Tower shields and Paladins

Can a Paladin use a tower shield by taking the tower shied feat, even though the class feature says:

Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Yes but don't do it. Even fighters who get it free are never worth using it. The armor check penalty to attack makes it useless.

If by the "tower shield feat" you mean Tower Shield Proficiency, then yes they can.

The line you quoted is simply saying that they don't start out being proficient with the tower shield unless they take that feat.

Yes. The problem is the tower shield has restrictions in it's use. +4 to Shield AC is nice but you only get a +2 to Dex AC and you take a - 2 to hit in combat. It's nice but not worth taking a feat for.

Yes but don't do it. Even fighters who get it free are never worth using it. The armor check penalty to attack makes it useless.

Thankfully there are some excellent options in the Armor Masters Handbook that make the Tower Shield less of a black sheep and fairly viable.

@Hubaris like what?

MeanMutton wrote:

Yes but don't do it. Even fighters who get it free are never worth using it. The armor check penalty to attack makes it useless.

Thankfully there are some excellent options in the Armor Masters Handbook that make the Tower Shield less of a black sheep and fairly viable.

I can't access any of the Armor Master's Handbook options yet, but when I can, thanks for reminding me that it's worth seeing if these can be added onto the Tower Shieldadin concept.

There is a shield style, three feats that essentially grant you the good parts of a Tower Shield Fighter (nullifies the penalty, add shield to touch AC), with some other goodies (by the end you can set up the shield as an immediate action, and also provide total cover to an adjacent ally). It's called Mobile Bulwark style. It requires Shield Focus to get, though; you wouldn't be able to pick up the first feat until 3rd level if you're a human.

The Sacred Shield archetype of paladin can make excellent use of a towershield. I would personally not do it, but that's solely becayse paladins are pretty feat-starved as it is. *If* you decide to go that route, consider dipping 1 level fighter, rather than taking the feat the hard way.

Thanks all, cleared up the interpretation for me.

Just to be clear, you don't take the ACP as a penalty to attack rolls, you take a flat -2.

Here are two screeds on my blog about tower shields. You may find them useful.

Tower Shields 1

Tower Shields 2

TL;DR -- Powerful Takeaway A: you can use a ready action to set your shield when you are attacked. Powerful Takeaway B: A set tower shield is selectively permeable. You and your friends can attack through it, but your enemies cannot.

Here are two screeds on my blog about tower shields. You may find them useful.

Tower Shields 1

Tower Shields 2

TL;DR -- Powerful Takeaway A: you can use a ready action to set your shield when you are attacked. Powerful Takeaway B: A set tower shield is selectively permeable. You and your friends can attack through it, but your enemies cannot.

Quick note to correct your "Takeaway B":

That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only.

So it has no impact on your enemies' ability to target your allies. Your foes can still attack through it as long as they don't target you.

Quick note to correct your "Takeaway B":

Quote:

That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only.

So it has no impact on your enemies' ability to target your allies. Your foes can still attack through it as long as they don't target you.

True, good point, but if you are holding a doorway or a narrow passage, AND the enemy has no ranged attacks, it amounts to the same thing. Which is to say, utility of the Tower Shield varies with the tactical situation. I like to do things like use a Tree Feather Token or created wall to narrow a gap, then hold the gap with a set tower shield. If you are Enlarged, your shield is twice as wide, and that can be very useful too.

And if your ally can Spring Attack or shoot or use a reach weapon through your space, so much the better.

Byakko wrote:

Quick note to correct your "Takeaway B":

Quote:

That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only.

So it has no impact on your enemies' ability to target your allies. Your foes can still attack through it as long as they don't target you.

True, good point, but if you are holding a doorway or a narrow passage, AND the enemy has no ranged attacks, it amounts to the same thing. Which is to say, utility of the Tower Shield varies with the tactical situation. I like to do things like use a Tree Feather Token or created wall to narrow a gap, then hold the gap with a set tower shield. If you are Enlarged, your shield is twice as wide, and that can be very useful too.

And if your ally can Spring Attack or shoot or use a reach weapon through your space, so much the better.

Remember that if you have (Total) Cover from the Tower Shield, some burst and emanation effects are also reduced in effectiveness; gaining various Reflex bonuses and sometimes even negating it if the Cover is total.

@JamesRisner: I don't know how much I can say but there is the mobile tree that Ninjaxenomorph pointed out.There is also a Shield Mastery ability which allows you to one hand a two handed spear weapon when using a shield (a la Phalanx) and one that reduces the ACP and Max Dex penalty by a decent amount.

There is a shield style, three feats that essentially grant you the good parts of a Tower Shield Fighter (nullifies the penalty, add shield to touch AC), with some other goodies (by the end you can set up the shield as an immediate action, and also provide total cover to an adjacent ally). It's called Mobile Bulwark style. It requires Shield Focus to get, though; you wouldn't be able to pick up the first feat until 3rd level if you're a human.

Style feats eat a swift action to start though.

That's fine for a Fighter or Barbarian, but very icky on a Paladin, who want to be using his smite as early as possible, and likely his LoH most of the rest of the time.

Just to be clear, you don't take the ACP as a penalty to attack rolls, you take a flat -2.

. . . Unless you are trying to use Weapon Finesse, and then you get hit with both the flat -2 and the Armor Check Penalty. I can't remember seeing anything other than Armor Training(*) that gets you off the hook for the Shield Armor Check Penalty if you are using Weapon Finesse.

(*)And if your Armor Training is not enough to reduce the combined Armor Check Penalty from your Armor and Shield to 0, does it first deduct from the Armor Check Penalty from the Shield or from the Armor?

Remember that as a paladin you need a hand free to make use of lay on hands. Making a buckler or light shield more optimal than a heavy or tower shield.

Just get weapon cord. Drop as a free action, lay on hands, recover as a swift action. No reason to give up a large shield/tower shield.

Just get weapon cord. Drop as a free action, lay on hands, recover as a swift action. No reason to give up a large shield/tower shield.

Recovering a weapon from the cord is a move action.