CBDunkerson |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Rapid extinction spiral how? That seems to describe many Western modern humans. Among Western modern humans, a couple might have "only" two children, and many pairings remain childless. I'm not seeing much of a rapid extinction spiral.
The description makes it sound like strix females each have fewer than two children on average. That, perforce, means a declining population. How quickly it declines depends on how far below two the figure is. The fact that "many" pairings have no kids makes it seem like a significant fraction. If that resulted in an average of one kid per female strix then the population would be cut in half every generation... rapid extinction spiral. If it is more like 1.9 kids per female then you've got a slow decline... kinda like Europe.
christos gurd |
Gisher |
I'd like to repeat this request from two weeks ago:
Zaister wrote:Can we please get a lite version of the PDF, similar to Inner Sea Gods and the Inner Sea World Guide?
There is an issue with this PDF (as was with, for example, the non-lite Inner Sea World Guide PDF) that, when viewed on Mac OS X or iOS, the background pattern is displaced to the bottom left which makes for weird looking pages. Here's a link to see how this looks on my iPad. All pages look like that, and it's the same with the non-lite Inner Sea World Guide PDF.
I'm having the same issue. It is very distracting and annoying.
xebeche |
Can we please get a lite version of the PDF, similar to Inner Sea Gods and the Inner Sea World Guide?
There is an issue with this PDF (as was with, for example, the non-lite Inner Sea World Guide PDF) that, when viewed on Mac OS X or iOS, the background pattern is displaced to the bottom left which makes for weird looking pages. Here's a link to see how this looks on my iPad. All pages look like that, and it's the same with the non-lite Inner Sea World Guide PDF.
I'm having the same issue.
Erik Mona Publisher, Chief Creative Officer |
Lanitril |
We'll look into the PDF issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Now that it's being looked into, would somebody keep us posted about it? Even though I know I'd get the updated PDF, it's currently the reason I haven't purchased this. If a few days go by before anything though, I'll still probably cave.
Mighty Squash |
Disappointed that the reincarnation table includes options that are not of the humanoid type but does not include any text to alter the "of the same type" implications in the spell.
It also does nothing to resolve the confusion about how ability score changes from the spell are applied (especially as to possibility of losing initial racial modifiers to mental ability scores). With how little resolution threads on the topic find and the continued absence of a FAQ, it is clearly still problematic.
When they put all that space in to the table it would have been a great place to fix the issues with the application of the spell in general.
Kalindlara Contributor |
From James Jacobs's comments elsewhere, the table was a last-minute addition to fill some page space - they probably didn't plan it out that way. They also might not want to fix a spell by patching it in the back corner of a different book...
In the meantime, let me plug some fine products for you. ^_^
Kalindlara Contributor |
I, for one, am happy to see a recinarnation table that does not have races with racial hit dice.
Indeed. It's also nice to see some of the newer races baked in.
I don't even mind the native outsiders - after all, you can get elementals with summon nature's ally, and there are enough places in Golarion infected by the Outer Planes that tieflings and aasimar are fully plausible.
Kalindlara Contributor |
Chet |
In this book, are there different racial configurations for the races that have different stats? i.e. dwarves with +INT and/or elves with +WIS?
p212 - Kindred-Raised Half-Elf - +2 Cha and +2 to another stat at the cost of every other Half-Elf Racial ability except for Low-Light Vision.
p212 - Half-Orc with Orc Atavism - +2 Str & -2 to a mental ability score of your choice, plus Ferocity Universal Monster Ability at the cost of Intimidating, being considered a Humanoid (human), and the weaker Orc Ferocity.
p215 - Witchborn Changeling - +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con (i.e., bonus to Intelligence instead of Wisdom to allow for better Changeling Witches).
David knott 242 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
One interesting thing from this book that I haven't seen mentioned is that it gives an alternate means of assessing the relative power levels of the different races via a system that does not use the race point system from the Advanced Race Guide. The ratings in this book are as follows:
Standard (no asterisks): Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human, Catfolk, Changeling, Dhampir, Gillman, Goblin, Grippli, Ifrit, Kitsune, Kobold, Nagaji, Oread, Ratfolk, Samsaran, Sylph, Tengu, Triaxian, Undine, Vanara, Wayang.
Advanced (one asterisk): Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Elf (Aquatic), Fetchling, Goblin (Monkey), Hobgoblin, Lashunta, Orc, Skinwalker, Suli, Tiefling, Vishkanya.
Monstrous (two asterisks): Android, Gathlain, Ghoran, Kasatha, Merfolk, Strix, Svirfneblin, Syrinx, Trox, Wyrwood, Wyvaran.
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
One interesting thing from this book that I haven't seen mentioned is that it gives an alternate means of assessing the relative power levels of the different races via a system that does not use the race point system from the Advanced Race Guide. The ratings in this book are as follows:
Standard (no asterisks): Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human, Catfolk, Changeling, Dhampir, Gillman, Goblin, Grippli, Ifrit, Kitsune, Kobold, Nagaji, Oread, Ratfolk, Samsaran, Sylph, Tengu, Triaxian, Undine, Vanara, Wayang.
Advanced (one asterisk): Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Elf (Aquatic), Fetchling, Goblin (Monkey), Hobgoblin, Lashunta, Orc, Skinwalker, Suli, Tiefling, Vishkanya.
Monstrous (two asterisks): Android, Gathlain, Ghoran, Kasatha, Merfolk, Strix, Svirfneblin, Syrinx, Trox, Wyrwood, Wyvaran.
Hobgoblin being rated as "Advanced" was a surprise. They are not that powerful.
Counterwise: Goblins are rated as "Standard" despite having the better skill bonuses and an amazing dexterity score.
Chris Lambertz Community & Digital Content Director |
pad300 |
I just got my copy, and read the "fluff" on ghorans: "ghorans have no known method of producing new Ghorus seeds, limiting their population to those ghorans actually created by Ghorus."
I realize that occasional errors slip by, but whoever turned this copy in needs to rethink. This statement implies ghorans are ALL extremely powerful and experienced. Ghorus lived some 4000 years ago! We are supposed to have PC's with skills and experiences of several thousand years, yet are first level... Hell, even ghoran NPC's are a b@% kitty to fit in - they should all be insanely high level (note that we have yet to see a single ghoran NPC of any level). Why hasn't the international ghoran conspiracy taken over the world by now?
Cthulhudrew |
I realize that occasional errors slip by, but whoever turned this copy in needs to rethink. This statement implies ghorans are ALL extremely powerful and experienced. Ghorus lived some 4000 years ago! We are supposed to have PC's with skills and experiences of several thousand years, yet are first level... Hell, even ghoran NPC's are a b#&*% kitty to fit in - they should all be insanely high level (note that we have yet to see a single ghoran NPC of any level). Why hasn't the international ghoran conspiracy taken over the world by now?
Because PCs are exceptional individuals in the world of Golarion (and rpgs in general), and the majority of any race/species/Ghorans will be non-PCs who have (mechanically) NPC class levels and experiences and (realistically) low ambitions and interests beyond the day to day mundane workings of average citizens of the world?
IE, they may have thousands of years of, say, farming experience- which is awesome- but not of wizardly expertise.
KingmanHighborn |
David knott 242 wrote:One interesting thing from this book that I haven't seen mentioned is that it gives an alternate means of assessing the relative power levels of the different races via a system that does not use the race point system from the Advanced Race Guide. The ratings in this book are as follows:
Standard (no asterisks): Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human, Catfolk, Changeling, Dhampir, Gillman, Goblin, Grippli, Ifrit, Kitsune, Kobold, Nagaji, Oread, Ratfolk, Samsaran, Sylph, Tengu, Triaxian, Undine, Vanara, Wayang.
Advanced (one asterisk): Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Elf (Aquatic), Fetchling, Goblin (Monkey), Hobgoblin, Lashunta, Orc, Skinwalker, Suli, Tiefling, Vishkanya.
Monstrous (two asterisks): Android, Gathlain, Ghoran, Kasatha, Merfolk, Strix, Svirfneblin, Syrinx, Trox, Wyrwood, Wyvaran.
Hobgoblin being rated as "Advanced" was a surprise. They are not that powerful.
Counterwise: Goblins are rated as "Standard" despite having the better skill bonuses and an amazing dexterity score.
Yeah but heck other then Troxs and maybe Kasatha, and maybe just maybe Svirfneblin, the monstrous ones aren't any better then a stock human. So this to me is bunk. As far as advanced, you could argue Drow, but as long as it's not 'noble' it's not op.
I really don't think of aasimar and tiefling as advanced races.
People say it's the resistances but those people are wrong.
Kalindlara Contributor |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Racial energy resistance 5 is actually weak and becomes outdated quickly plus there is currently no way to increase it.
Technically, there's at least one. ^_^
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Lanitril |
I think a lot of the reason they might be viewed as too strong is precisely because it's in league with human, half elf, and half orc, if not slightly higher.
If you want to play an Android Bard, that's tough. You want to play a Kobold Barbarian? Good luck. Catfolk Druid? Get that Wis up. Dwarven Mesmerist? Have fun.
But no matter what you want to play, there's probably a subtype of Tiefling or Aasimar who can play that class really well. Even if they're all meant to represent actually incredibly different races, it comes off as them being able to do anything they want.
+2 to main stat is great on human and half elf/orc. Tiefling and Aasimar can get +2 to 2 stats, potentially both a main stat. Maybe a -2 in a dump stat.
"Devil's Advocate" |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That might be true, but it also becomes a lot less significant after level one or two. The fact that they can't benefit Enlarge/Reduce Person is pretty huge, though.
There is also the fact that Humans do have the option to get two +2s and no -2 if they want, and can put them anywhere, not to mention "steal" from most other Humanoid's pool of uniqueness aught to rockett Humans up to ***+++. So don't buy everything that the book says.
pad300 |
pad300 wrote:I realize that occasional errors slip by, but whoever turned this copy in needs to rethink. This statement implies ghorans are ALL extremely powerful and experienced. Ghorus lived some 4000 years ago! We are supposed to have PC's with skills and experiences of several thousand years, yet are first level... Hell, even ghoran NPC's are a b#&*% kitty to fit in - they should all be insanely high level (note that we have yet to see a single ghoran NPC of any level). Why hasn't the international ghoran conspiracy taken over the world by now?
Because PCs are exceptional individuals in the world of Golarion (and rpgs in general), and the majority of any race/species/Ghorans will be non-PCs who have (mechanically) NPC class levels and experiences and (realistically) low ambitions and interests beyond the day to day mundane workings of average citizens of the world?
IE, they may have thousands of years of, say, farming experience- which is awesome- but not of wizardly expertise.
So a player comes to you with a proposal for a ghoran PC, and you're going to hand him 20 lvls of Commoner NPC as a bonus?
Not to mention if you read what ghoran's are, a significant portion of that experience is combat practice - being hunted, and eaten when they fail to evade the hunt...
Cthulhudrew |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So a player comes to you with a proposal for a ghoran PC, and you're going to hand him 20 lvls of Commoner NPC as a bonus?
Nope. He'll be a level 1 PC, like every other PC. He'll have the usual Ghoran racial benefits, which include potentially being able to benefit from the Knowledge skills of its past lives.
Take the mechanics out of the equation for a second. Look at the real world. We have, in the age of information, access to centuries of knowledge that we have accumulated, recovered, rediscovered, and/or created reasonable facsimiles of things that our ancestors have done since even before the dawn of writing. We know or can learn about the ways and techniques of agriculture, warfare, of generations upon generations of humans on this planet. You could go to a library- or even just Google- more data on these things than people could even 30, 40, 50, or 100 years ago.
Does that suddenly equate to you being some kind of superhuman that can conquer the planet? I think not.
Not to mention if you read what ghoran's are, a significant portion of that experience is combat practice - being hunted, and eaten when they fail to evade the hunt...
Being hunted and avoiding being killed does not necessarily equate to "combat practice." Ask any fox, quail, duck, deer, pheasant, turkey, or squirrel.
The Golux |
Ghorans still have a limited lifetime I think, after which they die and their seeds are refertilized and grow into new ghorans. Kind of like how androids work, only plants? Like their normal ghorus seed reincarnation lets them retain memories mostly, but after a hundred years/few hundred years that wears out and they have to start fresh?
Either that or they just start losing most of their memories beyond a certain amount of years ago.
KingmanHighborn |
That might be true, but it also becomes a lot less significant after level one or two. The fact that they can't benefit Enlarge/Reduce Person is pretty huge, though.
There is also the fact that Humans do have the option to get two +2s and no -2 if they want, and can put them anywhere, not to mention "steal" from most other Humanoid's pool of uniqueness aught to rockett Humans up to ***+++. So don't buy everything that the book says.
Yup the Racial Heritage feat and the fact the generally get an extra feat to burn anyway. Makes humans very strong and certainly an OP contender.
Kalindlara Contributor |
I would allow it certainly but I dunno if it's officially how it works.
Same here.
There's the possibility that it doesn't work, for the same reason that Adopted won't let you take tiefling/aasimar subrace traits. Then again, that's the subject of some debate as well.
It might be good to get some official clarification for that someday. ^_^
Benchak the Nightstalker Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8 |
Ghorans still have a limited lifetime I think, after which they die and their seeds are refertilized and grow into new ghorans. Kind of like how androids work, only plants? Like their normal ghorus seed reincarnation lets them retain memories mostly, but after a hundred years/few hundred years that wears out and they have to start fresh?
Either that or they just start losing most of their memories beyond a certain amount of years ago.
Or maybe they only keep all their levels if they intentionally plorp out a seed. If they die (of violence or old age) you can still plant the seed, but it sprouts a 1st level Ghoran instead.
Either way, age doesn't necessarily equate to level. There are plenty of old people in the campaign setting with barely any levels, and plenty of young folks with big piles of them. Not to mention all the intelligent, immortal monsters in the game who are perfectly capable of taking class levels, but haven't bothered to despite being thousands of years old.
Bellona |
I'm still giddy 3rd edition got rid of bunnies and squirrels :-)
Not to mention badgers, centaurs, and pixies! (Obligatory reference to the bad luck which hit the rival adventuring party in the Castle Greyhawk joke-based module collection.)
Of course, there is still the dreaded "100 - GM's choice" result ... :o