Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.
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Nooooo! You are sending him off to his doom! We shall not see him again for MONTHS!
Orthos, you evil, evil person, you.
Force of Will comes at 6th tier according to Table 1-1 (p.12), but p.13 says it comes at 7th tier.
I apologize to everyone for not pointing this out to the devs, I was following Monte Cook's advice: (to paraphrase) "don't nitpick errors, that's what editors are for." I believe I'll disregard him in the future.
I'm a bit disappointed there isn't mythic fabricate, polymorph any object. Were they left out by intent or for page-count reasons?
The path abilities look good, though I'm still not sure how to render Byakuren into Pathfinder mechanics. No fault of Paizo, though.
Running a Mythic Game (ch.4) feels like the strongest chapter to me.
Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.
You get it in different path abilities. The Champion gets Crusader, the Marshal gets Loyalty. There may be more in other paths.
Flanderization: The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character. Most always, the trait/action becomes completely outlandish and it becomes their defining characteristic. Sitcoms and Sitcom characters are particularly susceptible to this, as are peripheral characters in shows with long runs.
Especially Ned Flanders. :)
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Although I don't agree with Peter's tone, I do agree with most of his criticisms. I'll also add that it seems so far that the mythic progression encourages character flanderisation.
After a first reading, my impression is as follows:
4/5 stars for concepts
2/5 stars for mechanics
0/5 stars for not listening to playtestThe book is a disappointment for me, but not so bad that I can't houserule it into usability.
I'm in agreement with this.
Peter, Calm down and stop cussing - Just say you don't like something and explain why if you can.
I love the concept of Mythic, so I will be doing some houseruling to get the mechanics a bit more inline.
But I am annoyed that the Playtest feedback wasn't just ignored... I feel like it was never really seen AT ALL beyond a small thing here or there. Big issues were raised (ability score increases and mythic vampire [which was actually NERFED from the playtest]), things that left us confused (how does Metamagic work with Mythic spells?) talked about and pointed out, yet many, many of these issues saw no revisions in this book.
This coupled with the fact that they couldn't alert us when the Playtest was over before unceremoniously closing the forum and saying "Hey, thanks for trying Mythic out but we have to ignore all of your ideas because we already sent the book to the printer and stopped paying attention to these forums a LONG time ago" - I can see why it'd be bit infuriating. If Paizo wants us to be part of making their system work, we'd love that - I'm certain many Paizo fans do enjoy these playtests - but something needs to be done to facilitate communication and DIALOGUE. This playtest desperately lacked dialogue.
Don't think so. "One single time per day" is kind of the opposite of "multiple".
As for the "4 level higher" thing, that is still limited by your actual character level.
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For more info click hereNooooo! You are sending him off to his doom! We shall not see him again for MONTHS!
Orthos, you evil, evil person, you.
Yesssssssssssssss....
Especially Ned Flanders. :)Flanderization: The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character. Most always, the trait/action becomes completely outlandish and it becomes their defining characteristic. Sitcoms and Sitcom characters are particularly susceptible to this, as are peripheral characters in shows with long runs.
That would be the namesake, yes ;)
As for the latter, where does it say you are limited by your character level? For example, the "inspired spell" ability of a hierophant lets you treat your caster level as 2 higher. If a cleric 20/hierophant 1 used this to cast a spell, wouldn't it also be used at caster level 22nd? Or did I miss something?
Yeah, you are actually right on that one. The Mythic Bloodline ability of the Archmage simply doesn't grant you the power sooner, but when you have it, you are considered 4 class levels higher for purposes of its use. My bad, read it wrong the first time.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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I took a look at a friend's copy of this, and a lot of it seems really excellent and interesting.
That said, this book could've used another year of development and another round of playtesting. It feels way too rushed in some spots, as others have cited above.
I'll have a more critical analysis of it all next month after my huge bundle of shipped goods arrives.
Overall I love this book. Fantastical artwork and really cool stuff I can't wait to use in my home game. I do however kinda wish they had some examples of Legendary items though.
I don't really understand the difference between the third tier Champion path Maximized Critical and the sixth tier path Critical Master. Reading Critical Master I have no idea why I would ever want to take Maximized Critical?
Overall I love this book. Fantastical artwork and really cool stuff I can't wait to use in my home game. I do however kinda wish they had some examples of Legendary items though.
I don't really understand the difference between the third tier Champion path Maximized Critical and the sixth tier path Critical Master. Reading Critical Master I have no idea why I would ever want to take Maximized Critical?
What do they do?
Apologies if already asked... who did the artwork for...
1) All the iconics in the paths section
2) Seoni on page 101
'Cause wow. Love the former because... it's hard to put my finger on it, but everyone looks really heroic, good strong poses.
Latter also this, but is also just so pretty and I like that paint style.
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Apologies if already asked... who did the artwork for...
1) All the iconics in the paths section
2) Seoni on page 101
'Cause wow. Love the former because... it's hard to put my finger on it, but everyone looks really heroic, good strong poses.
Latter also this, but is also just so pretty and I like that paint style.
The Iconics were illustrated by Eric Belisle (you can find more illustrations by him in our blog), and the Seoni illustration is by Jason Rainville (and some more illustrations in the blog). :)
Hey, so, I was very confused by the rules for legendary items. Is there any way to ascend them other than taking the universal path ability of "legendary item"? Also, I think it would go a long way if somebody posted a detailed example legendary item.
Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.You get it in different path abilities. The Champion gets Crusader, the Marshal gets Loyalty. There may be more in other paths.
I was thinking more like the old Epic Leadership feat that gives hundreds of 1st level followers.
I was thinking more like the old Epic Leadership feat that gives hundreds of 1st level followers.Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.You get it in different path abilities. The Champion gets Crusader, the Marshal gets Loyalty. There may be more in other paths.
Those path abilities stack with Leadership and even enhance it at the same time.
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I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10 after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
With GenCon, it's going to take some time with the shipping. You just gotta be patient. They are working at it.
Are there any other subscibers who haven't yet gotten their pdfs for this product? Or is it just me. I've never ever had to wait until after the product went public to access my subscriber pdf before. But I still haven't gotten mine yet.
I don't have mine yet either. I'm sure it's just because of GenCon. It's unfortunate, but such things happen. I'm not too worried. I will just wait (im)patiently.
-Kcinlive
Only through a couple of paths, but after looking at feats and spells I see no real means to make your summoned monsters any better. Is a conjurer just boned? Really? I'm supposed to throw CR 14 monsters against CR 25's at 20/10?
Yeah, I kinda also noticed the distinct lack of conjuration options. I guess you can say that there are options for the Marshal, Guardian and Hierophant to enhance them, but those aren't exactly the standard paths I would want to take as a conjuration specialist.
There aren't even mythic summon spells, aside from Summon Swarm.
I think when you get to the point of fighting CR25+ monsters, you'd probably want to bust out Planar Ally and Planar Binding instead. Although, I am surprised and disappointed to not see any Mythic versions of any of the summoning spells, even if conjuration is already a strong school.
Those path abilities stack with Leadership and even enhance it at the same time.I was thinking more like the old Epic Leadership feat that gives hundreds of 1st level followers.Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.You get it in different path abilities. The Champion gets Crusader, the Marshal gets Loyalty. There may be more in other paths.
Well, yes, but only the Crusader option gives you more followers beyond the limit of a Leadership score of 25 and even then it's only doubling the number of followers, as opposed to the possible 1,000 1st followers with Epic Leadership.
Apparently you are still supposed to stay within your normal level WBL limits?
Are there any other subscibers who haven't yet gotten their pdfs for this product? Or is it just me. I've never ever had to wait until after the product went public to access my subscriber pdf before. But I still haven't gotten mine yet.
I am in the same boat as you. :(
Only through a couple of paths, but after looking at feats and spells I see no real means to make your summoned monsters any better. Is a conjurer just boned? Really? I'm supposed to throw CR 14 monsters against CR 25's at 20/10?
It seems the best means of making your summons better will be to use the Hierophant power Mighty Summons to give your summons either the Agile or Savage mythic templates.
While I doubt this will be enough to equal a CR 30, those templates are very powerful.
Apparently you are still supposed to stay within your normal level WBL limits?
It makes some sense if you think about it. Mythic Path Abilities are good enough to where the character isn't as dependent on magic items and such. So, there's little reason for them to have more money, despite being "higher level". Although to take on CR 26+ monsters, they'd probably want more treasure than their WBL gives them to take these challenges on.
Only through a couple of paths, but after looking at feats and spells I see no real means to make your summoned monsters any better. Is a conjurer just boned? Really? I'm supposed to throw CR 14 monsters against CR 25's at 20/10?It seems the best means of making your summons better will be to use the Hierophant power Mighty Summons to give your summons either the Agile or Savage mythic templates.
While I doubt this will be enough to equal a CR 30, those templates are very powerful.
Well, that, um, sucks. As far as I can see, there is no Hierophant divine surge which really fits an arcane caster (outside of a Summoner), unless you happen to have a really battle-fit familiar. Makes taking Dual Path to get that one path ability really a downer.
The Iconics were illustrated by Eric Belisle (you can find more illustrations by him in our blog), and the Seoni illustration is by Jason Rainville (and some more illustrations in the blog). :)Apologies if already asked... who did the artwork for...
1) All the iconics in the paths section
2) Seoni on page 101
'Cause wow. Love the former because... it's hard to put my finger on it, but everyone looks really heroic, good strong poses.
Latter also this, but is also just so pretty and I like that paint style.
Thank you. Want to keep an eye out for more of their work.
Like everything so far, but I was hoping for a Mythic Leadership feat.
There is sort of one. There is a Path Ability that doubles the number of Followers you get if you have Leadership. There is also a Path Ability that gives you Leadership for free and adds your Tier to your Leadership score. Marshal is awesome for Leadership.
But I am annoyed that the Playtest feedback wasn't just ignored... I feel like it was never really seen AT ALL beyond a small thing here or there. Big issues were raised (ability score increases and mythic vampire [which was actually NERFED from the playtest]), things that left us confused (how does Metamagic work with Mythic spells?) talked about and pointed out, yet many, many of these issues saw no revisions in this book.
Just because your feedback was seen doesn't mean that it was compelling. The developers aren't obligated to take your suggestions into account when designing their product because design isn't a democracy. I am sure that good points were brought up during the Playtest but they didn't match the design goals of Mythic Adventures. If you want to play Mythic using your suggestions, do it. Nothing's stopping you. Not even Pathfinder Society, because let's face it, chances are this entire book won't be Pathfinder Society Legal anyway. Can you imagine PFS tiers? Different GMs deciding when a character earned a tier with no guidelines or rules? That would be a nightmare. And everyone in the PFS can't be Mythic or Mythic itself means nothing.
Hey, so, I was very confused by the rules for legendary items. Is there any way to ascend them other than taking the universal path ability of "legendary item"? Also, I think it would go a long way if somebody posted a detailed example legendary item.
The rules seem to imply that you can be given a legendary item as part of a treasure hoard, but that's completely up to your GM. If you want to use your Mythic Powers to create your own signature weapon instead of using someone else's or don't feel like waiting for your GM to be nice to you, you can take the Path abilities to create your own.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
I agree with this. I feel like many of the naysayers are mega-optimizer types who don't like choices. They just want everything to stack to create the biggest explosion possible.
Actually, Odraude, I agree with everything you said in that post. I feel like we should be friends.
Only through a couple of paths, but after looking at feats and spells I see no real means to make your summoned monsters any better. Is a conjurer just boned? Really? I'm supposed to throw CR 14 monsters against CR 25's at 20/10?
Is summoning monsters really the only trick in the Conjurer's toolkit? Besides, Speedy Summons (allows you to summon creatures as a standard action instead of a full-round action) is pretty awesome and arguably a must-have for Summoners.
One table that I would have liked to see is wealth by level for PCs and NPCs. I know mythic tiers don't equal levels in character classes, but it still would have been nice to see the wealth-by-level charts expanded to at least 25th-level (representing a 20th-level/10th-tier character)
I don't remember where it is, but it is in the book. Its either in the Equipment Section or the Encounters section (leaning towards the latter). There's an XP Table and a Wealth table going all the way up to a CR 30 encounter.
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Alright. It is now officially maddening that my subscription has not been shipped yet. Paizo shipping goblins please hear my desperate plea!I'm right there with you...
-Kcinlive
You are not alone, friends ;-)
Praise be the mighty and I daresay Mythic goblins of shipping.
Goblins bring and Goblins pack.
Goblins get your products down from the rack.
Goblins enjoy a stealthy snack.
And put it all in the mailman's sack.
Continued...
The Legendary Champion ability seems a lot better than the True Archmage ability. Legendary champions reroll all misses against non-mythic creatures. True archmages make non-mythic enemies roll twice on saves against their spells. Archmage gives SR 15 + your highest arcane caster level vs. arcane spells only. 1/round when a mythic creature fails to beat this SR you regain a use of mythic power. Champion regains a use of mythic power 1/round each time he rolls a natural 20 on an attack roll (against any foe).
Champion Abilities (just highlighting things that stand out)
Always a chance - natural 1's don't miss
Armor Master - can take three times applying to light, medium, heavy armor. No check penalty or spell failure chance.
Backlash - every time a creature crits on you they provoke an AoO from you.
Blowback - standard action expend mythic power to make a melee or ranged attack. If you hit the opponent is knocked 10 xtier feet away from you. Takes damage if it hits something else / someone else.
Burst Through - ignore allies for the purpose of charge (e.g. charge through them), make combat maneuver check to push aside enemies and continue to charge - if success no AoOs from them, if fail resolve charge attack against foe.
Clean Blade - When you crit make a free action touch attack against a foe within 30ft. of you. If hit foe is sickened rounds = tier.
Climbing Master - gain +8 climb, 30ft. climb speed, can climb sheer walls at DC 40.
Crusader - gain leadership, add tier to score, followers within 100ft. can 1/day surge with your die size.
Devestating Smash - attacks against constructs or objects treat DR / Hardness as 10 less. Add tier to damage rolls against them. Expend mythic power to double bonuses for an attack (ignore hardness / DR).
Endless Hatred - Seems very meh. Expend mythic power to gain +2 to all bonuses against favorite enemies for 1 minute. Also ignores DR for the rest of your turn.
Ever Ready - add tier to attack / damage for AoOs. Make extra AoO per 3 levels. Can make AoO while flat-footed.
Flash of Rage - when you or ally are hit with crit, you can rage for rounds = tier, as barbarian feature. Does not require feature and rounds don't count against rage / day.
Impossible Speed - +30ft. to base speed. Expend mythic power to increase speed by 10 x tier feet for 1 hour.
Imprinting Hand - Seems really good - though I worry that mythic rocket tag with things like fleet charge make it meaningless.
Lession learned - gain a +5 bonus on saves against abilities you fail saves against for 1 minute / tier. Not sure this is likely to come up...
Limitless Range - seems like it wouldn't come up a lot, but useful when it does. At some point limits of perception are going to matter a lot more than range of weapons.
Mounted Maniac - while mounted can demoralize all foes when you charge while mounted with intimidate. Expend mythic power to frighten them instead. Add tier to result of check.
Mythic Ki / Rage / Smite - recharge some of each ability for a mythic point and you ignore all DR for the rest of the round.... there are lots of DR ignoring powers here. Seems like monks get screwed overall.
Weapon Training - gain proficiency with fighter weapon group. Add bonuses from feats to all weapons within group. Add tier to CMD against disarm and sunder checks. Very meh.
Punishing Blow - Always active - any enemy you hit loses regen / fast healing for 1 round. Critical hits make them lose DR for 1 round. Unbeatable regen ignores this.
Sunder Storm - Wow. Full round action expend a mythic point and attempt to sunder 1 item for each creature within reach. Ignores hardness. Items destroyed deal 1d6 + tier in piercing damage to owners. Bypasses DR.
Swimming Master - gain swim speed. Hold breath for 10 minutes x con score. Expend mythic power to increase speed by 10 x tier feet.
Tear Apart - Passive - standard action attempt sunder combat maneuver. If successful reduce targets armor bonus, natural armor bonus, or shield bonus by 1/2 your tier.
Uncanny Grapple - lets you throw opponents 10 feet per tier, use them as a weapon, or deal more damage to them.
Wall Smasher - This ability still sucks and is too complicated. It is also almost never going to actually come up in play, given the HP of most walls.
Tier 3 stuff
Destroyer - passive ignore hardness of all objects. Includes spell effects like wall of force.
Elemental Fury - expend mythic power as move action, gain immunity to 1 element and 1d6 damage from element to your attacks for round / tier. Choose new element each time you activate.
Fleet Warrior - Are you ****ing kidding me? Seriously? Really? Who thought up this bright idea? Passive - when you full attack you can also move your full speed before or active the attacks. Basically from now on martial characters full attack every round whenever they want. It is impossible to use positioning, and squishy characters will die like crazy. Horrible idea. Horrible. At least fleet charge had a cost.
Incredible Parry - as duelist ability - and can be used with against two attacks.
Maneuver Expert - No more AoOs from any combat maneuver - expend mythic power to use greater and improved feat for a maneuver.
Maximized Crit - crits from now on always do maximum damage.
Penetrating Damage - beats 1 type of DR from a list - can change with each attack.
Precision - reduce penalty for illerative attacks by 5 each time you take it.
To the Death - Die hard, except it sucks. Don't take this.
Unstoppable Shot - standard action turn your ranged attack into a line attack with normal range. Expend mythic power to make it bend up to twice in course of movement.
Tier 6
Critical Master - crit threats against non-mythic foes automatically confirm and do maximum damage. If you take this ability twice it applies to mythic foes as well. Wow.
Fist Full of Daggers - full round action use thrown weapons to attack in 30ft. cone. Make 1 attack roll, roll damage once, apply to all within range. does not require mythic power.
Perfect Strike - very complicated and not that interesting.
Shatter Spells - only works with unarmed / natural weapons. Target magical effect or creature, expend mythic power and subject creature to greater dispel magic - CL = x2 tier.
Sweeping Strike - As full attack action make an attack at every creature in your reach. Roll attack / damage once and apply to all. Seems really good with reach weapons and large size. does not require mythic power.
Some years ago I built an epic level fighter NPC, giving him loads of abilities and toys. People remarked that it seemed as though the character had been built in a rage against the idea of spellcaster superiority. Reading the mythic champion I feel the same way they did. A lot of this seems like it goes way overboard. Auto-confirming all crits, full attacking without penalties, full attacking and moving every round... and this is without expending mythic power. These guys will mow down enemies instantly. Ridiculous, especially with the existence of critical feats.
[u]Mythic Guardian[/u]
I'm not going over all of these abilities in detail at the moment, but after reading through my thought is that most suck. They're terrible and in no way on par with the ridiculous power-ups available to a mythic champion. There's a few abilities that could be useful (ranged disarm), but most of these abilities just aren't that good. They provide DR (which the majority of mythic attacks beat and is acheivable in larger amounts other ways) or other relatively meaningless abilities (like fast healing 5 for 1 minute at the cost of a mythic use). I was amused by the raise companion ability though - where you bury an animal companion, familiar, mount, and so forth and raise it from the dead the next day with a mythic use. Seems appropriate, since said creatures will drop like flies at mythic. Armored might is probably the best ability (increase AC provided by armor by 1/2 or 1/2 your tier - whichever is less), and it's not impressive. Overall this is a dud with too many weird nitch active abilities and crappy passives. Also, why the Hierophant has a crit immunity ability but the Guardian doesn't is one I'll never understand.
[u]Mythic Hierophant[/u]
Initial thoughts - the basic features are crap. Inspired Spell is wild arcana for divine casters - and is by far the best. The capstone (divine vessel) is comically good though, recharging mythic power every time you take 20 or more points of damage from any source. Yeah... Lots of other features are uninspiring and continue a trend of giving some new options but not actually increasing your power - as opposed to the champion. There are a few cool things - servant of the balance (immune to crits), undying healer (when you are unconscious a spirit shows up and can cast your healing spells), enduring blessing - extend duration of a 10 minute / level or 1 minute / level spell into a 24 hour spell (only 1 per creature), but on the whole there's a lot of crap here.
Sustained by faith was nerfed into requiring 1 hour, making it worse than the default tier ability at level 3.
Divine guardian is awful - terrible. Expend a mythic point to summon (as a full round action) a creature as per summon monster or summon natures ally with a spell level = half your tier. That's right, at Tier 10 it summons you a creature off the summon monster V list. You can expend two uses though to get at tier = level though, so it's only worse in every single way than inspired spell.
Inverted Spontaneous Casting is similarly horrible. Gain access to spontaneous cure or inflict if you don't have one, but the use a spell level 1 higher (e.g. 2nd level slot for cure light). Might have been ok without the higher level spell use. As is... bah.
Mighty Summons is a laugh - summoned creatures get DR 5 / epic. Expend a use to apply the agile or savage mythic template. I had to go back and check though - mythic archmages don't actually get this ability or anything like it. Guess it sucks to be a conjurer or summoner?
Arcane knowledge is as bad as the archmage version.
More Later...
I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10
after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
I agree with this post 100%!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I agree with this post 100%!I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10
after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
Ditto!
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I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10 after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
The problem me and Peter have with +10 isn't that it's an increase. It's that it's not +60 (I personally prefer +1/2 tier to all d20 rolls, class and racial DCs, and HD worth of HP gained (essentially con gain or toughness) with every even tier but the effect is nearly the same). The problem with +10 is that it benefits Single stat characters the greatest - Paladins, Casters - and hurts the MAD classes. The subject is complicated so I can't go into every detail here.
As to Surges. The problem with them using immediate actions is that, depending on your choices, a character is going to gain a glut of swift actions. This exacerbated by class that already have a lot of swift actions or need to use swift actions to be useful - I'm talking Magus but others such as Paladins with their Smite Evil, Sorcerer with Quickened Spells, and others. This becomes a problem if a creature forces an saving throw every round with an aura (see Nymph) because your own saving throws didn't increase while the monster's DC did (See above with why +10 is a problem). Also I would of preferred to make it a flat number (+2, +4, +6, +8) to not add additional die rolls and the time increases it adds to combats.
As to them not taking the feedback into account. The issues isn't just that but that they barely talked to us even with all our feedback. They didn't explain rationale for their choices. Yes there are a lot of threads so I know they can't post on every issue, but a few threads had a lot of posts and yet no comments or explanations.
Don't get me wrong, I am still pretty happy with this purchase. I just feel that it isn't quite right yet and could of used a bit more time and playtesting.
As to Surges. The problem with them using immediate actions is that, depending on your choices, a character is going to gain a glut of swift actions. This exacerbated by class that already have a lot of swift actions or need to use swift actions to be useful - I'm talking Magus but others such as Paladins with their Smite Evil, Sorcerer with Quickened Spells, and others. This becomes a problem if a creature forces an saving throw every round with an aura (see Nymph) because your own saving throws didn't increase while the monster's DC did (See above with why +10 is a problem). Also I would of preferred to make it a flat number (+2, +4, +6, +8) to not add additional die rolls and the time increases it adds to combats.
It seems that the way to help your saving throws is to get the improved versions of the Cloak of Resistance. They each give an additional +1 to a single save, and I think they let you use a mythic point to reroll that same type of save. Though the extra reroll is disabled for a day if you fail the new roll. Still, it is useful for protecting your worst saving throw.
While I wish that we weren't becoming even more dependent on resistance cloaks, I'm glad that this is at least an option.
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Ditto!I agree with this post 100%!I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10
after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
Yes.
First Paizo was kind enough to even do an open playtest is an amazing thing, a lot of other companies do not do this. Expecting Paizo to give an informed reason as to why they made every decision is a) silly and b) would take more room than the actual book.They listened we gave feedback, they changed things from alpha to beta and the design team went with what works for them. I doubt a lot of the naysayers have actually played a few games with this as of yet in it's current form so they are for the most part Theory Crafting. Sorry I will make my overall opinion after I've seen it played through in a few games.
Hell many of the things that people were complaining about I'm glad Paizo did the opposite... I liked Mythic Weapon Finesse one Mythic Feat that almost everyone was complaining about.
The changes made to Aerial Assault made it useful, another good thing that came out of the playtest (things that they listened to us about)...
So to be fair, they DID listen to our feedback, and they APPLIED many of the things we all discussed, they did not agree to some of it. That did not mean they ignored the playtest feedback...
I think it is funny that many people posting had equated did not agree with the feed back to being ignored the feedback completely.
For the most part I'm happy with this book and I'm glad I made the purchase, and I can't wait to apply this to my game.