Announced! Product image and description not final.
Nice! Hope this release will be able to consider at least near the start of the Season of the Righteous.
And also hoping that either more class decks will be announce for this date or decks will start coming out monthly.
Is it only 3 characters (including Seelah) or 4 characters (3 new characters and Seelah)?
Because the wording isn't clear, are there 3 or 4 characters in this class deck? The way it is worded makes it seem like Seelah is one of the 3 new characters (which could make sense if it is a new version of Seelah), but the box art has 4 characters on it. If there are 4 characters, can you update the description to make that more clear?
Edit: ninja'd but keeping this here since it further elaborates on the above question by mentioning the boxart.
I'm guessing the image was updated before I got here because I can clearly read "Includes a new version of Seelah plus 3 brand-new paladin characters!"
Twelve hours ago: Nefrubyr, from the product description, quotes "includes a new version of Seelah plus 3 brand-new Paladin characters!"
An hour ago, Vic Wertz posts 'this bit *is* accurate: "...contains 3 new characters, including the iconic holy warrior Seelah..."'
The product description still reads what Nefrubyr quoted.
I'm confused. :-(
How many characters are in the deck? How many of them are not Seelah? :-)
Chief Technical Officer
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Twelve hours ago: Nefrubyr, from the product description, quotes "includes a new version of Seelah plus 3 brand-new Paladin characters!"
An hour ago, Vic Wertz posts 'this bit *is* accurate: "...contains 3 new characters, including the iconic holy warrior Seelah..."'
The product description still reads what Nefrubyr quoted.
I'm confused. :-(
How many characters are in the deck? How many of them are not Seelah? :-)
The *product description* says what I quoted. The *product image* says what Nefrubyr quoted. The product image is very much a mock up, and will change prior to publication. Pay it no mind.
Please release per class deck always 4 characters... For me it is the class deck rule. Less characters would break this rule which was postulated throughout the last 7 (!) class decks.
I hope the picture with Seelah PLUS 3 characters comes true.
Sorry to cause confusion… I was quoting from the product image. I skimmed the product description and somehow missed the text that various other people are quoting. Too busy trying to think up some snarky remark about how there's only one new class deck so everyone will have to play a Paladin in Wrath OP ;-)
That said… there are four characters pictured on the box; I wonder who (if anyone) is for the chop?
Myfly: I expect it's a bit late to change the number of characters in this box. It's also rather premature to base a "rule" on one (somewhat experimental) batch of class deck releases. Personally I'm more interested in the characters than the boons so I'd like to see four characters per class deck, but I totally understand from reading threads on OP that many people would prefer three characters and a better tuned selection of boons.
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Yeah, I'd personally much rather see three characters with a better selection of boons than four characters that are nerfed by their boons like the other 7 decks. If you don't play in organized play, it's not as big of a deal, but I do. :)
Thematically, 4 characters is very nice, though. They really had room to spread out in the characters with 4- always 2 male, 2 female, often several different races (the cleric deck with 3 characters may not have even had a non-human in it), and vastly different playstyles with the characters. I know that that last one was the big concern for OP, but careful boon selection for the deck and some character tweaking could fix that. And 3 characters leaves the non-OP players out in the cold. Additionally, even in OP games, gonna be a lot of duplicates at tables now with fewer characters to choose from.
One major concern I have is that they will drop the "odd" character that came in the class decks. Zarlova in the cleric deck, for example, was the only one without a heal power, but compensated by being a good divine caster. Amaryllis was the only sorcerer not to blow up cards, but to get a cool recharge mechanic instead. I am hoping that kind of stuff stays, but at that point is it really a Paladin deck? Again, thematically, with 4 characters you have a nice, solid set of that class, oh and hey, here's this really neat other character, too.
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Personally I think going three characters with a tighter build off the deck is the best option. Paizo can always add more Class Decks of odd design or focus down the line. Prestige Classes, an odd theme, unusual races... Likely not a top priority as I imagine the UCom UMag APG classes followed by hybrid classes will see decks before anything too unusual. Plenty to fill out the ranks for now. Or just flat out "Class Deck: Fighter 2." It is not like we are actually getting less characters. I imagine the seven class decks already released will still be usable in Season of the Righteous along with the new decks about to start up. That means even more diversity at the table, not less.
The other day I spent twenty minutes looking for my druid class deck. Then I realized it hasn't been published yet. Any idea of the release schedule for the remaining decks? Also, will you go beyond the eleven original classes?
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Chief Technical Officer
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The other day I spent twenty minutes looking for my druid class deck. Then I realized it hasn't been published yet. Any idea of the release schedule for the remaining decks? Also, will you go beyond the eleven original classes?
You seek this blog post!
You seek this blog post!
Aha! Thanks, Vic.
Refresh my memory: as I recall, these things are not part of the PACG sub, right?
Correct. Though if you read through that post Vic mentions that they would consider such an idea, perhaps as a deluxe version of the subscription.
Slightly (only slightly) disappointed here. I've been waiting what seems like ages for a Paladin class deck since it's my favorite class to play in the RPG. I was really hoping for either Leisair or Nyalil to be one of the 4 characters since I love their concept in the NPC Codex, and I even own both miniatures that were made for them in Pathfinder Battles. Instead it looks like Neln (the Gnome Paladin) was chosen as the other female.
It just seems like a missed opportunity here not to use a character with an existing mini. And Leisair would have been especially interesting since she combines paladin traits with archer feats. While I'm a tad disappointed, I'll of course definitely still be picking this up. I was just hoping to have an official character card to use with my matching miniature rather than homebrew my own character cards for them.
(I do see that image photo and description aren't final, so I suppose there's a little hope that the characters they chose in the image aren't the final characters that will be chosen for this deck. But I somehow doubt they put 4 random characters in the image.)
Will us ACG subscribers get this at a discounted price by chance? I think I've already put this down as a pre-order either way. Also, I read that there would be a monthly character deck subscription. Is that still true?
Slightly (only slightly) disappointed here. I've been waiting what seems like ages for a Paladin class deck since it's my favorite class to play in the RPG. I was really hoping for either Leisair or Nyalil to be one of the 4 characters since I love their concept in the NPC Codex, and I even own both miniatures that were made for them in Pathfinder Battles. Instead it looks like Neln (the Gnome Paladin) was chosen as the other female.
You'll probably be more disappointed to know that they are only doing three characters instead of four from now on, as that is what the community wanted. Also, it is said that the two other characters that are going to be in the new decks are going to be the opposite gender of the iconic, so Neln (assuming you identified her via the temp box art?) has likely been dropped from the deck.
I am not sure about that gender part. I think there was discussion about how they weighed choose gender, but no pattern was confirmed.
Though, for this deck, it will be Seelah and two male Paladins
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Chief Technical Officer
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Will us ACG subscribers get this at a discounted price by chance? I think I've already put this down as a pre-order either way. Also, I read that there would be a monthly character deck subscription. Is that still true?
ACG subscribers got discounts on the first batch because there was no Class Decks sub; since there will be a Class Decks sub before the next deck is released, you'll need to specifically subscribe to that line to get a discount.
How will that work with pre-orders? I've already pre-ordered the next four decks; when the sub becomes available should I cancel them?
Excellent! Thanks!
So having seen the preview blog for this... they all got the chop! None of the characters pictured in the mock-up image is featured in the final product. And that post that Hawkmoon269 linked to about having two male paladins turned out not to be true either.
Just in case anyone thinks I'm complaining: I am definitely looking forward to playing these!
This is currently set to be released after GenCon.
This may sound like a stupid question, but when exactly is GenCon?
This may sound like a stupid question, but when exactly is GenCon?
Thanks!
Final product image and description are up!
One of my PACG OP players was wondering when the character sheets and deck list would be added to the Community Use Package.
--Tim
Good to know, thanks!
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I have some questions/suggestions on Raz. First, shouldn't her second role be spelled "Trader", not "Traider"?
Second, for her third power, as it applies to her Fair Tra(i)der role, the current verbage is:
When a character at another location encounters a monster (□ or a weapon or an armor), you may bury (□ or discard) a card that has the Mount trait to allow that character to evade the monster; you then move to that location and encounter it.
I suggest changing the bolded word "monster" to "encounter" so that, once someone has checked the power feat to allow it to apply to a weapon or an armor, the wording remains consistent.
After seeing the current review, I would very much appreciate some additional information on this and whether people are happy with the class deck.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I have some questions/suggestions on Raz. First, shouldn't her second role be spelled "Trader", not "Traider"?
We'll get that updated. (Just to clarify for those looking in, that's an error on the downloadable character sheet only; the printed cards are correct.
I suggest changing the bolded word "monster" to "encounter" so that, once someone has checked the power feat to allow it to apply to a weapon or an armor, the wording remains consistent.
We'll address that via FAQ in the near future.
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@Theryon: I'm assuming you have the Decklist that went out in the update of the Character sheets package (the Paladin list is at the end, not in alphabetical order). So the only thing you're missing is quantities:
Lance x2
Longsword x3
Riding Horse x2
Blessing of the Gods x3
Blessing of Norgorber x2
Blessing of the Inheritor x2
And everything else x1.
3 characters, 3 tokens, 3 role cards, 92 different cards, 8 "repeats" = 109 cards.
As for quality, I've not played with mine yet, either, but I'm looking forward to it. Raz looks FUN. Koren is a socially well-adjusted half-orc. Is that even possible? And of course, Seelah's our Iconic. I know there was a lot of controversy between three characters making the Guild players happier, or 4 characters to make the AP players happier. I do a lot more home play than Guild play, so I'd've preferred 4 characters.
As for questions of mediocre skills, Paladins are good at almost EVERYTHING, so making them awesome at everything they are known for would be broken. They had to split their awesome among Martial ability, Piety, and Leadership instead of getting a super helping of all three. (Heggal makes a good Paladin once he gets weapon proficiency...)
Though I AM confused why the only Paladin with a Wisdom higher than d8 (Koren) is the also only Paladin who casts Divine off of Charisma rather than, say, Wisdom. I'm assuming that's a balance thing.
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Chief Technical Officer
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After seeing the current review, I would very much appreciate some additional information on this and whether people are happy with the class deck.
The reviewer has the facts correct, but is missing the design context that makes sense of those facts.
• Paladins *are supposed to be* moderately good combatants (but not the best), and moderately good spellcasters (but not the best). They are *intentionally* more like bards or rangers than fighters or wizards, except that they use Melee weapons instead of Ranged weapons. (If you want to be the hardest-hitting warrior, be a fighter or a barbarian... but you won't then have the power to cast Cures on a regular basis.)
• Paladins *aren't supposed to be* as good at recharging spells as wizards or clerics without playing blessings. There are lots of blessings in the paladin deck.
• There are indeed cards in the deck that boost skills that paladins aren't great at—and that's the whole point of having them. (A lot of demons have Knowledge checks, so those two cards will come in especially handy in Wrath.) Even so, if you're the kind of player who only puts cards into your deck that boost skills you're already good at, one of those two Knowledge cards *also* boosts Diplomacy, which 4 of the 5 existing paladins are already very good at. And the card that boosts Survival has the Mount trait, which makes it particularly useful for Raz.
• There is indeed an ally that uses Poison. (That ally gives a higher-than-average boost to your Melee combat check, as allies go.) If you want to argue that, thematically, a paladin's prohibition of poison extends to cover the allies she travels with, that's not unreasonable, but it's probably also not super-common.
• As for Mythic Path options, the reviewer complains that 2 of the 3 paladins don’t have an option that boosts both combat and spellcasting. This is true—but the presumption that that’s always desirable is the issue here. When Koren chooses Mythic Marshal, that helps his combat and his spellcasting. When Raz chooses Mythic Marshal, it boosts her combat and her considerable ability to acquire boons. As for Seelah, frankly, if you’re looking to play her in Wrath, most people are probably going to want the version of her that’s *in* Wrath.
• I'd also point out that the reviewer appears to simultaneously criticize the product for not being optimized for Wrath (the Poison-using ally being "a great way not to kill demons" and the lack of a Mythic option that boosts spellcasting and combat for 2 of the characters) and for being too strongly optimized for Wrath (no specific evidence is given in the review; I assume he's mostly referring to the six cards that explicitly care about Demons, although all of them have very useful non-Demon-related powers as well). You can make of that what you will, but I see it as the designers making sure that it functions as an accessory to *any* PACG Adventure Path, as advertised.
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After seeing the current review, I would very much appreciate some additional information on this and whether people are happy with the class deck.• Paladins *are supposed to be* moderately good combatants (but not the best), and moderately good spellcasters (but not the best). They are *intentionally* more like bards or rangers than fighters or wizards, except that they use Melee weapons instead of Ranged weapons. (If you want to be the hardest-hitting warrior, be a fighter or a barbarian... but you won't then have the power to cast Cures on a regular basis.)
• Paladins *aren't supposed to be* as good at recharging spells as wizards or clerics without playing blessings. There are lots of blessings in the paladin deck.
Much more erudite and specific than what I was saying, but along the same lines.
In the interest of balancing weaknesses, I gave my Class Deck Lem the Mythic Marshal path rather than, say, the Mythic Archmage because 1) there are days when the only attack spell in his hand is Lightning Touch ("immune to electricity, you say?") and his Crossbow still hasn't appeared, and if nothing else, that can be two fewer cards that I lose out of my enormous hand size... and 2) I totally didn't think about how useful more Knowledge would be. (D'oh!)
It occurs to me that once he hits AD4 (if he survives), he'll actually be better with Melee than with Ranged weapons, 'cause a d4+4 is ALWAYS better than a d8.
The deck list for this Class Deck is now available for download.
It's available; I've gotten it with my sub and also have seen it on the shelf of a local game store.
It is available. I've played with people using it. One guy even already had the Monk deck (which is the newest one). I'm not sure when you ordered it, but if it was the first week of September or earlier, I'd recommend contacting customer service to inquire about why it hasn't shipped. If it was after that, it probably just got caught up in the big rush of orders for September, which are still being shipped.
I hope you have it soon and get to enjoy it.
Sorry but I have to ask this:
I'm new to the Pathfinder World and I have problem to see the fantasy behind a paladin.
I can see why Seelah and Koren can be called paladin but Raz? She don't seem to have any faith in a deity. She wants to be different and therefore she becomes a paladin? It feels like she is a self-proclaimed paladin. She looks more like a cavalier to me.
I often compare paladin to similar classes and try to find the differences. For Pathfinder I compare the paladin with the cleric. In RotR I can see that the cleric is better in divine/casting and the paladin in battling with weapons. But with the class decks (cleric/paladin) this changed. While paladin still struggle in casting the cleric seems to be on the same level when fighting with weapons. Raz and Koren have a Strength d8 +2 Melee while Seelah has the d10 +2. The cleric on the other hand have Heggal with a Strength d8 +2, Kyra and Tarlin with d10 +2 and well Zarlova as a more spell oriented cleric. Specially Tarlin looks like a paladin for me.
Additionally why is the amount of blessings in the paladin cards list so low? The RotR Seelah has 6 Blessings (This Seelah and Raz have 3 and Koren has 4). This was another of my criteria for the paladin class.