Have you seen the photos on Cool Stuff Inc?
I really hope these pictures are not what my figures look like when they arrive. Some of these are out right ugly bad. And the number with Super Glue ghosting is not good either.
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Having looked on ebay the pics look about the same across the board. Some of those paint jobs look aweful! I really noticed the severe glue ghosting in the skull/shackles set and hoped it might be a one off production issue. It appears to have resurfaced here but not as badly, so I think I just got unlucky with a case. Now the photos are liekly to be very misleading, extreme close ups and bad lighting rarely show off the minis very well so ultimately I'll wait until I have mine in hand.
Overall its a mixed bag for me; many of the sculpts are great but look to be let down by the paint - I'm looking at you Serpent Demon. Some of the sculpts don't live up to the production proofs and look terrible by comparison, one of my favs King Irovetti looks truly awful in some pics, really bad facial features, well none really.
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When you take macro pictures (close-ups) of a miniature like this you see all the little ugly details in pre-painted miniatures in general. It is the problem with pre-painted miniatures and painted ones as well (metal). It still remains one of the best ways to find the flaws as a painter might when painting miniatures professionally.
It is also the main reason why I tend to look at the smaller pictures when I look at the previews of them online. It does not show the flaws as much and it is what we WOULD see when we buy them... unless we are looking at them with magnifying glasses.
Unless you want a miniature painted professionally and by this I mean one you might pay upwards of $200+ for. Then a pre-painted miniature is extremely well done when they give us the ones we have seen from Wizkids. When we see DDM minis blown up... trust me they are far far worse then what we are seeing in the Wizkids miniatures..
So myself I love the paint jobs on the Pathfinder Battle Minis I have seen thus far and will do so for a very long time. If I want it done to the point where I can look at one in extreme close up pictures.. I will paint them myself and redo them :)
So please keep this in mind when you look at them like this. They were not truly meant to be. But if you expect them to be so well done that it looks great even when up against a pro job that you spend the big bucks for as I mentioned earlier, then you might want to start looking elsewhere.
I wish you luck :)
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Not going to argue with you there Deanoth; photos are unflattering. To me its less the paint jobs, since I can repaint. The glue ghosting and the poor detail worry me more. But then I imagine we are spoiled by the greatly improved quality we now get over the previous DDM minis. To date I have been really impressed by the line and the detail wizkids manage to put into the sculpts. I hope the line flourishes, I've said many times that each set seems to improve on the previous one and I think overall this one continues that trend.
As a whole I'm personally pretty happy with the set and I'm certain in-hand I'll have many good things to say. I can tell with 100% certainty you at this time the goblins and kobolds will see my old DDM minis relegated to storage. I also really like the look of the eagle knights.
One thing for Erik. I thought you said somewhere that the 54th mini was your oddball inclusion (I may well be wrong). Surely it's not the Balor this time? Is it the gorilla King?
Also since there are so may cool demons in this set (fire, serpent, toad, death) whats going into the WotR set to top this (I know you won't say but it's worth a try)?
When you take macro pictures (close-ups) of a miniature like this you see all the little ugly details in pre-painted miniatures in general.
I agree with this and know it to be true. I don't even like close up macro shots of my high priced paint job minis.
But what I was refering to were things like the Goblin with a large chunk of his face that is black because it is unpainted for example. That is not a "minor flaw of a PPM" that is a major miss. Flesh tone and hair colors shifting back and forth are minor flaws. A gold line that does not go all the way around a cuff is a minor flaw. And those kinds of things I expect in my PPMs. If my figures look even close to the official Piazo photos then I will be fine. But some fo the Cool Stuff Inc. Photos are beyond minor flaw status. And yes, I said some, not all. There are some that would be fine for PPMs.
I guess it is a matter of the size and severity of the flaws that make the difference.
Either way, I will know soon enough.
Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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i just opened two bricks of this set that i got from the local brick and mortar hobby shop, and one booster was missing one of the three small/medium figures. not quite sure who to contact about this.
For Wizkids products purchased through retailers other than paizo.com you can contact Wizkids support for issues regarding minis. Their website is http://wizkidsgames.com/support/.
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Yeah, it seems that quality is weird with this set. Orc archer, goblin pyro and eagle knight all have one copy that the face has too thin a layer of paint on, but other copies that are fine.. my greatest sigh is my queen's paint job... she has no eyes - I think that step was missed on the masking of my copy
Have you seen the photos on Cool Stuff Inc?
I really hope these pictures are not what my figures look like when they arrive. Some of these are out right ugly bad. And the number with Super Glue ghosting is not good either.
My case turned out MUCH better than these pictures, thank god. In general I'm very happy, but some of the minis turned out better/worse than the pictures. I'll review soon.
So... opened my case of Legends of Golarion today... and on the whole I must say I am very disappointed...
Pros:
1) Distribution - Once again, buying a sealed case got me at least one of every miniature in the set. So, the only set they have missed this mark on thus far was Rise of the Runelords...
Cons:
1) Figure Selection - This was billed as Legends of Golarion... and while seeing a King and Queen is nice (they certainly both belong)... on the whole I really don't feel the set lived up to its name.
With so many adventure paths and source books to draw from, I was really hoping to see a truly awe inspiring selection of personalities from around the Pathfinder world. Instead we are given goblins with torches and marsh giants and a weird selection of monsters I don't even recognize? Weird...
2) Quality - The painting in this set was far, far below expectation. We're talking D&D minis bad here, folks. And no, I don't expect Golden Daemon level paint jobs... but what I do expect is for the painting to be as good as it was on the earlier sets.
The painting in Heroes and Monsters and in Rise of the Runelords was great. I was thrilled with how awesome the minis looked. With this set, not so much. I don't know if Wizkids changed the paint they were using, started using less paint, started using a different glue, or process, or what... but the paint jobs on these are bad... really, really bad. Like several of the figures look like they have leprosy bad...
Also I couldn’t help but notice that the quality was a dramatic step down from the production proofs shown on the Paizo blog and on other sites. This sort of smacks of Wizkids showing Erik one thing and then releasing something different to the public…
Unfortunately, if this is the level of quality that can be expected from Wizkid’s revised release schedule, I will have to look elsewhere to get my pre-painted miniatures… and I doubt I’ll be the only one…
2) Quality - The painting in this set was far, far below expectation. We're talking D&D minis bad here, folks. And no, I don't expect Golden Daemon level paint jobs... but what I do expect is for the painting to be as good as it was on the earlier sets.
I have not received my minis as of yet, so I cannot comment with my opinion.
However, I’ve been seeing this brought up more and more with LoG lately that it is a bit worrisome.
I will hold judgment until I see my minis, but if the quality is slipping like many have said, I hope this gets nipped (from Paizo) and quickly.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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2) Quality - The painting in this set was far, far below expectation. We're talking D&D minis bad here, folks. And no, I don't expect Golden Daemon level paint jobs... but what I do expect is for the painting to be as good as it was on the earlier sets.
I have not received my minis as of yet, so I cannot comment with my opinion.
However, I’ve been seeing this brought up more and more with LoG lately that it is a bit worrisome.
I will hold judgment until I see my minis, but if the quality is slipping like many have said, I hope this gets nipped (from Paizo) and quickly.
I opened two cases yesterday, and I can confirm that it's pretty bad.
There are some stellar ones (many of the large figures, most of the kobolds, the goblins). But there are some atrocious ones, too. The hellknights are both incredibly disappointing. The look old and weathered rather than dominating and threatening. And the Janni's head is one of the worst paint jobs I've ever seen, seconded by the Knight of Ozem. Their faces spill onto their hair, giving them a comical look that is impossible to get past.
The worst, however, is Sajan. The white straps that cross his chest obviously fooled whoever did his painting into thinking Sajan was a lady; they turned those straps and his pectorals into a bra. Better, the poor man's nipples were left unpainted, so they're poking through his cups. It's so bad I have no choice but to do some touch-up in order to put them in my display.
I opened two cases yesterday, and I can confirm that it's pretty bad.There are some stellar ones (many of the large figures, most of the kobolds, the goblins). But there are some atrocious ones, too. The hellknights are both incredibly disappointing. The look old and weathered rather than dominating and threatening. And the Janni's head is one of the worst paint jobs I've ever seen, seconded by the Knight of Ozem. Their faces spill onto their hair, giving them a comical look that is impossible to get past.
The worst, however, is Sajan. The white straps that cross his chest obviously fooled whoever did his painting into thinking Sajan was a lady; they turned those straps and his pectorals into a bra. Better, the poor man's nipples were left unpainted, so they're poking through his cups. It's so bad I have no choice but to do some touch-up in order to put them in my display.
This is very disappointing to hear.
I would like to think this would be accidental on WizKids part, but with how many miniatures I am hearing that the paint job is poor, makes me wonder. I could be wrong (and hoping it’s the case), but it makes me think it more has to do with the main sets doing well and corners are being cut to get them out more quickly and cheaply.
It’s not something I would believe Paizo would originally be aware of. The masters being shown to Erik I am sure are top notch, but once the mass production starts it doesn’t sound like that is what is being manufactured.
I am certain Paizo has their own sets they look over (besides the masters) and hopefully is seeing the drop in quality and it is something that is being looked into.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I am of the same opinion. Only thing I can say is that the warnings were there: Skull & Shackles had some suspect ones, too, and WizKids ramping up the production schedule is a huge indicator that they'll start railroading the process.
I will be very hesitant to buy as much of the next set as I have of everything up to now (I was good for 10-20 cases per set prior to this).
I first want to say that my post made it sound like it was more devious and underhanded on WizKids part. I don’t believe that is the case.
What Erik had told me at GenCon was the reason we would be seeing several sets being released in close succession was due to Shattered Star being delayed. But it would level out to close to 3 sets a year.
I have to agree with you in I think rushing these sets is what’s causing these problems. I know it’s easier to look back now and say what should have been done, but I feel they should have just released the sets on the pace they wanted to, than trying to “catch up”.
If my theory is accurate, then unfortunately Wrath of the Righteous is probably going to suffer as well. Which is a real shame as there are a lot of miniatures I really want from that set.
Again, I could be wrong, but in a sense I hope I am not wrong and the problems are due to rushing the sets, as that would only be a temporary problem and hopefully would be ironed out when the sets release on more normal schedule. Because the alternative is that the quality would be slipping on a more permanent basis, and that would mean there are much worse issues than sets being rushed.
I will be very hesitant to buy as much of the next set as I have of everything up to now (I was good for 10-20 cases per set prior to this).
I'm assuming those are cases you buy to sell for your store. :) I am curious Drogon, have customers been buying less of the cases/bricks/boosters at your store? Not trying to sound critical, but it sounded as if you are buying less miniatures to sell at the store because you are unhappy of the quality. But if they are still selling well, why purchase less cases? Is it more of a factor of principle (which I certainly respect)?
Again, not trying to sound critical, I am just curious.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Agreed. I'd like to see them get back to a "regular" pace, and see the quality get back to what it was. Right now it just feels rushed, and I wish it weren't.
My own customers' feedback has been "too expensive." I lost a lot of preorders for S&S when LoG was announced, and when word started getting around about bad production quality some of my guys scaled way back on their commitments. And most have said they would stay scaled back if sets are supposed to be 3 per year and the risk of bad value is there.
We'll see.
And, yes, like you I was really excited by WotR. There are never enough demons to go around. (-:
What Erik indicated was it probably would be just shy of 3 sets a year. If I remember correctly, at one point had said it would work out to approximately 3 sets every 13-14 months. Although don't quote me on that number.
When I've spoken with him, and from reading his posts, I can see the excitement and love he has for the PFB line. I have complete confidence that he (and Paizo in general) will do his (their) best to resolve all of the issues that are cropping up. The question is when will we start to see a change. From what I recall, I believe it is two sets out that are always being worked on.
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I think Wizkids telling their painting crew, "Paint better" should not be a difficult task to undertake, so it should be fixable a bit faster. Maybe that's just me and my management background, though. /-:
um... I think its 'masking' by computers, and not done by hand based on some of Erik's comments on earlier sets
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I think Wizkids telling their painting crew, "Paint better" should not be a difficult task to undertake, so it should be fixable a bit faster. Maybe that's just me and my management background, though. /-:um... I think its 'masking' by computers, and not done by hand based on some of Erik's comments on earlier sets
Really? I thought it was, um, "inexpensive" labor from oversees.
If it was a computer, then there is no excuse at all for the man-bra that Sajan is wearing...
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Yes, I’m pretty certain all the sets in PFB have been automated. So if any changes are made to improve WoR, it would need to be done before the set goes into production. And since it’s only 2 months away, I’m guessing that will be very soon, if it hasn’t started already.
It would definitely mean the delay of the set, but I think most of us are ok with that, especially if it brings the quality of the paint job back up.
Also would give those of us with budgetary concerns a little breathing room.
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I bought three boosters today, and I have to say I'm less than impressed with the quality. As Drogon said, goblins are pretty good, but otherwise the minis seem to be just as bad as those macro pictures/close-ups on other sites, except you can easily spot the flaws with naked eye.
It's almost as bad as the first 4E mini sets, which were done cheaply.
Chief Technical Officer
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There is virtually no automation in painting. Masks are aids for freehand painters.
Believe me, we're not happy about hearing many of you are dissatisfied with the paint jobs. There's always some variation in painting, but we have generally been seeing production paint samples coming very close to the paint masters we approve, which, if you follow Erik's blogs, have been getting better and better.
Keep telling us about these—and better yet, link to photos; we'd like to make sure this is addressed with WizKids ASAP.
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Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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Keep telling us about these—and better yet, link to photos; we'd like to make sure this is addressed with WizKids ASAP.I can't post a picture of Sajan. It's too close to porn...
If you'd rather not post it, you can send it to customer.service@paizo.com. Visual examples of issues are very useful.
My subscription set hasn't shipped yet, but this is worrisome... If the quality is poor, will you allow replacements?
No problem... I sent an e-mail to customer service with ten examples of the sub-par quality that the customers have received....
Hope it helps!
There is virtually no automation in painting. Masks are aids for freehand painters.
My mistake and apologies. I really did not think the miniatures were still handpainted, this is good to hear at least.
Believe me, we're not happy about hearing many of you are dissatisfied with the paint jobs. There's always some variation in painting, but we have generally been seeing production paint samples coming very close to the paint masters we approve, which, if you follow Erik's blogs, have been getting better and better.
Keep telling us about these—and better yet, link to photos; we'd like to make sure this is addressed with WizKids ASAP.
I haven't gotten mine yet. But when I do I will go through them and be sure to post any (if) I have issues with.
Thanks for responding, Vic.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If you'd rather not post it, you can send it to customer.service@paizo.com. Visual examples of issues are very useful.Keep telling us about these—and better yet, link to photos; we'd like to make sure this is addressed with WizKids ASAP.I can't post a picture of Sajan. It's too close to porn...
I was kinda kidding, I have to admit, mostly because his paint job amuses me so much.
But I will email a picture or two, especially as photo posting isn't something I am versed in. Not back in the shop until tomorrow, though, so can't get them to you today. Sorry. )-:
PS - I have been selling pre-painted minis for a long time. This set is very cool, regardless of the spotty paint jobs. I just want to be sure that's clear. DDM had some terrible "what the hell?" moments, too, and all of those sets sold just fine, and are now sought after. These will be fine, too, even if they require a bit of touching up (which is still far easier than painting anything from scratch).
More than anything, I hope it's clear that I am not holding Paizo responsible for Sajan's nipslip. (-;
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There is virtually no automation in painting. Masks are aids for freehand painters.
Believe me, we're not happy about hearing many of you are dissatisfied with the paint jobs. There's always some variation in painting, but we have generally been seeing production paint samples coming very close to the paint masters we approve, which, if you follow Erik's blogs, have been getting better and better.
Keep telling us about these—and better yet, link to photos; we'd like to make sure this is addressed with WizKids ASAP.
Thanks for your quick reply, Vic!
There may be some variation in painting, but the ones I got from those three boosters look exactly like in the pics on Cool Stuff Inc (linked above).
Like I said, my goblin pyro looks good, but most of the minis have dark splotches of paint all over them in a way that appears to be an awkward attempt at washing; it's like I had painted them myself (and I'm pretty lousy at it, believe me). Or maybe it's black paint underneath that is showing through, 'cause some minis seem to show raggedness and wear in a not-so-good way, i.e. the coat is too thin. The marsh giant is passable, because I picture them being covered in grime and filth. However, with medium or small figures this looks ugly and annoying; for example, the Eagle Knight officer looks like he's been trekking through sewers and taken a few punches in his face, and orc mystic and orc soldier don't look much better either. I didn't even recognise kobold chieftain was at first (had to peek underneath to see its name).
Derhii, snow leopard, akata and marid look okay, although the latter two are a bit "two-dimensional" with thick layers of paint (it's *too* thick without a proper wash).
Yeah, most of the small and medium minis look like someone used too little paint on them, and then applied a quick and unsuccessful wash with shaking hands. :(
Is the quality likely to be better with the singles?
I rather pay half the price of a case to get a third of the items
when this gives me the numbers I want in the quality I'm used to
Buying singles would not change the quality. Same minis...
same minis, but the singles I got from Shatered Star, Skull & Shackles and Rise of Runelords where packed differently than the minis in the case of Monsters & Heros: There was no cardboard box, only plastc.
So maybe the paint shop is sorting the quality control fails in the boxes where they won't be noticed till the end customer unpacks them.
Way to fulfil the quantity quota till the painters are trained.
All the minis start out packed in boxes. Those sold as singles are unboxed and bagged by the merchant after they receive their shipment of cases/bricks.
One of my buddies bought a brick, and one of his Kobolds was missing a head. Completely missing from the box. I can't find a stat block for a headless Kobold so I guess we'll have to make one to get use out of this mini.
Kobold zombie! The legendary Headless Kobold of Drowsy Hollow. Cultist of Ydersius?
Buying singles would not change the quality. Same minis...same minis, but the singles I got from Shatered Star, Skull & Shackles and Rise of Runelords where packed differently than the minis in the case of Monsters & Heros: There was no cardboard box, only plastc.
So maybe the paint shop is sorting the quality control fails in the boxes where they won't be noticed till the end customer unpacks them.
Way to fulfil the quantity quota till the painters are trained.
I really don't believe this is realistic. It would mean WizKids did it at the China Factory where they are boxed. I expect the singles will show the same level as the boxes.
I really don't believe this is realistic. It would mean WizKids did it at the China Factory where they are boxed. I expect the singles will show the same level as the boxes.
I was asuming that WizKids doesn't have a miniatures factory in China.
Just like Apple doesn't have an iPod factory and Nike doesn't have a shoe factory...If the singles get unpacked from cases in the warehouse, Paizo should have a whole lot of examples sitting on the shelf and not need to ask customers for pictures.
The problem is not that crappy paint jobs happen, it's that they end up in the boxes.
One of my buddies bought a brick, and one of his Kobolds was missing a head. Completely missing from the box. I can't find a stat block for a headless Kobold so I guess we'll have to make one to get use out of this mini.
If you go to their website, WizKids has a product replacement system. Your friend can essentially apply to mail his kobold back to WizKids and he'll receive a replacement in a few weeks. I did this with the Mite on a Spider model from Rise of the Runelords.
I've just opened a case, and am overall pleased with the minis. However, there were a few so poor, that I have to mention them.
1. My black dragon is painted a dark teal blue. I assume it should have received a black wash but didn't.
2. The Janni looks like someone painted the face and then washed it with water/paint thinner. The face is streaked as though the paint ran and was allowed to dry streaky.
3. One of my Orc Soldiers is missing his cape; it did not come loose in the package; it's gone.
4. Sajan, as others have noted, is poorly painted and the painter(s) decided he's wearing a bra.
5. The Knight of Ozem is a Mage-Knight figure, and I don't mean this as a compliment. Poorly sculpted and poorly painted.
6. Both the Eagle Knight and Commander look like they received a hasty base coat and dry brush before being rushed out of the factory. Some of the Knights have mold flash that should have been trimmed before painting.
7. This one is the most displeasing to me: King Irovettti's face looks like it was painted with a trowel. The paint is so thick it totally obscures his features. I was really looking forward to this figure; the rest of it is perfectly painted, the sculpt is great, but what was done on the face is totally unacceptable, especially for a rare.
Regards,
V
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I opened my case this evening as was disappointed to find that I received a pair of duplicate bricks. :( No Queen Ileosa or Sandpoint Devil for me.
The paint jobs look fine to me, aside from a couple of figures, namely the Hellnights and Knight of Ozem.
I got a ton of kobolds (great, because I'm starting The Dragon's Demand in a couple weeks) and orcs, but I'm seriously bummed about the figures I missed out on. And I have a feeling that those rares are going to be particularly expensive (granted, I haven't looked yet).
Oh, and I did have one breakage: a Marid was off her base, but should be easy to fix.
-Skeld
As I posted elsewhere, I am very satisfied with the sculpts and paint schemes on this set. Some of the painting steps are a little off. I'll have to get out my camera and post a link. Miniature breakage was probably the least of any set yet for me - one of the medium humanoids foot was not attached to the base (no big deal), but one of my goblin pyro #2 is completely missing his torch arm. I couldn't even find it loose in the packaging in order to re-attach it. I likely won't bother with getting a replacement, since I did acquire a few other goblin pyro #2 with torch attached.
Why have the bricks not shipped if ordered directly from Paizo? The stores have them already. Are these going to ship anytime soon or should I cancel and buy them at the hobby stores.
In the past I would always get mine a few days before the stores had them which is why I ordered directly from Paizo. If the stores were going to get them first I would buy them at the stores.