Pathfinder Battles—Shattered Star: Gargantuan Blue Dragon

I bought the Blue Dragon for an additional $10 (talk about value) . . .

It was actually slightly cheaper to wait until the case+dragon was available as a regular order; at that point the Christmas bonus could be applied.

So, hypothetically, what if WizKids sold randomized cases, but only to vendors who immediately opened and sorted the figures. If those vendors priced and sold the minis individually, they would...what? Wind up with a bunch of figures no one wants and quickly sell out of the others? And if they tried to adjust prices to fit demand they'd still wind up with a glut of low priced unattractive minis and the prices on the popular ones would be sky-high? Is it fair to say that this business model essentially depends on getting people to buy minis they don't want?

Sort of. Look at the manufacturing end of things, not the retailing end of things and it'll be more clear.

To MAKE a mini that has a complicated sculpt and an intricate paint job with a bunch of applications, you might be looking at a COST of... let's say $20 for that mini. That mini would be a nice PC or NPC, or maybe a complicated monster.

To MAKE a mini that has a simple sculpt and a straightforward paint job with minimal applications, you might be looking at a COST of... let's say $.50 for that mini. That mini would be for a common animal or simple monster.

So. You recognize that by the time mark-up is applied at the retail level, the PC/NPC mini will end up costing $30 or $40 and you will sell exactly zero of that mini. You realize that if you balance your set, you can use the cheaper-to-produce minis to SUBSIDIZE the manufacturing of the more expensive minis. Note: this is nothing to do with demand, yet. You deliberately set things up so that at the random distribution, your more common (and frequently cheap) minis outnumber your rare (and expensive) minis such that the average cost is reasonable, say... $2 per mini.

You then sell your product in blind cases. People want wolves and gargoyles and wraiths and stuff that are simple & cheap but not necessarily AS MANY of them as your averaging REQUIRES to make the set work. So, blind it is.

If the product wasn't blind-packed, people who only want two wolves will buy two, instead of buying the three that you need to subsidize the Elite Chameleon Aberration Monster mini you make. That customer would buy two wolves and one ECAM, leaving a wolf behind. That wolf's sale was income every part of the resale chain relies upon all the way back to manufacture. Without blind-packed minis, the retailer would get stuck with a handful of wolves they don't want, which will make them disinclined to buy cases of minis for the next batch.

So, yes, the business model does rely on selling people minis they don't want. That's blunt but true. It implies that they're trying to sell crappy minis or ugly minis but it's not really about that. It's more that the sheer numbers of the "common" class minis required are higher than people want of them.

Anguish pretty much has it right (though his numbers are hypothetical, of course): Randomization is about selling a high number of relatively low-cost commons to subsidize the high-cost rares, while giving you an appealing per-mini price on the boosters.

However, we also work pretty hard to make sure that WizKids fills the common slots with minis that you'll actually *want* more of, like skeletons and goblins, and pushes the figures that people will only want one of into the rare slots. Cost considerations don't always allow that to fall exactly the way we want, but it is a goal.

Four, I don't have 440 bucks to blow all willy nilly. It would take me 2 months minimum to save up that much after I'd spent on necessities. Obviously this company didn't get the concept that most gamers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.

I don't mean to sound dismissive, but apply this logic, to say, luxury or specialty cars.

I've love to drive a Tesla Roadster, but I don't have $150,000 to blow all willy nilly. It would take me years to earn that much money, and that's not even accounting for things like food and rent. Obviously Tesla didn't get the concept that most drivers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.

The end result is that I don't buy a Tesla. Instead I drive a Honda: because it serves my needs while also being within my budget. Frankly, I don't think I'm ever going to be in a position where I can buy such an expensive car.

I guess what I'm getting at is that different people value money differently, and that they also value certain items differently. If you cannot justify spending your hard-earned money on these minis, no one is going to make you. We offer non-random Reaper minis, stand-up pawns, and printable paper minis in addition to these, and they all have different costs depending on their needs. Maybe ones of those suits you better.

Piccolo wrote:

Four, I don't have 440 bucks to blow all willy nilly. It would take me 2 months minimum to save up that much after I'd spent on necessities. Obviously this company didn't get the concept that most gamers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.

I guess what I'm getting at is that different people value money differently, and that they also value certain items differently. If you cannot justify spending your hard-earned money on these minis, no one is going to make you. We offer non-random Reaper minis, stand-up pawns, and printable paper minis in addition to these, and they all have different costs depending on their needs. Maybe ones of those suits you better.

Hrm, so according to your analogy, I have a garage filled with all sorts of cars and drive them all based upon my whims? Because I totally have Wizkid minis in addition to Reaper minis and pawns ....

Hrm, so according to your analogy, I have a garage filled with all sorts of cars and drive them all based upon my whims? Because I totally have Wizkid minis in addition to Reaper minis and pawns ....

Yes. Doesn't that make it sound cool?

Simple: I've discovered that players want to target different minis, and can't keep them straight without differentiation.

Plus, randomized minis means you can't get the full set without spending lots and lots of dough, and having minis you can't use as they are duplicates. That is massively greedy.

Finally, having to buy 400 dollars of randomized minis so that I can buy ONE special mini is silly (and is apparently prone to being busted before you ever get it out of the box). At best. It is also massively greedy.

Poor form, kids. Very poor form.

Funnily enough, I didn't have to buy $400 worth of randomised minis to get my Dragon, although if I had of had the money I most certainly would of because I also want so many of the minis from this set (Elementals I'm looking at you...).

The case requirement was eventually removed for the Black Dragon from Heroes & Monsters. I think that they also did the same for the Rune Giant. I don't know how long it took, but be patient and eventually the case requirement will be removed from the Blue Dragon. In the meanwhile, there's always your FLGS and online retailers.

I personally can't afford to buy a case when I know that I won't need most of the miniatures, but singles are available from all of their lines so I can pick the ones that I want. I probably would've bought a case if I hadn't gotten in on Reaper's Bones Kickstarter as a present to myself last year.

The case requirement was eventually removed for the Black Dragon from Heroes & Monsters. I think that they also did the same for the Rune Giant. I don't know how long it took, but be patient and eventually the case requirement will be removed from the Blue Dragon. In the meanwhile, there's always your FLGS and online retailers.

We remove the case requirement when the next major set is released. (That is to say, the Heroes & Monsters case incentive became available as an individual purchase when Rise of the Runelords was released, and the RotR incentive became available when Shattered Star was released, and so on.)

Piccolo wrote:

Four, I don't have 440 bucks to blow all willy nilly. It would take me 2 months minimum to save up that much after I'd spent on necessities. Obviously this company didn't get the concept that most gamers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.

I don't mean to sound dismissive, but apply this logic, to say, luxury or specialty cars.

I've love to drive a Tesla Roadster, but I don't have $150,000 to blow all willy nilly. It would take me years to earn that much money, and that's not even accounting for things like food and rent. Obviously Tesla didn't get the concept that most drivers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.

The end result is that I don't buy a Tesla. Instead I drive a Honda: because it serves my needs while also being within my budget. Frankly, I don't think I'm ever going to be in a position where I can buy such an expensive car.

I guess what I'm getting at is that different people value money differently, and that they also value certain items differently. If you cannot justify spending your hard-earned money on these minis, no one is going to make you. We offer non-random Reaper minis, stand-up pawns, and printable paper minis in addition to these, and they all have different costs depending on their needs. Maybe ones of those suits you better.

Most people can't spend $440 bi annually on gaming stuff but it works for people like me. I have no kids this is my sole hobby I don't drink smoke, gamble, or do "other" recreational activities. So while my income isn't large these are perfectly fine to get twice a year. Plus I do it the smart way SUBSCRIBE it makes it much cheaper. If you really want them then do it the smart way. I understand the minis line isn't financially viable for everyone but there are other options

Any idea if/when this product will be available to those that did not purchase an entire case of miniatures to get the Gargantuan Blue Dragon? I'd be interested in getting this, but with a newborn, a dog that needs surgery, school, and DragonCon coming up, buying an entire case is a little steep for me at the moment.

Tarrintino

We make any remaining case premiums available for general purchase when the following case is released. So when the Skull & Shackles set ships in August, the Shattered Star Gargantuan Blue Dragon will be available for purchase by anyone.

We make any remaining case premiums available for general purchase when the following case is released. So when the Skull & Shackles set ships in August, the Shattered Star Gargantuan Blue Dragon will be available for purchase by anyone.

Thanks for the information, Vic. I'll make plans to add this to my monthly subscription shipment in August.

Vic Wertz wrote:

We make any remaining case premiums available for general purchase when the following case is released. So when the Skull & Shackles set ships in August, the Shattered Star Gargantuan Blue Dragon will be available for purchase by anyone.

Thanks for the information, Vic. I'll make plans to add this to my monthly subscription shipment in August.

Actually you may need to do it with your September Shipment - it won't trigger as for everyone until after the subs start shipping.

I bought mine on eBay, cannot afford the full case as well.
Just received and i too think it is a bit too small for a gargantuan creature,especially if confronted to the gargantuan black dragon from the D&D Iconic series.
It is a great figure of course,marvelous details, but so far all Pathfinder dragon minis are too small.

Just received it and I too think it is a bit too small for a gargantuan creature, especially if compared to the gargantuan black dragon from the D&D Iconic series.

It is a great figure of course, marvelous details, but so far all Pathfinder dragon minis are too small.

I agree that the Pathfinder Huge Black was too small, but I like the Gargantuan Blue. You're comparing it to the D&D Black though and while it might be a touch smaller, the proportions are about the same. Of course the D&D Blue is bigger, but D&D Blues are more predatory muscle, whereas the Pathfinder Blues are sleek and sexy. The Pathfinder Greens are more analogous to the D&D Blues and I expect the Pathfinder Gargantuan Green to be a bit bulkier when it comes out.

considering most of the D&D gargantuan icons would be on the border to Colossal (way too much overlap on some of them for my taste) having ones that actually fit the space they are supposed to is great, especially when experimenting with 3-d terrain that I would have to remove for the icons dragons to be put on the table

So. . . Skull and Shackles is out now (just in time for Razor Coast, might I add!).

Is this beautiful Cadrilkasta figure going to be available for us non-subscribers? ;)

So. . . Skull and Shackles is out now (just in time for Razor Coast, might I add!).

Is this beautiful Cadrilkasta figure going to be available for us non-subscribers? ;)

Orders for Skull & Shackles have just spawned, none of them have actually left the warehouse yet.

I'd suspect that it'll be after Gencon before this gets switched to general release.

I'd suspect that it'll be after Gencon before this gets switched to general release.

You are correct, sir. It's on my to-do list for post-GenCon. :D

I'll just be sitting here quietly until the post-GenCon rush dies out and Ms. Courts can make the switch.

This one will look so awesome when I drop it on my players...

Wow, just..WOW :D

I'll just be sitting here quietly until the post-GenCon rush dies out and Ms. Courts can make the switch.

This one will look so awesome when I drop it on my players...

Check back at 6pm. :D

You are so nice Liz. :-)

Aaand bought. :-)

Thank you very much, ma'am!

I got mine with the store credit I earned for judging at GenCon. She was a pain to put together, but she looks oh so sweet on the shelf on top of my TV. And when my players reach her in Shattered Star, they will get the shock of their lives... My only regret was that I put her together during the convention instead of waiting to get home, but I really wanted to see her in all of her glory. :D

So will this be available for individual purchase?

So will this be available for individual purchase?

It is right now. We hold off until the next set is offered, in this case, Legends of Golarion, and then start selling the case incentive on its own. So go ahead and order the Blue Dragon!

-Lisa

Removed the disclaimer regarding the need to purchase a case to buy this—carry on!

I held off so long on buying this dragon, that I had all but given up when I saw one in a game store while on vacation.
I have to say, it is the COOLEST prepainted gargantuan miniature to date.

While I'm quite fond of the previously made gargantuan blue,black,and white, the detail on this piece is truly remarkable and the size is much more realistic and logical, imo. I lucked out to find one this late in the game and encourage any fan of the bigger dragons to grab this one wherever they can. Reading a post from 2012, and seeing the new gargantuan green dragon, I'm absolutely thrilled to see that Paizo remains solid in their intent to produce all the chromatics in all sizes.

Given that we now have a gargantuan blue and green, a fantastic array of the reds and whites in the evolution sets, as well as the huge black, it looks like this plan will see completion sooner than expected.

Thank you Paizo for fulfilling our dreams of getting the whole spectrum of evil dragons in all their awesome (and appropriately sized) glory. :)

Hey, I'm wondering if this was supposed to come with a miniature box, as the one I ordered a few months ago did not come with a box. Instead it was partially assembled with its unattached wing floating about in the shipping box. Just checking on this.

Inside the printed cardboard box pictured above, there's a clear plastic form holding the unassembled mini.

And then there was one...