teamwork feats, and few of the magic items are worth their prices in my opinion, though the belt that allows you to ignore size restrictions when performing combat maneuvers might be worthwhile, and the shrinking anvils for dwarves kind of amused me. The alternate racial traits are generally more useful, though there's certainly some I don't think are worth it, and they did make an effort to include at least one for pretty much every race. And, of course, having all the racial information for all the races in the very back is also convenient.
Overall, I don't regret the purchase, and the consolidation really is handy. Inner Sea World Guide, Inner Sea Gods, and Inner Sea Races make a good triple resource for someone making a character in the Inner Sea region in general. I would, of course, have liked more detail on the non-core races, but the Paizo staff have certainly been honest about their intentions regardless of my personal preferences. I wouldn't throw away your Blood of or People of books yet, though, particularly not for non-core races.

Valantrix1 |

I love the idea of teamwork feats, I unfortunately think they really lack in their implimintation. Out of all the teamwork feats, only about 5 to 10% of them are worth bothering with in the end. IMO at least. Over all though, I like this book. Its not the best one in the line, but it is nice to have most of the flavor in one location. I'd give it a solid 3 of 5 myself.

nighttree |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I love the idea of teamwork feats, I unfortunately think they really lack in their implimintation. Out of all the teamwork feats, only about 5 to 10% of them are worth bothering with in the end. IMO at least. Over all though, I like this book. Its not the best one in the line, but it is nice to have most of the flavor in one location. I'd give it a solid 3 of 5 myself.
I wish they had handled the idea differently. Although I like the idea of a group learning to do special things through teamwork...it's way to much of a feat tax to expect all the players to take the feat in order to do so. Most builds that we come up with can't spare the feat slots to all take them.
I would rather have seen them do a skill system....with ranks determining what characters can do.

Ambrosia Slaad |

I had a friend email me the plain text of the skinwalkers "crunchy" info from the Racial Heritages section. Can someone confirm:
1) Skinwalkers no longer have a per day limit on their change shape usage?
b) Skinwalkers no longer take an additional penalty to Charisma-based checks and Charisma-based skill checks in bestial forms?
Π) Skinwalkers are now proficient with all simple weapons due to possessing the shapechanger subtype? Are kitsune also now proficient with all simple weapons?
Thanks :)

![]() |

I get around this by considering the party an entity that gets feats just like characters. When the average party level hits an odd number, the party gets to pick a teamwork feat that the whole party knows, without the characters having to expend feat slots.
Team Work Feats Feats are like Achievement Feats. They look amazing, and Paizo was pretty close to making them work, until you actually read them. In practice, they are beyond terrible, in implementation with the extremely rare exception of certain classes that get a pet or the few cases like the Inquisitor that gets them precisely by ignoring the "teamwork" part that drags them down.
I think what they where trying to go for was the Hunter the Vigil teamwork Tactics, which are essentially a special power that a specific group of folks can develop after working together for a time, and there is even a separate XP awarded for it.
But honestly, just hearing that the majority of the crunch of this book is Teamworks Feats is enough to dissuade me from purchasing it. Paizo, like you often ask, this is voting with one's wallet. Honestly, not being rude. Teamwork Feats, and primarily mostly Teamwork Feats was the straw that decided on this one.

![]() |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

But honestly, just hearing that the majority of the crunch of this book is Teamworks Feats is enough to dissuade me from purchasing it. Paizo, like you often ask, this is voting with one's wallet. Honestly, not being rude. Teamwork Feats, and primarily mostly Teamwork Feats was the straw that decided on this one.
Maybe, just *maybe* the TeamWork Feats are supposed to be used mostly by NPCs. You know, just like dozens of feats are completely lost upon an NPC or a monster, some feats might actually not be intended for players as go-to users.

![]() |

I had a friend email me the plain text of the skinwalkers "crunchy" info from the Racial Heritages section. Can someone confirm:
1) Skinwalkers no longer have a per day limit on their change shape usage?
b) Skinwalkers no longer take an additional penalty to Charisma-based checks and Charisma-based skill checks in bestial forms?
Π) Skinwalkers are now proficient with all simple weapons due to possessing the shapechanger subtype? Are kitsune also now proficient with all simple weapons?Thanks :)
A) That appears to be correct.
7) That language is no longer present, so... apparently correct.
$) That language isn't present in the kitsune section... but the language here suggests a universal aspect of the subtype. Ask the writers, I guess. ^_^

Valantrix1 |

DM Beckett wrote:Maybe, just *maybe* the TeamWork Feats are supposed to be used mostly by NPCs. You know, just like dozens of feats are completely lost upon an NPC or a monster, some feats might actually not be intended for players as go-to users.
But honestly, just hearing that the majority of the crunch of this book is Teamworks Feats is enough to dissuade me from purchasing it. Paizo, like you often ask, this is voting with one's wallet. Honestly, not being rude. Teamwork Feats, and primarily mostly Teamwork Feats was the straw that decided on this one.
True enough, but they are mostly terrible for NPC's as well. I almost always find better feats for my NPC's than most of the teamwork ones. They are really only Ok when you have a bunch of the same classes to work with, and even then they are extremely situational.

AndromedaRPG |

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I had a friend email me the plain text of the skinwalkers "crunchy" info from the Racial Heritages section. Can someone confirm:
1) Skinwalkers no longer have a per day limit on their change shape usage?
b) Skinwalkers no longer take an additional penalty to Charisma-based checks and Charisma-based skill checks in bestial forms?
Π) Skinwalkers are now proficient with all simple weapons due to possessing the shapechanger subtype? Are kitsune also now proficient with all simple weapons?Thanks :)
A) That appears to be correct.
7) That language is no longer present, so... apparently correct.
$) That language isn't present in the kitsune section... but the language here suggests a universal aspect of the subtype. Ask the writers, I guess. ^_^
Wait, to get the official errata(μ) for Blood of the Moon, I would need to buy this book? To me, that just seems odd...any idea if this errata will be released without a reprint of Blood of the Moon?
As an aside, I like your numbering schemes Ambrosia and Kalindlara.
μ: I know that I could find it on Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd, but technically that is not "official"

AndromedaRPG |

It is extremely unlikely that Blood of the Moon will be reprinted.
Ross: thanks for the info; however, that's why I asked if it would be released outside of a reprint.

The Golux |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:I had a friend email me the plain text of the skinwalkers "crunchy" info from the Racial Heritages section. Can someone confirm:
1) Skinwalkers no longer have a per day limit on their change shape usage?
b) Skinwalkers no longer take an additional penalty to Charisma-based checks and Charisma-based skill checks in bestial forms?
Π) Skinwalkers are now proficient with all simple weapons due to possessing the shapechanger subtype? Are kitsune also now proficient with all simple weapons?Thanks :)
A) That appears to be correct.
7) That language is no longer present, so... apparently correct.
$) That language isn't present in the kitsune section... but the language here suggests a universal aspect of the subtype. Ask the writers, I guess. ^_^
I suspect the simple weapon proficiency from the shapechanger subtype applies to the Kitsune and Skinwalker exactly as much as the martial weapon proficiency from the outsider type applies to Aasimar, Tieflings, Fetchlings, and Genieborn (i.e. not). They should still be proficient with their natural weapons I think, pretty much everything is proficient with all the natural weapons they have...

Gisher |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Samy wrote:I am delighted how much you enjoyed the Witchborn changeling alternate racial trait, and I'm glad you think it was worth the whole pricetag, but between you and me, if that's all you wanted, you could just make that adjustment anyway. The selling point for me is the stellar job that the authors and developers did on the world lore sections. It's packed with so much cool stuff in that regard.The REALLY BIG THING about this book is the second changeling alternate racial trait. That one blew my mind. Finally!
I'm also REALLY happy that pretty much every race gets at least one new alternate racial trait. Alternate racial traits are one of the best ways to customize races, so getting more of them was amazing. And especially when even D-list races (which I play more often than not) are treated to them. The one thing I really wanted that was missing was a way to get rid of the dhampir's negative energy affinity, but such is life (or undeath, as it were).
The feats section is a big disappointment, with a grand total of nine non-teamwork feats. I don't know what they were thinking, giving such a huge push to teamwork feats all of a sudden.
At the end of the day, I think I won't be using this book much past the six pages of race traits and either pages of alternate racial traits. I don't regret buying it, because I'm still willing to pay forty-five bucks for Witchborn changelings, but, eh. Dept of expectation management had done a good job letting me know in advance that this would focus on core races and fluff, so I can't really mark this book down for wanting more non-core races and crunch, but that's the book I'm really waiting for.
I've never paid much attention to Changelings before this since I almost always play high INT classes. But with this option available I took a deeper look, and they are pretty cool.

AndromedaRPG |

They don't errata books until they reprint them. And they don't reprint anything except the main RPG line hardcovers.
(not to be argumentative, but they have, e.g. the Adventurer's Armory and the Technology Guide, though I agree that it is rare)
The thing is, they have produced errata for Blood of the Moon; I was more curious if they were going to make people have to purchase that errata (by buying this book) or not. This is a different piece of circumstances, where they repeat and errata information previously released.
Since my group does not play directly in Golaran, this book is minimal for help. The Blood of X is useful since its easy to make generic; this is why I wouldn't jump at purchasing this book.

![]() |

I can just about guarantee that they will not be replacing your copy of Blood of the Moon with an updated one, and the chances of them revising the PDF of Blood of the Moon are about the same.
However, since all of the rules are (eventually) available online for free, you should be able to acquire updated information with relative ease. In fact, if you go over the posts in this thread, we've probably posted it for you. ^_^

MMCJawa |

Samy wrote:I get around this by considering the party an entity that gets feats just like characters. When the average party level hits an odd number, the party gets to pick a teamwork feat that the whole party knows, without the characters having to expend feat slots.Team Work Feats Feats are like Achievement Feats. They look amazing, and Paizo was pretty close to making them work, until you actually read them. In practice, they are beyond terrible, in implementation with the extremely rare exception of certain classes that get a pet or the few cases like the Inquisitor that gets them precisely by ignoring the "teamwork" part that drags them down.
I think what they where trying to go for was the Hunter the Vigil teamwork Tactics, which are essentially a special power that a specific group of folks can develop after working together for a time, and there is even a separate XP awarded for it.
But honestly, just hearing that the majority of the crunch of this book is Teamworks Feats is enough to dissuade me from purchasing it. Paizo, like you often ask, this is voting with one's wallet. Honestly, not being rude. Teamwork Feats, and primarily mostly Teamwork Feats was the straw that decided on this one.
The book is not really a crunch book though. Even if the feats were all awesome, if that is the only reason you are buying the book you would be dissapointed anyway

![]() |

The book is not really a crunch book though. Even if the feats were all awesome, if that is the only reason you are buying the book you would be dissapointed anyway
Not entirely true...I bought it for the crunch, and I'm fairly satisfied. Finally getting the rule about languages in print, plus new alternate racial traits after waiting for so long, plus Witchborn changelings, plus getting fixed dhampir heritage modifiers...I'm good. I won't use 70% of the book, but there's plenty there to make me not-disappointed.

Luthorne |
What is going on with Gillmen's new trait, deep gillmen? This trait is stated to allow gillmen to live in the deeper ocean and never visit land, but it removes their water breathing. How can they live in the deep ocean without water breathing?
To understand that, you need to know more about the aquatic subtype and the amphibious special quality.
Aquatic Subtype: These creatures always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe water. It cannot breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality. Aquatic creatures always treat Swim as a class skill.
Amphibious (Ex) Creatures with this special quality have the aquatic subtype, but they can survive indefinitely on land.
The Gillmen entry is ultimately a synopsis of these two rules; consequentially, by losing the amphibious racial trait, while retaining the aquatic subtype, they can breathe water, but not air without magic or some other form of artificial aid.

Ross Byers RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 |

Uhm.
I wonder what is Paizo's algorithms to price the PDFs. There is a massive gap between the 9 $ of the monster codex and the 31 of this one.
Historicall, they're usually 30% off the cover price of the print version. (Some rounding applies.)
RPG-line books are an exception, because most of their content will be given away on the PRD after a short delay - these PDFs are $9.99.
There have also been a few exceptions (maybe only one) for hardcovers like the Inner Sea World Guide, where the point has been explicitly somewhere between 'getting common setting information in as many hands as possible' and 'first hit is free'.

![]() |

The book is not really a crunch book though. Even if the feats were all awesome, if that is the only reason you are buying the book you would be dissapointed anyway
In my personal opinion, the only fluff that matters is the kind that either reinforces, explains, or enhances the crunch. I'm not saying that fluff is useless, but rather if it's not built around the mechanics, it's rather pointless. Additionally, considering just how much crunch was in other similar Campaign Setting books like the ISWG and ISG, I'm not sure that's true.
Now before anyone tries to put words in my mouth, let me reiterate that I already own the vast majority of the other books that deal with "fluff" for races in the campaign setting. And it's also been a pretty heavily voiced concern that a lot of people hate Teamwork Feats, just because they are so difficult to utilize and absolutely not worth the cost outside of the few cases where a single player bypass the "teamwork" part, or a few classes that can use them without a team.

Jessica Price Project Manager |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

I'll buy a hard cover campaign setting book when they do something original and not have it 70% recycled from previous books.
All of the text was new.
Some of the ideas were previously published, in that elves are still Golarion elves and dwarves are still dwarves -- this was intended to be a gathering-up of most of the stuff we've said about playable races so that it's all in one place -- but every race that had a spread had significant new details as well (and much of the human ethnicity stuff was completely new). So it is inaccurate to say that 70% of it was recycled from previous books.

Jessica Price Project Manager |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |

MMCJawa wrote:The book is not really a crunch book though. Even if the feats were all awesome, if that is the only reason you are buying the book you would be dissapointed anywayIn my personal opinion, the only fluff that matters is the kind that either reinforces, explains, or enhances the crunch.
That's not really the philosophy in how our world stuff gets done. (Other than the design team, which focuses on the rules, developers are just as likely to come up with "crunch" that supports non-mechanics things we've said about our world, or is there to support story elements in an AP, than vice versa.)

![]() |
9 people marked this as a favorite. |

Just to put my initial vote in, this is one of my favorite books since the APG. I really like that this is a roleplaying book versus a rules book. I think I may be in the minority (particularly on the boards, which is why I rarely post), but having information on how characters think and why they would act a certain way makes it so much more real and fun to me.
I do hate Teamwork Feats, but that isn't enough for me dislike the book, they are such a small part.

Steve Geddes |

All of the text was new.
Some of the ideas were previously published, in that elves are still Golarion elves and dwarves are still dwarves -- this was intended to be a gathering-up of most of the stuff we've said about playable races so that it's all in one place -- but every race that had a spread had significant new details as well (and much of the human ethnicity stuff was completely new). So it is inaccurate to say that 70% of it was recycled from previous books.
Thanks for clarifying that - I was beginning to worry. The bits I read seemed new to me.

shadram |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

I love this book. The lore and information about the different cultures is fantastic. So many options for players and GMs here.
I don't get the hate for the human-centric setting. I mean, if you slapped an animal head on one of the human cultures described here and called them "dog-folk", everyone would go nuts and lap it up. Can't say it matters either way what shape everyone's ears are...
Rules information is indeed light here, but it was clear that it would be from the time Paizo first mentioned the book.
Totally happy with my purchase. Good job, everyone who contributed to this!

KingmanHighborn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

If the ethnicities can/could be applied over all races in the books there might not be as much hate, and we do need a dog/wolf race and maybe a Lapine/Rabbit race. But that's neither here nor there.
The big problem with human-centric is many fold, 64 pages of hairless vanilla monkeys is a lot. When other races get 2 pages or less then a paragraph. Especially when humans have since the very beginning got 95% of the Pathfinder coverage. Then you look at what role humans play. 9/10 they are cannon fodder/monster food, or the mastermind BBEG. The 1 out of 10 humans are generally the named NPCs that either hand out quests or are speed bump villains. The PC human is generally in the minority of party composition for most gaming groups. (Our group only had one guy that even played the race.) Yet we are supposed to believe they are over 9 tenths of Golarion's humanoid population. So not only are they over saturated, but by and large just numbers alone they out number the races that are supposed to be the endless hordes like the orcs and goblins.
If they had those numbers then you have to look at either the breeding out of or given human nature the far more likely genocidal removal of every Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, all the way to the rarest of rare races within two generations. Humans are also stupidly overpowered/overly flexible in the mechanics of the game, with some of (if not across all classes) the best racial FC bonuses. A racial feat with more potential for abuse then even Leadership, and so many other annoy things.
So TLDR a lot of the hate of the human-centric stuff is the race is already getting the very best of the best, and yet they are generic, boring, oversaturated, over covered, and it feels like the race is really PUSHED on people whether they want them or not and those who play the game to ESCAPE being human in the real world.
Or for an even easier TLDR read this: http://horizonwalking.blogspot.com/2014/03/orthoss-observations-humans.html

![]() |
8 people marked this as a favorite. |

Dude, there are settings out there where Dwarves and Elves and Raccoon-folk play the first fiddle. Inner Sea is not one of them. Maybe instead of going about hairless monkeys, you should just seek out a setting that's more Mos Eisely Cantina and less Greyhawk?
And as far as statistics go, of my three Golarion groups, two are 3/5 humans and one is 5/7 humans. Don't make statements like "PC human is in the minority of party composition for most gaming groups" if the only empirical example you have is your own group.
The fact that you despise humans is quite obvious, but so is the fact that Paizo is sticking to their guns as far as humanocentrism of the setting is concerned. Seriously, if you want to escape all things human at your gaming table, there are RPGs out there that don't even feature humans as a playable race.

ZanThrax |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

Agreed. There are plenty of groups where most of the party is humans. And some of us like it that way; having one or two characters of unusual races in a party is interesting, having an entire party composed of oddballs is seriously hard on the verisimilitude. Nearly every NPC is human, and of those that aren't, nearly all of them are represented by the rest of the CRB races. Entire cities full of humans and other common races, but the party of adventurers is a walking menagerie of beings that the majority of those NPCs have never even heard of, let alone seen? That just takes me right out of the story that's supposed to be being told.

shadram |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

64 pages of hairless vanilla monkeys is a lot.
I just don't see it that way. I find the ethnicities presented in Inner Sea Races as anything but vanilla. Each is interesting, nuanced and full of great character ideas. It's the culture that most influences your PC's personality, which is what's presented here. Doesn't matter whether they look like us or have a donkey face and lizard tail. (That just makes finding the perfect miniature harder. :P)

Lanitril |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Human-centric? Sure. A really huge amount of humans for my fantasy setting specifically, sure? But it's also not my fantasy setting. I love my Mos Eisely Cantina version of Pathfinder I use. And I'm sad it's not the norm, but to write this off as useless or bad, just because it focuses a lot on human culture? Nah. The thing about culture in Pathfinder is that it's region specific in a lot of cases. Particularly with a lot of the races that blend in more easily with humans, their culture isn't exclusively their race, but where they were raised and where they live. There's nothing stopping you from having a Sylph who is also Ulfen. Will it be somewhat strange? Quite possibly, but that doesn't stop it.
I'll give a little bit about an Ulfen Sylph now, I guess. They would likely be seen as very weak for a long time, but they would never be abandoned by their family. The family might regret the child, but would be fiercely loyal. The Sylph would grow up wanting to be strong for their families, to the point of overcompensation maybe. I picture them possibly being even the most boisterous of their accomplishments and power, but rather unwilling to reveal how hard it was to attain it. They'll study and work hard all the time, combining their natural intelligence with their willpower to become someone their culture can respect. Will they still listen to the wind? Sure. Probably while training with their sword. Knowledge is power to them, after all.
I'm picturing a Magus.

MMCJawa |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

I was fine with and enjoyed the coverage of the human ethnicities. If I have any complaints it's that we didn't get more treatment of the existing non-human ethnicities. It would have been nice if the Ekujae Elves, or the Pahmet dwarves, got there own two page or something entries. Also didn't really much care for the amount of space being spent on half-races, which don't have their own culture and tended to end up being a bit repetitive because of that.