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Can someone start spoiling some of the new alchemical items in this? The wait is killing me and from the looks of it they will not hit my inbox till after Easter.
Bloodgorge: It thins the blood so if you take bleed damge it can nauseate creatures around you.
Frightful War paint: Shaken creatures within 30'.
Imposing war paint: +4 to intimidate checks, increase duration of fear effects.
Shaman's Paint:+2 to caster level in regards to spells that effect one or more allies. The downside is if worn for more than 1 min/day you start taking 1 wis damage.
Shriek Bomb: a delayed 2d6 sonic damage to a 10' radius. Fort save for half.
Poison Diffuser: Changes contact or ingested poisons into a gas.
Spirit of Glass: tiny shard of glass cause small cut on the skin allowing injury poisons to be used as contact poisons.
Vector Ink: mixes a contact poison with ink making it remain potent for a week.
That is it for now...I will post more latter.
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Is that from a book or did you just make that up?You would think they would just give the alchemist to have the DC of his items be the same DC as his bombs.Alchemical know how: your abilities with the alchemical arts are second to none and you know how to improve alchemical items on the fly. Whenever you use an alchemical item you can choose to use either the item's DC or the DC of your bombs whichever is higher. In addition, items with duration effects last for either the the listed duration of dice or the number of dice you roll for bomb damage (so a tangle foot bag lasts for 3d4 rounds instead of 2d4 rounds if thrown by a 5th level alchemist). Using this ability consumes a bomb from the alchemists daily allotment.
If you want to make it a discovery make it need like a level 2-4 requirement one.
There hope that helps people.
I made it up like 5 minutes after reading the message.
What's the formula for determining the creation cost of the oozes, if a player character wished to construct one that isn't in the book?
What's the formula for determining the creation cost of the oozes, if a player character wished to construct one that isn't in the book?
The formula's very easy. Take oodles of gp. Liquify it into a congealment mass. Apply magic. Presto! Instant ooze!
In all seriousness, the formula isn't given. Instead, specific types of oozes are assigned a gp crafting value. There's probably a formula there, but I haven't the time to try and crack it at the moment. If anyone else is feeling bored on this Easter afternoon, here are the values if you want to take a stab at it:
Gleatinous Cube (3 HD) = 1,600 gp
Gray Ooze / Slithering Tracker (4 HD) = 3,600 gp
Ochre Jelly (5 HD) = 4,900 gp
Black Pudding / Magma Ooze (7 HD) = 8,100 gp
Deathtrap Ooze (8 HD) = 8,100 gp
Carnivorous Crystal (11 HD) = 16,900 gp
It also notes that any ooze created by this feat is mindless, even if it normally has an Intelligence score.
Also note that the values I've listed are specifically the construction cost: the feats says that the market value of an ooze is twice this cost, so a Carnivorous Crystal costs 33,800 gp to buy.
Could it be 100*(CR squared)?
Let me look some up ...
Black Pudding is CR 7, HD 10.
Gelatinous Cube is CR 3, HD 4.
Gray Ooze is CR 4, HD 4.
Ochre Jelly is CR 5, HD 6.
Nope. I'm stumped.
Only flipped through my PDF so far, but there is one thing that's quite obvious: the art is BEAUTIFUL. This is one of the best looking player companions I've ever seen.
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At the top, directly under the name, is the price of a single dose.
Down in the bottom, where it says Doses: # (X GP), it has the number of doses needed to use it as an alchemical power component, and the total GP cost of that many doses.
Sweet!
Now the question is is a vial of efficient medicine 700 gp or 9,000 gp? It's cost line says 700 but it's crafting cost is 4,500.
Alchemical know how: your abilities with the alchemical arts are second to none and you know how to improve alchemical items on the fly. Whenever you use an alchemical item you can choose to use either the item's DC or the DC of your bombs whichever is higher. In addition, items with duration effects last for either the the listed duration of dice or the number of dice you roll for bomb damage (so a tangle foot bag lasts for 3d4 rounds instead of 2d4 rounds if thrown by a 5th level alchemist). Using this ability consumes a bomb from the alchemists daily allotment.
If you want to make it a discovery make it need like a level 2-4 requirement one.
There hope that helps people.
I agreed with this until the very end, where it consumes a bomb of your daily allotment. I don’t think that this is necessary, especially if it would be a discovery.
If I wanted to use a bomb slot, I would just throw a bomb instead. Yes, there may be that rare instance throwing an alchemical item (instead of a bomb) is better, but usually that’s not the case.
I feel being able to increase the DC of alchemical items should be an ability the Alchemist receives without sacrificing something else. Very much like Use Poison, Poison resistance or Swift Alchemy.
Edit: Ok, I could possibly see some of the effect-based alchemical items maybe being more worthwhile than throwing a bomb, but I still don’t feel you should need to sacrifice using a bomb slot.
If you think it’s too unbalanced without taking something away, then I would rather it takes you longer to craft the alchemical items with the higher DCs (or using your DC as an Alchemist) than to use a bomb slot.
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Alchemical know how: your abilities with the alchemical arts are second to none and you know how to improve alchemical items on the fly. Whenever you use an alchemical item you can choose to use either the item's DC or the DC of your bombs whichever is higher. In addition, items with duration effects last for either the the listed duration of dice or the number of dice you roll for bomb damage (so a tangle foot bag lasts for 3d4 rounds instead of 2d4 rounds if thrown by a 5th level alchemist). Using this ability consumes a bomb from the alchemists daily allotment.
If you want to make it a discovery make it need like a level 2-4 requirement one.
There hope that helps people.
I agreed with this until the very end, where it consumes a bomb of your daily allotment. I don’t think that this is necessary, especially if it would be a discovery.
If I wanted to use a bomb slot, I would just throw a bomb instead. Yes, there may be that rare instance throwing an alchemical item (instead of a bomb) is better, but usually that’s not the case.
I feel being able to increase the DC of alchemical items should be an ability the Alchemist receives without sacrificing something else. Very much like Use Poison, Poison resistance or Swift Alchemy.
Edit: Ok, I could possibly see some of the effect-based alchemical items maybe being more worthwhile than throwing a bomb, but I still don’t feel you should need to sacrifice using a bomb slot.
If you think it’s too unbalanced without taking something away, then I would rather it takes you longer to craft the alchemical items with the higher DCs (or using your DC as an Alchemist) than to use a bomb slot.
Ehh I don't mine the bomb cost since it does help balance out the aforementioned power that comes with the boost. Having a tangleburn bag with 4d6 burn and the same DC as your bombs for only 150 gp is pretty gnarly. That being said the fact that it's a discovery is something more negotiable and meant to be something for those who want to make it a little more locked.
Now if you are talking about pumping the DC's through crafting in my home games I've always just let that happen if you are willing to pump up the cost and DC to create (since you are essentially concentrating the chemicals into a more potent concoction). Also it makes loot more fun when you give someone a tequila bottle that is essentially a 6d6 napalm ball of with a DC 25 to shake since it's essentially 6 bottles of alchemist fire in a jar.
Ok, I guess to each their own. If I was maybe playing a gnome where I received extra bombs, then I wouldn’t have as much issue as using my bomb slots. It’s just I find the slots are more valuable used for bombs than using them to throw boosted alchemical items.
That’s great you have rules already in place for boosted alchemical items with more expensive crafting. The GM I’ve had awhile, where he is a very good GM, he tries to stick as close to RAW as possible, so we’d never see something like that. I know someone earlier in the thread indicated that you can implement making Masterwork alchemical items, but there are really no rules in place to what that would mean on mechanical numbers and is out of the realm of RAW, so I don’t think my current GM would use it. And really not sure it would be worthwhile for a crafter to pay 100 GP extra (1/3 the cost) for an offensive (weapon) alchemical item?
However, I’m going to be starting another campaign under a different GM soon and will be playing an Alchemist. This GM loves to homebrew his own rules when he feels it is needed, and he always does rules that are neat and also make sense. I will approach him about bumping the DC for crafting items and see what he says. Knowning him, I could see him making his own charts for increased crafting costs and higher DCs.
In your campaign, what is the formula you use in pumping up the crafting cost compared to increasing the DC?
What is this Wish Alchemy? can I get some details about it?
what time on Wednesday like midnight East cost time zone.
what time on Wednesday like midnight East cost time zone.
About 3am Eastern Time Zone.
what time on Wednesday like midnight East cost time zone.About 3am Eastern Time Zone.
So were you just telling him what time midnight PDT corresponds to in the Eastern time zone, or are you actually saying that the April 30th PDFs will be available at that time? You could have quite a few sleepless East Coast customers if it is the latter.
what time on Wednesday like midnight East cost time zone.About 3am Eastern Time Zone.So were you just telling him what time midnight PDT corresponds to in the Eastern time zone, or are you actually saying that the April 30th PDFs will be available at that time? You could have quite a few sleepless East Coast customers if it is the latter.
Clearly I need more coffee... PDFs should be available at 12:01 am on Wednesday, April 30th, Paizo time (which is Pacific Time).
Wish alchemy is more powerful alchemical items many of wich use mythic points to increase there power further.
Example is a more powerful alchemist fire that does 2d6 damage direct hit and a 1d6 splash, with the use of one mythic point they can catch fire that burns even underwater.
thanks Liz I am getting up early tomorrow.
I see that I have a very high DC Will save coming up to go to bed on time tonight and NOT get up around 3 a.m. to buy those PDFs. I have to keep telling myself that I really can wait until I get home from work tomorrow....
yah but what if you have to stay late or while you are at work you computer gets stolen or heartbleeds all over what ever stuff so you get after work. Carpe libellus man.
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yah but what if you have to stay late or while you are at work you computer gets stolen or heartbleeds all over what ever stuff so you get after work. Carpe libellus man.
Hey, "aiding another" to boost Paizo's already absurdly high save DC is so uncool!
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thanks Liz I am getting up early tomorrow.
The PDFs aren't going anywhere. Sleep in! :D
you can't trust ninjas David. but if you want to miss out I guess that's ok
dagnabit I over slept.
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Vial Of Efficacious Medicine has a list Price of 700 gp but construction Cost of 4,500 gp? Should the real Price be Cost x2 (9k) or should the Cost be 1/2 Price (350 gp)?
Considering the effects, and the ability to use it three times per day, my guess is that the Cost is correct, and the Price is the typo.
I'm wondering whether the spontaneous alchemy recipes are meant to be discovered or copied, like extracts and wizard spells, or if every character with at lest one rank in Craft (alchemy) is assumed to know how to make everything in all of the books, both spontaneously and via the Craft (alchemy) system.
I'm also wondering essentially the same thing about all of the new alchemical items. Does everyone with a rank in Craft (alchemy) know how to make Derro fungus grafts, or should discovering the recipes for some of these new items require research (in the lab or the field)?
I'm also wondering essentially the same thing about all of the new alchemical items. Does everyone with a rank in Craft (alchemy) know how to make Derro fungus grafts, or should discovering the recipes for some of these new items require research (in the lab or the field)?
Well, by RAW, the new items are probably all handled like any other alchemical item in that you can create them with a successful DC check(s). I don’t see why these new items would have different rules on creation compared to previous alchemical items.
But of course that is campaign and GM specific, your GM can always say these are rare or unique items and you need to ‘find them’, or find knowledge of them, before you can craft them.
After reading over my PDF for a bit, in answer to the player knowing the recipes for spontaneous alchemy, I would assume they would know what is needed to make the items. And considering Craft is an untrained skill, I wouldn’t even say they would ‘need’ at least 1 rank to know this, just like they wouldn’t need 1 rank to craft a (non-recipe) Alchemist’s Fire.
However, considering the DC to make some of these items, not putting ranks in Alchemy isn’t going to get you anywhere. And even though it isn’t RAW in needing ranks to know how to craft alchemical items (or knowing the recipes), I don’t think it would unfathomable for a GM to institute that rule.
My question is, the money spent for reagents, is that on top of the original cost for the alchemical item? For example, with Acid Neutralizer, the base cost (without going the spontaneous route) is 15 GP. But if you want to craft it spontaneously and add up the reagent cost, it comes out to 17 GP 5 SP. I’m assuming that replaces the base 15 GP cost and doesn’t add to it?
Edit: Also, with using the spontaneous crafting route, I’m assuming you pay 1/3 the price after adding up the reagents?
To be honest, I’m a bit leery of the Instant Alchemy feat through spontaneous crafting. It really oversteps the ability of the Alchemist when he picks up Instant Alchemy later on, and the non-Alchemist can do this MUCH sooner.
I think it will really depend on how much money will be saved in using the non-recipe method. I haven’t really added up the GP for the recipes with the exception of a couple, so if the cost is much different, then I don’t have as much as an issue as the non-Alchemist could be paying quite a bit more in crafting spontaneously.
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I'm also wondering essentially the same thing about all of the new alchemical items. Does everyone with a rank in Craft (alchemy) know how to make Derro fungus grafts, or should discovering the recipes for some of these new items require research (in the lab or the field)?Well, by RAW, the new items are probably all handled like any other alchemical item in that you can create them with a successful DC check(s). I don’t see why these new items would have different rules on creation compared to previous alchemical items.
But of course that is campaign and GM specific, your GM can always say these are rare or unique items and you need to ‘find them’, or find knowledge of them, before you can craft them.
I assumed that the mechanics would be the same; my question was meant to address their availability rather than the crafting roll. Your idea about GM judgment calls sounds reasonable to me.
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My question is, the money spent for reagents, is that on top of the original cost for the alchemical item? For example, with Acid Neutralizer, the base cost (without going the spontaneous route) is 15 GP. But if you want to craft it spontaneously and add up the reagent cost, it comes out to 17 GP 5 SP. I’m assuming that replaces the base 15 GP cost and doesn’t add to it?
Edit: Also, with using the spontaneous crafting route, I’m assuming you pay 1/3 the price after adding up the reagents?
To be honest, I’m a bit leery of the Instant Alchemy feat through spontaneous crafting. It really oversteps the ability of the Alchemist when he picks up Instant Alchemy later on, and the non-Alchemist can do this MUCH sooner.
I think it will really depend on how much money will be saved in using the non-recipe method. I haven’t really added up the GP for the recipes with the exception of a couple, so if the cost is much different, then I don’t have as much as an issue as the non-Alchemist could be paying quite a bit more in crafting spontaneously.
Page 3 in the book says that "the cost to craft an item with spontaneous alchemy is usually 10 to 20% higher than the item's market price." Based on that, I'd say you're probably right: it costs 17.5 gp to spontaneously create Acid Neutralizer, not 15 gp + 17.5 gp.
The other factor that compensates for the increased speed is the risk of losing reagents or getting a face-full of exploding chemicals in a mishap.
I really don't grasp the implications of Instant Alchemy (feat) vs. Swift Alchemy (class ability) and Instant Alchemy (class ability) yet. I'm sure someone will post a risk/benefit analysis of ordinary alchemy (non-Alchemist), spontaneous alchemy (non-Alchemist), ordinary alchemy (Alchemist) and spontaneous alchemy (Alchemist) within a few days.
Edit: I don't think there's any "paying 1/3 the price" involved. From what I gather, spontaneous alchemy is much faster than the ordinary Craft (alchemy) process, but also more expensive (3X+0.1X to 3X+0.2X). This system isn't about making a profit, it's about having the finished product today, not next month.
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Oh yeah, the Master Alchemist feat needs to be part of the cost/benefit analysis, too.
Come to think of it, I wonder whether that feat affects spontaneous alchemy at all. As written, I think the +2 skill bonus is the only part that applies. (The "create extra poison doses" part might apply, but I don't see how the "calculate progress based on gp, not sp" part would make any difference in spontaneous alchemy.)
Does this book cover rules for gathering raw materials needed to craft Alchemy items with the Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Herbalist) skills?
My players are in a town with no Alchemy items available, but the skills to make their own , and around the town there are plains, forest and mountains they can search for raw material/components.
Does this book cover rules for gathering raw materials needed to craft Alchemy items with the Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Herbalist) skills?
My players are in a town with no Alchemy items available, but the skills to make their own , and around the town there are plains, forest and mountains they can search for raw material/components.
It does give you recipes and the cost of the raw materials + time. but you might have to GM how to get the raw materials yourself.
@Zergtitan,
Thanks for the reply. I will go and request assistance for creating those rules in the Rules sub forum.
A question here: for those of us who use/like the Daggermark Poisoners, how useful is this book? I'll be getting it in any event, but I might as well find out how badly I want it.
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What's the proper price of saltpeter, on the inside back cover? It lists the price as 3gp, but when using it as a power component, it says 1 dose is 1gp. Which is it?
I think that a single dose costs 1 GP, but it is typically sold at shops in units of 3 doses, so you can usually only buy it in 3 GP increments. Not positive since the others have things reversed where the number of doeses it's normally sold at is usually at the bottom whereas the price of a single unit is usually at the top. Either way, I'm leaning 1 GP per dose on it.
A question here: for those of us who use/like the Daggermark Poisoners, how useful is this book? I'll be getting it in any event, but I might as well find out how badly I want it.
Four feats:
* Reduce or increase onset time of a poison by 1 day, to a minimum of 1 round* Add 1 to the DC of poisons you make
* Apply poison while drawing weapons using Sleight of Hand
* Increase or decrease the frequency of poison you make by one time unit (minimum per-round, maximum per-day)
Three alchemical items:
* Turn a poison into a gas, with an optional delay in activation time
* Tiny bits of glasslike poweder that causes abraisons that allow injury poisons to enter as contact poisons
* Ink that keeps contact poisons effective on paper for long periods of time
Four new poisons from Daggermark:
* Blindness and deafness
* Dex drain and nausea/sickness
* Make the target more vulnerable to Diplomacy
* Con damage and bleeding
There's also 5 non-Daggermark-specific poisons in here.
Also, dynamic alchemy basically fixes the crazy-long-poison-crafting-times problem; individual poisons are given crafting times, which seem to generally gravitate around a day (though there's one that takes an hour instead).
It is my hope that they expand the dynamic alchemy rules to poisons from the Core Rulebook and other sources (also drugs and alchemical items that aren't already handled in it).
What's the proper price of saltpeter, on the inside back cover? It lists the price as 3gp, but when using it as a power component, it says 1 dose is 1gp. Which is it?I think that a single dose costs 1 GP, but it is typically sold at shops in units of 3 doses, so you can usually only buy it in 3 GP increments. Not positive since the others have things reversed where the number of doeses it's normally sold at is usually at the bottom whereas the price of a single unit is usually at the top. Either way, I'm leaning 1 GP per dose on it.
This is how I read it, as well.
You buy the salt pepper in 3 dose increments, which would be 3 gold. Another thing to keep in mind is the price listed for the components (3 GP in this example) is what you need to pay when crafting spontaneously.
Lord Gadigan: thanks for the information.
EDIT: And good to hear that several of those new choices are non-lethal poisons. That can make to easier to convince the good guys in the party to accept the poisoner in their midst.
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I binned my first draught, as most has been said by the others, and decided instead, to celebrate this product in verse.
So here's my tribute to the Lords of The Boards.
Apologies to all concerned; you know it's in fun.
(to the tune of 'Lily The Pink', by The Scaffold)
(Chorus)
We'll drink a draft or two
Of Damiel’s Patent Mutagen Brew
It works on any sentient race
You may not get what you ever expected
But you’ll be totally off your face
Sebastian Brony became a pony
But being earthbound made him cry
So after a snifter, of Mutagen Lifter
This Pegasister has learned to fly
Leprechaun Spanky looked tired and manky
He was constipated and cold
But one application of Lubrication
Now he’s pooping pots of gold
We'll drink a draft or two
Of Damiel’s Patent Mutagen Brew
It works on any sentient race
You may not get what you ever expected
But you’ll be totally off your face
Mikaze was frantic, a hopeless romantic.
Wanted Men and Orcs to wed
But after they rubbed on some Rootagen Powder
Now they're never out of bed
TriOmegaZero, the Caydean hero
Would pour anything down his throat
He hosted a hearty fraternity party
And now's he's fathering a goat
We'll drink a draft or two
Of Damiel’s Patent Mutagen Brew
It works on any sentient race
You may not get what you ever expected
But you’ll be totally off your face
Ashton Sperry was notably merry
From the Muse-Booze he'd imbibed
Till the morning, when he was drawn in
Inside the pictures he had scribed.
Mister Timitius found potions delicious
Wondered what could be the harm.
One too many deadlines, then we all read the headlines,
'Man Grows Extra Pair Of Arms'
We'll drink a draft or two
Of Damiel’s Patent Mutagen Brew
It works on any sentient race
You may not get what you ever expected
But you’ll be totally off your face
Poor Damiel, he became unwell, he
Self-medicated till he burst.
But with a final, defiant gamble,
He dared the Gods to do their worst
To the Cathedral he ascended
The Starstone pulsing holy power.
And now it's time to pack them all in;
The Church is calling Happy Hour!
We'll drink a draft or two
Of Damiel’s Patent Mutagen Brew
It works on any sentient race
You may not get what you ever expected
But you’ll be totally off your face
Has anyone given any attention to the rational for the crafting times for various items in the chart at the end of this product? The line at the top mentions using the items mentioned as a 'guide' for other alchemical items, but it really doesnt give any reasons for why something might require specific regeants, or tools/crafting processes. It appears that some of the crafting times follow the chosen process, but not all of them.
I really like the idea and the flavor, but I wish the chart at the back was a bit more exhaustive, or if at least a bit of word count was devoted to explaining to gms how to actually use this concept for the large amount of alchemical items not listed in the product.
Is this book a hardback or a softcover?
All of the Player Companions are softcovers. The only hardbacks are the PFRPG line of books (Core Rulebook, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate books, etc.)
With the exception of the special releases like Rise of the Runelords, Inner Sea Gods or Emerald Spire.