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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)
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Get ready to shake up your game! Within these pages, the designers of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game unleash their wildest ideas, and nothing is safe. From totally revised fundamentals like core classes and monster design to brand-new systems for expanding the way you play, this book offers fresh ideas while still blending with the existing system. With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the game designer!

Pathfinder Unchained is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Unchained includes:

  • New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
  • New skill options for both those who want more skills to fill out their characters' backgrounds and those seeking streamlined systems for speed and simplicity.
  • Changes to how combat works, from a revised action system to an exhaustive list of combat tricks that draw upon your character's stamina.
  • Magic items that power up with you throughout your career—and ways to maintain variety while still letting players choose the "best" magic items.
  • Simplified monster creation rules for making new creatures on the fly.
  • Exotic material components ready to supercharge your spellcasting.
  • New takes on alignment, multiclassing, iterative attacks, wounds, diseases and poisons, and item creation.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-715-4

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Great Optional Toolkit

5/5 —

Having completed a couple of adventure paths as GM and gearing up for my third, I felt I had enough experience under my belt to see about implementing some of the alternative rules systems from Pathfinder Unchained. The book presents 254 pages of different or additional ways to do things in Pathfinder, and it’s certainly worth a look if you’re planning a new campaign—chances are there’s something for every GM. These aren’t little things like a new feat, but major redesigns of entire classes, monster creation, magic, and more. The only caveat is that the more you stray from the Core rules, the more unresolved issues are likely to arise, so think carefully through the implications of a change and make sure players are willing to buy in to any adjustments. Anyway, there’s a ton of material to discuss, so let’s get to it!

I’m not a big fan of the cover. The golem or animated statue or whatever it is has a crazy narrow waist that really annoys me for some reason, even though I do acknowledge the whirling chains are a nice nod to the book’s title. The introduction (2 pages long) notes that Pathfinder was released seven years earlier (at that point) and that it’s time to offer a workshop full of tools for GMs to select from to update and customise their game. It provides a brief but useful overview of the major new changes, and is worth a skim.

Chapter 1 is “Classes” (36 pages) and contains the most widely adopted changes across the Pathfinder community. The chapter presents new “Unchained” versions of the Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, and Summoner, and even PFS allows them because they are almost unanimously accepted as more playable (and better balanced) revisions. The Unchained Barbarian has simplified calculations for rage duration (though it still lasts too long, in my opinion) and makes it easier to use rage powers. The Unchained Monk has a simplified Flurry of Blows and new ki powers for versatility. The Unchained Rogue gets skill unlocks (discussed later) and important abilities like debilitating injury, weapon finesse, and (eventually) Dex to damage. The Unchained Summoner is frankly a nerf, but a much-needed one; the biggest change is to the eidolon, but it also fixes the Summoner spell list. I’m happy with all the class revisions, and I only wish Paizo got around to making Unchained versions of some of the other problematic classes out there. The chapter also contains a new method to compute BABs and saves to help multiclass characters, but it looks too complicated to me. Finally, there’s a new “staggered advancement” mechanism that sort of allows a character to partially level up as they go instead of doing it all at once when they reach a new XP threshold; I think it’s more effort than its worth.

Chapter 2 is “Skills and Options” (44 pages). It starts with an optional “Background” skills system, which essentially gives each PC a free rank each level to spend on a non-combat oriented skill like Craft, Perform, etc. I tried it once in a previous campaign but found it was rarely used to flesh out a character and was instead just dumped into learning another language or another point in a Knowledge skill. I do like the expanded skill uses for Craft, Perform, and Profession—they’re easy to integrate into a campaign because they essentially give the GM a list of uses and DCs to make those skills more valuable in ordinary gameplay (such as using Craft to determine what culture made an item, for example). Another optional change is a consolidated skill list that cuts the number of skills in a third! This is essentially what Starfinder did, and I’m not a fan at all because it makes for too much homogeneity within a group. Another proposal is “grouped skills” which makes PCs more broadly skilled but less specialised; complicated but interesting. Next, there are alternative Crafting and Profession rules. I like the changes to Crafting (simplifies and details DCs better) but it doesn’t address magical item crafting which, frankly, is the most likely to be used and abused. The changes to Profession are only for running a business. Perhaps most pertinent are the “Skill Unlocks” for Unchained Rogue (or any other PC who takes a particular feat)—these allow a character who has 5, 10, 15, and 20 ranks in a skill to gain a particular ability with that skill. These aren’t game-changers for the most part, but they do speed up their use or remove penalties, and are worth having for the most part. Last, there’s a new way to handle multiclassing; essentially, you give up feats to get the secondary powers of another class. I found it interesting but ultimately unsatisfactory.

Chapter 3 is “Gameplay” (46 pages) and is a real grab bag of options. The first involves alignment: either making it a bigger part of the game by tracking PCs’ alignment more finely and providing bonuses accordingly, or removing it altogether (which would require a *lot* of GM legwork). Some people like the revised action economy (a version of which was implemented in PF2), which changes the admittedly initially confusing dichotomy of Free/Swift/Immediate/Move/Standard/Full to just “Simple” and “Advanced”. However, I’ve also heard issues with how it handles certain classes. Another proposal is to remove iterative attacks; it looks interesting but too complicated for easy adoption. Next are “stamina points” and “combat tricks”—basically, a pool of points to use for a bonus on an attack or to do certain tricks that improve combat feats; I could certainly see using this. Also tempting is the idea of “wound thresholds”, which means there’s a degradation of fighting ability the more hit points are lost—this would create some new tactical considerations though it would also require some more GM tracking. Last are Starfinder-style disease and poison progression tracks, which make them *much* deadlier (I think they’re too hard to integrate at this stage in Pathfinder, however).

Chapter Four is “Magic” (38 pages). It starts with “Simplified Spellcasting”, in which a spellcaster only prepares spells for their three highest spell levels with all lesser spells grouped in a pool; this provides them even more flexibility, which is anathema to those (like me) unhappy with the caster/martial disparity at higher levels. Next are “Spell Alterations”, and some of these are more my jam: limited magic, wild magic, spell crits and fumbles, and material components have a cost for every spell (old school!). I know a lot of groups use the “Automatic Bonus Progression” rules, which provide a fixed bonus at each level so that the “Big Six” magic item slots can be used for more interesting and flavourful things than just stat boosting gear. Next are magical items that scale; I think one or two of these in a campaign could be really fun (and manageable), though I wouldn’t want to overdo it just because of the complications. Last up is a new way of handling magic item creation that involves the whole party overcoming challenges in order to add unique powers to items; it’s certainly flavourful and worth considering.

Chapter Five is “Monsters” (62 pages). It presents a whole new (and allegedly much faster) way of creating monsters. It’s the method adopted in Starfinder, and is based on arrays and grafts rather than building a creature from the “ground up”. I’m personally not a fan of it (I like knowing monsters follow the same “rules” as everyone else), but I do sympathise with the homebrewers out there who want a faster way to stock a dungeon with custom creations.

And that’s Pathfinder Unchained. If you’ve been playing or GMing for a while and have a good sense of the Core rules, it’s certainly worth a look.

Some of the suggested mechanics are worth the entire price

5/5 —

Automatic Bonus Progression is enough to justify the entire price of the book. Better versions of the Rogue and Monk, as well as fixes to the summoner and streamlining the barabarian seal the deal. There is a lot of other good stuff in here as well. Well worth it!

Upgraded Mechanics!

5/5 —

I love the idea of this book, I wish this happened more often. They took what they saw wrong with their game and spent proper time and effort to come up with proper solutions. It's pretty rare for a company to spend this much effort on tweaking things. The new proposed mechanics for combat and skills are unique and great ideas to help customize your groups' gaming experience.
I hope they release more books like this in the future. I've love for more variations for multiclassing, and I'm still waiting for a summoner archetype that removes the class summon monster ability and focuses more on the eidolon.
Highly recommend it, especially for anyone interested in how someone goes about making a gaming system. It provides awesome insights.

Fantastic product

5/5 —

It's been a while since it took me so long to digest a Pathfinder book, and boy, did Unchained ever keep me digesting. More optional rules than you can shake a stick at, to be implemented in modular or wholesale fashion, to tweak your game to your heart's content, and with top-notch art throughout, to boot. Excellent work by Paizo and one of their finest offerings in a while.

As for the negatives, the only thing I can really point out is that the writing can be somewhat scattershot and unfocused in a couple of reasonably complex sections, which would have benefited greatly from examples or bolded formulae.

Love The Options

5/5 —

This book is a great addition. Options are optional, and it's great that this book has so many. It really makes customizing a campaign easy. Of you'll like you never use every option, or likely even half of them in a single you play or run, but having them really gives you a great toolbox to use. Some people are finicky about house rules, so having an official batch of "house rules" to choose from is nice for people who prefer to stick to official products. No book is perfect, but being this book isn't really being forced on anyone (of course I suppose none of the supplements are), and that is a giant bag of options that you can pick and choose from to enhance the game, for those who'd like it enhanced, I give this product 5 stars, especially if I am comparing it to the usefulness of the average Pathfinder product.

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Dread Knight wrote:
I forgot if it was mentioned, does it have rules for VMC the ACG classes? If so what is it for Bloodrager, Warpriest, and Brawler?

ACG classes were not included, since they're generally a blend of two other classes. It wouldn't be hard to make your own, though.

Silver Crusade
Dread Knight wrote:
I forgot if it was mentioned, does it have rules for VMC the ACG classes? If so what is it for Bloodrager, Warpriest, and Brawler?

Core classes only was the news upthread.

Dread Knight wrote:
I forgot if it was mentioned, does it have rules for VMC the ACG classes? If so what is it for Bloodrager, Warpriest, and Brawler?

No, the hybrid classes weren't included. Core classes and Base classes were.

So what does Lore do, exactly?
1 person marked this as a favorite.
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Insain Dragoon wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

There's been a Monk in nearly every game I've played for the last ~10 years and I can only recall 3 or 4 successes. Even on a Monk built around Dex and Wisdom.

Pyromancer999 wrote:
So what does Lore do, exactly?

It's part of the background skill system, meant to encourage the use of the normally less popular skills such as Craftor Profession to help flesh out characters. Lore is essentially a very focused version of knowledge skills meant to represent a character who's very enthusiastic about subject X but doesn't necessarily keep up with everything in the field that X contains.

For example a character who's researching the bleaching in order to find a way to counter or even reverse the effects of the bleaching, would normally take Knowledge (history) and knowledge (local) to gain knowledge of how the bleaching came to be and how it effects gnomes. Using the background system, the character can instead take Lore: Gnome history or Lore: Bleaching to reflect his studies.
Designer
Insain Dragoon wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

I've seen and played so many monks, and I'm going to agree that it's basically a hail mary. I've also rarely seen things fail, though a lot more often than you guys. Generally, it falls like this in my games:

1) 17+ zen archers with high Wisdom putting Stunning Fist into their arrows tend to get a few failures each day's worth. I imagine senseis might possibly do the same, but I haven't seen many senseis, and the ones I saw didn't have Stunning Fist.
2) Sohei/Empyreal/EldritchKnight has gotten an OK amount too, also due to Wisdom focus for the casting.
3) For other monks, it's usually NPCs. Very few monsters fail, so if you fight mostly monsters, you're in trouble. If you fight a lot of NPCs, you have a decent shot of getting them off occasionally.
4) Super low rolls for monsters. If the monk tries 10 stunning fists in an adventuring day, maybe 1 or 2 of them get through because the enemy needed like a natural 3 to succeed, depending on how often the monk can predict when he's going to hit. This increases if there's other PCs sticking the enemies with reroll and take the worst or save debuffs.

Personally I think one of the best updates Unchained Monk could have got was a choice of Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, Punishing Kick, or Perfect Strike.

I kind of want to see the actual text of Greater Feint's Stamina ability, because if it is only until your next attack it is actually worse than the base feat itself.
Designer
Tribalgeek wrote:
I kind of want to see the actual text of Greater Feint's Stamina ability, because if it is only until your next attack it is actually worse than the base feat itself.

It was paraphrased correctly, and its use depends on your situation and what actions you have on a round by round basis, since it's a swift action, not a move (for instance, it's great for the round when you move up to a target and thus don't have your move action).

Insain Dragoon wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

That is surprising. Either the monsters strangely have very low Fortitudes...or the Monk DC is very high. I have seen the opposite; stun saves being beaten constantly.

Is the difference because some people pump str and some people pump wisdom?
Designer

No, ID means that Rynjin has only seen 3 things fail their saves.
Liberty's Edge
Barachiel Shina wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:


In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

That is surprising. Either the monsters strangely have very low Fortitudes...or the Monk DC is very high. I have seen the opposite; stun saves being beaten constantly.

I think you're talking past each other. ID was saying the monsters don't fail the save, not that the stunning fist didn't itself fail.

Grand Lodge

I did see a 3.5 monk stunlock a rakshasa one time, but I blame the dice for that one.
Designer
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I did see a 3.5 monk stunlock a rakshasa one time, but I blame the dice for that one.

Does sound awesome though!

Mark Seifter wrote:
Tribalgeek wrote:
I kind of want to see the actual text of Greater Feint's Stamina ability, because if it is only until your next attack it is actually worse than the base feat itself.
It was paraphrased correctly, and its use depends on your situation and what actions you have on a round by round basis, since it's a swift action, not a move (for instance, it's great for the round when you move up to a target and thus don't have your move action).

I can see it being used in that case, but what I want to know is if you can choose between the stamina version and the non stamina version even when you don't have to spend stamina.

Designer
Tribalgeek wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Tribalgeek wrote:
I kind of want to see the actual text of Greater Feint's Stamina ability, because if it is only until your next attack it is actually worse than the base feat itself.
It was paraphrased correctly, and its use depends on your situation and what actions you have on a round by round basis, since it's a swift action, not a move (for instance, it's great for the round when you move up to a target and thus don't have your move action).
I can see it being used in that case, but what I want to know is if you can choose between the stamina version and the non stamina version even when you don't have to spend stamina.

Ah, I see. You may misunderstand the way the stamina system works, my friend: If you have a stamina pool, you gain access to a shiny new way to use each of your combat feats, which usually costs stamina. But you still have all the other effects of the feat too.

Designer
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey look, it's the final blog! And it has fun stuff for you even if you already have the book, since it contains two things that didn't make it in there for space, my matrix that gives you an alternate option for weapon and armor properties in automatic progression, and the Unchained tarrasque! That's right, only found here on this blog, and not in the book.
Grand Lodge
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Does sound awesome though!

Shackled City:
He ran ahead of the party to turn a corner and find himself standing next to the kitty and a fire giant. While the rest of the party was rushing to catch up over the next couple rounds, he Stunning Fist'd the outsider with his first attack, then continued to flurry on the giant. When the giant hit him with a Large greatsword, he threw in a disarm check before dropping the sword behind him. The poor fire giant had no choice to try and overrun to get his weapon, provoking a critical hit that knocked him backwards.

So the monk kept the rakshasa from casting, tanked the fire giant, took away his sword, and nearly succeeded in keeping him from his sword until the rest of the party got there to back him up.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hey look, it's the final blog! And it has fun stuff for you even if you already have the book, since it contains two things that didn't make it in there for space, my matrix that gives you an alternate option for weapon and armor properties in automatic progression, and the Unchained tarrasque! That's right, only found here on this blog, and not in the book.

I think the flumph accidentally torched its own URL - when I try to open the image I get an error message?

http://static4.paizo.com/150423-Blog-PZO1131-FlumphLazors.jpg --> The requested URL was not found on this server, or you do not have permission to access this area.

Other than that, great blog post! I'll reread the magic weapon matrix when I'm less hung over tired. :)
Designer

I'm seeing the flumphlazors, but that could be because I'm at the office.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Tribalgeek wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Tribalgeek wrote:
I kind of want to see the actual text of Greater Feint's Stamina ability, because if it is only until your next attack it is actually worse than the base feat itself.
It was paraphrased correctly, and its use depends on your situation and what actions you have on a round by round basis, since it's a swift action, not a move (for instance, it's great for the round when you move up to a target and thus don't have your move action).
I can see it being used in that case, but what I want to know is if you can choose between the stamina version and the non stamina version even when you don't have to spend stamina.
Ah, I see. You may misunderstand the way the stamina system works, my friend: If you have a stamina pool, you gain access to a shiny new way to use each of your combat feats, which usually costs stamina. But you still have all the other effects of the feat too.

All is well then thanks for clearing it up for me.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
I'm seeing the flumphlazors, but that could be because I'm at the office.

Lilith just fixed it. :)

Out of curiosity, what was the Stamina bonus for Vital Strike? I can't for the life of me think of anything that would make sense...

Rerolling the attack roll and taking the higher result if i recall correctly.

Wow... That's actually decent.
Grand Lodge
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Dexion1619 wrote:
Wow... That's actually decent.

You sound surprised.

-Skeld
Liberty's Edge

Question ... the hardback has officially released now right?

I just ordered from Amazon (I had a gift card :) and it still says pre-order and my expected delivery date is June ... :/
Marc Radle wrote:

Question ... the hardback has officially released now right?

I just ordered from Amazon (I had a gift card :) and it still says pre-order and my expected delivery date is June ... :/

It will officially release on April 29th, in five days.

Got my book yesterday, and I have to say there are a lot of interesting systems and rules that this thread and the blogs didn't cover. This is a very big book and I'm still finding new things after skimming a few times. Definitely a worthwhile purchase!

Okay, second wtf moment....

I was kind of upset about Greater Feint, but I can see how it has some applications now, though I still think it could be better, now I just saw Improved Feint...

Like what the actual firetruck (-iretr). Spend 5 stamina points to feint as a move action.

.....

what?
BigP4nda wrote:

Okay, second wtf moment....

I was kind of upset about Greater Feint, but I can see how it has some applications now, though I still think it could be better, now I just saw Improved Feint...

Like what the actual firetruck (-iretr). Spend 5 stamina points to feint as a move action.

.....

what?

You're kidding me...? So the Stamina boost allows you to...do what the feat normally does?

Paizo editors at it again...
Barachiel Shina wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

Okay, second wtf moment....

I was kind of upset about Greater Feint, but I can see how it has some applications now, though I still think it could be better, now I just saw Improved Feint...

Like what the actual firetruck (-iretr). Spend 5 stamina points to feint as a move action.

.....

what?

You're kidding me...? So the Stamina boost allows you to...do what the feat normally does?

Paizo editors at it again...

no its a swift action, and you can ignore the int prereq as long as you have a point of stamina.

christos gurd wrote:
Barachiel Shina wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

Okay, second wtf moment....

I was kind of upset about Greater Feint, but I can see how it has some applications now, though I still think it could be better, now I just saw Improved Feint...

Like what the actual firetruck (-iretr). Spend 5 stamina points to feint as a move action.

.....

what?

You're kidding me...? So the Stamina boost allows you to...do what the feat normally does?

Paizo editors at it again...

no its a swift action, and you can ignore the int prereq as long as you have a point of stamina.

My hardback copy says ignore the INT prereq and spend 5 to feint as a move action. This is obviously an error.

the line about spending 5 stamina might be a mistake. On the one line it says you can use the feat so long as you have 1 stamina and on the next it says the feat costs 5 stamina to use normally.

Greater Feint lets you do it as a swift so long as you have 1 stamina and that uses pretty much the same language as is used in Improved Feint. With no mention of a 5 point cost for using it.

At the same time Two weapon feint does have a 5 stamina cost use that increase the duration that the target is deneied Dex. So maybe just use that.

If it is supposed to say spend 5 to feint as a swift action then that will work in amazing conjunction with greater feint. You can either feint normally, feint as a swift and get only one attack but save your stamina, or spend 5 points to get a full-effect feint as a swift action.

I think I like that much better.

I was looking at the Magic item section with the Inherant Bonus version and I though "What about Socketed items". Ioun Stones tend to cover most of the Big 6 so what if ioating around your head, all Ioun Stones had to be socketed in other items. Add a couple of new stones to fill in the gaps.
Dark Archive

Wasn't there supposed to be a god call mechanic of some kind in Unchained? Kinda of a tip of the hat to earlier iterations of D&D

At wich time (GMT) will the PDF be available ?
Raylol wrote:
At wich time (GMT) will the PDF be available ?

12 AM PDT (GMT -7)

Hmm, what's wrong with the PDF purchase link? It says "available today" and is staying dormant as of the moment I'm writing this thing...
Sovereign Court
Lucas Yew wrote:
Hmm, what's wrong with the PDF purchase link? It says "available today" and is staying dormant as of the moment I'm writing this thing...

Not midnight PDT yet. Right now its 423 pm, so you have like 8 hours left before it comes out.

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lucas Yew wrote:
Hmm, what's wrong with the PDF purchase link? It says "available today" and is staying dormant as of the moment I'm writing this thing...

It must be Wednesday where you are -- that is all the "Available today" means. You won't be able to able to buy the PDF until it is Wednesday in the Pacific time zone, as the previous poster said.

I guess if anyone in Hawaii ever sees "Available today", that would be a sign that something has gone very wrong.

:::sings::: 'Tomorrow, tomorrow...why isn't it tomorrow?'

Quick note for those who are waiting to pick up the PDF - I just finalized my Pathfinder Unchained review. I hope it's worth the read! :)
Insain Dragoon wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

Sounds to me more of a case of a Cheating GM who does not like seeing his creatures locked down.

Grand Lodge
Ashram wrote:
Raylol wrote:
At wich time (GMT) will the PDF be available ?
12 AM PDT (GMT -7)

isn't PDT GMT-8?

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John Kretzer wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

So far I have only had one legitimate wtf moment reading this. and that would be the Greater Feint combat trick.

For those who don't have the book, it basically says as long as you have 1 stamina point you can feint as a swift, HOWEVER doing so makes the target flatfooted against ONLY your NEXT ATTACK, not any others you make that round.

Why would anybody ever use this?

Got a really high AC/dex enemy that no-one can hit? Swift action feint, declare Stunning fist, let the rogue and everyone else kill him on their turns.

In all my play I have never seen anything fail a stunning fist save.

Rynjin, who has played like 8 Monks through many levels has only seen 3 things fail.

Sounds to me more of a case of a Cheating GM who does not like seeing his creatures locked down.

Or stunning Fist DCs being criminally low for common enemies?

Either you build a Monk who can hit or one that can have a decent DC. If you can afford both it's because either all the rest of your stats suck or because you got lucky ability score roles.

Against one who built to hit I need to roll a 5 usually to pass the save. The ones who built for high saves need to roll a 13 or higher to hit me.

VS a Barb, Paladin, anything with a boost to fort, and monsters stunning fist is a sad gamble.
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