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Could a tiefling with the racial trait allowing the use of large weapons without penalty take a level in titan fighter to use a huge greatsword at a -2 penalty?
Also is it just me or is the Goliath druid not one of the single greatest archetypes ever! I need to get one of these guys in a game as a half-giant (DSP) wielding a large or depending on the answer to the above question, huge greatsword. Tack on spontaneous enlarge person and giant form and I could be swinging a gargantuan greatsword for vital strike perfection.
Okay, two questions for this manual (both related to the Titan Fighter archetype for the Fighter class).
First, does the Giant Weapon Wielder extraordinary ability of the Titan Fighter archetype solve the problem that the Massive Weapons extraordinary ability of the Titan Mauler archetype of the Barbarian class does not (aka the "Inappropriately Sized Weapons" rule)?
Second, if the Giant Weapon Wielder extraordinary ability does indeed allow the wielding of a large-sized weapon by a medium character, will we get a similar revision for the Massive Weapons extraordinary ability of the Titan Mauler archetype of the Barbarian class in the 3rd printing of Ultimate Combat (or possibly in new errata)?
Whoa that effortless lace sounds incredible. I hope it'll be PFS legal as that would open up a bunch of finesse-build options.
It does.... a lot. By itself, Slashing Grace doesn't let you apply dex to hit with weapons that don't already get it. Combined with this (at a really decent price, to boot?) Don't need to dip Swashbuckler anymore to get full use from finesse, sure, but it also opens up a lot of options for twf... depending on the exact wording, of course.
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Whoa that effortless lace sounds incredible. I hope it'll be PFS legal as that would open up a bunch of finesse-build options.It does.... a lot. By itself, Slashing Grace doesn't let you apply dex to hit with weapons that don't already get it. Combined with this (at a really decent price, to boot?) Don't need to dip Swashbuckler anymore to get full use from finesse, sure, but it also opens up a lot of options for twf... depending on the exact wording, of course.
Without giving away any spoilers on the book, I will say that one of the reasons I worded the Effortless Lace as I did was to make dual-scimitar builds something that could actually be accomplished without a massive –4 penalty on attack rolls. We'll see soon enough how the fine gentlemen with the Pathfinder Society choose to handle the Effortless Lace, I'm sure, but I designed it the way I did to expand upon the number of finesse builds that people could play effectively. In that way, its sort of like a blinkback belt or belt of hurling, but for finesse weapons.
Again, not a Paizo-official response. If you quote my post and try to use it as +1 flaming finesse weapon bane ammo, I can't promise that an angry rune giant won't show at your doorstep in the wee hours of the morning, looking for vengeance.
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By RAW, it seems possible to use several Effortless Laces on the same weapon. Or did I miss something ?
Also, I do not get what the benefit of the Cry Challenge feat is. Way I read it, it only allows you to get attacked :-/
Again, I'm not the developer or a representative of Paizo, Inc and my word has no say at anyone's table but my own, but if you tried to tie multiple effortless laces onto a single weapon at my table, I'd probably thwack you with my copy of the Giant Hunter's Handbook.
Also, I do not get what the benefit of the Cry Challenge feat is. Way I read it, it only allows you to get attacked :-/
From one "black moniker" to another - its designed to draw the focus of the Jotunn's attack to one source, allowing the rest of your crew to hamstring and butcher the longshanks.
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I'd probably thwack you with my copy of the Giant Hunter's Handbook.Aren't the player's companions floppy?
Players can be surprisingly hard to replace, and in my experience bludgeoning them with my Core Rulebook brings the unpleasantness of police investigations, so I prefer to stick with thwacks rather than clobberings.
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Now I am only going based on what I have read here and on d20pfsrd.com so I could be wrong but.....
You mean to tell me there are new skill uses for Bluff/Diplomacy and Stealth (like HIDING BEHIND OR WITHIN BIG CREATURES!) but---
One of the most well known staples of combat with massive enemies, the ability to climb atop and hang on to them while fighting them, is found no where in the book? Not as a new Climb skill option (which would make the skill more useful) or as a feat?
Both WotC and Paizo lack this mechanic in the game.
Why exactly?!
Rite Publishing's outstanding (imo) release 101 New Skill Uses has an expansion of Climb to cover this, if you're willing to go 3PP.
Couldn't one just use the climb skill as is to climb a giant? It seems any GM worth their salt could adjudicate that action.
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Yes. It would, (depending on the creature), be a DC 15 or DC 20.
It would draw at least 2 AoO's, one for moving into the threatened square and another for moving through multiple squares, as it's likely going to take multiple actions and you are moving at 1/4th speed, (or 1/2 if you want to take a -5 to Climb).
You loose your Dex, and are restricted to a single, one handed or smaller weapon. Every hit you take is a penalty on your Climb Check.
You can attempt an Acrobatics check as well, but it's going to be tough, as is Grappling. You can also use a rope/lasso to make it easier.
One of the most well known staples of combat with massive enemies, the ability to climb atop and hang on to them while fighting them, is found no where in the book? Not as a new Climb skill option (which would make the skill more useful) or as a feat?
Both WotC and Paizo lack this mechanic in the game.
Why exactly?!
I would argue that that mechanic is very much in the game in the form of the Climb skill itself. It's not spelled out in the rules, true, but I'd totally accept any player's request to perform that stunt.
So, the mechanic is there, it's just up to us as GMs to look beyond the few examples for each skill given in the Core Rulebook (a book hard pressed for space, I imagine) and be more flexible in our use of the skills.
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101 New Skill Uses goes with Climb DC = 10 + opponent's BAB, though the target has to be at least 2 sizes larger than you. You provoke an AoO and lose your Dex bonus against the target, and it loses its Dex bonus against your attacks. It can use an attack action to try and throw you off, forcing you to make another Climb check or fall and take appropriate damage.
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I think a Climb check against the enemy's CMD would be best, and maybe a circumstance bonus on the check the larger the enemy is? Since it would be easier to climb a Colossal creature than it would a Large creature, I'd say.
Climb vs CMD sounds good to me, and provokes an AoO, creature must be at least 2 sizes categories larger? and gives you the grappled condition (but not your foe)
throw in some feat love:
Improved Foe Scaling:
Making a climb check to scale a foe no longer provokes an attack of opportunity, and you gain a +2 bonus on that check
Prereq: 5 ranks in climb
Greater Foe Scaling:
You no longer have the grappled condition when scaling a foe, you gain an additional +2 bonus to your climb check, and your foe is now considered to have the grappled condition against your attacks.
Prereq: Improved Foe Scaling, 8 ranks in climb
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Rite Publishing's outstanding (imo) release 101 New Skill Uses has an expansion of Climb to cover this, if you're willing to go 3PP.Now I am only going based on what I have read here and on d20pfsrd.com so I could be wrong but.....
You mean to tell me there are new skill uses for Bluff/Diplomacy and Stealth (like HIDING BEHIND OR WITHIN BIG CREATURES!) but---
One of the most well known staples of combat with massive enemies, the ability to climb atop and hang on to them while fighting them, is found no where in the book? Not as a new Climb skill option (which would make the skill more useful) or as a feat?
Both WotC and Paizo lack this mechanic in the game.
Why exactly?!
There's also rules for this in Everyman Games' Microsized Adventures PDF, as well as for things like the Crush combat maneuver (letting the giants stomp on those annoying dwarves and halflings) and a great chart for how to handle weapon damage by size. I personally consider it a great piece of work.
I haven't seen any considerations about Effortless Lace, but...
Considering this item and the Titan Fighter build, wouldn't it be viable to permit the use of the magical item in two-handed weapons?
Example: A Titan Fighter using a large greatsword with Giant Weapon Wielder ability normally receives -2 penalty for attacks. So, if an Effortless Lace could be used in his weapon, it would reduces to zero penalty to inflict 3d6 raw weapon damage two-weapon handling.
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So, some things I'm trying to sort out with the Goliath Druid.
1. At level 4 I've gotten wild shape. The modified version of Wild Shape allows only megafauna and dinosaur forms, however there are almost none which are small or medium. Is this an oversight or intent? Seems seriously gimped by only having 3 shapes to choose from (until level 6), or as posed in my 2nd question do I actually have access to smilodons and such as they are typically classified as 'pre-historic'.
2. Does 'dinosaur' include the pterosaurs and icthyosaurs? What about the -dons? Smilodon, Mastodon, etc..?
3. If, at level 4, I use Enlarge Person and then Wild Shape, do I then use the medium shape, but gain the enlarge person size bonuses until it wears off? Or can I access a larger shape but then take penalties when enlarge person wears off (as though I was subject to reduce person)?
Modules Overlord
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Dinosaur includes those entries in a bestiary under "dinosaur" and megafauna includes those entires in a bestiary under "megafauna." So pteranodons are in, mastodons and smilodons are out.
The wild shape and enlarge person don't work together (though they do overlap). This is because "other spells that change your size have no effect on you" while under the effects of a polymorph effect (such as wild shape, that acts as beast shape). This is also why the goliath druid ends up gaining giant form options for wild shape.
While the limitation to wild shape early on is a known effect, it is at least in part offset by access to a broader range of enlarge person (that can, for example, also increase the size of an animal companion).
I haven't seen any considerations about Effortless Lace, but...
Considering this item and the Titan Fighter build, wouldn't it be viable to permit the use of the magical item in two-handed weapons?Example: A Titan Fighter using a large greatsword with Giant Weapon Wielder ability normally receives -2 penalty for attacks. So, if an Effortless Lace could be used in his weapon, it would reduces to zero penalty to inflict 3d6 raw weapon damage two-weapon handling.
This example brought to you in part by the Pathfinder Design Team.
Standard Greatsword — 2d6
Large Greatsword (Titan Fighter w/ Giant Weapon Wielder — 2d8
+ Enlarged via Enlarge Person — 3d6
+ Impact Weapon or Lead Blades Spell — 3d8
You can already get that with a –2 to your penalty, thanks to Giant Weapon Wielder. That doesn't need to be reduced to –0. That was something I strongly believed in when I designed the effortless lace.
In addition to keeping the damage in-check by restricting it to one-handed goodness, I designed the effortless lace so characters who specialize in finesse combat could have more options available to them. I have always thought that mithral weapons should be treated as being lighter for the purpose of Weapon Finesse, and the effortless lace was the closest that I knew that I could get to having that effect in the game.
REMEMBER: I don't speak for Owen, Wes, Erik, Lisa, the purple golem, the Warehouse Morlock, or anyone or thing else at Paizo. I am merely sharing my personal design philosophies. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can get your GM to agree to allow you to stack all of the effects that I mentioned to get 3d8 weapon swings with no penalty whatsoever, then by all means use the item as you wish in your home game. :D
Standard Greatsword — 2d6
Large Greatsword (Titan Fighter w/ Giant Weapon Wielder — 2d8
+ Enlarged via Enlarge Person — 3d6
+ Impact Weapon or Lead Blades Spell — 3d8Your damage progression is incorrect. Per the link in your post...
"If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps." (emphasis mine)So the progression would actually be...
Standard Greatsword — 2d6
Large Greatsword (Titan Fighter w/ Giant Weapon Wielder) — 3d6
+ Enlarged via Enlarge Person — 4d6
+ Impact Weapon or Lead Blades Spell — 6d6
Ah, thanks. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that table. Haven't had the time to fully absorb it yet due to the Pact Magic Kickstarter that I'm running.
Now I am only going based on what I have read here and on d20pfsrd.com so I could be wrong but...
In this book, climbing onto larger foes is included in the vexing dodger archetype (for the rogue class) which can be found on page 21. It replaces trapfinding with the ability to climb onto a larger foe (the DC is the foe's CMD) and penalize said foe's attacks against the rogue. At higher levels, it gains additional abilities that work best against larger for or specifically on larger foes, culminating in the ability to distract (nauseate) climbed creatures with the dirty trick maneuver if they fail a Fortitude save.
I have a question about the vexing dodger archetype:
You need both hands free to climb, but you may cling to a wall with one hand while you cast a spell or take some other action that requires only one hand. While climbing, you can't move to avoid a blow, so you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
If i understand this right, climbing foes is actually not a good idea due to how climb works untill you take a certain trait from this book, while one would still be better served taking another trait from this book that helps getting there in the first place?
Or how is this exactly supposed to work?
Probably everyone can do that. The rogue archetype can do it better though and gives some boni to it, like a dodoge bonus equal to your sneak attack dice vs the climbed creature.
Only the Rogue, and a specific archetype at that, can do this? That's rather...sad. It should be something anyone with the Climb ranks should do, from stalwart Fighters to clinging Rogues to Wuxia-styled Monks.Now I am only going based on what I have read here and on d20pfsrd.com so I could be wrong but...In this book, climbing onto larger foes is included in the vexing dodger archetype (for the rogue class) which can be found on page 21. It replaces trapfinding with the ability to climb onto a larger foe (the DC is the foe's CMD) and penalize said foe's attacks against the rogue. At higher levels, it gains additional abilities that work best against larger for or specifically on larger foes, culminating in the ability to distract (nauseate) climbed creatures with the dirty trick maneuver if they fail a Fortitude save.
If you don't mind 3PP content, I wrote a new combat maneuver that does something similar in Microsized Adventures, the scale combat maneuver.
Wanna link it, explain it and explain Microsized Adventures?
Something to do with Macrosized adventures?
I wonder how this archetype interacts with "wall climber" ninja trick and climb speeds in general.
I wonder how this archetype interacts with "wall climber" ninja trick and climb speeds in general.
As normal for climb speeds, anyone with a climb speed climbing a foe keeps Dex bonus to AC while climbing, gains a +8 bonus on Climb checks, can always take 10 on Climb checks, and can move at the climb speed without penalty or twice the climb speed with a -5 Climb penalty. As long as the creature you climb provides a vertical surface (such as the side of a leg), the wall-climbing ninja should be able to use her climb speed. She just couldn't use the ninja climb speed on the underside of a dinosaur's belly, for example.
Since the archetype trades out the second level rogue/ninja talent, earliest chance would be level 4.
Untill then it´s either the trait or climbing without DEX to AC?
Quite a deadly thing for some i muse...
Wanna link it, explain it and explain Microsized Adventures?
Something to do with Macrosized adventures?I wonder how this archetype interacts with "wall climber" ninja trick and climb speeds in general.
I've got Microsized Adventures and I'd say the new rules and maneuvers in it would work wonderfully when fighting giants.
P. 24 are the damages in error? The medium are doing less damage than the small for all these weapons. Is there an official errata for this book?
aonprd.com has the correct weapon damage values.